I may have made that word up! But it's someone who does a style of Japanese acupuncture called Toyohari. It's much gentler than Chinese acupuncture and a number of us with CFS have found it helpful.

Taking a leaf from your own book? ;-)

Really sorry to hear you're feeling crappy though. Take care of yourself. I recommend my toyoharist for keeping one step ahead of collapse...but you know that.
Hugs!
L.

What happened to the obnoxious Peter from Dundee? Did Emma get him whacked?

Yeah, I…

Study Links Chronic Fatigue to Virus Class

It's about CFS and class. It's as if Emma herself wrote it.

...Don Abel Fan Club...

interesting to note that for a Head of Operations
and Assistant Guv'nor at the Reserve Bank he has
a Master of Arts from Uni of Auckland and a PhD
in Geography from Victoria Uni...
Wonder what I could parlay my two subjects…

Crisis: One Central Bank Governor and the Global Financial Collapse

Sheesh. He's blaming David for the Global Financial Crisis? That's some serious payback :)

especially as the actual Bollard will be around that weekend, launching his own book ...

In which a Mr D Haywood of Christchurch is mentioned ...

Ha, awesome.

Which reminds me, Megan and I never did get around to setting up that Don Abel Fan Club...

especially as the actual Bollard will be around that weekend, launching his own book ...

In which a Mr D Haywood of Christchurch is mentioned ...

and flying the flag for Public Address – David Haywood is featured in a panel on Saturday the 11th called Pressed into Service chaired by no lesser personage than Philip Matthews (who is also one of the festival Trustees)

It's really just an excuse to get David Haywood to read…

Ladies, a Plate
An Afternoon Tea with Alexa Johnston and Rosemary McLeod on Thursday 9 September.

and flying the flag for Public Address…

I def get some advocacy help
In wellington places like the downtown community ministry and the people's resource center are wonderful
they have staff who are trained up to help you navigate (and if need be navigate for you) the entire winz process.

My mum acts as my…

Having watched the extra 10 minutes of Media7, Pam Crockery gives new meaning to the term 'ladies a plate'.

[I really must do some work. Emma, please, stop this now!!]

....anyone for badminton?

well if it's bad Minton yer after,
I do have some pun crockery for you...

[...me old china!]

"Oi, stop being a cock,"

Before I shuttle off this mortal toil, anyone for badminton?

[Are we there yet?]

repartee central

Yes!

Maybe we need a net ball court. Like this, only virtual.

is this what they call net ball?

I was tempted to go with pun crock, but you're obviously more generous.

Anachronism in the OK Corral.

Game, set, and match ;-)

is this what they call net ball?

It is indeed verily villi that is putting the stomach all to shot.

these embryonic folds are our intestinal servants,
this valet vilification and spin must be put to rest

insomuch as these kids are perhaps not getting a
full complement (or repertoire) of bacteria and
gut fauna that would normally chow down on,
or break down, unwanted dietary inputs?

It is indeed verily villi that is putting the stomach all to shot.

I was astounded by the number of responses (almost all north american I think) saying that they washed with bleach regularly because the toys went in the kids mouth, and they might share with other kids.

Excellent way to ensure that your children grow up ingesting trace amounts of bleach…

I was astounded by the number of responses (almost all north american I think) saying that they washed with bleach regularly because the toys went in the kids mouth, and they might share with other kids.

I wonder if there might be…

with baby 1 if they drop something you sterilize it before letting them at it again

with baby 2 you run it under hot water

with baby 3 you get the dog to lick it clean

A friend who had their first baby about 8 months ago posted on facebook…

That said, don't worry too much about dealing with WINZ (that in itself will make you sick). Mostly, the people there are pretty fair. If you strike a bad one, you can always…

Dr. Siobhan Latham
Avondale Health Centre
39 Layard Street
(cnr St Jude St)
Avondale
PO Box 19-109
Auckland
Phone:
(09) 828 2066

Dr. Roger Parr
Mt.…

From the website:

People recognise physical abuse because there is something to see. Psychological abuse is far more sinister and far more prevalent. We know that…

http://publicaddress.net/contact,upfront.sm

WINZ is a scary throught but I am now willing to take my chances with them rather than stay in this marriage.

