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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Up Front: The Up Front Guide to Plebs</title>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=358115#post358115</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=358115#post358115</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						New Matilda has a better article: <a href="https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/19/chaos-in-canberra-week-in-politics/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://newmatilda.com/2016/03/19/chaos-in-canberra-week-in-politics/</a>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 20 Mar 2016 19:28:45 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=358114#post358114</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=358114#post358114</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/18/turnbull-government-unveils-dramatic-changes-to-safe-schools-program" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/18/turnbull-government-unveils-dramatic-changes-to-safe-schools-program</a></p><p>Turns out I was insufficiently pessimistic about the Liberals liberal-ness. They've bullied the education minister into wrecking the program.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:45:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357895#post357895</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357895#post357895</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						No, I'm saying they can cancel your *regular* hours. It's called precarious employment and it's what low-wage retail and fast food workers in the USA manage with on the reg. I find the idea that case law governs how it works for low status and wage employees a bit... weird?…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 19:24:22 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sister Mary Gearchange</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357894#post357894</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357894#post357894</guid>
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						<p>I thought we could take it as read that this was a very general discussion.  :)</p><p>Case law defines 'personal activities" as those preventing the employee from answering a call in within whatever time frame the contract may require.  The fact of doing, say, your washing doesn't count, for example.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 19:12:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357893#post357893</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357893#post357893</guid>
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						I take issue with that characterisation of US labour regulations. The US Dept of Labor has a pretty strict definition of "on call" and if the employee is able to do "personal activities" while waiting to be called in to work then the "on call" pay provision doesn't apply. Additionally…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:48:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sister Mary Gearchange</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357884#post357884</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357884#post357884</guid>
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						<p>>>Why risk an unfair dismissal case when you can zero-hour someone or just say “fired for not being straight enough”.<<</p><p>Zero hour contracts are unlawful in most of the US.  You /can/ have 'on call' contracts, but most states (only 4 exceptions, IIRC) require the employee to be paid for all time while on call, albeit usually at a reduced rate of 50-75%.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:04:36 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sister Mary Gearchange</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357883#post357883</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357883#post357883</guid>
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						<p>>>This 'order of things' has boggled me a bit with the US as well: there are still thirty-odd states where you can be legally fired from your job for your sexuality or gender identity. And yes, because these aren't specifically protected grounds in the Constitution.<<</p><p>You're right on the first part, but wrong on the second.  Employment in the US is almost universally 'at will' employment:  you can be fired for any reason or no reason so long as it isn't a protected category under federal or state law.  The US Constitution provides no protections within employment at all so it doesn't bear referencing.  All protection is within employment, civil rights, and to small degree, case laws.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:02:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357871#post357871</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357871#post357871</guid>
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						<p><q>boggled me a bit with the US as well: there are still thirty-odd states where you can be legally fired from your job for your sexuality or gender identity</q></p><p>Also, "employer assumptions about your sexuality". While you could in theory be fired for being straight, in practice people are fired…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:17:54 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357870#post357870</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357870#post357870</guid>
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						<p><q>My understanding of the current law in Australia is that if one spouse transitions, the couple has to divorce.</q></p><p>That link again: <a href="http://www.gendercentre.org.au/resources/polare-archive/archived-articles/the-marriage-amendment-act.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.gendercentre.org.au/resources/polare-archive/archived-articles/the-marriage-amendment-act.htm</a></p><p>The law does not directly require it, but in the past it was "to get you change recognised you have to comply with our demands, and those…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:08:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357852#post357852</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357852#post357852</guid>
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						<p>On other news, <a href="http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/3/article_18065.php" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Pricewaterhouse Cooper</a> is now saying the real cost of the plebiscite will be more like $500m. </p><p><q>PwC economics and policy partner Jeremy Thorpe notes the impact a stand-alone plebiscite would have on the LGBTI community saying; "What we find is the cost to the LGBTI community are…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:24:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357850#post357850</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357850#post357850</guid>
