Yeah, I know a couple of the women who were asked, and there's various reasons they couldn't. Deborah has written about hers.

No. It's Trotter. Genetic impossibility.

Don't be silly. There's a delightful doo-dad on the mouse called a scroll wheel, and I'll use it if you're being tiresomely verbose.

Pitch a "making of" doco to Brian – seems the behind the scenes of this ep would have been great telly

Yup, you can always skip the long posts with a single eye movement, if it burns.

Yes I still do. ;-)

Thoughtful long worthwhile post vs 140 character drivel ... such a hard choice really.

Seriously I can read and I'm happy to read your posts any time whatever length you feel you need. Besides I'm not sure I saw an "appropriate post length" sign anywhere.

Do you realise how difficult it is NOT to make a smutty joke in response to that sentence? Huh? Do you?

(Megan, I too am down with awesome long posts.)

TMAINUI.

I gather he had a swift couple of glasses of wine afterwards too :-)

Lolz. That doesn't seem to constrain anyone else :-)

+1. Go long, Megan C. Or link off to your own blog if you want to go essay length.

I also encourage you to go for it.

I know that Trotter is not Mr Popular around these parts but I did appreciate him challenging Deborah Coddington on her facile notion of 'objective' journalism and her belief that the world-views of journalists are not already…

OK, so what do we do…

Well, my view is that as soon as we start talking about the complex stuff, we…

I don't know if speculation would be particularly useful, but as a pure hypothetical let's say that Victoria was planning to close its classics department. Now, if I was the Head of Classics at Auckland, I may have all kinds of salient and…

Radom Access Memoir.

what do you reckon that could be?

I'll take your word for that, because you're in a better position to know. But there's also all kinds of reasons why many academics are pretty gun-shy about doing interviews they think (fairly or not) is going to end up being edited down to a…

Indeed, some of them were simply…

I was surprised. Indeed, it was a surprising show. Hannah's contribution differed markedly from what she'd said to our researcher.

Could Trotter try not being a man-tronising douche-bag? I'm sure those invertebrate blue-stockings really welcomed Trotter restraining the urge to burn his pappy pants, but could we do the women concerned the…

I'd like to hear more about that

Trotter was as surprised as you are, Hilary.

But could they get anybody with a strong personal commitment to the teaching of Women’s Studies to appear on…

Emma, you have glorious tits,

How old? When you think the tattoo you got when you were 18 needs to be put away.......

Can I just pop in here to catch up,I know,but to express in my simple terms,
It is NEVER too old to have glorious tits or get…

*sigh* Well, it's all the fault of the evil right-wing cabal innit? Somehow, I find it rather implausible that the groves of academe were wilted by the winds…

One of my family, bloke, spent some years as a stay-at-home-dad: made very good sense, fiscally & otherwise to do so. He didnt get any borax poked at him (not least because he’s a wonderful human being, as well as being a quite wellknown…

Closer to home, the way forward faces the obstacle of the Whaddarya Mentality (TM), which erroneously regards stay-at-home dads as having a loser or poofter stigma. If…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43qB9FpfCR8

I was going to offer a bit of an admonition thing about us being unkind to each other, but things seem to be working out. Meanwhile, here’s Sarah Daniell’s awesome interview with John Campell about being the only guy in the village at VUW gender studies:

What a fantastic interview!…

Probably because you love Notorious BIG as well as Missy Elliot. Basically, you're…

ETA Noting that even in general terms, I think her argument may still be…

But I knew I would cause offence by expressing a point of view not only different to Emma's but one that I would call more 'radical.'

Sally, can you honestly not see that it isn't your point of view which has offended people, but the way you have gone about…

Actually, the more I look at it the more I wonder if anyone’s told Tracey Barnett that Darth George is trolling with her by-line.

Sure, it’s a laugh, if real life gave us the flipside. If every time you see an image of a woman in…

Can I have them? I'm totally not cured.

OH MY GOD. I am cured. I am throwing out allof my dresses right now.

Maybe one? Joan Rivers technically is going to be "at the Oscars".

