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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Up Front: Everyone is Wrong. And Right. Whatever.</title>
		<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=292055#post292055</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=292055#post292055</guid>
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						<p>Subversively painted nails might be better than a boycott. </p><p><a href="http://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sports/isinbayeva-defends-anti-gay-laws-as-swedish-athletes-give-russia-the-rainbow-finger/story-fndukor0-1226698097184" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Isinbayeva defends anti-gay laws as Swedish athletes give Russia the (rainbow) finger</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:18:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291512#post291512</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291512#post291512</guid>
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						<p><q>Gentleman's Clubs</q></p><p>Places like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White&#039;s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Whites</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrick_Club" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">the Garrick</a>? </p><p>Would explain why they have a penis-owners-only rule. Are they bisexual knocking shops, or are only boys of ill repute on the menu (probably codenamed as "spotted dick" &ndash; see attached)?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:07:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291509#post291509</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291509#post291509</guid>
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						The gym is the "massage parlour" of our age. Of course it's clear I'm using the conventional mean of massage parlour.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:20:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Megan Wegan</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291508#post291508</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291508#post291508</guid>
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						<q>But although not every misog-troll is a tech wizard, there’s a relatively high proportion of them in geek circles. Some of those fuckers will keep coming, in part because they have trouble conceiving of the impact of their actions on others, and in part because they don’t manage their own…</q>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:03:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291507#post291507</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291507#post291507</guid>
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						<p><q>Does she realize that “Gentleman’s Club” is a synonym for brothel?</q></p><p>Not in conventional usage. Which is clearly what is meant here.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:03:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291506#post291506</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291506#post291506</guid>
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						Does she realize that "Gentleman's Club" is a synonym for brothel?
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:45:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291505#post291505</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291505#post291505</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Just to cheer us up a little, here is a nice piece on <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10213132/Twitter-is-the-womens-gentlemens-club-of-our-time.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">the benefits of Twitter for teh ladies</a> .
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:23:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291503#post291503</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291503#post291503</guid>
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						<p><q>And yet somehow, despite the sexist culture in which we are steeped, most of us manage not to send rape threats to feminists.</q></p><p>This is the bit that completely throws me. I honestly can't get my head around the idea that there are folks who don't think their day is…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:05:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291502#post291502</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291502#post291502</guid>
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						<p><q>And yet somehow, despite the sexist culture in which we are steeped, most of us manage not to send rape threats to feminists.</q></p><p>It is true that some people have a lot more trouble with that whole "growing up" thing than others, but as I sit around twiddling my thumb…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:38:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291500#post291500</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291500#post291500</guid>
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						<p><q>I don’t think so. It’s unmasking people who abuse their online anonymity to make threats of violence. What these troll-men are saying is quite extreme stuff.</q></p><p>And at least one of the outed trolls claimed his Twitter account was hacked. Another one for the Tui billboards.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:38:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291499#post291499</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291499#post291499</guid>
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						<p><q>2: The links down the righthand sidebar seem to do a very good job of helping perpetuate the sexism.</q></p><p>And yet somehow, despite the sexist culture in which we are steeped, most of us manage not to send rape threats to feminists.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:07:11 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>nzlemming</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291497#post291497</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291497#post291497</guid>
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						<p><q>Isn’t that rather like a 21st Century equivalent of the stocks, though?</q></p><p>It's more like exposing members of the KKK during a prayer meeting...</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:16:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291496#post291496</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291496#post291496</guid>
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						<p><q> What these troll-men are saying is quite extreme stuff.</q></p><p>Two things I noticed about that article:</p><p>1: The first troll named had been arrested for his trolling.</p><p>2: The links down the righthand sidebar seem to do a very good job of helping perpetuate the sexism.</p><p>I disagree strongly with…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:05:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291493#post291493</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291493#post291493</guid>
