A friend of a friend in the USA was studying what caused high school girls in the US to be labelled as "loose" (or a "slut" or etc) by…

Nowadays beards on young men seem to convey “mean” or “green”.

Nice. Probably more green than mean. Though Wolf from OF now 'sports' one so who knows.

I’m more offended by shit like this – the Mad Men ladies

Graig, I was just preparing a post on this very thing.…

The GQ shots, on the other hand, IMO, stepped WAY over that line into soft porn and I HATED them. Very creepy and completely squicky.

I'd agree with you — but I think it's also pertinent to note that Dianna Agron and Lea Michele are both 24 (they play teenagers…

Well perhaps most, just. I know many bearded men. My husband wore a beard for several years. Not any more, but once.

They were way more common when I was a lad. My Dad had a huge ginger beard, so it's always symbolized male adulthood to me, but my own…

Ever seen a beard on a prepubescent child? Or a woman?

I mean comparing an adult male with a beard to one without.

And comparison with women is likely to lead you to believe that it's the beard that makes people not grown up :)

Nor is massive sprouts of pubic hair, despite the obvious symbolism of it.

The subject of my next guest post. HDYK?

I’ve never seen growing a beard as in any way relating to sexual signs or growing up. I can’t really seem to think of beards as sexy in any way.

With all due respect, rubbish Kyle! So you're a bloke, why would you? Unless you're gay, then I couldn't possibly…

I've never seen growing a beard as in any way relating to sexual signs or growing up.

Ever seen a beard on a prepubescent child? Or a woman? Well OK, women can have noticeable facial hair, but I've never seen anything like what I sported after 3 weeks of laziness…

Then most of the men in this country return to boyhood every day!

Well perhaps most, just. I know many bearded men. My husband wore a beard for several years. Not any more, but once. I am betting my son will too one day. With that much hair, shaving must…

I'd say it's exactly the same Canute-ish motivation in either case – to prevent the display of visible sexual signs.

I've never seen growing a beard as in any way relating to sexual signs or growing up. I can't really seem to think of beards as sexy in any way.…

Growing a beard is surely, if anything, a symbol of the achievement of manhood, shave it off and you return to boyhood (plus pimples).

Then most of the men in this country return to boyhood every day!

I think it's something that has different symbolism in different times and places,…

snap, Sally

The teasing about shaving is mostly in reverse, if you refuse to shave it’s because you refuse to accept that you’re growing up. If you don’t need to shave it’s because you haven’t gone through puberty

Ben: Well, yes and no. Growing a beard is surely, if anything, a symbol…

Yes, and we got to see you! ;)

Fair's fair :-) Being a waterpolo player I even got to enjoy tussling with scantily clad girls during training. There was nothing slutty about it – sport is a totally different, of course, all above board, even what was going on under…

...and of course during swim sports days we pretty much got to see everyone except the teachers in their undies.

Yes, and we got to see you! ;)

At the high school my 17 year old son attends, the boys are required to shave. Apparently some Year 13's don't, and…

The end of uniforms did not end the slut-shaming, though. There was still a…

The GQ shots, on the other hand, IMO, stepped WAY over that line into soft porn and I HATED them. Very creepy and completely squicky.

Yeah, it's pretty impressive when you can make American Apparel clothing look even creepier than their own ad campaigns do.

Whereas I thought the costuming for the Britney Glee episode last week (which I guess was the original inspiration for the GQ shoot?) was spot-on.

Britney’s costumes for the original videos, were, I think (not being an expert on these things) pretty well replicated in the dream…

Am I the only person who found these pictures really rather squicky?

Nope.

I see your Britney and raise you a Glee:

GQ Glee photoshoot.

I know this was mentioned ages ago in the thread but anyway...

Am I the only person who found these pictures really rather squicky?

I went and had a look out of interest (I have obviously been hiding…

Not fashionable, I know, at times. But I’m a bit like that.

Witty statement which hath eluded me and thus was deleted.

Or something.

“If Moby Dick had been written by a Canadian, it would have been from the whale’s point of view.”

Margaret Atwood is wayy beyond brilliant.

