PAS, I've missed you all and I recently started a new job in an open plan setting... first time in something like 12 years... I've not yet worked out the culture of "my online time".

Work out who the nosey-parkers are and tilt your screen accordingly! My theory is that…

Jack (and TracyMac), so reading your discussion, shoulder and outside bicep are tolerable and possibly pleasurable for newbees to tattoos? Any recommendations for artists in Akl? What's the consensus on pain of line-work vs. colouring?

I wouldn't go as far as pleasurable, but the outside bicep was certainly a relatively…

My tattooist of choice is a half hour drive away, so I get the fun experience of driving home through rush hour traffic afterwards.

Jack (and TracyMac), so reading your discussion, shoulder and outside bicep are tolerable and possibly pleasurable for newbees to tattoos? Any recommendations for artists in Akl?…

Too right they are. I find now that I get definite endorphin lows on days when I don't ride or run.

I now feel that I should start a campaign to make this problem a health issue, rather than a legal one. Norml will help kick it off.

Those endorphins must be good shit to put up with all that.

Too right they are. I find now that I get definite endorphin lows on days when I don't ride or run.

science in general is pretty damned hot at being right

Best thing we've ever come up with for discovering truths about the world.

Meh, not really. For a good few hundred years now each "wrong" has been more accurately described as "incomplete".

So before Darwin, Western ideas about the Creation…

science in general is pretty damned hot at being right.

I think this is the phrase you're looking for.

That's why we act as though our scientists really understand the universe, when history suggests on past performance that they are only less wrong about it.

Meh, not really. For a good few hundred years now each "wrong" has been more accurately described as "incomplete". Sometimes the bit you don't…

I am not fussy about daleks..

Which is a dubious opening to Larry Niven's Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex – or, getting jiggy with the Last Son of Krypton could be injurious to your health.

Of course in moving…

We're a very explanation-centric species, though. People like identifying patterns, like "knowing how it works", because if you can understand something you've got a bit of power over it. The notion that sometimes stuff just happens is pretty frightening…

Valiant sacrifice is when you give up your car for a more responsible ride, innit?

Ba-doom-tish. Also, true in my family. Though a 'family car' (insert appropriate sneering tone) is anything with a back seat.

it's only your what-not that is appreciated by teh wimminz .

I need something to…

Bitch could have woken me up before she buggered off. Lost half me leg!

Oh, yeah, we appreciate your valiant sacrifices and what-not.

Why do women orgasm less than men? Someone has to stay up and watch for tigers.

First of all, we do what now?

And yeah, I've heard a variation of this one, which is that the reason men feel sleepy after orgasm and women don't is so that when the…

Why do women orgasm less than men? Someone has to stay up and watch for tigers.

I spent a lot of time writing genetic algorithms to solve optimization problems a few years ago. One of the most frustrating things about that was that people always wanted me to explain the…

Why do women orgasm less than men? Someone has to stay up and watch for tigers.

I also get the old endorphin buzz from…

The last experience of non-sexual pain I had that produced that effect was tattooing. Low-level pain over a sustained period of time. I came out of that all bouncy and giggly and I'd have happily stayed in the chair for hours.

Trust me: after the fifth hour, it gets very,…

Everything you know is wrong... Much more diverse than you think... Can't tell from looking at…

I came out of that all bouncy and giggly and I'd have happily stayed in the chair for hours.

You almost make tattooing sound fun.

There is definitely "good" pain and "bad" pain, and how that is experienced depends very much on context and, as you say, our individual selves.

Indeed. I still have a functional 'ow quit it' response to sharp sudden pain – like touching something hot or sharp. That warning is still…

Peter is a good scientist.

...and our bodies are wonderful things – 'they' are us! We *are* our bodies! BUT – a very large number-the total majority- of humans find pain, intrinsic or inflicted, blighting. That's why…

Depends on how good and honest a researcher they are. A good scientist follows the data, so that person may get their mind changed both by engaging with the community and studying it.

Erm, if someone is making pronouncements like the one mentioned, it seems fairly likely that their interpretation…

Regarding endorphins, when people hear a word like "flogging", they normally go AAHHHH at the thought. But actually, a mild…

So if one of the researchers on a particular community, who is often quoted, is on record as publicly saying that members of that community should "get therapy – or kill themselves", you wouldn't worry about that either?

Depends on how good and honest a researcher they are. A good…

So if one of the researchers on a particular community, who is often quoted, is on record as publicly saying that members of that community should "get therapy – or kill themselves", you wouldn't worry about that either?

"My Mama didn't raise no rude boy – you first," would be…

What I'm saying is relax about the research.