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						<p><q>Isn’t that rather like a 21st Century equivalent of the stocks, though?</q></p><p>I don't think so. It's unmasking people who abuse their online anonymity to make threats of violence. What these <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383808/The-women-hating-Twitter-trolls-unmasked-From-respected-military-man-public-schoolboy-men-anonymously-spew-vile-abuse-online.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">troll-men are saying</a> is quite extreme stuff.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 12:38:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291488#post291488</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291488#post291488</guid>
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						<p><q>attacking the symptom</q></p><p>While it is always nice to attack the cause and cure it, it's worth remembering that medicine has succeeded for a long time in improving peoples lives and extending and saving lives by addressing symptoms first. Usually because that's all they could do at the time.</p><p>I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:03:04 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291486#post291486</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291486#post291486</guid>
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						<p><q>publicly humiliating them by outing their real identity (and other dirty laundry for good measure), </q></p><p>Isn't that rather like a 21st Century equivalent of the stocks, though?</p><p>Personally, I can think of quite a few people who could do with an hour or two of being pelted with shit, but…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 03:04:36 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291485#post291485</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291485#post291485</guid>
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						<p><q>I’m personally of the view that swinging the ban-hammer at rape-grade trolls is attacking the symptom and playing whack-a-mole.</q></p><p>It works with spammers. Well enough that spam doesn't significantly intrude on anyone's experience. And it makes the community standard clear: no spammers, nohow.</p><p>Tracking down and publicly humiliating rape-threatening trolls…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 00:25:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291484#post291484</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291484#post291484</guid>
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						<p><q> and publicly humiliating them by outing their real identity (and other dirty laundry for good measure),</q></p><p>Good luck with that. </p><p>1) How're you going to identify them? Possible in many cases, but don't we all get online from many places &ndash; home, work/school/university, phone/tablet, cafe's free wifi, etc.... that would…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 08 Aug 2013 00:00:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291483#post291483</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291483#post291483</guid>
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						<p>I'm personally of the view that swinging the ban-hammer at rape-grade trolls is attacking the symptom and playing whack-a-mole.</p><p>Hoisting them on their own petard, and and publicly humiliating them by outing their real identity (and other dirty laundry for good measure), would probably be far more effective than attempting…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:29:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291480#post291480</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291480#post291480</guid>
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						<p><q>And believe it or not, not every misog-troll is some techno-wizard. They’re sad little gits who shit on uppity women because they can, because they’re never had to face any cost or consequences.</q></p><p>Of the couple of dozen bannings here (yes, that few), two or three have attempted to come…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 22:01:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291476#post291476</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291476#post291476</guid>
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						<p><q>Twitter is full of user-created spaces with their own standards and vernaculars, none of which can be parsed at a glance.</p><p>I agree with Emma: Twitter must work harder on abuse, but the bar for sanctions will have to be high, and we shouldn’t expect miracles.</q></p><p>Yes, I don't disagree…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 18:46:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291475#post291475</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291475#post291475</guid>
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						<p><q>I only wish that I could have seen the face of the guy when he got the letter, when he saw that actions have consequences. I am really grateful for how great Vodafone was in dealing with it.</q></p><p>So glad you got some action. Sorry you had to deal with…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 18:42:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Joanna</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291467#post291467</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291467#post291467</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>And believe it or not, not every misog-troll is some techno-wizard. They’re sad little gits who shit on uppity women because they can, because they’re never had to face any cost or consequences.</p></blockquote><p>I got a super not nice comment on my website not too long ago, in response to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 16:01:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291464#post291464</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291464#post291464</guid>
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						<q>I think there are some very interesting issues just under the surface here, about equality of access and rights to free speech. Most people think moderation and/or banning on a website is the same as censorship. But websites aren’t actually public places any more than shopping malls are: the real…</q>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:42:11 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291454#post291454</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291454#post291454</guid>
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						Reading <a href="http://sexologist.tumblr.com/post/56811061145/my-most-wtf-sexologist-moment-to-date-an-open-letter" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this account of a sexologist outing a troll</a> , I wondered how many zillion hours of work one twatcock can generate. And especially when they're creepy and revolting but not quite personally threatening.
