Glad to hear I'm not the only one to believe this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deQuFc3BP74

Or worse, using language policing as a means to…

However, focusing on intention only gets you so far when it's what people and organisations say and do that have an impact. Especially for influential parties like broadcasters and public agencies, changing behaviour regardless…

to a woman with a hammer..

When I reflect on it, I've spent ten years working to get a few words into the world in a particular way, so the right thinking and actions can follow.

Like having to tell a Titanic captain that ice can be…

I get what you’re saying. But I do think language (particularly exclusive/inclusive language) makes a difference to how we perceive and act in the world.

Instead of being neutral agents transparently revealing the meaning we want to communicate, words carry…

Chinese almost gets there with all 3rd person pronouns being [ETA: standard Mandarin pronunciations] tā, tāmen when it is desirable or necessary to note the plural (not compulsory), and tāde for possessive, and there’s no masculine/feminine forms for classes of people like in say,…

I prefer my hedonism deep, and with candy scented bubbles. Still, it’s really nice that Gordon does like women – as long as they behave themselves. I’m just hoping he’s going to pop up in a couple of months and reveal it’s all…

See, I'd reply sneeringly to that but I'm so busy with my shallow hedonism.

Women are a disappointment, although he admired them in 1976 "and still do, particularly older women. I was a great fan of the feminist movement."

Feminism was in full swing in 1976, but…

*actually, they are many things! Unfortunately I'm too tired to write a better sentence.

You lot might enjoy this Wikipedia article.

I blame the churches and their use of 'thou' to refer to God. Seems somehow odd to be referring to the Deity so informally when said Deity can smite at any given moment...

Language is basically awesome.

No argument from me there.

Yes, but then we shifted 'you' to do double duty. And as a result, people find 'thou' really formal, when it was the informal. Language is basically awesome.

Really? Never struck me that way – unless the person using it feels like they shouldn't be, perhaps.

noice

Singular they actually has a much longer, more illustrious pedigree than the prescriptivists would have us believe. Which is not to argue against coining new words, just to remind us that on this and quite…

Yes. It was after reading TLHOD, and realising I was more than a bit androgynous, that I invented a gender-neutral set of pronouns. In English, 'it' doesnt work, and 'she' and 'he' are way too loaded.

It's interesting too, because…

t-shirt?

Yes, one of the characters makes a stage play which violates their strongest taboo, the mingling of people from the two planets, in which an Urrasti comes to Anarres and behaves like a "propertarian", even trying to procure sex for money (which…

ETA: Also, Comic Sans.

Yes.
The thing about Utopias is the lack of wriggle room. As we are all different and have individual ideals one persons fish is another persons cabbage as it were. This also applies to the level of desire, it…

That would be Max, who, as it turns out, is not averse to the odd drink. Nor the even ones...

Robosexuality is a choice. No one is just "built that way," no matter what Lady Goto10 sings. The sooner the robodomites stop playing with each others' dipswitches, toggles, and ports and accept the programming of Robot Jesus, the sooner they will…

Sure – becuase as the subtitle of The Dispossessed reminds us all utopias with real people in them are ambiguous ones. You can’t take…

Obviously this was a work of fiction, but it's an interesting thought experiment, well worth a read. I came away from reading it thinking "yes, there's some good and bad things about utopias, aren't there?". It's actually pretty hard to conceptualize being attracted to something that you aren't attracted…

I think we could probably add a few more. We need more words, not fewer!

This is probably my only real concern about laying down what a sexual utopia would be like, wherein shame isn't so deeply built in at a social level. One society that is, by accounts, one of…

it's not called a *drive* for nothing

I appreciate that you said that "the desire would disappear," rather than that sex would disappear, and it's true that there always has been a lot of sex…

Like, because all the phrasing you used was general, and the lack of the word "I"?

On an individual level, I've already addressed this point twice, once in the original post, so I'm just going to…

I knew there was something funny going on.

Um, while naughtiness can add a certain frisson, there's also the fact that sex is considerably more fun than shaking hands. If not, you're doing it wrong.

Lolwut? That maybe how your boat floats, Steve, but it's a bit presumptuous of you to speak for everyone.

As long as they get the water-proofing right...

Yes Steve, before sex was taboo nobody had any. That's why we're extinct.

Car magazines and Cookery books,
Architectural Journals and picture hooks…
Whatever your heart desires.
And there’s the point, desire.
If sex became as socially acceptable as shaking hands then the desire would disappear, it is…

Or Cherry 2000?

There is a tendency, considered highly rational, to reason from a narrow set of interests, say survival and procreation, which are supposed to govern our lives, and then to treat everything that does not fit this model…

I believe that sex represents more than just the creation of children.

I believe it is an enjoyable, healthy and a profound part of the human experience.

I also believe that the responsible use of birth control is an essential component of…

Joycelyn Elders had it right. The only thing she was guilty of was being a little too honest.

About the only thing that my school sex ed (delivered two years after I started having sex) got right was this.…

And Second, I would like to put forth the idea that sex ed communicates that A) masturbation is fun and will not cause your naughty bits to fall…

Rough trade chat?