I haven't seen a doctor about my CFS for a very long time- I gave up on the medical profession years ago.

Hi, Rosie. If you go to…

Fortunately, these days, we have a 11 month old vacuum cleaner.

You just reminded me of when our dining table was over carpet, for years 2 – 4 of the twins learning to eat. We just gave up and put a tarpaulin down. Definitely one of our more socially challenged…

I really feel for those people (of whom I know several) who get a very placid bub first time and are so thrilled that they rush into another pregnancy mere months later only to be hit by a howling horror the second time around.

Ah yes, the phenomenon that a…

Yes, we disabled the alarms on the Deepwater Horizon. Oh, like you've never hit the snooze button? http://ow.ly/2fQ6x

The linked Guardian story reports:

Williams said he discovered that the physical alarm system had been disabled a full year before the disaster.…

Have second child arriving approx 6 weeks from now and I have to say Ben you are not selling it to me.

Bit late to take it all back, for both of us! But I could mention the upsides – two are twice as beautiful and wonderful as one, that…

I think this is what is meant by natural selection. If not for a naturally occurring selective memory, the species would be doomed.

LOL . You made me take my breakfast the wrong way, and now it's on the floor. Fortunately, these days, we have a 11 month old vacuum…

with baby 1 if they drop something you sterilize it before letting them at it again

with baby 2 you run it under hot water

with baby 3 you get the dog to lick it clean

Better?

I've found that I'm surprisingly productive at odd hours. I blasted through the end of my MA thesis by getting into the office at 7am…

Nothing so far about having kids has been harder than…

a muffin made of meh

as they often are

The whirly bird catches the perm.

(Actually, I would soo much rather be in bed. I hit the snooze button so many times today, in my sleep, I was very late.)

I am an 'up at night' person, forced to start work at 5am. Which…

I've sometimes fantasised about being a in position to decree a meeting at 11pm – particularly to educate those who think a 7am "breakfast" meeting is somehow morally superior just because it happens to suit their body clock.

Lordy, I'm as useless at 11pm as at 7am. Possibly more useless.…

our first DSPS column and discussion thread contains a deal of sympathy for the 'smug early-rising fucker' point of view

Hey, deja vu

The TV ad had eager
people in pyjamas sitting up

and chirping, ‘OK Mr Brown!’
to stop it beeping, then

bounding out of bed.

I can't tell you how disturbed that makes me feel.

Fucker alarm clocks. Like the one that requires you to do a shape-sorting puzzle to switch…

Till Someone Loses an Eye

I was woken by my flatmate's
alarm. Her room lies across

from mine, and her alarm is a meditative
tape by an Indian Guru. His thickly

accented evocation of bubbling
brooks and Places

of Peace went on
and on as…

It got so bad that not one but two different employers have given me an alarm clock as my Secret Santa present. Hardy har har. Doesn't work cos I switch it off in my sleep and am completely unaware that it's even gone off.

One of my dearest friends was…

I'm "lazy" and "ill-disciplined" because I can't get out of bed at the same time as most people, and therefore tend to arrive at the office quite a few hours after some of them have begun their…

Oh, and Twitter & Wikipedia has helped me to self-diagnose myself with something else that normally I used to call "Living in Perth's timezone".

OMG! This is exactly me! To a tee!

When I was an employee I reckon I was quite majorly sleep-deprived, as I was unable to go to…

I have to be in Chch during the next one

Snap, sadly

You're never actually IN Auckland, are you?

I'm often here, unless I'm there. Sometimes I'm neither here nor there. Which usually means I'm in Wellington.

ETA. Seems like an age away that day. Is it cricket season yet?

Hey, that's not cricket!

I don't think anyone lost their pants at the cricket. Except for that brilliant streaker.

I could post that excellent picture I have of Hadyn eating a hot dog though. Except, I don't think Emma wants me to.

Hey, that's not cricket!

Heheh.

I have to be in Chch during the next one

You're never actually IN Auckland, are you?

You haven't been to many PAS gatherings, have you?

Hey, that's not cricket!

Well, no actually, and I have to be in Chch during the next one, so missing another opportunity. Wait, that sounds a bit sordid.

PAS. You scare my pants off sometimes.