Did you see Atom Egoyan’s film The Sweet Hereafter, Dyan? It was a real downer in a way that was just totally .. Canadian.

Oh, god, yes that film is so Canadian. Earlier Canadian films have equally depressing themes – Goin' Down the Road is the Canadian equivalent (in other…

One of my favourite Canadians would be
Rand Holmes (R.I.P.) best known for his classic Harold Hedd underground comics and his Georgia Straight (Vancouver) covers and contributions.

Thank you for posting this – hadn't heard – but this is very sad news.

Which one are you thinking of, Islander?

pasty white Scottish skin (I can say this as I have this skin colour myself)

White, going on purple? Me too. ;-)

The sassenach made the Scots wear leggings, which is where the dance “Seann Truibhias” (spelling? unsure….way back in my memory) comes from.

Snap, Carol!

BTW – if you really want to go for backup overkill, may I recommend Dropbox?

My reaction to this is the same as to the requirement that I carry my immigration paper work at all times: no WAY are the most important pieces of paper in my life leaving their safe homes except when absolutely necessary.

I'm paranoid enough that I have two photocopies of…

It really puzzles me why a people living in such a madly cold, windy and inclement climate didn't wear TROUSERS! Or does the icy draught up your kilt keep you fierce?

As I understand it, the kilt as known in the modern day was never really worn that way: c.f.…

the chap behind the desk told us that we should carry not only our passports, but also our Social Security cards with us at all times while travelling, because they were requiring actual proof of your Social Security Number for various things.

My reaction to this is the same as…

Obviously, if it’s not yours, I have an overactive imagination! ;-)

a true Scotsman will never tell you what's under his kilt.
He'll show you, quick as a flash. But he'll never tell you.

It really puzzles me why a people living in such a madly cold, windy and inclement climate didn't wear TROUSERS! Or does the icy draught up your…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9PcDfjkzN0

Ross Mason – authoritively, your kilt should just graze the ground when you kneel.

And none of you called a slut! Dress sense slovened but sluttish – not. AND it had a slit up the side!

Thank you.

I sit here in my kilt (Gunn tartan). The question for you all is:

What have I got on underneath?

Oh but a true Scotsman will never tell you what's under his kilt.
He'll show you, quick as a flash. But he'll never tell you.

[line poached from BBC4 News…

because they were requiring actual proof of your Social Security Number for various things. (I never even had a Social Security Number until I was in my 20s, but our son had to apply for one with his passport.) It’s all quite wacky.

Stop, you'll make me cry. I've already…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgje30_xM7g&feature=related

a tiny picture of a car being hauled out of an icy river

Did you see Atom Egoyan’s film The Sweet Hereafter, Dyan? It was a real downer in a way that was just totally .. Canadian.

Mounties spanking lumberjacks, saying ‘Don’t do it again, Pierre,’
Pictures of rotten teeth as health warnings on maple syrup packaging.
I love a good stereotype, please don’t anyone spoil it for me.

Jeez, the maple syrup warning thing I can believe Joe, and I can add to it... one year…

I sit here in my kilt (Gunn tartan). The question for you all is:

What have I got on underneath? I wear it 25.4mm above the knee.

And is that ….appropriate??

As I am sure you're aware ,Sacha, Danielle has deep (Colac Bay) Southern ANZroots – as well as those other ones-

accustomed to Canadian culture

Mounties spanking lumberjacks, saying 'Don't do it again, Pierre,'
Pictures of rotten teeth as health warnings on maple syrup packaging.
I love a good stereotype, please don't anyone spoil it for me.

southerners

different country

Yeah, I… don’t think we can blame his behaviour, as we usually do, on Not Being Canadian. ;)

No, we don't blame it on him Not Being Canadian, we blame it on his not being accustomed to Canadian culture. Canada has just as many assholes, perverts and racists as New…

Or maybe that guy was just an asshole?

Yeah, I... don't think we can blame his behaviour, as we usually do, on Not Being Canadian. ;)

They just go out of their way to make you feel welcome here, don’t you agree?