So if one of the researchers on a particular community, who is often quoted, is on record as publicly saying that members of that community should "get therapy – or kill themselves", you wouldn't worry about that either?

As Craig (I think) pointed out

'Twas Emma, but hell... you should know by now that lowering the tone of any discussion is me thang, and I work it like a supermodel. :)

(I've now got an…

there is good science there the fact that most people seem to be born gay is a neutral fact. You can for eg be born deaf but be taught to speak and lipread.

Um... did you just compare sex with lipreading?

Yeah, I've had sex like that, too.

Page 2 was where Craig and I started discussing anal sex...

I'm terribly sorry, Stewart. Next time I promise to write about kittens or something.

So we can start chatting about anal sex with kittens — which is a place where I am willing to get a wee bit judgemental.…

Getting tied up in details beyond those facts is utterly unnecessary.

I thought getting tied up could be entirely necessary?

(Okay, that's it, sleep time.)

I tend to avoid UpFront from behind the corporate firewall.

I'm terribly sorry, Stewart. Next time I promise to write about kittens or something.

Well you confused this n00b by writing "Dom(me)". Still, I could have misread it worse..

oh, it wasn't just you, according to my off-site communication. I should probably have used 'Dom/me', which would just have given me problems with IRC users.

The thing is that nobody directly involved is really conscious of the volume of the gratitude.

And if they are, it is fair to say, they are doing it wrong.

didn't want to talk too much about Dom psychology, it not being mine.

Well you confused this n00b by writing "Dom(me)". Still, I could have misread it worse..

But is it too much to hope that the participants would keep the noise down so…

I suppose gratitude is a skill..

A pill of super-concentrated truthiness there, Sacha — and its a little psychic muscle that atrophies all too quickly if you don't regularly (and consciously) exercise it. God damn and God bless this fucked-up, crazy beautiful once and only world. There's plenty of both…

The same is true in at least some states of the US. I've seen BDSM subs talking about being scared to make too much noise in case their neighbours get the cops called to a 'domestic disturbance' – once the police are in, charges go forward no matter what the…

It is very much a part of the culture that the sub's happiness is the Dom(me)'s responsibility. The reverse, not so much.

Some more "yeah, but" here. That is very true. However, being an unresponsive sub/bottom is generally regarded as a negative as well – they should be giving something…

You do not want to piss off female subs, as a generalisation. Those poor deluded degraded brain-washed chickies will hand you your arse and ask if you want fries with that.

So true.

As for the theory about sub/bottoms who had been physically punished as children, I always like to…

This parallel universe you inhabit must be a very strange place.

Sounds like a stink place too.

Is that why no one is funny?

This parallel universe you inhabit must be a very strange place.

Seconded – it's deeply fascinating and deeply worrying at the same time, especially the problems the MPAA seems to have with women actually being seen to enjoy sex...

Or as Jack Nicholson neatly put it: "Kiss a tit and you get an X rating. Cut a tit off, you're PG."…

women actually being seen to enjoy sex...

They what now? Why was I not informed of this earlier? This is an outrage!

I'd strongly recommend laying hands on Kirby Dick's This Film Is Not Yet Rated and marvel at what a thoroughly creepy body the MPAA really is.

Seconded – it's deeply fascinating and deeply worrying at the same time, especially the problems the MPAA seems to have with women actually being…

Ha – he's moved in just up the road from us... Welcome to the suburbs, folks!

Knotting Hill I presume.

]]> Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:25:51 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-take-strictly-as-directed/?p=125823#post125823 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-take-strictly-as-directed/?p=125823#post125823

"That's a fucking clever headline"

PA has always had the best subs.

Roffles...

PA has always had the best subs.

What about the Subs on that "trade mag"
the Dom-Post...?

Strictly Ballroom...?
...chiming in on the Big Gay Icecream Truck,
what happened to Mr Whippy?

yrs
A. Cone-Head
always licked, but never beaten...

"That's a fucking clever headline"

PA has always had the best subs.

You just made my night.

And my day.

I think it's quite a good thing that a google for "Paul Holmes Slash" returns various stories on Guns and Roses, but nothing of the kind that I was looking for.

Maybe this is more fertile territory. Imagination is free...

Jerry Falwell talks about his first time

"That's a fucking clever headline"

PA has always had the best subs.

You just made my night.

Paul Holmes' sex life (even if it does lurch towards new frontiers in autoeroticism) isn't kinky enough for you?

I think it's quite a good thing that a google for "Paul Holmes Slash" returns various stories on Guns and Roses, but nothing of the kind that I was looking for.…

"That's a fucking clever headline"

PA has always had the best subs.