PAS. We keep it in our pants?

You haven't been to many PAS gatherings, have you?

Also – on the subject of pants as a swear – pantsicles! And pantshead. As in, "that book is pantsicles" or "Ian McEwan – what a pantshead".

:)

I have to admit that my escape plan mostly consisted of never going anywhere. I was a bit of a shut…

We should just call it PAntS.

well there is a viable pant lineage that PAS embodies well... we are already part of a Pantisocratic social organisation in which all are equal in social position and responsibility...
...and the regular thread diversions are catered
for as well, with:…

So what sort of things do people do to plan ahead for fun things –

I find needing to plan ahead with the worst case in mind is sometimes a bit depressing

Not that it is even remotely comparable, but 5 years of shift work, and the last 2 years…

Of course all three of these things rely on having sufficient income to do this. I had the good luck to have enough.

Yeah.…

inaugurated a new page with a distressingly stupid comment

A Visible Panty Line? ;-)

[Where's Ian D when we need him?]

(ETA. I've done it again: inaugurated a new page with a distressingly stupid comment.)

If I had a dollar for every time I've done that, I'd be able to buy another belt so as to keep my pants up.

ETA. Snap. It is really a statistical improbability that all three…

ETA:

I've done it again: inaugurated a new page with a distressingly stupid comment.

No, no, that's *my* specialty. (It could be because 97% of my comments are distressingly stupid, so it's a…

(ETA. I've done it again: inaugurated a new page with a distressingly stupid comment.)

Stopping now.

I need to plan days carefully to make sure that I'm never more than about two hours away from food, just in case

Who are you, Shackleton? I'm pretty sure I would never want to find myself more than two hours away from food regardless of my hypoglycaemia.

PAS: better…

So what sort of things do people do to plan ahead for fun things –

I find needing to plan ahead with the worst case in mind is sometimes a bit depressing

Managing my hypoglycaemia drives me batshit sometimes. Yes, there are muesli bars in my handbag. Yes, I need…

Hope the holiday goes well Sue.

today my shiny new collapsible walking cane arrived! I'm going on holiday and i do want to see more things than a hotel room, so a cane is essential.

Have a fantastic trip, Sue, I hope you have heaps of energy, and barely have to use your cane at all,…

So what sort of things do people do to plan ahead for fun things

Along with the pants thing, my counsellor told me to buy more pairs of socks so that I wouldn't be derailed in the mornings by not being able to find clean socks. It's sort of ridiculous,…

Pants are so pants.

in fact i often use pants as my swear word of choice

So what sort of things do people do to plan ahead for fun things –

I find needing to plan ahead with the worst case in mind is sometimes a bit…

I have a pretty good record with pants, it's the belts that let me down. It's that change over thing, where you only have one belt, but many pants.

Damian may scoff at the idea of wearing a skirt over pants, but when my pants puddled around my ankles in…

Lucky we're not in Australia.

Doesn't Dyan's paragraphs directly above indicate that she doesn't think that it proves anything, just that it's interesting?

As do, to my reading, the last couple of sentences of the text she quoted. But yes, I think that's enough of this now.

but then i always have to check and see if i am wearing my glasses

Key brain-fog moments for me: working out that the reason my vision was fogging up was because I was still wearing my glasses, in the shower.

Also, yes, what Sue said.

You presented a large quote from a medical journal paper that studied an observation of 3 cases. You presented it in such a way as to imply it proved something. That is not the case.

Doesn't Dyan's paragraphs directly above indicate that she doesn't think that it proves anything, just…

What's the relevance of "not science"

You presented a large quote from a medical journal paper that studied an observation of 3 cases. You presented it in such a way as to imply it proved something. That is not the case. It is simply an observation of 3 cases. Medical…

lot of work in this field is being done in Canada.

Intravenously Administered Vitamin C as Cancer Therapy

Intravenously administered vitamin C as cancer therapy: three cases

n= 3!!

not science

I would have incredibly vivid dreams and be unable to tell whether they were real or not. Not the end of the world when I dreamt I'd had a conversation with someone about something…

Sue, your jewellery is beautiful – it makes me smile as well. In general (this goes for Emma, too) I'm just wildly impressed that the creative spirit is so willing when the flesh is weak. Brava.