They're now even crackers with the supposedly welcome-to-stay…

Or maybe that guy was just an asshole? Because this is seriously not acceptable behaviour in any circles I have ever been in, ever.

Well clearly he was an asshole, but in a culture where flesh has always been visible, by early middle age (as he was in) a guy…

How times change… the era I was describing (1985) was many years before security was observed domestically (as North Americans traveling within North America were classified)

Dude, that was before I was born. Before I was conceived, even. Clearly doesn’t count ;)

Maybe that weird attitude towards women here is…

As an international student living not too awfully far from the Canadian border, I’ve been advised to carry all my immigration documentation if I venture within a hundred miles of the border, literally

How times change… the era I was describing (1985) was many years before security was observed domestically…

Nowadays that would be different, I’m sure.

As an international student living not too awfully far from the Canadian border, I've been advised to carry all my immigration documentation if I venture within a hundred miles of the border, literally – which doesn't involve going very far from where I…

He demanded a passport – something a Canadian didn't need travelling through the USA or Mexico.

Wouldn't your passport be the way you prove you are Canadian?

As a Canadian traveling between Mexico and Canada I didn't need a passport to travel anywhere in North America. A Canadian would no…

Google is your friend..

Yay! :))

some PAS esoteric wording that everyone but me would know, like y'know, "roflnui" or something

Google is your friend..

Unlike the rest of the world the US has no international transit facilities, so if you stop over while traveling from Mexico…

So you have to carry something in order to prove you dont have to carry it?

Exactly. Poor guy was probably just following procedure Dyan.

Wouldn't your passport be the way you prove you are Canadian?

So you have to carry something in order to prove you dont have to carry it?

After all, noone would ever blame an SUV owner for leading people on into thinking that they are actually wakers.

Um. Andre, did you miss an "n" out?

He demanded a passport – something a Canadian didn't need travelling through the USA or Mexico.

Wouldn't your passport be the way you prove you are Canadian?

EDIT; Uh-oh. Some of you people are so quick! Maybe it's my fault for reading through in order?

I didn't know that they had surveys 2000 years ago. I thought things were just decreed.

Servius Tullius, 578-535 BC, first instituted the census in Rome. Does that count? [Sorry]

I doubt they asked anyone to lift their toga to see if their tunic was shorter than the regulatory length.…

The streets of Christchurch – indeed, the world – must be littered with earnest chaps, all toppled by a rush of blood from the brain.

…hence stum-bled?

Though it does leave room for some
entrepreneur to create a whole range of
quiet understated personal adornment,
aka Schtum Bling

…the Diamante…

Come on Kyle, it’s not like you to play the player not the ball.

Did the pope sign up for PAS? Because I've got some things I want to share with him.

Otherwise, not the player, just a religious belief system.

just that we should try and reign them in…

There are enough attacks the devil launches at us in the area of lust as it is without having to, as often in my experience, stare at the floor the duration of Sunday…

I misread that as “extreme dangling”. I just can’t even.

In the face of all this rampant female immodesty, any kind of dangling is surely a victory for prayer and self-distraction. And extreme dangling will get you straight to heaven.

This is of course the hateful flip side of tagging…

Are you my conscience?

If that position is vacant I guess I could fill it.

It should be the Eleventh Commandment.

Perhaps it was...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk

Is that your voice in my head?

Are you my conscience?

‘Extremely damaging to my thought life’.

I misread that as "extreme dangling". I just can't even.

‘Extremely damaging to my thought life’.

So sincere, and so universally applicable, that I am crying tears of laughter.

If only there was some way I could pretend to be the voice of god and say to them ‘honestly, just have a wank: you’ll feel better for it’.

It should…

I could pretend to be the voice of god

Is that your voice in my head?

Girlfriend: if the skirt’s wearing you, instead of you wearing the skirt, take it off.

But whatever you do, don’t have a bikini on underneath it! Because they are ‘so immodest it’s sickening’ and also? ‘Extremely damaging to my thought life’.

(Oh, I feel a bit mean laughing at the…

Emma, I’ll go you halves in that pony for Lucy, kay?