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				<pubDate>Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:01:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291425#post291425</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291425#post291425</guid>
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						I think there are some very interesting issues just under the surface here, about equality of access and rights to free speech. Most people think moderation and/or banning on a website is the same as censorship. But websites aren't actually public places any more than shopping malls are: the real…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 23:32:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291418#post291418</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291418#post291418</guid>
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						<p><q>Funny, that’s how I thought this place worked. Could it scale up to Twitter, though?</q></p><p>IMO, no. Because Twitter is too big and too diffuse to be a coherent community. </p><p><q>I think it’ll make a big difference.</q></p><p>I... yeah. I think they need to do it. I don't think it'll…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:27:00 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291417#post291417</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291417#post291417</guid>
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						<q>I’d still be wary of any kind of automatic dumping at all. It’s extremely likely that the majority of reporting disputes would not be clear-cut and would involve sincerely-held contrary views. And in the US, it’s pretty much a given that someone who gets dumped in that way will try…</q>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:12:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291412#post291412</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291412#post291412</guid>
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						<p><q>Yes, it does. However. I raise my eyebrow very high indeed at Twitter's assertion that they can't see a deleted tweet. </q></p><p>Twitter seems to be very, very heavily optimized at the distribution of tweets (and deletions are a tweet saying "delete this tweet" to the various tweet servers) I could…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:04:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291410#post291410</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291410#post291410</guid>
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						<p>As for the Twitter business model, isn't the obvious solution a, ummm, whatchacallit, freemium model? Basic service for free, companies and organisations have to pay for official accounts, and all users offered packages with extra cool toys and doohickeys if they want to pay?</p><p>I dunno, haven't looked at Twitter…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:02:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291404#post291404</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291404#post291404</guid>
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						<p><q> I’d still be wary of any kind of automatic dumping at all.</q></p><p>Me too, but I'm not sure that's what Deborah suggested. I'd've thought a "report abuse" button at the bottom of each tweet and algorithms that flag suspicious tweets, with both alerting a moderator who makes the call. And…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:55:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291402#post291402</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291402#post291402</guid>
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						<p><q>What DID happen was a whole bunch of my tweeps rushed to assist. That was nice. Community is powerful.</q></p><p>That's great. In the end, community sanction may be more powerful than anything else.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:45:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291401#post291401</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291401#post291401</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Likewise, if Twitter can’t operate a decent service because it can’t moderate tweets effectively, then it needs to look at its business model.</q></p><p>To be fair, Twitter runs an <em>amazing</em> service, and none of its competitors &mdash; the IM services, Tumblr, Blogger, Google+, Facebook, etc &mdash; do that level of…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:42:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291396#post291396</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291396#post291396</guid>
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						<p><q>I raise my eyebrow very high indeed at Twitter’s assertion that they can’t see a deleted tweet. That’s either a lie or an extraordinarily poor decision.</q></p><p>Agreed. And that’s what they say. I RTed the original threat to preserve it, but Twitter still didn't care.</p><p>What DID happen was a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:05:17 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291395#post291395</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291395#post291395</guid>
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						<p><q>I assume suspension freezes the account, so the user can’t just delete the evidence?</q></p><p>Yes, it does. However. I raise my eyebrow very high indeed at Twitter's assertion that they can't see a deleted tweet. That's either a lie or an extraordinarily poor decision.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:02:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291392#post291392</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291392#post291392</guid>
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						<p>Algorithms that would be able to tell whether a message:</p><p><em>"bomb warning on somewhere street, don't go down there"</em></p><p>Is a threat, or helpful information (some places get a lot of bomb warnings, like London in the 90's).</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:18:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291391#post291391</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291391#post291391</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Accounts are suspended on a purely automated basis. The account holder can then complain and get the suspension removed.</q></p><p>I assume suspension freezes the account, so the user can't just delete the evidence?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:08:00 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291390#post291390</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291390#post291390</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>I think implying it should shut down is even less useful than calling for it to be paid-only.</q></p><p>It never occurred to me that the answer was to shut it down.  I think the business model as it exists may not be viable, if they can't pay people enough to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:01:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291387#post291387</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291387#post291387</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Does anyone know what the process is for Twitter accounts reported for spam? I’m assuming there’s some checking done before deleting an account, but perhaps it’s fully automated?</q></p><p>Accounts are suspended on a purely automated basis. The account holder can then complain and get the suspension removed. So for instance…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:37:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291384#post291384</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291384#post291384</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Does anyone know what the process is for Twitter accounts reported for spam? I'm assuming there's some checking done before deleting an account, but perhaps it's fully automated?
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:23:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291381#post291381</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291381#post291381</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>the corporate culture of Twitter is … um … lacking</q></p><p>Isn't it more that the culture of the internet in general (with a few exceptions) is lacking? I mean, any comments section anywhere (I know, I know, never read the comments) is absolutely rife with "I'd hit that" and "feminazi"…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:51:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291368#post291368</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291368#post291368</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q> I’m also adamant that the bar for action should be high</q></p><p>Yes but some of the comments were so far above the bar The Hubble 'scope would have trouble imaging them. What caused the service desk to fail to identify them as bad? Sadly my guess is that the corporate…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 11:29:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291365#post291365</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291365#post291365</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>It’ll have to be very clear and focused on threat rather than language. I don’t think distant third-parties parsing abusive language is necessarily going to work out well.</q></p><p>Absolutely. The difference between abuse and the kind of conversation a lot of us might have with our closest friends is __not…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 10:43:01 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291357#post291357</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291357#post291357</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>I take your point, Russell and it’s a fair one. OTOH, telling someone on Twitter they’re an uptight cunt who deserves to go get raped? </q></p><p>You're right, of course. And in the end, the problem isn't one company's processes, but the legion of men who do this. It's six years…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 08:40:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291356#post291356</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291356#post291356</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>It’ll have to be very clear and focused on threat rather than language. I don’t think distant third-parties parsing abusive language is necessarily going to work out well.</q></p><p>I take your point, Russell and it's a fair one.  OTOH, telling someone on Twitter they're an uptight cunt who deserves to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 07:59:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291355#post291355</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291355#post291355</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						On different views of language  ... Moran herself is now <a href="http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rlojgc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">apologising for every language crime she's ever committed</a> on Twitter including using the the words "tranny", "retard and "spazz".
