Up Front by Emma Hart

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Up Front: You People and Your Quaint Little Categories

117 Responses

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  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    I know what you mean.

    I don't. Is that suggesting that any kinky fascinated curiosity however arrived at, does not a good relationship make?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    I've got a sort of half-formed thought here that straight people who feel an attraction for gay or bi people may actually be expressing a small amount of latent bisexuality themselves in a way that feels safe to them. So for a woman who is not quite bi enough to seek out a relationship with another woman might find a guy who is a little towards the feminine end of the spectrum might be just the ticket.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    might be just the ticket.

    I don't see what others find reasons for personal choice as anything I need to categorize but, if one has a self awareness of equality, surely all types would fall into an interest of/from person and not gender whatever. Just as PAS seems to have with it's posters rather than anything else first. Genuine curiosity?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    It might be just like being attracted to a good singing voice.

    Agreed. And then we make things difficult by trying to impose categories about who sings.

    For instance, stereotyping all things emotional as "feminine" is not helpful for any of us. Robert Bly wrote of "a tremendous depth of feeling in the masculine". It's part of being human, like singing is.

    Physical differences undoubtedly influence attraction for most of us, but there's tremendous variation within genders even in that dimension.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • kmont,

    Wow, went off to buy veggies and came back to some really interesting stuff.

    Hey Steven, I don't think you were being oversensitive at all, I just let half formed thoughts out of my head and on to the internet ;-) What I originally typed did sound kind of aggressive and I kind of suspected that what you had in mind was something awesome like your "extra sense of person-hood my bisexual partner expressed" comment which was truly very cool.

    Isabel, I tend to agree with your half-formed thought and think you are brave for suggesting it.

    I don't see what others find reasons for personal choice as anything I need to categorize but, if one has a self awareness of equality surely all types would fall into an interest of/from person and not gender whatever.

    This is pretty much what I think.

    To derail slightly, this would be MUCH more likely to be generated by the Depraved Bisexual trope in mainstream movies and tv than by porn.

    Yes, this is what I was getting at.

    Right must head off into the day even though this thread is taking a turn for the interesting.....

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • kmont,

    Nah, not at all. I had a friend who was going out with a very butch lady and I asked her about what the attraction was, she said "I find her very feminine".
    So your logic makes sense to me.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Heh, I think part of the problem we're all having communicating with each other here is the language not keeping up. Words like 'feminine' and 'kinky' can carry some very heavy negative connotations, but we don't really have anything sufficient to replace them with.

    I'd love to be able to shuck off all the labels and categories, but I don't believe it's safe to even attempt this while some of those groups are still being actively discriminated against. When we get to Captain Jack's ideal future, then we can let go of our quaint little categories.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    Yes but, Captain jack is code for heroin.

    Oh, this song is well weird to listen to these days:

    Captain Jack will get you high tonight
    And take you to your special island
    Captain Jack will get you by tonight
    Just a little push, and you'll be smilin'

    Quite.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    It's impressive. Not sure how we differently go from there to sexy, but I'm sure there are many, many ways.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    I shall dye my hair now.

    Hair? Where?That could be sexy :)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Once a punk..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Campbell,

    I've always liked Ani DiFranco's take on 'quaint little categories':

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2622 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    Once a punk..

    Right I'm shoving quaint little categories in the bin, but you knew that. I like punk as my reference then and now on.I will go with that without discrimination.:)

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock,

    Given that I can't see any reason why people couldn't be attracted to 'bisexuals'.

    OK, here's a half-baked personal theory that I'll put out there to test the water:

    No-one (or very few people) are absolutely, positively 100% at one end of the sexuality spectrum - 'people are attracted to people'.

    But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

    In a relationship, or just sex, most straight guys* want to hook up with a woman who is open and uninhibited about sex - swinging from the light tends to be a lot more fun than lights off all the time, if you see what I mean.


    Plus which, confidence is damn sexy. So a woman who is sexually confident enough to have explored that side of herself (even if it was 'just the once at art school') is going to be a pretty attractive prospect to most guys.

    *speaking in my offical capacity as spokesperson for 'most straight guys'.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • webweaver,

    No-one (or very few people) are absolutely, positively 100% at one end of the sexuality spectrum - 'people are attracted to people'.

    But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

    *nodding head in utter agreement*

    I absolutely agree. Seems to me that sexuality is a continuum from 100% straight at one end to 100% gay at the other. Most people are somewhere between the two. People are scattered all the way along this spectrum from one end to the other, but as you say, Rich, I think many people who could be bi, choose not to explore that potential for whatever reason.

    I'd also like to mention the fact that there are some guys who find the idea of going out with a bi woman rather exciting, I think because they can fantasise about her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 332 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    But most people won't explore the whole range of their sexual 'being' (for want of a better word). Societal expectations/norms, repression, etc.

    Or they are comfortable/satisfied where they went in the first place and even if they are up to n.o 42 in the numbers game, still satisfied?
    * speaking in my official capacity as 'Straight happy chick with an awesome man at my side'

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    I'd also like to mention the fact that there are some guys who find the idea of going out with a bi woman rather exciting, I think because they can fantasise about her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

    "[A]t the same time," being, perhaps, the operative phrase.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    Gotta agree with you there Rich, sounds sound.

    her being with another woman at the same time as being able to shag her themselves.

    I have a latino (necessary info) buddy from Phoenix who's 12 year marriage was in part based on doing quite a bit of that, unfortunately the extra curricular activity eventually drove them apart....the guy was a little racy for me but he had some good tips..one of which I feel compelled to share at this juncture, when performing cunning linguisitcs, letting the tongue write the letters of the alphabet....

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Isabel Hitchings,

    Words like 'feminine' and 'kinky' can carry some very heavy negative connotations, but we don't really have anything sufficient to replace them with.

    Oh yeah. I struggled with my wording above for ages and, in the end, had to rely on the intelligence and good-will of PAS readers to understand my view without taking undue offence.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2007 • 719 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    . . . when performing cunning linguisitcs, letting the tongue write the letters of the alphabet....

    What, no actual sentences? "Dear Sir/Madam . . ."

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    What, no actual sentences?

    Ha, depends how cunning...generally as i understand it, a systematic method of finding which letters work; being multilingual opens up universes....

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov,

    a strange eerie silence followed...

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca,

    ;) What letter are you on?

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart,

    So a woman who is sexually confident enough to have explored that side of herself (even if it was 'just the once at art school') is going to be a pretty attractive prospect to most guys.

    While I'm not disagreeing with this as a generalisation about Out Bis, when you break down by sexuality, the only group with a higher suicide rate than bisexuals is transsexuals. We kill ourselves and suffer from depression at a higher rate than even gays and lesbians.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    Kinsey talked about the sexuality spectrum, and I'm not sure if it was him or someone else who hypothesied that there is nobody at either extreme end of the spectrum. I would tend to agree with that. Even if one does not act on one's attraction to the same sex, I would say that most people who identify as heterosexual have at some time in their lives felt that attraction.Just as there are many people out there who identify as gay who have had relationships, sexual and nonplatonic love relationships, with the opposite sex.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

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