I'm not sure if I'm (a) on the same point as you and Ben or (b) simply deluded (in which case, I'll plead distance induced naivete) but…

Planet "any publicity is good publicity". It's a sad planet, on which rich people spend huge sums to prove they are hateful dickheads.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's what I thought conservativism was supposed to be.

I don’t know what planet My Evil Namesake lives on, but the people I know who live out Helensville way? Plenty of lifestyle block commuters who are more worried about making the next mortgage payment than Teh Evil Geh Agenda and *cough* eccentric…

"There are people out there who simply don't like to see their prime minister doing things like dancing…

I wonder if the RadioNZ newscaster was trying to suppress laughter when reading out the report.

When Sue Bradford or John Minto turn up at a protest, they shall be called "rentamob". Even if no money has been paid to rent anyone.

When Colin Craig pays a lot of money to distribute pamphlets, he shall be called a "party leader".…

He should totally finance some Scientology-type movie

I found the Herald's note that Key was wearing a pink shirt a little odd, but I liked how they ended their piece:

Helensville local Jools Topp, from lesbian comedy duo the Topp Twins, was not impressed either. "Helensville is a cool town and…

"[The pamphlet] gave prominence to a comment from a disgruntled local: "Colin, you should stand here because John Key is too gay for Helensville."

Exactly. I normally wouldn't say nice things about almost any of the youth wings, but all of them seem to have taken leadership of their seniors in this issue, and young nats in…

Not all of whom are Labour, with or without air quotes, by any stretch of the imagination. Just saying... Don't get me started on Raymond Huo — a shiver looking for a spine to run…

"We" definitely means "Labour", but "Labour" does not mean "David Shearer and David Shearer alone". You're ignoring a lot of work by a lot of people when you assume that.

Yes it is awesome. Louisa Wall has been awesome. But you can't have it both ways.

You say "We're doing marriage equality", but if "we" means "Labour", then the party leader has been a follower. Listen to his wishy-washy…

ETA: er Simon, could you lay off the stupid digs at Labour for the moment? I don't want to brag, but we're doing marriage equality right now and it's pretty fucking awesome.

What did he say about him?

Fair question, anecdata? I shouldn't have been so sure. I've not lived in NZ for ten years and not lived in Mangere since the early '80s. Perhaps I'm giving him too much credit?

Well, as I've said ad nauseum, remember when…

Mallard will be offended not to count

I think Labour, at some point, does have to consider this (grossly oversimplified) question: what do we do on those occasions when the South Auckland vote and the Wellington Central vote are in conflict?

To be entirely cynical, I suspect Sio through throwing the queers under the bus would do some damage control after this went down like…

I laughed for ages while reading all the jokes about this on Twitter at the time. The best was Jolisa's "who will rid me of this turbulent MP?" Heh.

More amusingly still, one of his daughters urged him to change his mind.

Yeah, that's clearly not true.…

You are making refernce to Act and Dr Brash – if so should it not be "political skid mark".

Well, sure — but as Emma said the idea Suo's been pushing that marriage equality will cost Labour some of its safest seats? Well, as I've said…

Damien O'Connor I accept the logic even if I don't…

not according to that survey linked to from a previous post

same. she can be proud of that one for the rest of her career

he's reflecting their perspective well but they simply do not speak for the whole of his electorate

I don't know whether it's true, but I think Labour feels that when…

Oh, bullshit. I’m sorry but Mangere is Labour’s equivalent of North Shore – the day that seat flips, Labour…

If only the rest of life were like…

Fair enough, however I wonder if the good people of Manukau East feel adequately represented?

No, I really think it was a very personal public vote and for some it was easy, others not so much.
Whilst I agree Miss Kaye spoke well. It was Louisa for me. She was fucking Excellent! If that didn't sway anyone, I'll eat…

I'm glad he did but I was underwhelmed. I grew up in that electorate. I understand he felt pressured and I'm sure a smaller percentage of Pasifika people support marriage equality. But I kept wishing David Lange was still the…

I don't doubt it. Nor that their opposition, and his, is perfectly genuine. What I'm not buying is the idea that this will cost Labour Mangere, or indeed "seats".

http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/C29CDB15-FF6C-457C-B33E-CD45E1EEC519/225087/MarriageEqualityAmendmentBill_1.pdf

and the Marraige Act is here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1955/0092/latest/whole.html

Here is the NZ Law Report summary – which is a part of why we find oursleves where we are today:

http://www.equalrightstrust.org/ertdocumentbank/Quilter%20v.pdf.