@Jackie this time (I hope I've got the right one this time anyway!) I love that attitude, I really do – and I do try…

every time you see an image of a woman in a dress tight enough that her bought breasts slap against her chin (just count them at the Oscars)

None. What do I win? Demonstrating the "respect for women" she wants to see, obviously.

Oh, fucking hell Tracy – does the New Zealand Herald employ any gay men who’ll take you on a field trip to K Road tonight? “Man-ho” is neither a fox hunting rally or one of the jewels…

Whoops – sorry Jacqui, I typed Jacqui, but meant Jackie, hopefully context cleared it up mostly!

Have missed most of subsequent discussion as I've been felled by horrendous throat infection – but I find…

And yes now I'm just being silly

Thou shalt not invoke the He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named of Public Address System threads. Ever. No no no.

Can I just say I'm curious as to what the test entails? Do you need to know the lyrics?

ZOOMG Ponies!

[ETA] See, Danielle, that's why I don't like labels, to answer your question from some time ago. Everyone has their own perception of what the labels mean and they take their perceptions as shorthand for who the people are and what they think (you know, like "copyright reformers"…

Yeah sorry that wasn't the intent at all. Must not write fast when grumpy.

Every bit helps. And it seems to me that people will be er feminist (see no quotes Danielle) about some things in their lives…

Not treating women like shit – and being mindful of how I perpetuate and exploit my own privilege, and not just that which comes from my penis…

YouTube should introduce a 'Dicky Diction' button.

It’s also Derailing for Dummies 101: Why aren’t you talking about real issues? (Also, Chris Trotter is rather of dealing these related cards out to uppity bourgeois “identity politics” obsessed feminists: [[http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#false|your false…

His Italian diction is even worse than Lesley Gore's, which is saying something.

Well, what started me on this whole thing were the Beatles' German singles, so I challenge you to find shittier diction than theirs (and I don't even *speak* German).

*I just reread that sentence and: stop it.

Sorry Danielle didn’t mean it come out that way, was just reacting to all the “your not the right kind of…

Better, feminism is only about things that traditionally men have rated as important – you know, politics, economics, none of that girly "lifestyle" stuff that actually fills more of most people's…

Sharing the love – her performance from the cosy Webstock speakers' dinner (captured by Kristina Halvorson):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mxm25zzgU

You clearly haven't listened to Bowie's "Ragazzo solo, ragazza sola". His Italian diction is even worse than Lesley Gore's, which is saying something.

(Then again, in those days we had Italian singers putting on a fake…

(Dear Bart: please do not make me stabby by putting "feminists" in scare quotes and telling us we have to concentrate on what you consider to be more important, because I was feeling very happy about the prospect of a Swedish…

I will buy you a pony Lilith! Just let me know which server you play on.

ooo er

sorry couldn't help myself

Do you have the Swedish version?

ETA: Found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_sRhbV6__A

Most excellent. And, most welcome.

uh uh, as we've all made it clear I get to call myself whatever I like and you owe me the courtesy of honouring that.

This seems borderline illegal under current sex-discrimination law.

Of course it's borderline illegal! But it all gets hidden under…

That's actually for *me*, because I collect other-language versions of well-known pop songs! (My favourite being: "oh mickey ¿cómo estás? ¿cómo estás? me gustas más hey mickey!")

Mitchell is in New Zealand? Time to put on the stalking shoes, and show those tweenie Twi-twits how horny psychotic fandom is done… He's no Russell Tovey (ears too small, for a start) but he'll do in a pinch.

or the internet will burn New Zealand with angry geek fire.

Ha, not while Aidan Turner's here filming The Hobbit. That could be an ugly, ugly geek war.

Okay? Not scary joy, appropriate joy, mind.
It's all good. Just felt a little lightness wouldn't go astray. My self-deprecating humour needs to find the balance between humour and actual deprecation.

I don’t even own any, FTR. You are scaring me a little bit too, just so you know. ;-)

Just to sum up, I think this is about as apposite as I could find. In relation to this thread, BTW, not speedos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWCMhL5qxlE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

ETA:…

That she does – though, honestly, I always like the theory of the Dresden Dolls more than the practice. Neil Gaiman is a soppy old bastard who really…

Aw, go on! Wear them!

That's a t-shirt. With John's mug shot on it glaring into the auto-cue.