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 07:49:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291354#post291354</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291354#post291354</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>But would terminating the abuser’s account have any effect – if people are that nasty, won’t they just recreate another one, and use an untraceable IP to boot?</q></p><p>That strikes me as putting the emphasis on the wrong end of the transaction.  How about putting the weight on the abused…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 07:49:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291351#post291351</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291351#post291351</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q> <em>But it’s worth noting that twitter doesn’t make a profit, employing a bunch of people to clean up the service they provide from the worst is yet another cost on a business that doesn’t turn a profit.</em></p><p>Then perhaps it’s not a viable business.</q></p><p>I think implying it should shut…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 07:46:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291349#post291349</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291349#post291349</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>PS I did receive one threat myself, and I found the old reporting system incredibly complicated and difficult to navigate, especially while stressed. </q></p><p>And when that's precisely what misogynist trolls are depending on (and they do), it's not good enough for Twitter (and Facebook and ISPs) to say "it's just…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 06 Aug 2013 07:18:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Keir Leslie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291340#post291340</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291340#post291340</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I dunno, I remember the '76 boycott (and i wasn't even alive for it!) Apart from anything else, it set the stage for the more infamous '80 & '84 boycotts.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 22:21:55 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lilith __</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291330#post291330</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291330#post291330</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I took part in the Twitter boycott: I did it because I wanted Twitter to register that some of us are really, really pissed off.<br />It was only a day, and I do take twitter holidays sometimes to focus on other things, so it wasn’t a big deal. And I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 18:01:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291329#post291329</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291329#post291329</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Also: Twitter already has a "report for spam" button. To which pretty much all those arguments would also apply.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:50:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291327#post291327</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291327#post291327</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>But would terminating the abuser’s account have any effect – if people are that nasty, won’t they just recreate another one, and use an untraceable IP to boot?</q></p><p>Every hurdle you put up (so you block the account and the email it's attached to),  a percentage of people fall at.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:40:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291326#post291326</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291326#post291326</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>But would terminating the abuser's account have any effect &ndash; if people are that nasty, won't they just recreate another one, and use an untraceable IP to boot?</p><p>If they've done the latter, then even setting the law on them would have little effect &ndash; probably encourage them that the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:24:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291322#post291322</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291322#post291322</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Twitter said it didn’t breach their standards. That’s not a staffing problem, it’s an attitude problem.</q></p><p>Yup. Agreed. I'm always amazed when totally gross obvious abuse is treated as part of a grey continium. I get that there <em>are</em> cases where it really is difficult to know whether someone meant…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:55:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291319#post291319</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291319#post291319</guid>
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						<p><q>it sends the message that it’s not possible to change things and that being regularly threatened with rape and violence is kinda sorta acceptable</q></p><p>That's the message it sends to the people on the receiving end. The message it sends to the people who do it is even worse.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:37:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291316#post291316</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291316#post291316</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q> That’s not a staffing problem, it’s an attitude problem.</q></p><p>Basically, every time this sort of thing happens and responses both official and unofficial are variants on a shrug and a "whaddahyagonnado", it sends the message that it's not possible to change things and that being regularly threatened with rape and…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:28:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291315#post291315</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291315#post291315</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>But it’s worth noting that twitter doesn’t make a profit, employing a bunch of people to clean up the service they provide from the worst is yet another cost on a business that doesn’t turn a profit.</q></p><p>This, indeed, is absolutely true. And their volume of traffic is mind-numbing. I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:14:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291313#post291313</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291313#post291313</guid>
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						<p><q>Then perhaps it’s not a viable business.</q></p><p>I would have thought so, but unprofitable businesses can be sold for stupid amounts of money.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:02:05 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291312#post291312</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291312#post291312</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>As for the protest. Um I'm always uncomfortable about protests. Most of the protests I see grossly simplify issues. It's hard to chant a complex issue and children can't hold signs with too much text.</p><p>As you put it, to protest about being harrased off the internet by not being…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:00:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291311#post291311</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291311#post291311</guid>
