So if it is MMP or FPP…

I dunno how many times I've said 'affect is the verb, effect is the noun'. Except in this case, where I do mean 'effect'

Hmmm. As a sometime psychologist but also somtime grammar teacher, I too often have to use affect as a noun (as steven illustrates). And of course…

Try Te Tai Tonga, wherein I vote. Driving from one end to the other is not a possibility (unless it's an extremely seaworth motor vehicle...)

However, what I like most about Emma's post is this sentence
the inability to actually effect anything
where either effect or affect works.

Cheers, James. In my secret identity I do spend a bit of time explaining grammar to idi... erm, grammatically-challenged people, and I dunno how many times I've…

However, what I like most about…

* Threshold of 4% not 5%.

* If your party wins 1 electorate and less…

I would like one of the STV proponents to explain how it would be FUNCTIONALLY any different from FPP : i.e. you would get an absolute majority for National or Labour every time.

No, you wouldn't. STV is proportional (assuming the electorates are reasonably-sized). You're not confusing STV with preferential…

From my Olympian height of "overseas", MMP looks like a best-of-breed version of parliamentary democracy. I…

Plus, it would be genuinely good to brag about having the ALCP in parliament on international forums, even if they can't actually get more sensible laws on the books.

Indeed. Another bonus would be the apoplexy it would induce in prohibitionists like Anderton, Peters, Dunne, and Blue.

Interesting that Dunne…

Though they should feel free to improve it. That threshold does keep…

Like an awful lot of people my first experience of voting was as a leftie student in Gerry Brownlee's very safe electorate.

Until we moved, I absentee-balloted for Aoraki (except I don't think it was called that then, it may have been South Canterbury) because it wasn't entirely futile.

Wigram…

Should get a woman MP but she is a bit flakey on the dangers of water, cute looking though so that's all right

Not quite. Anderton's majority was 8548. He would only need to lose half of that, plus one (4275 votes), to the second-placed candidate, to be unseated.

You are of course absolutely right. Half his majority not half his vote. The keys are so close together.

I do idly wonder how…

The indicative referendum was between FPP, MMP, the Single Transferable Vote (STV), Supplementary Member (SM) or Preferential Vote (PV), but blowed if I can remeber the finer points of the latter two.

SM: MMP, but with the party vote only affecting the proportionality of the list seats, rather than the…

See the size of the swing it would take to unseat Anderton? He'd have to lose half his vote, all to one candidate.

Not quite. Anderton's majority was 8548. He would only need to lose half of that, plus one (4275 votes), to the second-placed candidate, to be unseated.

It…

but I quite like not having Brian Tamaki or Kyle Chapman as MPs.

(ok, I know they got nowhere near 0.8%, but that may be because people knew they had no chance and didn't waste their votes).

Well, Brian Tamaki wasn't running so that counts him out, but in 2005…

It's a bias in favour of a one-person-party that has support in a concentrated area (Dunne, Anderton) over a genuine national party like the Greens.

Ah, see, I also think this is a feature. So if a party or a person has a concentration of support in one geographical area…

What's it supposed to do? Apart from stop independents standing for electorate seats and give people's votes to parties they don't support?

It's a bias in favour of a one-person-party that has support in a concentrated area (Dunne, Anderton) over a genuine national party like the Greens. Ok, this would…

I'd certainly stick with MMP- not perfect, but working...even with the Winnie Factor...waaaay better than FPTP

Agree, but if there's a referendum I demand to be allowed to vote for HTTP.

Marc Alexander

OMG. What is *wrong* with the place. Is SW Christchurch some kind of wierd fundamentalist NZ version of Kabul? Emma, do you have to wear a full chador when outside, or does a headscarf suffice?

Here's a comparison between FPP, MMP and STV (which many proportionality advocates preferred), although, as I said above,…

"If I lived in Wigram, I'd be wondering what to do with my electorate vote – Labour, probably, but would the National candidate have a better chance of unseating Anderton?"

Bog, I meant to reply to that.

Look at this. See the size of the swing it would take to…

That is Marc (Cook me some eggs) Alexander ex-United Future.

His claim to fame is having a slap-dash-mex-cross-over resturant before…

MMP while fairer does give parties that got under 5% more power that the loosing party that 35%-40% of the voters supported

Hardly. it gives them exactly as much power as they can negotiate for. And if National bothered negotiating, rather than pouting and whining and stamping its foot whenever…

MMP. I like our messy dictatorship, even if it is difficult to describe to Australians.

I would have thought that "being difficult to explain to Australians" would be an advantage of the system, if anything.

I like our messy dictatorship

Wow, that's some verbal slip-up. I was intending to say democracy, and had just chucked the comparison with executive dictatorship...

Clearly, more coffee is in order.

However I'd suggest in order of radicalism:
– Removing the dual vote, so that a voter's party vote went to the party of their electorate choice.

I know people have had a go at this idea before, but I do think it's all drawback and no advantage. What's it supposed…

So, if National win the election, proceed with their promise to hold a referendum on MMP (and assuming FFP would no longer pass muster), what would you folks vote for..?

MMP. I like our messy dictatorship, even if it is difficult to describe to Australians.

what would you folks vote for..?

Firstly, I think it's more or less a fair system and shouldn't be messed with. Especially by a party that really wants to entrench itself by going back to FPP and stealing the Maori seats to boot.

However I'd suggest in order of radicalism:…

If I lived in Wigram, I'd be wondering what to do with my electorate vote – Labour, probably, but would the National candidate have a better…

I'd stay with MMP myself: Not perfect but simple to explain compared to other systems (as I've been paid to…

And getting his daughter to front it was so laughably transparent.

I was never quite sure how that was supposed to work. I guess they thought they had issues with being a bit 'rich white man' and Shirtcliffe's associations with big business weren't going down too well. So they got…

if the referendum was decided using FPP by electorates, then MMP won 70/97(?) seats. Pwnd !

I didnt recall that myself.... but it is indeed GOLD. :)