PS. I meant that in a good way.

Yes, hopefully. But I am wondering what on earth to wear at the Pot Luck tomorrow. Speedos are definitely out, but maybe I need to consider a MBOFO top. Or there's the vertical stripes with the collar up combo, which always goes down…

please tell me I'm confused and wrong
PLEASE

I was going to offer a bit of an admonition thing about us being unkind to each other, but things seem to be working out. Meanwhile, here's Sarah Daniell's awesome interview with John Campell about being the only guy in the village at VUW gender studies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FTORvJdYgo&sns=tw

Also, Amanda…

Hang in there. I'm leaning on Russell to drum up some funding for a PAS Feminist Forklift Workshop (come as you are, naturally).

I'm mentally editing it (warp and weft are inextricable by definition; the shorter the sentence the better the rhythm). But glad it struck home!

You put a bison in your backyard, you ain't gonna have a trampoline long. Those things are huge.

This is not "lifestyle feminism": it's my one and only life, with feminism and…

My confidence to dress as I please is precious, and I think it's feminist, and I'm not going to put it away in a hurry.

You’ve also implied that I am not an activist. That my feminism is waffly crap, and I don’t ‘do anything’.

My feminism actually *is* waffly crap. What's more, I buy girly shit all the time and I can't even drive a forklift. I have no idea why Sally thinks I'm…

I'm onto you. You're just after the fresh buffalo milk for your stringy cheese.

I guess it will feel that way if you don't care to read the comments and consider…

Damn! No pony.

Nor my Masters in political science.

Sally. I challenge you to find anywhere I have focussed anger on you, or any other feminist. Challenged yes, vehemently disagreed with, sure. But anger? No.

On the other hand,…

Google gets me a pony?! With sparkles?! It was in the original blog post:

There is one thing I do know, though, in my cloud of ignorance…

Emma if it wasn't you who who said you entered a WTC and had lots of fun, my apologies. Megan? I haven't got the energy to go that far back in the thread. But I didn't assume fun was had, the person said they had fun.

I have been back…

It was. Sorry, I had no idea looking back…

Not to mention Emma's work generally and this very blog post we're commenting…

I guess…

For me, it's the transformation of society as part of a wider movement for social justice (which for me, again, would include democratic socialism) to the extent that gender equality is both consistently upheld as a "first principle" of the state and…

In some circumstances, equality is relatively easy to define: Pay equality is a simple enough concept, especially for office jobs – you do the same work, you…

What hit me from Mill was, having discussed vile tyrannies of all kinds, particularly slavery, he said:
"How different are these cases from that of the power of men over women!.....The clodhopper exercises, or is to exercise, his share of the power equally with the highest…

I remember feeling quite depressed reading the work of 19th century feminist theorists, just beacuse they seemed to be saying much the same things, and fighting much the same battles, as we have been in the last few decades.

At the time I do recall it gaining traction, but to claim I remember the substantive parts after 24 years without re-reading it, which I haven’t, would be overstating it…

I think…

I remember that.

ETA: 'her' being Christine de Pizan.

If all men are born free, how is it that all Women are born slaves? as they must be if the being subject to the inconstant, uncertain, unknown, arbitrary Will of Men, be the perfect Condition of Slavery? and if the Essence of Freedom consists,…

Word. I suspect people crowding to cite old Christine isn't exactly a very common occurrence.

What, no love for my homie Christine de Pizan (1365-1430)?

ETA: [Removed unseemly outburst] Yes, lots of love…

What, no love for my homie Christine de Pizan (1365-1430)?

inaction (words are action, of course) kind of implies consent with the way things are and that kind of disqualifies you from being able to claim to your friends – when it suits you – that you are a feminist

I usually do my friends the courtesy of believing them…

Actually, it was 1861, published 1869, according to wikipedia. And if you want to look at first-wave feminist treatises, it's hard to go past Mary Wollstonecraft's [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Vindication_of_the_Rights_of_Woman| __A…

Thanks for this link, Megan M.…

I suspect the topology is more complicated and may involve string theory...

I'm clearly getting to hot to think seriously.