Savage Love was originally going to be called "Hey, Faggot!", back when Dan Savage was in his confrontational ACT-UP days.

I love me some Savage Love, I have learned many many things about what other people are doing in bed from reading him.

Once flatted with a fetishist. There are times it's good to be deaf, what with trying to read while some chick tied to a bed is waiting eight hours to climax next door.

Ha – he's moved in just up the road from us, and I see him waiting for…

"And today on Ask a Fag,
...
We sooo have to pitch that to NZ On Air. Why should Brown suck up all the glamour

Savage Love was originally going to be called "Hey, Faggot!", back when Dan Savage was in his confrontational ACT-UP days. I believe his editor persuaded…

Dear Craig: please don't ever mention Paul Holmes in a thread about kinky sex ever again.

Yours,

The entire world

He's probably a bit busy burying his mum.

Woah. Now Dalziel's doing thread crossovers. In awe.

Second that.

i'm sure it'll all be food for thought and I'll get my just deserts if I'm tart with Hart, when down with Brown in town...

yrs indulgently

We are so lucky to be indulged.

Interestingly the root of the word vanilla is from the Latin vagina – sheath/scabbard – so it's right on the muni!

Woah. Now Dalziel's doing thread crossovers. In awe.

"That's a fucking clever headline"

Shit yes. Chapter title? I do like vanilla, but always interesting to hear about other flavours.

the prospect of introducing Hart and Dalziel

I would pay to be at that dinner.

You start by telling me I’m wrong, then you try to work out how…

Indeed – where rainbows come from.

The anterior sparkle siphon, probably.

The rainbow connection.

Wrong discriminated group. As S. Colbert could tell you, rainbows are just god's way of frowning at gay people.

The rainbow connection.

Indeed – where rainbows come from.

Surely what constitutes ones best behaviour is a matter of perspective.

I used to describe my behaviour as 'exemplary', which sounds like a good thing initially.

The two cultures – BDSM and LGBT – cross over and become sub-cultures of each other...

... male subs and female Dommes are both referred to as 'unicorns' ...

Aha!

The rainbow connection.

I shall be on my best behaviour, unfortunately. Well, at least initially.

I wasn't implying you'd be anything but.

The mindsets of BDSM fascinate me. The master is the servant is the master...

Its a voluntary coupling where no one has power over the other, either of them can walk away and end the thing. If the dom(me) is not having fun then that is the end, just as much as if the sub is unhappy.

I have this whole 'yeah but nah…

As for the awful English B&D witch hunts, I've got a couple of friends who fled England for that very reason, escaping to our liberal isles where we – at least mostly – let consenting…

The only consolation is the prospect of introducing Hart and Dalziel over dinner later on

And I shall be hiding behind a ficus, recording a bootleg of the whole thing.

So,back to basics eh?

I prefer to call it reaching my target demographic with an iron fist in a full length rubber glove.

Dear Craig: please don't ever mention Paul Holmes in a thread about kinky sex ever again.

Paul Holmes' sex life (even if it does lurch towards new…

Yours,

The entire world.

'Psychics Sense Gangs of Morbidly Obese Teenage Pit Bulls With Leaky Breast Implants and Funny Looking (But Very Big) Penises Gone Wild on P in South Auckland'.

So,back to basics eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U68s4JI22Zk

The person with the power to bring the whole thing to a screaming halt, whose needs supercede the other party’s, is the sub.

Its a voluntary coupling where no one has power over the other, either of them can walk away and end the thing. If the dom(me) is not…

The problem isn't getting NZ On Air to fund it, it's getting the networks to screen it ...

Oh well, back to the proposal for 'Psychics Sense Gangs of Morbidly…

I'd just like for there to be a word for 'not kinky' that isn't 'normal

Ken and Barbie ? normalacious? standardista, or my fav of all Lisa and Gary Johnston
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvdlvNdVI-I>
Not only better than a poke in the eye,there is one.:)

"And today on Ask a Fag,"

We sooo have to pitch that to NZ On Air. Why should Brown suck up all the glamour?

Not feeling remotely glamorous today. Will probably have to front up and present the show tomorrow night with a thumping cold, then get up first thing…

I wonder whether boingboing know...

Unicorn chaser LOL

Not bad. I think it's Trinity on that comment thread who says, look okay, all you not-kinkies go away and work out what you want to be called, and then we'll call you that. In the meantime...

It is Trinity indeed *goes back to reading said thread*

"And today on Ask a Fag,

We sooo have to pitch that to NZ On Air. Why should Brown suck up all the glamour?

anal sex: why is it only inherently degrading for women?"...

Please... I've already over explaining that teh gayz aren't all parties to the anal apocalypse, and…

"You're a fag, why does even thinking about sucking cock make me want to gag?" Thanks, hon', outed and grossed out all at once...

