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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Up Front: Good Counsel</title>
		<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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			<copyright>Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address</copyright>
			

		
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				<title>wendyf</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=291073#post291073</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=291073#post291073</guid>
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						The I'm &ndash; not &ndash; worthies. You've nailed it Isobel. Exactly.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 01 Aug 2013 10:47:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jackie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=291009#post291009</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=291009#post291009</guid>
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						Tautoko and much aroha, Wendy.
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				<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:54:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Peter Martin</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=291002#post291002</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=291002#post291002</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						So having just caught the depression/anxiety train...I find myself in the hands of my most wonderful GP. I am happy to take my daily Fluox and CBT will begin as it's offered through the PHO . I am also going to do the <a href="http://www.beatingtheblues.co.nz/about-beating-the-blues.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">cCBT</a> which is free to us all.…
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				<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:30:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290992#post290992</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290992#post290992</guid>
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						<p><q> The more stories, the better.</q></p><p>+1 It really does help to know that you are not the only one feeling like this.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:09:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290987#post290987</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290987#post290987</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Thank you for telling your story, wendyf.  The more stories, the better.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:56:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle MacDonald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290985#post290985</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290985#post290985</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>You're absolutely right.  The key factor for a successful treatment outcome, that has been shown in many different studies, is the quality of the relationship between the therapist and client, i.e. the match.  </p><p>This is more important that the profession, the model of therapy or any other factor by a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 22:39:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290979#post290979</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290979#post290979</guid>
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						<p><q>I wonder if there would be an increase in uptake if counselling was (re) offered after a couple of months of medication.</q></p><p>That is a really interesting query Isabel-<br />Anybody know any stats for this?<br />All I know from family experience, that it SO much easier for the 2nd person…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:34:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Isabel Hitchings</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290973#post290973</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290973#post290973</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						For me, initially, drugs were far easier to accept than counselling would have been because I had a bad case of the I'm-not-worthies. A 15 minute doctor's appointment and a packet of pills was the outer limit of the amount of care I felt I deserved.  I would have felt…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:30:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290966#post290966</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290966#post290966</guid>
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						<p><q>I’ve known people to totally reject counselling as an appropriate treatment for their issues, but accept that SSRIs treat a chemical imbalance, which is less stigmatised than being mentally unwell. </q></p><p>Being on antidepressants is much easier to hide than having to take time off for lengthy counselling appointments, so it…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:00:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>B Jones</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290959#post290959</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290959#post290959</guid>
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						<q>There is a sick culture is NZ that revolves around being tough mentally. It is strongest in men but is there in women as well. That culture dismisses the skills of counsellors, it dismisses their value and it does so because to acknowledge their contribution would be to acknowledge a…</q>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:42:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>wendyf</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290957#post290957</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290957#post290957</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Thanks to Judith &ndash; thanks to all of you. I'm finding it hard to write anything at all here &ndash; memories are tossing around in my head, and in my gut. Pills yes. I'm having Citalopram which is working well for me, and I'll stay with it. But what has…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:36:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Isabel Hitchings</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290956#post290956</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290956#post290956</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						It's been around 15 years since I was treated for depression. I no longer recall if counselling wasn't offered or just wasn't offered assertively or frequently enough to make it through the fog. Either way I didn't get any sort of talk therapy for a depressive episode that was, in…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:35:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290950#post290950</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290950#post290950</guid>
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						<p><q>the nocebo effect is described in the second of the two Goldacre links above</q></p><p>I should have clicked through :(.</p><p>But I'll offer <a href="http://www.the-scientist.com//?articles.view/articleNo/36126/title/Worried-Sick/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this article</a> in compensation, where unlike the placebo effect people have found at least one biochemical mechanism for the nocebo effect.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:44:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290948#post290948</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290948#post290948</guid>
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						<p>Yep; the nocebo effect is described in the second of the two Goldacre links above, and a 5-minute version is in this Nerdstock speech.<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Q3jZw4FGs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Q3jZw4FGs</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:35:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290946#post290946</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290946#post290946</guid>