It is "peculiar" that in the operation of law that for same gender couples to exercise the benefit of the rights guranteed…

What a jerk. Easily the low point of the debate.

I was a fine speech. And not just for its intelligent framing of marriage equality in conservative terms (I was thinking of Craig for most of it). At one point she gulped with emotion. She meant it and it showed.

Sofie, if Labour didn't de-select him and he stood again in Mangere, you think that electorate would vote against Labour, on this single issue? Here are the results from last time so you can calculate the swing.

Wait found it, c/o Kyle Matthews: "The case is Quilter v Attorney-General (Court of Appeal in 1997, reported in 1998 I think)"

He stood up, and a friend and I simultaneously tweeted, "Uh-oh."

I found most of it weak. I found his framing himself and his community as victims who might get "called names"... ironic? Mildly offensive? I think he could have…

Asked this question previously – it was tested through the courts, and they ruled the intent of Parliament…

I thought he genuinely felt between a rock and a hard place. He was heavily lobbied by his electorate, and he will be voted out if he went against them . I think he wanted to work for his electorate. He put them first ,himself second…

I didn't know this about Finlayson. I can't quite get my head around that but, as you've said, it's…

I thought the problem was that it isn't specifically prohibited, but that licences were only ever issued to straight couples on the assumption that the law was written under the assumption that a marriage is…

Winston's stance on this is super scummy.

Which is why I think it's really important now to write to those MPs whom you suspect are really opposed, or luke-warm, and thank them for voting in favour. Just to be nice, of course.…

The contrapositive holds, too. Voting for it doesn't stop you being a homophobe.

"Straight" is in inverted commas, at least. And I'm not going to call anyone gay who doesn't openly identify as such.

I also can't criticise Finlayson for his vote. He believes God made him gay, but that…

A pleasing aspect is the way NZ First has shown its regard for its voting base: the last…

I’ll never forget the time I called a friend a bastard for winning at poker, when we were both in our teens. He said calmly, “Quite possibly.”
I’ve never felt the same about that word since.

dpf has the votes broken down by age, location, ethnicity, etc. Chch MPs were 11-2 for. (There is a comment thread. Consider yourselves warned.)

sure impressed me

Quite – and there’s two more rounds before it becomes law. It’s not only polite to thank people who’ve acted well, but Colin Craig et. al. aren’t going to go away. And there’s a few MPs I’m going to make a…

Mind you he's catholic, and used to run the local…

Well, that page still has my local MP – Maggie Barry – listed as "undecided" which, when it counted, she wasn't. And I initially thought she voted NO because those damn voting sheets are confusing, but (for once)…

Entirely possible, but Marriage Equality had him listed as a definite no, and I'd never…

Perhaps, whatever his failings, he's actually not a social conservative. The only time I've met him was when he sat next to me on a plane. We discussed a New Yorker story we'd…

Brownlee voted for. I am genuinely staggered. Someone pointed out the age demographics of his electorate, maybe?

ps Fuck you, Brendan Horan.

His vote was noes
Or am i confused

Those sheets are confusing.

Chris Finlayson, a firm and somewhat troubling NO right up till tonight, voted AYE.

WAIT. Twitter is saying Upston just handed in proxies for Banks and Dunne voting in favour. Dunno why that took so long.

That's 80. 80 For.

I listened to about six speeches on the radio. John Hayes was the worst (ramble, ramble, "Labour's social reform agenda", ramble some more). The others were pretty reasonable, including Paul Hutchison, in favour.

I'm... going to finish getting drunk.

8.05 start 9.12 vote current best guess #marriageequality bill

Heads up everyone – think the debate will start before 8. Come as soon as you can!

The debate might start as early as 8pm, people are saying.

On Twitter.

But also that certain skin colours, genders, sexualities etc. are better than others. Saying that the poor gay people can't help it assumes there's something wrong with being…

Exactly.

People seem to mostly think the human rights issues are based on discrimination against factors one cannot help, like race or sex. But I think it's about freedom of conscience, and…

Here's the thing. It doesn't matter if it's genetic or environmental. It doesn't matter if it's fixed by age 16 or entirely mutable throughout someones life. It doesn't matter if it's someones…

Just stumbled on this Rainbow Labour Green Paper submission to the overall Green Paper for Vulnerable Children (with others…

Whereas what they're currently using (lower on the emetics and electro-convulsive therapy than in the 80s) [[http://www.examiner.com/article/apa-gay-conversion-therapy-can-cause-depression-and-suicide-attempts|has a fairly low success rate and tends to make kids throw…

Word, that leaped out at me from Emma's post also. I'd go further and say that even if it's entirely non-hereditary and changeable (I don't think this – this is an __even…

Thing is, Colin, even if there were no genetic factors involved in sexual orientation, even if all the factors involved were environmental and our desires are shaped by our childhood experiences and hormone exposure and the amount…

Yeah, depends on how other debates go. Parliament today is saying debate between nine and ten? Kevin Hague said in Twitter before he was expecting a vote about half nine.