Yeah this isn't Trade chat! Next you'll be suggesting Chuck Norris jokes.

by making it about sex

The thing about D/s play, and Clarisse Thorn has written on this recently, is that it's trust-based. And every scene or session that goes…

Not sure how anyone would extrapolate into a belief that I’d put…

Though surprisingly, no-one's mentioned anal sex yet.

Whoops.

There is only one possible response to that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voB5ZknmNRw

And that video just lays out something everyone…

I'm going to info-dump a bit now. This is the kink research aggregation site I was supposed to dig up for Roger yesterday. And this youtube clip is largely stuff I've kind of said,…

:-)
Slayage with a smile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-t0ko4bbKw

Exactly. I want behaviours to be as legitimate as tendencies.

All I'll say to that is it's all fun and games until the sex-bots get religion and nukes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duGJwBWEljM&feature=related

A lot of people would say, but romance is what women want, they like relationships. It’s men who like sex.

Yes, this attitude makes me cross, too.

And in other news, look forward to…

And as others have pointed out with some asperity, if "mommy porn" (i.e. "OMFG, mothers lady-wank too!") is…

shaken, not stirred

Which, of course, is the exact opposite of the CEO myth. This is: people take the same…

Or maybe they just want to restore some balance in their…

Exactly! While the "born this way" idea has been a focus for some, who cares whether it's an inclination, an orientation, a predilection or just a whim? No-one should be telling…

I do like that column. It makes sense to me that what is an orientation for some…

It doesn't seem to be anything other than anecdotal evidence plus a vague plausibility argument, but at least this…

I linked to this repost of a Clarisse Thorn column on Twitter the other day, about whether BDSM is an orientation…

I think this kind of research, if it were still…

There is research, Roger. I'm about to run out the door and it'll take me a wee while to find it again, but there is a BUNCH of 'find me a cause' research about BDSM, and all of it says "Um, nope, it's not…

I talked about power dynamics in my first BDSM column. On an individual level? It varies from one individual to another. The only one I can really speak for is me. And that's a bit personal.

Yes it is. Also, I hear poor people are lazy.

Not saying I agree, but isn't that routinely trotted out to explain masochistic CEOs/politicians?

One factor that's absolutely culturally mediated…

Honestly, there's so much wrong in Roiphe's argument that I don't really know where to start – perhaps with the idea that someone's sexual tastes re: top/bottom reflect their power position in other aspects…

Still thinking a lot about exploitation as a result.

Not a good example. He always made certain he appeared taller than he actually was.

There are some cultures where the dominant group was short and hence shorter men were desirable.

But the problem is that as you improve diet and hence health,…

Heh, you don't get much of that at an Alexa performance. Something about the edged weapons she is frequently wielding draw people's minds back to pointed messages. She loves to tear at the boundaries of performance. I remember one show spilling outdoors because…

I for one am all for sparkle-pony-ness! In my utopia people have plenty of fun and silliness along with the equality and being kind to each other.

Does it ever. Alexa is highly original and in my opinion, she is doing her best work right now. She takes advantage of everything that the stage has over passive entertainment, bringing interactivity, cognitive challenge, dialogue,…

not that there's anything wrong with that.

Oh hell yeah, though I do think it has…

I think it's essential.

There are times when we enjoy sharping our personhood against someone hard and unyielding, maybe someone mean or self-involved, we want to learn something about limits and ourselves. How much we can take. Who we are. Who we are not.

You can have connection without…

bandname

**It certainly is amongst bonobo! But then, bonobo – unlike their chimpanzee relatives- use sex/sexual pleasure to heal animosities in their societies. Or just to comfort one another. It -in all it's awesome variety-is not just for procreative or dominance purposes.

I…

No, I was careful. I really meant people can do whatever they want within the law, which leaves an enormously wide number of possibilities. That doesn't mean they will do it. They may never try hard enough, or be lucky enough (or…

Absolutely this.
I am a very…

What was fascinating was how much gravity and hair existed back then. Those women were just as, if not…

Perhaps I need to be a little more specific then. How about this:

When women talk about their own experiences, bodies and sexuality on-line, make the default assumption they're speaking in good faith.

no-one’s desires and…

together.

Collective political action doesn't just happen. It happens because individuals work to make it happen. In this field, it happens because individuals put themselves at significant social and emotional risk to make it happen.

Have shorter men been attractive in some cultures?

Certainly men…

Collective political action. Conversation like this.

Have shorter men been attractive in some cultures?

I say that like it's a separate thing.

Individual decisions don't magically create social change.

What does create social change, if not individual decisions?

You say that like it's a bad thing. :)

Individual decisions don't magically create social change. I'd prefer a utopia with some chance of success.

Height and curviness, at least, have gone in and out of fashion over the centuries. Just like body hair has – for men and women – over the last few decades. But there's…

agreed

F'r'instance?

Actually, I don't make the default assumption that anyone knows their own fucking minds.