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						<p><q> the nature of the placebo effect</q></p><p>It is a profoundly interesting effect. It's possible that talking therapy might just in fact be a very very good placebo effect &ndash; which would kind of make it a really good treatment really.</p><p>BTW there is also something called the nocebo effect -…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:30:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle MacDonald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290945#post290945</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290945#post290945</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Of course lets not forget talking therapy has very few, if any side effects. And is recommended by NICE ahead of medication for that, amongst other reasons.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:28:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290942#post290942</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290942#post290942</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Way back in 2008, Ben Goldacre wrote quite a balanced <a href="http://www.badscience.net/2008/02/619/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">article</a> about the results of tests of antidepressants (not just SSRIs) against placebo, and the media misreporting of same as “proof” that SSRIs don’t work. As Goldacre points out, antidepressants <em>do</em> work, better than placebo – <em>but</em> their level of…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:17:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290941#post290941</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290941#post290941</guid>
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						<p><q>This meta-analysis of all the drug company data on 6 of the 7 SSRIs found that drug is better than placebo ONLY for people who were severely depressed.</q></p><p>It is worth noting two things about this. Placebo's do work. And importantly, the more complex the placebo, the better it works.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:13:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>James</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290937#post290937</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290937#post290937</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><a href="http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045 " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">This meta-analysis</a> of <em>all</em> the drug company data on 6 of the 7 SSRIs found that drug is better than placebo ONLY for people who were severely depressed.</p><p><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16881773 " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> This study</a> (paywalled) found that monthly sessions of 'behavioural activation therapy' is as effective than drugs in the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:44:46 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Konrad Kurta</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290925#post290925</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290925#post290925</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						This strikes very close to home. A close relative has dealt extensively with depression, and the doctor tried a few different medication combos for her. What we were most thankful for, though, were the 'talk' sessions she was able to have with a psychologist. From memory they were fully funded,…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:15:01 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle MacDonald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290923#post290923</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290923#post290923</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I'm actually going to retract my ranty comments about APN, just spoken to them and they're ken to keep pursuing this, so good for them, retractions and back downs were Sovereigns, and it seems that this story may indeed have some legs yet!
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:11:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290922#post290922</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290922#post290922</guid>
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						<p>There's something I'd like to add to this discussion.</p><p>I'm lucky to have had really good parents in the sense they had good genes. They both suffered badly through WWII and so were less able to teach some social skills but hell they gave me good genes. I'm fit(ish), mostly…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:07:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Miller</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290920#post290920</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290920#post290920</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I'm one of those with severe depression, the kind that actually is able to be treated with drugs. It's diagnosed as "chronic" and "endemic" &ndash; always there, not going away &ndash; but I'm not on SSRIs either. I take an SNRI because the first medications we tried didn't work, or…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:00:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290917#post290917</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290917#post290917</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Coley Tangerina <a href="http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/30/lets-talk-therapy/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">discusses this</a>.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:36:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290914#post290914</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290914#post290914</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>it’s just that when I’m low it feels as if being dead is a much better option</q><br />And it's ridiculous that because you passively don't want to live, instead of actively wanting to die, you don't get adequate treatment. It's like they take on the actively suicidal because it looks…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:58:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290913#post290913</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290913#post290913</guid>
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						<p><q>Fortunately that was an error, their is no drop from 16 to four</q></p><p>Well, that's bloody good news!</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:54:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Mike Kilpatrick</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290911#post290911</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290911#post290911</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>"Doing what you need to do in order to get help can involve a lot of banging your head against the wall."</p><p>This has been my response right across the board in New Zealand &ndash; at the doctor, from the depression hotline and from the mental health crisis team. And…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:45:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle MacDonald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290908#post290908</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290908#post290908</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Fortunately that was an error, their is no drop from 16 to four.  In fact due to ongoing political pressure and work by the Greens and the NZAP, ACC are bucking the current trend.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:39:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290907#post290907</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290907#post290907</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>This is not, of course, just about depression. There is no drug that could even theoretically replace relationship counselling.</q></p><p>And then there's also ACC counselling. Debriefing for victims of sexual abuse and trauma. Down from 16 sessions to four. How on earth is that anywhere near enough time to work…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:35:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290906#post290906</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290906#post290906</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>When I mentioned prominent thoughts about dying – and being as low as I’ve ever been – it was pretty much ignored.</q> <br />If this is how you are feeling, then you need to go back and keep asking for help. You can't go on with a treatment plan that is…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:30:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Mike Kilpatrick</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290904#post290904</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290904#post290904</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Thanks for writing this, Judith.