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						<p><q>To be honest, I think this boils down simply to the fact there is no federal human rights/anti-discrimination legislation for queers in Australia. If I go to rent a house in the Northern Territory, I can simply be denied just because I’m a big old dyke.</q></p><p>This 'order of things'…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:16:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sister Mary Gearchange</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357841#post357841</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357841#post357841</guid>
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						>>Something I discovered today. In England, adultery is grounds for divorce if you’re married, but not for dissolution if you’re in a civil partnership. But if you’re in a same-sex marriage, you can only divorce your partner for adultery if they sleep with someone of the opposite sex. So if…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:44:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sister Mary Gearchange</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357840#post357840</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357840#post357840</guid>
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						<p>>>Well, up to a point. I think we might want to be very careful to nuance that where the "T" in LGBT is concerned. ALL trans people deserve equal access to marriage (and civil unions), full stop and period.<<</p><p>I'm of the opinion that that is looking at it from the wrong direction in so far as it puts the focus on the subject within the institution, not the institution.  It is buying into the framing of the argument by the religious that makes it an argument in the first place.</p><p>Those within (or without) are too diverse to address in law IMO.  Putting aside even the low end stuff of minor cock ups in implementation in law (cf. England, mentioned elsewhere) there will always be someone feeling left out, or actually being left out by trying to account for all possible options.</p><p>IMO the state should be accommodating the religious and non-religious only because that is the basis of objection in the first place: "marriage" can be a religious function performed however a particular religion prefers and with no legal standing as far as the State is concerned, and "civil union" can be the State recognised partnership between freely consenting &amp; informed adults (with the underlying assumption being that the State promoting stable partnerships between said individuals/groups being a socially good thing (which I have some doubts about, personally)) which has weight and status and consequence within the law. Put "marriage" on the same level as "confirmation" is for, say Catholics.  Reserve "civil union" for the State.  Differentiate it linguistically and society will (eventually) follow.  It also serves to undercut the religious objections and removes the State from the religious moral argument &ndash; the only argument with any weight and the one the State shouldn't have any opinion on.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:31:49 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>TracyMac</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357830#post357830</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357830#post357830</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>To be honest, I think this boils down simply to the fact there is no federal human rights/anti-discrimination legislation for queers in Australia. If I go to rent a house in the Northern Territory, I can simply be denied just because I'm a big old dyke. </p><p>We did it the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2016 02:15:30 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357828#post357828</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357828#post357828</guid>
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						<q>Something I discovered today. In England, adultery is grounds for divorce if you're married, but not for dissolution if you're in a civil partnership. But if you're in a same-sex marriage, you can only divorce your partner for adultery if they sleep with someone of the opposite sex. So if…</q>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:44:00 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Hebe</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357825#post357825</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357825#post357825</guid>
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						<q>Something I discovered today. In England, adultery is grounds for divorce if you're married, but not for dissolution if you're in a civil partnership. But if you're in a same-sex marriage, you can only divorce your partner for adultery if they sleep with someone of the opposite sex. So if…</q>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:11:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357802#post357802</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357802#post357802</guid>
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						<p><q>Once it's explicitly lawful to be married to the same person after transition, hopefully that won't happen any more. (AFAIK it was never illegal to stay married, you just couldn't get married, but that is pure speculation... and it's actually much stupider than that)</q></p><p>One interesting thing that I realised…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:37:28 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357743#post357743</link>
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						<p><q>I have no idea how this plays out for trans and intersex people.</q></p><p>Almost certainly they are legally exactly one of (male/female) so the law will ignore all the subtlety and use the rules they have. But the adultery law seems weird on all counts, so who knows.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2016 16:07:40 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357718#post357718</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357718#post357718</guid>
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						<p><q>headline today was one school has withdrawn, 30 have signed up. The bigot campaign appears to be unsuccessful.</q></p><p>Lovely. I do love a good unintended consequence.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:39:27 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357717#post357717</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357717#post357717</guid>
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						Something I discovered today. In England, adultery is grounds for divorce if you're married, but not for dissolution if you're in a civil partnership. But if you're in a same-sex marriage, you can only divorce your partner for adultery if they sleep with someone of the opposite sex. So if…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2016 16:38:54 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357715#post357715</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357715#post357715</guid>
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						<p><q>"same-sex marriage"...  I think we might want to be very careful to nuance that where the "T" in LGBT is concerned. ALL trans people deserve equal access to marriage</q></p><p>I'm aware of some of the issues, but the plebiscite wording is still unknown. NSW has our famous "none of the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:52:57 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357708#post357708</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357708#post357708</guid>
