And I always thought he was merely a beardless boy....

There’s a reason why Richie McCaw, Conrad Smith and all these [All Blacks] have come out and said change the flag – everywhere they go in the world people wave their…

I can't see the NZ, though. I see a silver fern.

That's evil man. 666 is in there, plain to see if you're a computer.

Dr Bryce Edwards is also quoted in the ODT story.

"The flags…

http://www.nzflag.com/example.cfm

And it is recognised that the black and white fern logo is trademarked;

__Former Black Caps captain Stephen Fleming chose the black and white stylised fern as his favourite. **That design includes a fern which is trademarked and used as a logo by Government…

...and here is the Dalziel tartan (above)

Last step in the process was National party caucus making the decision.

Hence we have a crappy business logo in National party colours.

Precisely what was intended in the first place.

I see the NZ white feather is about pacifism
In the 1870s, the Māori prophet of passive resistance Te Whiti…

...why not just use a barcode or QR code for a flag?
it'd be very modern... post-modern even...

Though that Trade & Enterprise swipe is a tad botanically inaccurate, and looks a bit chunky.

But what better symbol for a nation being steadily taken over by money-traders and body-snatchers, than a…

My god I love that. Not for a flag, just for itself.

I think I might just start spreading it on my networks anyway….

And then apparently ignored nearly all those principles. This process is off the rails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tENhOnfD82M&feature=youtu.be

Or am I totally out-of-touch and it's already spreading like mad on Twitter?

Detailed due diligence will now be completed on these designs, including robust intellectual property checks.

https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/open-letter/

Someone should send an OIA to NZTE and ask if that option breaches their TM. Wonder how they’d answer that :-).

Basically they:
– got rid of an oppressive, alien form of government
– had a specialist, Fred Brownell, design a flag to mark this

We should follow this proven…

All of them look ‘designed by committee’. The koru is the least worst option if a no-confidence vote is unavailable. Or even the spoiled ballot as mentioned above.

The flag design selection carries the whiff of the Wellywood sign controversy, where a lot…

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/29259114/spoil-ballot-papers-peters-urges-voters/

I'd be absolutely delighted if the spoiled votes outweighed any vote for a single alternate design.

That would send the best message ever to John Key.

I naively assumed they would keep at least one Gordon Walter’s inspired option, or anything at all for those who might wish to vote for something recognizably referencing New Zealand’s rich visual arts tradition.

When there was a blank sheet, with our options limited only by imagination, naturally people had plenty to say, seriously or not. But that's over now, we can't colour in any more flags, or even tweak the ones…

I'm underwhelmed. Bastardisations of the classic silver fern, two with overlaid nods to colonialism, and a plagiarised variant of the Hundertwasser flag. What a gross waste of public money.

The top one had to be included, not because I like it, but because the silver fern should be an option. Nos 2 and 4 are committee jobs, which leaves the third. But it's black. So, no.

None of them can match the Maori…

With the flag referendum costing $26 million, the last thing he wants on his hands is a flop, a debate remembered more for running gags about some of the more infamous designs, like laser Kiwi, the "boom" flag and…

"Someone said to me, and probably quite right, you end up going from most people enjoying what you do to probably half the country. So you cut your supporters in half. That’s probably not a good idea."

…. Probably not.

While that's the official line, I suspect Kim Dotcom's Dirty Politics meeting which overflowed the Auckland town hall kinda puts the kibosh on that theory, Lucy. In my experience, public meetings attract an audience…

There were a few ideas as what to do about this at the (un-named) RSA the other weekend, as we stood around waiting for the hangi…

Is it possible to amend the referendum legislation, so that a minimum turnout is required before it is binding? And assuming it's possible, is there any chance it would happen? (i.e. would National accept such an amendment?).

If we…

They Twinked® it out after Garbaldi beat the Mexicans?

With fire-poi mandated at night, and when foreign sports grounds (or gas stations) refuse to allow NZers to spin their traditional flaming poi, we can call them out for being culturally insensitive to our national traditions.

(Might need to wait 10 years…

Which are good. But if you assume we go for a Hubble image of the Pleiades then ...

-People can actually draw it, paint it, cut it out, knit it, etc.

Well no they can't draw that – but hang on – bugger all people…

There are 21 of these public meetings being held around the country which, at the current rate will attract…

Conspicuous consumption. Aniseed balls were at least as noisy, at less than half the cost.

I had a good look through all the flag suggestions at www.flag.govt.nz. It was really interesting to see the patterns (no pun, honest!) and recurring themes.

There are the flags that are really just our current flag, with some very minor variation that shows the…

This relates to the simplistic designs we seem to be restricted to. Historically flags were used so that soldiers could avoid killing other soldiers who were on the same team. They had to…

It's very pretty... can we call it the Union Black?

I'm sure the theatres swept them back up and repackaged them for later resale

It's intentionally caps-sensitive :)

That wasn't supposed to be read the way I read it. I guess.

Thanks Stephen I agree . I’m not sure the opening conversation with the American in a pub really means what anyone thinks it means. In other words patriotism…

Un-Australian's been around for a while. Stuart Littlemore's analysis on the ABC's Media Watch of the word's heavy employment by the media back at the time of the…

There's a zero missing from the end of that URL Hillary. It should be...

http://www.mfe.govt.nz/climate-change/reducing-greenhouse-gas-emissions/consultation-setting-new-zealand%E2%80%99s-post-2020

I did some reading about nationalism a few months ago. I’m sure the words “nation” and “nationalism” have been used for a…

http://www.mfe.govt.nz/climate-change/reducing-greenhouse-gas-emissions/consultation-setting-new-zealand%E2%80%99s-post-202

Quite.