</p><p>I've been severely depressed for many years and go through massive ups and downs.</p><p>After taking a variety of SSRIs, none of which seemed to work, I was offered six free Cognitive Behavioural Therapy sessions about three years ago. The CBT went well and I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:16:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290903#post290903</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290903#post290903</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>This is not, of course, just about depression. There is no drug that could even theoretically replace relationship counselling.</p><p>I have sat in a counsellor's office and been told, "Because you have said that, I can't let you leave until you've made a safety plan," while I protested that I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:14:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290902#post290902</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290902#post290902</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Thank you all for your comments so far. The range of experiences underlines that both talk therapies and medications have their places, and their use depends entirely on the individual's needs. The service in Christchurch sounds like something that should be available everywhere, and I'm disappointed that it's not.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:56:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290893#post290893</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290893#post290893</guid>
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						<p><q>If I won Lotto this is a cause I would donate to</q></p><p>yes, and lobby future governments to invest properly in this.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:08:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290892#post290892</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290892#post290892</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Personally I've found counselling invariably helpful at various stages of my adult life. I have no doubts whatsoever about the cost-benefit ratio for myself and those around me, and for what it has helped me contribute to our society and economy. I'd like to believe it has made me a…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:05:00 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290891#post290891</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290891#post290891</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>taking away an effective therapy just because it ruins the bottom line for an insurance company</q></p><p>And for government agencies, let's not forget. Judith Collins has some explaining to do. </p><p>If the government gets away with behaving like a corporate insurer, other public agencies are bound to follow suit under…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:01:04 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290888#post290888</link>
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						<p>Thank you for stepping up to the plate and posting on this.</p><p>When a combination of my father's death, issues at work and mid-life threw me into depression I was lucky enough to have good medical insurance and a good GP. We talked about it, he offered either talking therapy…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:41:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lara</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290887#post290887</link>
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						<p>Thank you so much for this post Judith.</p><p>When I was seen for panic attacks by my GP I was offered the choice of medication or free talk therapy sessions (through the liaison service that Ian refers to). I took the talk therapy and, when I did not improve, was…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:32:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Hilary Stace</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290886#post290886</link>
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						<p>Thanks for your post Judith. I am one of those who has found talk therapy vital in dealing with grief stuff including family deaths. But you have to find the right person.</p><p>My daughter is a counsellor who works for an NGO which specialises in supporting children and families, particularly…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:22:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian Dalziel</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290877#post290877</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290877#post290877</guid>
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						<p>Excellent words, thank you Judith.</p><p>Pegasus Health in Chchch offers an excellent <a href="http://www.pegasus.health.nz/what-we-do/primary-mental-health-services" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Mental Health GP Liaison service,</a> offering 5 sessions of free psych support over a 12 month period with a GP referral.<br />Perhaps someone should tell Sovereign that this health provider says:<br /><q> In any one year around 20 percent…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:14:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>JacksonP</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290874#post290874</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290874#post290874</guid>
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						<p>Thank you Judith. </p><p>And everyone else for sharing what must be very personal and difficult stories to tell.</p><p>The article doesn't mention it, but would this include counseling for someone diagnosed with a terminal illness, or their family? That would seem to be a huge area where talk therapy is…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:07:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jackie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290872#post290872</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290872#post290872</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I thank you for this, Judith.  I have only felt that grey fog for one day in my life &ndash; yes, honestly &ndash; and it was only lifted by some talky therapy. And just recently, I went through a bit of a break down &ndash; more a lack of coping…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 06:46:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290867#post290867</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290867#post290867</guid>
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						<p><q>(talking as somone who, you know, held her mother while she was bloody close to dying-)</q></p><p>That was when she was on citalopram...she developed hyponaetremia due to a change in dose...</p><p>good people all -I think we are all agreed that whatever helps is what we need, and there is…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jul 2013 00:10:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sue</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290860#post290860</link>
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						<p>Judith<br />thank you so very much for sharing your story.</p><p>this whole thing just destroys my brain a little. I can truly say without both medication and therapy i wouldn't be able to even leave the house., or even attempt to do the teeny tiny amounts of work i do.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:44:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290856#post290856</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290856#post290856</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>for counselling, it has been cancelled at least once in the past (in the late 90s, IIRC) and then quietly reinstated, because there is a need for it .</p><p>Report</q><br />Yo Lilith &ndash; I think there must be a difference btwn. WINZ *disability*allowance and<br />and assistance allowance.</p><p>Angus Maxwell: I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:24:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290852#post290852</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290852#post290852</guid>
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						Regarding WINZ Disability Allowance for counselling, it has been cancelled at least once in the past (in the late 90s, IIRC) and then quietly reinstated, <em>because there is a need for it</em> .