I agree!

And it isn't just the creative spirit that is valuable to me…

Because that is what Lucy pointed out, no study has shown that high doses of Vitamin C, delivered orally do anything for any disease including cancer

The method of delivery was not mentioned in Lucy's or my statements, but in the field of oncological research "high dose vitamin C" means…

http://www.demonoid.com/rss/users/gpateire.xml

I now tell everyone my spelling and grammar has cfs as well ;)

Because I would realise I couldn't really remember how I'd gotten myself to where I was at that point in the day, and developed a bit of a…

The importance of that is that it changes the…

The problem with diagnosing CF is that "chronic fatigue" is a symptom of many different underlying conditions. Just because the cause of that underlying condition hasn't been identified certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist – it just means it hasn't been found.

When I had CFS thinking about this just…

Er, Lucy, you want to revisit this statement?

I'm not Lucy (she's prettier) but I'll comment.

Cell lines are not humans. Just because you can have an effect in cell cultures where the compound you are playing with is in direct contact with the cells does not mean it has…

I'm intrigued.

I used to do CBT because I thought was paying me very well for a job straight out of uni, until it pretty much destroyed my wrists for a while – and they said it never happened and if I told anyone about it I'd never get hired…

the kind that I used to be paid for.

I'm intrigued.

Teaching you "to assess [your] thoughts more objectively" is pretty much exactly what CBT is.

Well, one form of CBT anyway. The kind that I've paid for, not the kind that I used to be paid for.

I'm not entirely sure what I did was CBT, but it may have been

Probably was. Teaching you "to assess [your] thoughts more objectively" is pretty much exactly what CBT is.

Also, exhaustion and brain-fog does not lead to clear decisivie defiant thinking.

I remember having many discussions with my partner where he was totally bamboozled by my thinking processes and how I had got from here to there. Looking back now I can see it was the effect of…

Also, exhaustion and brain-fog does not lead to clear decisivie defiant thinking.

Of course. And I can see how you'd end up being all "but this was supposed to work. "

I guess what I meant was, could you (all of you, not just Emma) not beat yourselves up please?…

I've been thinking about this overnight, and I say this with all the love in the word, but you realise that's ridiculous, right, Emma? You're blaming yourself that things don't work for you.

Dude, it's not a level playing field. If a medical professional tells me that a particular therapy…

In general (this goes for Emma, too) I'm just wildly impressed that the creative spirit is so willing when the flesh is weak.

Yeah, I was reading, thinking "being generally awesome must help too, right?"

But also... look, every time you try a pet therapy and it fails, it's like…

- crafting, making things with my hands makes me smile.

Sue, your jewellery is beautiful – it makes me smile as well. In general (this goes for Emma, too) I'm just wildly impressed that the creative spirit is so willing when the flesh is weak. Brava.

- toyohari a Japanese acupuncture or acupressure. Any other acupuncture or massage makes me worse as it overwhelms my body

My acupuncture was also Japanese, it's much gentler than Chinese. It made a huge difference to my pain levels, which I was especially grateful for because I'm very reluctant to…

– b12 shots twice a week

– efamol marine (but i can't afford it) make a huge difference

– toyohari a Japanese acupuncture or acupressure. Any other acupuncture or massage makes me worse as it overwhelms my body

– My Mum! I was diagnosed at 19 suspect…

It's partly a result of having had to argue my case so many times over the course of my illness.…

So everyone, just think positive thoughts, see your illness as a gift and think of yourself as a survivor, not a victim.

Kidding. Kidding above here.

LOL.

Hmmm ... been back through the thread, and ... Lilith, I do think you jumped on Dyan a bit hard, and perhaps misunderstood what she was saying, which was addressed to the forum I think.

Thanks, Russell – I am posting stuff more in the vein of "gosh this is…

Your debut post here was brilliant; you write well, and you had a story to…

And bearing in mind that correlation isn't causation, and also what helps one person may be useless for another.…

Sound enough, but smart people will usually see them as weasel words for "I advise".