"And today on Ask a Fag, anal sex: why is it only inherently degrading for women?"...

Erotypical?

Not bad. I think it's Trinity on that comment…

But I don't see 'vanilla' as boring. I love vanilla as a flavour.

Also a pleasantly base for whatever combo of garnish, sauce or random foliage floats your taste buds, one might think. :)

French vanilla, on the other hand...

The real stuff gets its distinctive flavour and slight yellow tinge from egg yolk. Read into that what you will.

An interesting read – thanks. I imagine everyone has a list of sexual practices that make them go "ew" or even just "I don't…

I'd just like for there to be a word for 'not kinky' that isn't 'normal'.

Erotypical?

Among the sites I read, male subs and female Dommes are both referred to as 'unicorns', due to the extent to which their existence is ignored.

I wonder whether boingboing know what with they're Unicorn Chaser but it would certainly take your mind off things and that was the aim...

I'd just like for there to be a word for 'not kinky' that isn't 'normal'.

Yeah, I'd like that too – I was conscious of posting an objection without actually offering an alternative, which pisses me off when other people do it...

the German movie industry

I thought we were avoiding stereotyping here?

(I still have a copy of Dundes' Life is like a Chicken Coop Ladder lying around somewhere, in which book he controversially posited that scatology was deeply embedded in German folk culture, tying Swabian folk rhymes, Luther and the…

Sounds like someone needs a visit from the Big Gay Ice Cream Truck.

Awesome. Um. What do its chimes play?

And there's an interesting discussion about problems with the term 'vanilla in the comments here. Most of the contributors are not vanilla people, which obviously biases it a bit. Just…

Can I just say that, before I even read the post, I thought: "That's a fucking clever headline"?

What he said.

I imagine everyone has a list of sexual practices that make them go "ew" or even just "I don't geddit"

Justine and I had dinner at the table next to a couple of porn actresses some years ago, and I can safely say it was the most instructive hour of…

Sounds like someone needs a visit from the Big Gay Ice Cream Truck.

Vanilla means boring – to refer to the metaphor it's based on, no-one's favourite flavour is vanilla; it's a base that needs something else on top to make it really good – it's inherently lacking.

I totally understand that point of view, and I know some people are really uncomfortable…

[tries to work that into the metaphor]

[head explodes]

Can I…

I think the dynamics of power that exist in BDSM practices are interesting, but how/if they relate to life outside the bedroom is in no way straightforward.

I think you can say that about sex, full stop and period. The bedroom can be the theatre of the fantastic, where lions…

I read, male subs and female Dommes are both referred to as 'unicorns',

That makes me happy as I know far more subservient men than dominant ones. Damn it. Hey unicorns!

This hasn't been my experience. I know a few doms and subs who consider themselves radical feminists.

George, yeah, it's a generalisation, based on the repetitive "BDSM wars" in the blogosphere, which tend to be waged between people who identify as 'third-wave/sex-pos' feminists, and those who identify as 'radical' feminists.…

I sympathise with your argument but I have a problem with putting these things entirely off-limits. I also can't reconcile it with the very next paragraph which provides an explanation based on physiology. There's your cause right there, yes?

Yes, you're right, perhaps I was unclear. I'm fine with biological…

Meanwhile, radical feminism pretends male subs don't exist, and teaches that all subs are women conditioned by society to think they enjoy being dominated by men, sexually and in all other areas of their lives.

This hasn't been my experience. I know a few doms and subs who consider themselves…

The delicious irony about BDSM is that it only works of both parties are specific — and honest — about their expectations and limits. That is a good thing, right?

Yeah, I mean, I'd hate to give the impression that there are no arseholes in the BDSM community, because of…

That’s what brings us to this place, one where I’m going to try to explain BDSM, in a manner so unsalacious as to suck all the fun out of it.

Initially I thought well, that's just cruel, but brilliant work as usual, Emma. With special hooray for the following:

To…

And where oh where can I buy me some black dildo candles? I think they'd be the perfect conversation piece for the next dinner party.

Well, there's this (Totally NSFW) but it's not black.

The British legal system, in an effort to be able to prosecute perpetrators of domestic violence, can now bring charges even if the victim doesn't want to.

The same is true in at least some states of the US. I've seen BDSM subs talking about being scared to make too…

The very, very brave among you might find some value in visiting lesbian BDSM site Bleu Productions (NSFW!)

Oh man, why can't all porn be shot that prettily? And where oh where can I buy me some black dildo candles? I think they'd be the perfect conversation piece for the…

I really, really wish we'd stop trying…