Seems so, it doesn't mean secrets to me. It's just the state Plato's Socrates dragged his victims into, rather like confusion, a loss of confidence in one's own definitions, and uncertainty about…

There should totally be a "MacGyver feminist" label.

[spelling of show edited after severe off line reprimand]

It would be easier to have the discussion with hand waving and wine.

Well, Megan and I just got given free wine with lunch (and any assumptions about why that was arrived at without asking us would be Just Plain Wrong, possibly with a sprinkling of 'insulting') so... yeah.

I've…

I find if you say it slowly with punctuation, it sums up about where I am right now quite nicely.

e, ir, ô! n, e... i, a?

To the music of From Scratch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm8Ghgturfk&feature=related

I think that word means something different to you than to me. I'm not trying to hide anything.

Or really, just the wine and whatever comes up with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r_JnGUexsw

I'm sorry – how is that a problem? They may all mean different things, but in applying the label to themselves they're indicating…

Moi????

Yeah of course it is. Hence the doubt I have about it. But my problem still stands, when you say you're a feminist you mean something different from when Deborah says she is a feminist and when Jacqui says ...

Now if you each take the time to…

I know it's not a direct analogy, but I always die a little inside every time I see "queer" used as a shorthand for 'all not heteronormative people' --…

I think (with the proviso that I can and will be wrong at times) that the label no longer works properly

I don't want to be an asshole here Bart, but... isn't it a bit presumptuous to say that a group you're not a part of isn't defining itself appropriately?

By this same token I'm a picture framer. Haven't framed a picture, as a job, for 22 years. But I can still frame pictures. What's my point? I'm not a boiler maker. ;-)

that was the whole quote Danielle

Yeah, but it's not as if you said in that post 'it's not a label that works FOR ME'. You said it seemed to you that it 'no longer functions'. In general. If you didn't mean that, then hooray.

It seems to me...

that was the whole quote Danielle :P.

Because this is true I'll spend a moment expanding on why I get frustrated with labels.

The point at which it becomes an issue for me is when the label gets too big. Russell already said "but…

I wouldn't be so sure, given that in the early hours of this thread Emma herself tweeted this.

feminist is a label that no longer functions

Yeah, I... kind of have a wee bit of a problem with being told that.

In some instances I think labeling them can equally restrict them.

Real life example. One of my daughters is constantly called a 'tomboy'. In my opinion this pre supposes a number of things which are not always helpful.

1) She…

No, but it does save time. Beating around the bush can also be a very annoying habit, can be used to wreck debate too.

What’s wrong with having ideas and opinions and experiences and thoughts without having a label?

Labels are not…

I tend to think that it's because feminist, as a label, "can be affirming and also say true things about who you are" that it is a term whose definition people…

When others arbitrarily apply them on your behalf, often when they don’t really know ‘you’, in Bart’s…

Afterwards I spoke to Greer to get her thoughts on it all. "Feminism?" she queried. "Oh it's such an old-fashioned word anyway."

Agreed. And to be fair I use labels any time I try and describe myself.

But it seems to me from the discussions I have seen that feminist is a label that no longer functions.

As soon…

Sometimes it's about making a stand. I consider myself pro-feminist and a socialist. I could fudge or overcomplicate either position so that people won't pigeonhole me or…

Do you really need to be labelled Ben? What’s wrong with having ideas and opinions and experiences and thoughts without having a label?

Hi I’m Bart, if you want to know and understand what I think…

Yezbut, it also seems more than that sometimes. On my part it signals ‘shit you just expressed my point of view way better than I could’. On these occasions I’ve decided not to try and be cleverer or somehow more…

If only ‘Not-being-a-douchebag-to-and-about-the-vagina-bearing-half-of-the-human-race-ism’ would trip of the tongue a little easier, a lot of time and energy would be spared from endless semantic games of Who's A Real Feminist Bingo.

Think of it as a manual "Like" button, I guess

Or :Fe man ist. Like? :)

It's pretty clear even in the broadest sense that it doesn't include everyone. Chauvinists will often happily disavow the word. Men from societies with awful treatment of women actively suppress the idea.…

Yeah, at the risk of repeating myself, I have a word. Feminist.

And at the risk of repeating myself again (because I have linked to it all over the internet), I…