Apart from the fact that the main star, Alcyone (pronounced Alckie one) is about 367.71 light years away and the light left there more that 200 years before NZ was even a sparkle in the eyes of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_%28Hawaii%29 | The Big…

And those who didn't were probably communists and teachers ...

Great stuff Marianne. Another thing to love about JC is that he values science (in reference to the story on the Hikurangi Subduction Zone last night). That immediately differentiates him from the vile Hosking.

Those wretched "It's 1990, Think Positive" stickers were everywhere in Auckland. Presumably someone was paid to go about placing them on pedestrian crossing push buttons and suchlike.

In the face of what seems yet another "icon of corporate mismanagement within New Zealand popular culture", “caring negatively” looks like a saving grace.

I don’t like a predominantly black flag. Colours in national flags are supposed to stand for something, e.g red for strength, white for peace, blue for water and naval prowess. What does black signify…

Interesting point. But in this age of easy high quality printing maybe a flag with huge gorgeous detail that can be summarized easily.

With key stars named after mythical Greek half-horse, half men :-). There’s no escaping them Greeks. Nor the Romans, if we must have Crux as our symbol. Nor Christianity, for that matter :);)

ETA: I mean imagine the furore if we chose to…

But the southern cross is all about the Southern Hemisphere. No messy history from those pesky Greeks.…

Canada
South Africa and an article about its designer
And to show "we are not alone".....
We could follow an Iraqi idea across the flag maybe......"He nui Hoani"

True, if 50 other Commonwealth countries can do it, why not us? But I think my point is somewhat made by the noticeable lack of cultural signifiers in a great many of those flags.…

It is also very Kiwi by being quite small but also quite distinct in the cosmos and…

While I am not that invested in a new flag and while I might prefer money be spent elsewhere and even if it is some weird right wing plot ...

this could be turned into something good. We could…

When I look down the list of Commonwealth members, the only other countries that still retain the Union Jack as part of their flags are Australia, Fiji…

I don't think it's that batshit crazy at all.

Kiwibog is thataway >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm behind your scenario 100% but then you also know I'm probably batshit crazy meself. Still, sounds textbook to me. Once this Govt. started to unravel, everything else has…

The more I have seen of the world, the more I think we should be proud…

Thems fighting words!

Except for me this is always The Pleiades and don't feel really New Zealand. But that is probably just me.

I can see the argument for creating a genuinely New Zealand flag that separates us from the colonisation issues. I personally don't feel that strongly about it but I recognise that others do.

I can see Bevan's point about us…

Some of us went to school to learn . Unlike Geoff Lealand , some of us even knew what the Flag looked like. welcome to…

But I’ll probably vote against change, because I don’t trust this process. I’m particularly concerned that there appear to be a lack of people with an understanding of design and a…

There's also an American scholar whose name I forget who's big on…

You've got it there.

The 12-strong Flag Consideration Panel outnumbered those in attendance.

Yeah, because that's so much worse than the frankly noxious media tendency to start using the royal we every time some sports team does…

More generally – I think the way…

Betcha someone took a chainsaw to it and made firewood.

HOW long have we known each other?

Flag waving didn’t figure, you didn’t start the day at primary school with a pledge to anything or anyone

I have a very vague memory of a proposal when I was at intermediate…

I can get that – but in reverse.

I came here from the US in 1978 and immediately got why the term 'God's Own' had stuck. Not just the beauty of the place – but the dramatic changing beauty…

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001

and forces their fist into the face of the citizens of the world needs an urgent change of planet.

I certainly wouldn’t want my…

Apparently Christchurch has bigger things to address. Who knew?

But we can't have that if we pretend it's only about the symbol, and not about what it symbolizes.

Corporate PR does this all the time, asking us to buy into the idea that a new logo = a…

* hopefully we haven't lost it in this age…

If you think the flag is unimportant then ignore it.
If you want to have other issues addressed, then by all means advocate for those. You don't…

Are we going to have pride in increasing child poverty and inequality?

Key could have made an important topic the subject of national debate.

For over twenty years I’ve been wanting to have a flag that doesn’t have the Union Jack on it, and doesn’t get confused with Australia’s.
We’re not British or Australian, so why should our flag look…

But that was post-divorce (his), pre-wedding (his son's). We're only supposed to love them when they're young and cute, I guess.

Meanwhile,…

Even that has its ups and downs. I distinctly recall being on Queen Street on a rainy afternoon in the mid-80s when a mini-motorcade…

On the contrary. I have even, on occasion, used No.8 wire for nails. By cutting into, approximately, 3-4 inch (75-100mm) lengths, No. 8 wire can be, indeed, be used as nails.…

same

This reminded me of a post friend Jos did, around the 100% Pure NZ debate, as I recall. Hopefully he won't mind my reposting it here from Capture.

Chris W suggested we could improve it to…

There's a…

That is a quintessentially Kiwi thought, IMHO.

I've had this same conversation with many Americans, but also quite a lot of Australians. The Americans are mostly just puzzled and spend the whole conversation trying to talk the country up, as if I were somehow suffering from a…

I loved how quick people were to figure this and the idea that it was a flag not a branding exercise.

But…