Posts by mark taslov
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Seamus, I agree with you re: the Greens in the main, We can talk about the history we can compare the imperialism of the mongolian yuan dynasty with the crusades or the ming's imperialism with the British, or we can talk about right now, the 2008 election, in the 21st century. hence
Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said Beijing was "worried and uneasy about the large-scale military build-up" in the Gulf region.
"I think our position is extremely close to that of France," she said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/23/sprj.irq.china/index.html
as opposed to
Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-17.html
which seems a little back to front imo.
You can bring Taiwan into your argument, but the NZ government doesn't recognize the government of the ROC.
http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Countries-and-Territories/Taiwan.php
So with regards to Taiwan, differentiating the NZ gov policy and the CCP policy in the 21st century, is splitting hairs.
Mark my words seamus The oft repeated idea that China has a history of pacifism irks me too. those 20,000 poorly armed chinese serviceman killed in that brief foray into nam in 78? were totally sold down the river.
But what you're talking about is the rather short sighted phenomena that is 3 year term democracy. and looking back 3/6/9 years we're not seeing much imperialistic expansion from the CCP under the current admin. What we hae seen is 9% annual growth, the same kind of growth that Key is teasing NZ voters with today.
I've never bought any petrol, so it's not really my business, but the situation as seems to work something like this, new announcement of attack in iraq=immediate hike in petrol prices. That's danger money and not a situation anyone should be encouraging.
simplified it seems the choices are simple, you could either encourage democracy and fair representation or not, for whatever reasons, whether you agree or disagree, if you don't, then you're no less nationalistic or xenophobic than those you chastise,
the chinese know better than most that the fastest way to a person's heart is cold cash, hence the recent election in taiwan of a rather pro PR china president.
so either by way of the front door or the back door, the chinese powers that can have and will find ways to influence the New Zealand Government and in my way of thinking i'm happier there is a candidate who has been voted in singularly because of their ties to the PRC mainly for accountability and transparency.
And more to the point it's not like legislation like the suppression of terrorism act and the electoral finance act don't already smell like a shift in democratic principles towards the totalitarianism and censored politicizing of the CCP. So how did that happen?
i want to see it in writing.this
the basic Chinese xenophobia that sees ripping off foreigners as patriotism
is exactly the kind of crying over spoilt milk that must be echoing around the fonterra boardrooms and the only significant way to overcome this hurdle and avoid being cheated in future is to come to terms with and educate ourselves about the chinese dao, so we can actually win a hand here and there, because it's not going to go away anytime soon. what could we learn from them?
well, as you mentioned seamus
The Chinese piss all over us in terms of wind power. Seen the huge wind farms out in Xinjiang? They are about to become a major force in solar panels (in fact they will no doubt be the ones who make solar panels an economic technology).
It's embarrassing. Like every other nation in the world we are selling out our principles in the hope of making a buck.
i think seamus, integrity is a many sided coin. you are going to have to sell your principles to someone in this world so you might as well get a good price for them.
re: Sam on Jamil, yeah, i've been paranoid about fonterra/NZ connection of late, but what you're saying seems a far more accurate representation of word i hear on the street. fonterra? New zealand? but that was last month.
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Your reference to National is silly. I doubt many National voters are motivated primarily by the fact that National leans closer to the USA than Labor does. Loyalty to the USA is just one among numerous features of National Party policy. In any case, Labor is not exactly an enemy of the USA.
seamus, excuse me here if i'm dwelling on this, your answer here seems typically illustrative of the binary perception people are bought into in the modern two party (progressive) democracy. It's not just labour and nat out there, and i agree that labour aren't particularly hardline about distancing themselves from the war machine that brought terrorism to its doorstep. but the recent quips over the iraq war, do highlight the distinction.
the fact is that both of them still do lean close to the states or previously mother england
and those places are the ones starting wars (in recent history).
which evidently incites terrorism on the homefront
so i fail to see how favoring parties that support that kind of trashy foreign policy is any worse than supporting candidates who support china with it's far more passive foreign policy. and dare i say it, not invading countries is just one among numerous features of CCP policy.for my own 19 cents and despite Winston, i don't think the Chinese new zealanders are gonna take over new zealand. having a member who is dedicated to developing relations/trade with china seems potentially more lucrative than a minister of the arts(not dissing the arts minister, just looking at what is gonna bring real money and opportunity into the country) so despite your misgivings seamus, the minister of china whether formally acknowledged or not could be one of the greatest political advancements in NZ political history.
and streuth dude, it's not like they're aussies
this MP could be a huge asset in developing relations between our two nations, and it's not like keeping prisoners jailed longer or providing tax cuts is going to bring any fresh cash into the homestead.i agree with what jamil and chris say regarding exploring the avenues. Jamil mentions the arts; there's an Australia and New Zealand shop in Jian wai Soho, where NZ products are relatively poorly represented, apart from a bit of wine and honey. on the top floor they're selling aboriginal paintings for 100,000rmb a pop. no NZ art there. That's a lot of money for relatively unknown names.
another potential avenue is education, which the chinese are totally balls at, hence the huge number of overseas students, with international schools cleaning up, thinking Massey and other multibranch institutions or private schools with the capital.