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:53:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Maxwell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290851#post290851</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290851#post290851</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I too was disappointed by the article. It was good that they raised the issue, however the failure to question the statements of the medical officer was a woeful omission. The evidence for SSRI's (once the pharma companies were forced to release all the data) shows that for the vast…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:45:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290850#post290850</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290850#post290850</guid>
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						<p>Thanks for writing this, Judith.  <br />I owe my sanity to counselling, which was funded both by the Family Court and by WINZ.</p><p>The relationship counselling I had through Family Court did not officially result in “reconciliation”, but it resulted in mutual understanding after a huge amount of distress and misunderstanding.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:15:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle MacDonald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290848#post290848</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290848#post290848</guid>
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						<p>At best ignorance, at worst malfeasance.</p><p>The world of insurance is a largely heartless, bottom line driven industry.  What they can get way with, largely they will.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 22:00:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290847#post290847</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290847#post290847</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>“How do we even know that talk therapy works anyway”</q></p><p>How did they manage to miss the piles of research that is behind the recommendations of groups like the NHS? Mild to moderate depression = talk therapy.  It's the standard of treatment, and antidepressants aren't supposed to be initiated unless…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:57:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290843#post290843</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290843#post290843</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						It gives me a little bit of hope that at least somewhere in the country, people are being offered that option. My experience, and the experience of several people I know, has not been so positive. I wish it had been, and I wish therapy was more widely available. As…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:52:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290838#post290838</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290838#post290838</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Kia ora Emma – 3 of my sisters, and my beloved mother, have been on SSRIs for the<br />past 7 to 10 years (except for the sister who died of pancreatic cancer in 2007, they live well &amp; work when they need to.) My mother is on Venlafaxine (started on citalopam,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:45:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle MacDonald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290837#post290837</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290837#post290837</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Hi all.  When I was originally approached for comment for this story, the whole story was hung on a quote the reporter had managed to get from Sovereign that "How do we even know that talk therapy works anyway".  Sadly in the editing process this quote disappeared, presumably because Sovereign…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:44:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290834#post290834</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290834#post290834</guid>
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						<p>The comment in the original article which pisses me off the most is this:</p><p><q>The country's biggest income protection insurer, Sovereign, says claims for depression have reached a crippling 40 per cent and the cost of counsellors it sends clients to "out of the goodness of our hearts" can't be…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:31:00 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Judith Fursdon</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290833#post290833</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290833#post290833</guid>
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						And how I wish that they would factor that in to their calculators
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:29:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290832#post290832</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290832#post290832</guid>
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						<p><q>Three to six cents a day seems very attractive when compared to the hundred-plus dollars it costs for each counselling session.</q></p><p>Yes, it does.  But not compared to the cost of not finding the right combination of treatments for the particular person who is right there in front of you.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:25:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290830#post290830</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290830#post290830</guid>
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						<p><q>who disagrees with the idea that counselling isnt routinely offered </q></p><p>None of the three times I've been put on SSRIs was counselling even mentioned.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:22:56 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Islander</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290827#post290827</link>
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				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I really wanted to respond to this post BUT<br />*I cant quote from it!<br />Islander, who disagrees with the idea that counselling isnt routinely offered &ndash; as opposed SSRIs- having unfortunately large family experience in these matters-</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:21:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290826#post290826</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-good-counsel/?p=290826#post290826</guid>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jul 2013 21:21:49 +1200</pubDate>
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