At this point in time Louisa needs his vote no matter the motivation. I am sufficiently happy he is voting in support. Until this bill passes through all readings in the house successfully, it isn't certain. It would…

Until I met my husband I thought it was pointless, and then after I met him the reason for doing it wasn't the law, or changing my name (because my name remained the same), or anything like that. It was the…

There are posters downstairs in my building trying to entice uni students to NZ First's. I guessing they cost host their first national conference in a phone…

The less I think about New Zealand First the happier everyone else is, but even if Winston's personality cult had a youth wings why would you think he'd take a blind bit of notice of…

And for more lulz, check out the (now offline) Righttosmack.co.nz. In particular, this stood out:

3. Once this had been done, the geological projectile therapy should begin. Ensure that none of the projectiles are more than 6000 years old.

Don't let your domain names lapse, people.

There's been no reason to take that guy seriously ever since that plagiarism incident.

I’d rather not get fuckwit juice all over my good riding crop. Will this seal club I prepared earlier do?

In some of the incredibly squicky reading I did yesterday, it was stated that US law provides protection for minorities as long as they're "born that way". Now, given they also…

My guess is he discovered that some homosexual people are rich.

(please note, I don't believe sexual preference is a choice, I just don't understand why…

Or the "Tom Cat" Club. Oh no, they got a divorce . Goss from the Herald last week, was, she's doing well, he's losing weight.

Coat gettin'

In a rare move of political unity, the Young Nationals, Young Labour, Young Greens, Mana Rangatahi and Act on Campus have issued a joint statement urging all their MPs to vote in favour of Louisa Wall’s same sex marriage bill…

His argument is not so much "weird" as tossed-off word salad that would get a WTF? F in a first year philosophy paper. I can't respond to something where there's no actual argument to engage…

To be fair, Paul, there’s been a lot of talking about adoption law reform for years – and it’s as messy as it is complicated. But it’s not as sexy…

"Gay marriage changes everything, it will destroy our society"

"Gay people already have all the rights of marriage in civil unions, it's a tiny change, why bother"

Really I guess we're really arguing about a word "marriage" -…

That would be insane.

For the protection of my sanity I've stopped listening to Colin self-justifying once I've heard his stance.

I get that he may become important if National wants to exchange John for 2014 support but not yet for me to listen.

I'm glad marking diffrence to Colin…

And for balance, Bruce Logan is invited in to make some weird arguments against it. Ggiven Logan's previous issues, we ought to be glad that he is only plagiarising his own columns for other newspapers now.

Although the…

It feels wrong to be on the same side of a debate as that man.

I shall compensate by taking tremendous joy from the fact that he's going to vote the right way, and hate every fucking second of it. Double rainbow!

Word...

But then, he got shot rather than elected again,…

Yes indeed – or not* in deed*-

we KNOW politicians are unreliable in their promises & almost promises – how can we best show…

It's now clear that MPs are pushing at an open door. Public opinion was either already there, or at least willing to be persuaded.

But for years (and still) we've heard so many politicians find every possible reason not to engage.…

I am quite sure this is the case.

For all his posturing, Banks knows the…

Things have actually changed for the better good people (and will…

Beating us by 6 years. Highlighting why so many of our peers lived such traumatised lives in their adolescence, and beyond.

26 years is not a very long time ago. I still remember it for starters.

Extra poignancy for us because it's the realisation that Scotland didn't legalise homosexuality until... 1980.

When Barrowman talks of how lucky he was he didn't stay in Scotland, and that he might have…

he is a member of the act party and as we have known for months, despite his attempts at stalling, was always known he had to vote in live with the party

It's easier on your shoes if you notice that before it's up to your ankles.

I sound bitter. I'm not. Tomorrow, I shall be crying my fucking eyes out when this bill passes its first reading.

And I'd like to credit that, but his long history of utter bigoted hateful vitriol makes it... I don't know. I can't even. The fuck, etc.

Will be at the rally at parliament – after reading some of the bigots' thoughts in the papers and online, I could do with a good pro-me party.