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						<p><q>First it was the review of the Safe Schools Program, because Heaven Forefend children learn not to bully people because of their sexuality or gender identity. </q><br />David Pope, Canberra Times.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2016 14:10:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357693#post357693</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357693#post357693</guid>
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						<q>everyone should have equal rights to marry whomever they choose, or not</q>That’s ambiguous in a few ways, though I get that the intent is to balance freely given consent, and (expressed, mutual) choice of partner(s), with no overt conditions on number or types of individuals (beyond those that would limit…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 23:48:55 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Dinah Dunavan</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357688#post357688</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357688#post357688</guid>
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						I like the term "marriage equality" because I thinks everyone should have equal rights to marry whomever they choose, or not. And that includes those who choose to marry someone who is already married. How many more years before our laws are changed to permit that choice?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:22:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357685#post357685</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357685#post357685</guid>
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						<p><q>I admit I still struggle to call it "marriage equality" rather than "same-sex marriage", just on factual grounds. </q></p><p>Well, up to a point.  I think we might want to be very careful to nuance that where the "T" in LGBT is concerned.  ALL trans people deserve equal access to marriage…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:09:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357657#post357657</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357657#post357657</guid>
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						<p>I admit I still struggle to call it "marriage equality" rather than "same-sex marriage", just on factual grounds. But whatever they call it, I think it's a useful next step towards equality, and probably a necessary one.</p><p>The plebiscite is hopefully going to be a bit more like the anti-smacking…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:54:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>tony j ricketts</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357655#post357655</link>
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						<p><q>There's nothing like Australian politics to make our own look less awful.</q></p><p>Thirty years ago we didn't have a plebiscite or referendum, but the meeting I went to at Henderson would have been sickening, with Key Hay and his preacher mate, except that the crowd was not with them, and…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:12:28 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>B Jones</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357649#post357649</link>
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						There's nothing like Australian politics to make our own look less awful.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:33:35 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357647#post357647</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357647#post357647</guid>
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						<p><q>Luckily the plebiscite is compulsory, so we should avoid the problem of “meh, whatever, why not” voters staying home and handing the process over to the die-hard opposition.</q></p><p>Oh, yes, one of the links I have in the piece on plebiscites in general says they're NOT compulsory, so good to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:37:07 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357646#post357646</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357646#post357646</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Actually, after watching the Disturbed &ndash; The Sound of Silence video I've taken to singing pop songs in more of a Disturbed/Nick Cave voice, and "Throw your arms" becomes a terrifying horrorshow of a song done that way. A deep slow voice singing "I will come for you at night…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:32:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357645#post357645</link>
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						<p>Wikipedia: <q>Some definitions of plebiscite suggest that it is a type of vote to change the constitution or government of a country.[1] Others define it as the opposite</q></p><p>See also the Saarland plebiscite (or referendum)</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:25:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357644#post357644</link>
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						<p><q>This is why having referenda (or, okay, plebiscites) on human rights issues is inherently degrading. </q></p><p>Which is what <a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7385312/Peters-calls-for-gay-marriage-referendum" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Winston Peters wanted.</a> Human rights debased to fodder for an idiots' auction.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 13:01:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357641#post357641</link>
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						<p><q>It’ll be fine, really, because the Christians have so far failed to get the restrictions on hate speech lifted for the duration. They have tried, though.</q></p><p>Wow. </p><p><q>at best you’d get some awful version of “Throw your arms around me”</q></p><p>That would be fabulous.</p><p><q>One positive is that Turnbull has…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:50:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357636#post357636</link>
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						<p><q>Take a moment to imagine what that’s going to sound like.</q></p><p>It'll be fine, really, because the Christians have so far failed to get the restrictions on hate speech lifted for the duration. <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/christian-lobby-seeks-antidiscrimination-override-for-plebiscite-campaign-20160215-gmu4kd.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">They have tried, though</a>.</p><p>I'm not sure what their version of hate speech would actually sound like,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:31:42 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-the-up-front-guide-to-plebs/?p=357635#post357635</link>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:31:42 +1300</pubDate>
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