Mainly it is kind of rubbish when the thing your country is most famous for is the beautiful scenery on pirated DVDs.
but, met some boys from Otara last year over here performing Maori dance, not sure how much they were making, but someone was obviously doing ok out of it.
that cream has got to make it back home.
or the inroads are fruitless*
*see fonterra or what happened to steinlager here. -
surely decreases the attractiveness of opening an internet cafe. could be interesting if the 'pirates' (read people who wanna watch stuff they've been force fed advertising and promos for), decide do all their biz on public/insitutional computers. Get your school taken offline!
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this was passed and published over 6 months ago...why is it an issue now?
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Correct me if i'm wrong Seamus, but are you saying Chinese NZers who see supporting China as the most important thing they can do with their vote in NZ as less justified than New Zealand New Zealanders who see supporting China as the most important thing they can do with their vote?
For me, as far as i can recall, a vote for National is basically a vote for loyalty to the USA.
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i'm always fairly proud of our ability to make that separation sam, though i sometimes feel our somewhat apolitical patriotic spirit leaves new zealand a little lacking in nationalist cohesion that could make the place a little merrier (sounds weird but it's too difficult for me have a decent go at backing up), having said that, i'm continually reminded of how nz(western)'s liberal globalism in this big old world is somewhat ahead of it's time, as are our pacifist tendencies...
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question i have is why has new zealand china friendship society website been blocked in china for the last two years. what is written on this website?
www.nzchinasociety.org.nz
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true seamus, bit of a freudian there, didn't realise that was wu gui de gui thought it was yang gui zi de gui, hei was a spelling mistake hence (seaghosts) often make that mistake probably based on my disdain for all similarly xenophobic terms, but i'm sure the point (without mentioning da bi zi 'big nose') was made re: the xenophobia (rampant), thanks for fixing those up.
fortunately despite my spelling I'm semi aware of the definition of the term hai gui, hence not referring to 'chinese new zealanders' but to chinese. a substantial number of whom are are students geared to inevitably return as 20 something middle class... just as when we say new zealand voted in a national government we don't mean all new zealanders voted for them. and i'd counter from stats that almost all chinese who leave china return eventually, and while no one's calling them hai gui while they're in new zealand, they are all potentially going to face the hai gui label, if not potential laowai depending who they marry and what their children look like. None of this taking into account the racism dealt to children of mixed marriages born and raised here.
thanks for the heads up,
and re: hei gui being impolite, i'd have to have to go a little further and press that it's downright racist, along the lines of the chinese paying black people and yellow people less than white people.based on skin colours. eg i had a colleague 50+, parents from guangdong, born and raised in Auckland, came to China to work, was paid 80% my salary for the trouble of not being white.
"According to Article 5 of the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China: "Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality".
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after running a survey of thirty chinese around the neighbourhood, the overwhelming consensus is that we are not all chinese and never will be, the majority seemed adamant that we are laowai 'old outsiders' and the Chinese in new zealand right now are heigui, 'sea ghosts'.
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agreed simon, sorry chris waugh, early morning had me reading chris as james...
stephen
' they' isn't the young urban middle class, it's the Chinese, most of whom are over 30.
23% over 50,47% 20-50:
of which the majority are pre one child policy, and probably able to recall some degree of poverty,
http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Research/LUC/ChinaFood/data/pop/pop_7.htm
so i'd say a fairly large percentage can remember the cultural revolution first hand, a larger percentage still, can remember the poverty of the 70s and a large proportion recall the food queues and meatless winters into the early eighties.
that's why they all (generalization) save their cash. it's not about MTV china, these young urban middleclass, they work like a motherf@cker, unpaid overtime, through holidays etc, this easy life you confer on them doesn't quite meet their expectations.
they're families are very very close close, they meet at festivals, and the youf are regularly told stories of the bad days by oldies who are remarkably loyal to the establishment despite the hells they lived through,
more to your point is;
so i don't think the 20-something people with money now can remember even Tiananmen, let alone the worse stuff before that.
some can/ some can't, much the same as 20-something people anywhere can remember events prior to their birth, but i don't see 20 something people as any kind of cornerstone in this discussion, as the 20 something chinese are firmly under the thumb of their elders.
as a pre 40 something kiwi, are you bereft of cultural memory before a certain age, is the history prior to your birth a void? civil rights movement? feminist movement? the springbok tour? think big? the rainbow warrior? parihaka? this stuff could be etched in your memory whether you were there or not,
though i'm sure like myself you were fortunate to bare the 'impartiality' of a western education system.but it's beside the point, Jamil paints the chinese as a rabble who will hit the kill as switch soon as they reach that 5% threshhold.
And you,
well what you're saying is head of the PLA Hu Jin Tao may give orders to his army to overthrow or allow the overthrow of the CCP of which he is the chairman,or allow the PLA not do their damndest to protect that party from the potential revolutionary dangers posed a gunless nation of 5% threshold hooligans.gunless people pose little threat
and more to the point
why would they revolt
when they can watch the news
see the west's current financial woes
and observe their coming woes primarily as a result in drops to exports caused on the whole by bad western economic management.surely that'd be a time to say "thank you CCP, we know shit is hard globally but you've done a pretty good job so far buffering us from that as best you could. keep it up"
i know i go on.