I don't follow the precepts of any of the great psychological dead-ends of the 20th Century (Freudianism, behaviourism, Marxism). I'm also unconvinced by either the "just…

We all are, for each other. What I demand for myself I give to other people.

Yes, but who's making the space, and how? I'm hearing a lot of 'me' here.

Me too! I've always wanted to be a boat captain.

Of course I do. Everyone is afflicted by it. I haven't lived out every fantasy I've ever had, nor done everything I would ever like to. Not only because I haven't had the opportunity, and because many of them are actually impossible,…

Totally agree, Tom. As Sopranos…

The answer to this is the same as to Max's concern about young men only having seen waxed vulvas, in porn. It's…

For me, it absolutely can. Which perhaps is being all 'libertarian', but actually I'm calling bullshit on that, because part of living together collectively is accepting that our individual experiences are different, and making space for that.

But yeah, I find the idea…

Did you just call me libertarian? Dude.

But, yeah, I dunno. I tend to think that there's as many kinks and desires as there are people. It's in the finding people that share them that…

I agree with Emma that the…

Can 'erotic' be about more than sex?

Which is where, and I am not a parent, but education and communication come in, right. And teaching that "what you want…

Complicated situation: I had a conversation with a woman…

Yeah. And how is that different to telling women not to wear short skirts (which she does, anyway)?

As far as I can tell, if you're willing…

You are wonderful, Craig. :-)

And to take a slight tangent, when…

This was the gist of my argument. It tends to extend to not just telling women what they're allowed to do with their pubes, but guilt-tripping those who don't obey.

I'm more interested in the sheer craft of it all – because having heffalumped my way though a dance class or two as a child I know how…

But that’s kind of what I was reacting against. The idea that dancing is an analogy or substitute for sex. Sure, it can be sexy, but I danced with a lot…

And that is her exact argument, and she's not wrong, that the thought…

This. So much. But not as much as "Fifty Shades of Grey is an embarrassing piece of shit and the sooner people stop talking about it the better."

But they don't, you get that, right Ben? The law is probably the least influential factor in people's sexual decisions.

But I'm not the most shy, retiring…

Perhaps, but can I suggest a guideline for a sex-poz utopia? (And I mean this as a general comment with a side of owning my own penis-privilege, not a bitch-slam on you, Tom.)

__When women talk…

And a corollary of that Islander might agree with: If you're NOT interested in sex, that doesn't mean you're somehow broken or a frigid God-bothering prude or must have been sexually abused. Seriously.…

There's a common argument that says something like "Pre-pubescent girls have no pubic hair, so removing it from an adult woman makes her look like a child. Ergo, the result is, at best, to treat women like children, and at worst, a…

I'm with Megan on this one: a lot of what Caitlin Moran says is…

Quite, and I know this term raised all kinds of hackles but you know…

Word. I was going to make that point in the original point, but I had Said Enough. "but you have some bloke who’s not listening to what you’re saying, he’s just looking at your legs." Why…

It worth noting that the time you are a teenager is most likely the time your body is the most wonderful. Nothing much hurts, various bits hang where they ought to. So why can't we…

She's not disturbing. She's kind of awesome. (Funny, smart, talented, etc, etc.)

She doesn't mind porn. She thinks the porn industry is problematic – as does anyone with a brain. However. She says things like this:

Brazilians (the wax jobs,…

Yeah, don't do that. I did it once, and got hate mail.

When you come visit my mother and her wee dog – and me – we will welcome you all!

Nau mai, hoki mai! n/n/Keri

+1000

Bastards

I do know what you mean: the sheer joy of movement can add…

I loved Latin. I love dancing – I'd almost forgotten how much. It's…

You say that like it's a bad thing...

But ... didn't you know that sex is degrading unless the couple are looking lovingly into each other's eyes? Although that can be difficult if…

Exactly!
With- for some- subliminal moments. For many – real unambiguous joy-
there are major human/ major pleasures which are not actually sexual in origin but which can be deeply associated with sexual pleasures.

I've never done it (I suspect I'd lack the skill), but like a few of us here, I've experienced the sheer, transcendent joy of a Friday night dancefloor.

+1

I did a lot of Latin Dance for…

Taste relies on inclination – so yes, there is material to suit all tastes, including none.

kittens?

My mother, an actual fan of the music (at least until 'they went all strange and dreary', in her words, after 1965)…

Emma carefully made sure asexualism was mentioned – for which I deeply thank her- but obviously there is no pornography around that is going whet an asexual's
appetite-

o, foood? Did someone just…

No! All the sex must be nice, and...

Dammit, that was actually how far I could get into that whole "happy spiritual loving" thing before I was…

I see that you've already covered some aspects of this, but I'll add my piece anyway. A lot of good sex involves laughter, playfulness and affection, and when…

no stranger to shagging since.

Right, here we go.

We only get the sublimely produced porn. All we care about is that all participants are participating freely, in safe conditions. There are no questions of content once consent issues are settled.

And... I…

Ok I should clear up any idea…