The thing is though that I'm really not saying "I advise" I'm genuinely saying "here's some stuff I know, use it how you will". I'd also like to point out that, while earlier in the…

Saying "some people find X helpful" or "have you considered Y" or "there's a study which suggests Z" is far less likely to backfire horribly

Sound enough, but smart people will usually see them as weasel words for "I advise". It's pretty hard not to shit some people off if…

But if you just turn that wheel there half a turn clockwise ....

"No, that one. Half a turn. No, not like that... fuck it, get out of the way."

I, on the other hand, have given Megan about a metric fucktonne of advice. Though it was mostly 'have a hot bath, a glass of wine and some chocolate'.

Actually, I believe we decided you are the Boss Of Me.

Seriously, would you all just listen to me for a second and NOT TELL ME HOW TO FIX THINGS?

But if you just turn that wheel there half a turn clockwise ....

I am tempted to go back through months worth of emails to Emma to see of I have ever given her any advice. But I am a little scared to.

I, on the other hand, have given Megan about a metric fucktonne of advice. Though it was mostly 'have a…

I am tempted to go back through months worth of emails to Emma to see of I have ever given her any advice. But I am a little scared to.

Having said that, my…

And I agree with Isabel, and Deborah, and BookieMonster too ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIxkqoNi8I4

The word "generalising" was meant to be a clue #sheesh

Yeah, that's why I was (mostly) mocking.

** If you get away with that last comment Sacha, I'm officially sulking.

I was going to address it. But...I'm tired. And hormonal. Seriously, would you all just listen to me for a second and NOT TELL ME HOW TO FIX THINGS?

Actually, I have had a little bit of…

Carry on.

Hmm, Megan responded, so back goes the later bit.

** If you get away with that last comment Sacha, I'm officially Sulking.

Has anyone who is genuinely upset about something ever felt better for someone saying to them "chillax"?

I think the only appropriate response to somebody who says "chillax", regardless of the circumstances, is a punch in the solar plexus surely?

Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping…

I think I'm genetically programmed to advise

Generalising, it's how we blokes are inclined to respond. Sometimes very useful, other times the other person just wants to feel heard and understood. Especially when they're a woman.

I think as in most things it can be boiled down to "try not to be a dick".

Which is something a lot of people (including me) could benefit from remembering.

Saying, "You should try ...

So is there a difference between saying "you should try..." and asking "Have you tried ...?"

I know I'm trying to justify my need (see there I admit it) to advise. But also part of it is my innate/inept curiosity. One of the things I…

So it's not as simple as "don't offer advice" I would suggest.

In a one on one situation, where someone says 'god my OOS is killing me, and I've tried everything and nothing does a damn thing!' Isn't that pretty much an opening for 'I've got this amazing Osteopath, who…

Er... my partner suffered from very debilitating OOS. She had seen all manners of physiotherapists until a friend suggested she try this particular osteopath she was seeing, and she did and boy did that help. So it's not as simple as "don't offer advice" I would suggest.

I agree. You…

Short version. Don't offer advice. Not even if you mean well. Just don't do it.

Er... my partner suffered from very debilitating OOS. She had seen all manners of physiotherapists until a friend suggested she try this particular osteopath she was seeing, and she did and boy did that help.…

Just goes to show. I'm the biggest pessimist out ...

Forget about the lambs' shanks. (I was up at 12 and 4 feeding a lamb, dammit)
It's time for a Pessimism Show-Down! :) (I don't think the lamb is gonna make it)

(Yes, I recognise the irony in giving advice…

Don't offer advice. Not even if you mean well. Just don't do it. Especially if you have never had to cope with the condition yourself.

You have no idea how much stress it causes me to follow that advice :). I think I'm genetically programmed to advise :). Just slap…

It helps when a patient can take positive action.…

The thing is, people who have a chronic condition are most likely experts in the condition…

After you've heard x number of random acquaintances/complete strangers suggest positive thinking/exercise/anti-depressants/patent remedy/exorcism/drinking own urine*, your patience for receiving advice gets pretty short.

My patience only gets short when they won't just leave it at that if you decide not to try it, and go on about it every time…

But upthread it did really sound…

No CFS in the genealogical line that I know, but lots of allergies. I wonder if that's linked?

If it is immune system linked then there will certainly be a genetic component. But the genetics of the immune system is far from straightforward so it won't be a simple relationship.…