---

I’ll pitch in.

so that's like ponying up for a pony, which is what – twenty-five pounds sterling?
quids in or quid pro quo

...or is that now 3 people in a pony suit?
front,…

Seeing a girl stretching (e.g. arching the back, reaching the arms back, and sticking out the chest) is a stumbling block.

So 56% of these guys need to stay…

On second thoughts, I don't care.

as I walk, young fundamentalist Christian men have to be very careful they don’t trip over and hurt themselves

The streets of Christchurch — indeed, the world — must be littered with earnest chaps, all toppled by a rush of blood from the brain.

An ankle-length skirt with a…

Who do you think gave me this magnificent chestal region?

Unfortunately, according to 75% of their respondents, seeing a girl's chest bounce is something called a "stumbling block". I'm assuming this means that, as I walk, young fundamentalism Christian men have to be very careful they don't trip over and…

I see what you did there. Snerk.

Oh no – too much fun on that site. Must. Do. Work...

For those of you trying to be modest, thank you, thank you, thank you! I certainly notice it and am grateful for it. For those of you who aren't sure about modesty, it is hard enough for us guys as it is; please…

The Modesty Survey, in which several hundred teenage Christian boys get kind of freaky about what their female counterparts are wearing. (Example: over 50% of them think a shrug draws too much attention to the chestal region.)

A quote from the front page:

Dress for the glory of God

Well,…

My mother vividly remembers being tucked into bed by nuns when she was prepubescent, and the edict that her arms should stay outside the blankets, even in winter – of course she had no idea why.

If the dorm was an unheated one, perhaps it was the nun equivalent of…

everything becomes hyper-sexualised and hand-holding is one step away from fornication

Yes! Which reminded me of this: The Modesty Survey, in which several hundred teenage Christian boys get kind of freaky about what their female counterparts are wearing. (Example: over 50% of them think a shrug draws too much attention…

Struggling to see the flaw in my cunning plan…

Most of the people who need placating don't seem to remember gay teenagers exist?

Obviously pondering how best to repress all teenagers makes everything so much hotter!

Not just hotter, but as Lucy points out, way more philosophically exciting.

I reckon most, if not all, of the moral panic over teen sexuality and its expression is pinned on girls simply because they're the ones…

After all, noone would ever blame an SUV owner for leading people on into thinking that they are actually wakers.

Obviously pondering how best to repress all teenagers makes everything so much hotter!

Effectively repressing sexual behaviour requires so much more consideration of its details and potential outlets, until everything becomes hyper-sexualised and hand-holding is one step away from fornication. Considered outside the social consequences, it's almost elegant.

Sorry, SUV-shaming. Not cool.

Doesn’t Mitsubishi have a model of car called the Diamante? I always thought that was ridiculous.

I love random Italian words on Asian cars and dream of one day owning a Suzuki Cappuccino.

Tess's rather... expressive... description of short skirts was more thought than I have ever put into the entire 'sexual signals' issue. Obviously pondering how best to repress all teenagers makes everything so much hotter!

Came across a little girl called ‘Diamante’ the other day. So, not even semi-precious?

Name your child 'value-less fake copy of something precious'?

That shows a distinct lack of thought....

Regardless of how you, heh, dress it up, it's just another form of the old "Look how she's dressed, she totally…

Short skirts highlight the upper thighs. They skim just below the buttocks. As a woman walks in a short skirt her hip movement is accentuated and her thighs can be seen rubbing one another.

None of this causes promiscuity.

However it does send a sexual signal. I’m saying we should…

Tess holds more conservative views than most here & her greatest sin seems to be being overly familiar with the inner workings of KAOS.

I think Deborah's expressing some understandable frustration at having gone round the merry-go-round several times with the same tactics on display.

We've gone nine pages here and…

Tess holds more conservative views than most here & her greatest sin seems to be being overly familiar with the inner workings of KAOS.

Pwned

I had boyfriends yes, but I didn't do one night stands, I was always emotionally involved in the men I…

EDIT: You'll never remember the question from that long ago. Sorry, I've been away for a…

I walked past this movie poster

I've been seeing that from the bus and quietly fuming at its implications (no idea whether the movie lives down to my expectations or not). It kind of primed the motor of outrage that got started up by the Newlands thing.