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						<p><q>But it’s worth noting that twitter doesn’t make a profit, employing a bunch of people to clean up the service they provide from the worst is yet another cost on a business that doesn’t turn a profit.</q></p><p>Then perhaps it's not a viable business.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:00:18 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291309#post291309</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291309#post291309</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>The quote that struck me was this <q>Twitter cannot don a policeman’s helmet.</q></p><p>I understand the logic behind this, not many would like to see what is a business, taking on a role as judge, jury and executioner. But equally Twitter operates a service, if, as in this case, it…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:54:38 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291306#post291306</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291306#post291306</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>(To quote Lindy, linked up there, "I'm sick of being told that I'm navigating my own abuse wrong.")</q></p><p>Yup, I can totally grok that.  I guess the sticking point for me with #twittersilence is that it really helps to me mindful of the kind of privilege involved in <em>choosing</em> to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:48:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Danielle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291302#post291302</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291302#post291302</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I was babbling inanely about this on Twitter last night and I found myself mostly in your position, Emma. Which was: I get why you're doing this, but I think it would be pointless for me to take part because I aspire to be a <a href="http://jezebel.com/dont-ignore-the-trolls-feed-them-until-they-explode-977453815" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Lindy West type</a>, not a…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:48:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chris Waugh</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291298#post291298</link>
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						<p><q>I support boycotts, from the simple reason that you shouldn't be giving money to companies/countries who practices you disagree with.</q></p><p>You must lead a very ascetic existence, then. The way the economy is structured there's no way you could not give your money to companies/countries whose pracices you disagree with.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 12:46:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291297#post291297</link>
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						I changed from Visa to Mastercard (yes, I know) because Visa were sponsoring the China games. The Olympics in general are a corrupt circus &ndash; even when held in a democracy, they're an excuse to crank up the authoritarianism &ndash; remember the <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18990105" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">"Zil lanes"</a> in London?
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 12:44:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Brodie Davis</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291296#post291296</link>
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						I support boycotts, from the simple reason that you shouldn't be giving money to companies/countries who practices you disagree with.  It is one of the few powers left to consumers, and as long as you tell the maker why you are declining to purchase their product the message can get…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 12:31:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Josh Addison</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291292#post291292</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291292#post291292</guid>
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						OK, I guess I haven't read enough about the case &ndash; I hadn't heard of the co-ordination aspect, just "lots off arseholes piling on with rape threats".
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:58:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291291#post291291</link>
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						<p><q>Is this sort of behaviour really the result of entrenched privilege seeking to eliminate opinions that threaten it, or is it just the action of idiot bullies who see an easy target and aren’t interested in anything more than the immediate reaction? </q></p><p>Okay, in this case, we're talking about a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:56:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291290#post291290</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291290#post291290</guid>
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						<p><q>Nobody remembers the 1976 Olympic Boycott. Almost nobody at all. 28 countries boycotted that Olympic Games, because NZ maintained sporting links with apartheid South Africa. 28 countries.</q></p><p>I remember it. In the sense that I know about it. The 1976 Olympic Boycott happened during my Dad's OE. You know that…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:38:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>George  Darroch</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291289#post291289</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291289#post291289</guid>
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						<p>Nobody remembers <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/the-olympics-used-to-be-so-politicized-that-most-of-africa-boycotted-in-1976/260831/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">the 1976 Olympic Boycott</a>. Almost nobody at all. 28 countries boycotted that Olympic Games, because NZ maintained sporting links with apartheid South Africa. 28 countries.</p><p>Our out NZ speed skater Blake Skjellerup is <a href="http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_13476.php" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">taking his stand to the Olympics</a> (as well as <a href="http://www.out.com/entertainment/popnography/2013/06/10/blake-skjellerup-naked-olympic-skater-gay" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">magazine covers</a> – SFW, roughly). Louisa…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:25:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Josh Addison</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291286#post291286</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291286#post291286</guid>
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						<p>Nicely put &ndash; I've had trouble agreeing (or at least agreeing fully) with either side of the discussion myself. One thing I'm not sure of, though:</p><p>"...tactics which are clearly intended to silence women" &ndash; I've seen variants on this phrasing used quite a bit, and it always seems to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:18:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291285#post291285</link>
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						<p>On boycotting, the Latvian gay community (and Latvian vodka makers) has been pointing out that Stolichnaya vodka is made in Latvia not Russia, so boycotting it is not going to change Russia's mind. That said, the parent company, SPI, is Russian.<br /><a href="http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/08/gay-latvians-want-gay-people-stop-boycotting-stoli/67905/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/08/gay-latvians-want-gay-people-stop-boycotting-stoli/67905/</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:11:03 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291284#post291284</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/up-front-everyone-is-wrong-and-right-whatever/?p=291284#post291284</guid>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:11:03 +1200</pubDate>
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