One of the…

Avenue D, "Do I look like a slut?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZg2M89uZM

No I totally expected it. I even said so earlier in the thread.

http://sloth.geek.nz/hist1/html/29.html#pic

I'm…

BLAM! Priestly scandal!! I knew it, I just knew it

You bring the Catholic slut-shaming and guilt, Tess, what do you really expect?

Yes, because that works. Ahem.

It brings them closer to the fold where they can benefit from the wisdom and.. love of religious elders

BLAM! Priestly scandal!! I knew it, I just knew it :) LOL.

(And thanks for the tip on its ultimate origin [adds to collection of lore].)

Looking back here (he's the one in the chair) I may be wrong about the year, it might have been 1988. But... I don't think it was. It was still fresh enough for plenty of people…

Or you can put your children in a private church school if you insist on keeping them in the dark or throttling their human urges.

Yes, because that works. Ahem.

Education about sexuality must encompass more than diseases. Helping equip young people to make good decisions…

Tour de First Year is a KAOS award – part of the jokey End of Year Awards. I’ve no idea if it’s still given, but I do know its origin.

Nope, it's one of those occasional historical mentions now. The gender mix is rather more even as well. (And thanks…

And I just wasn't making assumptions.

So first year women more commonly have sex with lots of members of the opposite sex than first year men? Or that the women who do it fall into the definition of promiscuous more than men? I don’t understand.

Allow me to offer additional contextual information.

Examples would be one…

Not first year women, usually in my uni social group it was older women that did the tour de first year. I'm trying to think of a guy that did…

Seems that society still thinks that women who have casual sex are dirty whores

Sing it, sister. Although I quite like the term “dirty whore”. Slovenly, slatternly…….I am all of the above. Only now it’s my house that gets the benefit of my dirty whoredom.

Megan Wegan: I don't know if I can actually explain to you why I think promiscuity is negative. It's not like I was a virgin when I married, but I have never been keen on…

So, yes, Christchurch. TOFO and drinkies, Friday night. Venue TBA, but we’re so gob-smackingly lazy it’ll probably be the Dux. I can call Megan a slut if that helps.

You can, and you will.

Promiscuity is IMO a series of short term, uncommitted sexual relationships that don’t involve emotional intimacy.…

And yeah, you do need to define promiscuity. How many is too many? What about the rare teenage couple that gets together at 16 and then happily raise…

(Emma, Friday = TOFO, yes?)

Assuming it's anything above nipple-shatteringly freezing, damn straight. I don't actually own any short skirts, but there will be visible cleavage and lots of it. I will not be sexually available, nor sending a message that I am sexually available. And you know what? The…

That is not true, and you know it. Catholics are perfectly allowed to plan their families as long as they use NFP, modern forms of which are highly reliable.

It took Humanae Vitae to finally and very begrdugingly accept it – and still nobody uses it. I don't have the…

They are kids and need guidance. They certainly don't need condemnation or to send anymore 12yr olds to jail.

Sure. And I do remember. I actually miss my woolen tights, they were so…

That is not true, and you know it. Catholics are perfectly allowed to plan their families as long as they use NFP, modern forms of which are highly reliable.

However it does send a sexual signal. I’m saying we should reign in teenagers from giving out sexual signals.

Tess, I don't know if you actually remember being a teenager, but from what I remember, cladding young women in long pinafores and woolen tights (my actual school uniform) wasn't enough…

Although, assuming I'm wrong, what behavior do you all think is acceptable for teenagers? And yes, good point about 16 being the age for sexual consent. I mean are guys pro-teen promiscuity?

Catholicism, raging against biology for 2000 years.

Then when you do get married, they want you to have sex only for procreation. Just as well nobody listens to Pope Dorothy really.

(Fun fact: the country with the lowest natality rate in the world is – drumroll please – Italy.)

I’m saying we should reign in teenagers from giving out sexual signals.

Catholicism, raging against biology for 2000 years.