Public Address | Cafe | Up Front: Card on the Table

Gee

Mon, 08 Apr 2013 06:34:41 +1200

Geek chic: http://candicebenjamin.com/blog/2013/01/28/through-all-of-space-time-doctor-who-inspired-wedding-day/#f

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 29 Mar 2013 07:59:57 +1300

Orson Scott Card-bon offsets?
Nice,
like a Heinlein in the sand...

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:24:52 +1300

What would make it work is if someone organised a big, visible Offsetting Campaign, where people who were going to EG could very obviously donate to a specific pro-marriage-equality fund.

Orson Scott Card-bon offsets?

Jeremy Andrew

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 13:54:05 +1300

What would make it work is if someone organised a big, visible Offsetting Campaign, where people who were going to EG could very obviously donate to a specific pro-marriage-equality fund. This has just come to me as I type, and it seems like a pretty sweet idea. Mostly, tbh, because…

Emma Hart

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 13:47:28 +1300

If I'm paying $15 bucks to go see Ender's Game, odds are the amount OSC gets from that is measured in fractions of a cent, so if I donate $30 to a pro-equality cause, that not only counteracts any money I gave to Card, but offsets pretty much the rest…

Jeremy Andrew

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 13:28:58 +1300

That ethical guide brings up an option not mentioned here thus far – offsetting. If OSC is getting a portion of your ticket price, and a portion of what he get will go to a cause that you are opposed to; donate to that cause's opposition. If I'm paying $15…

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 23:19:56 +1300

The Steubenville rape case (on top of the Jerry Sandusky / Joe Paterno case) is making me wonder what about sports?

Sports teams tend to try and avoid any political issues like the plague of course. They'd much rather have the homophobes and the PFLAGs and everyone in between support…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:16:31 +1300

It also doesn’t, I think, have the same impact as an actual boycott, as far as deterring people from working with Card in the future – witness the Superman kerfuffle, which was largely framed around people saying they wouldn’t buy the issue, as well as the damage by association to…

Jeremy Andrew

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:42:18 +1300

There is that, considering that, at the same time as trying to stamp it out, the studios are tracking downloads as much as possible to use in their metrics of how popular a work is. c.f. Game of Thrones producers & HBO kerfuffle recently.

I guess I'll wait for some reviews…

Emma Hart

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 15:31:17 +1300

Since all the scare-ads make the point that illegally downloading deprives artists, and leaves their children starving in the gutter, is this a legit option?

Yeah, I've been quietly pondering this question, and sort of hoping it wouldn't become explicit, because I don't really know the answer. It's a solution…

Jeremy Andrew

Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:15:18 +1300

So, resurrecting this thread after a Twitter convo.

IF you are of the opinion that Ender's Game is actually quite good, and a re quite excited about the possiblility of the movie being quite good, BUT are also quite aghast at the crap falling out of OSC's mouth and very…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 21 Mar 2013 22:17:00 +1300

Probably a bad place to comment on this- sorry.
But crikey. Appointing Susan Devoy as Race Relations Commissioner is giving the big finger to anyone who's concerned about race relations in Aotearoa.

Has Judith Collins never heard of Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Emma West?

Kumara Republic

Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:39:29 +1300

WTF? Central Wellington in this day and age?

Maybe not such a big surprise when bridge-and-tunnel types flock to the Courtenay quarter at night.

Rob Stowell

Thu, 21 Mar 2013 17:02:53 +1300

Probably a bad place to comment on this- sorry.
But crikey. Appointing Susan Devoy as Race Relations Commissioner is giving the big finger to anyone who's concerned about race relations in Aotearoa.

Chris Waugh

Thu, 21 Mar 2013 00:23:22 +1300

WTF? Central Wellington in this day and age?

linger

Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:35:22 +1300

My take on that is that it depends on how close to the actual on-field players the agency/enabling goes; so it’s more complicated than the single-author=moral agent problem originally posed. I think you could potentially support a team while condemning its management or coaches, without hypocrisy.
(Or to put it…

Gee

Tue, 19 Mar 2013 11:32:05 +1300

Forgive the de-rail (re-rail?) but... I'm going back to the support-the-art-or-support-the-artist question when people reveal themselves as vile bigots or sex offenders... The Steubenville rape case (on top of the Jerry Sandusky / Joe Paterno case) is making me wonder what about sports? Is there anything fair in supporting a…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:27:22 +1300

The more I think about Bakshi’s speech, the angrier I get.

He and his ilk lost. History will prove them utterly wrong. His words now are meaningless and he is irrelevent to the future. It's time to relax and let him have his pathetic little whine, while we raise a…

ChrisW

Sun, 17 Mar 2013 08:23:21 +1300

Thanks, Ben. Tried to come up with a photo-response, but ...
best not clutter Emma's place with more lurid photos.

Fact is, the good eye's been disconcertingly singular lately, the other one problematic.

Chris Waugh

Sat, 16 Mar 2013 13:02:01 +1300

Impressive speech by Chris Auchinvole.

BenWilson

Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:52:09 +1300

You, sir, have a great eye.

ChrisW

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:54:44 +1300

Gidday Tess – "since May 2009", you'll remember 'Are we there yet?' well too no doubt.

That photo of the lurid sunrise up the page – I was, to be a little trite perhaps, thinking "dawn of a new era" and all that when I took it yesterday morning, as…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:14:23 +1300

ANZ is quite happy that you & yours do you what you want within the bounds of our law/legal system.

And…… that… at the end of any day you, yours and me and mine are and need to be recognised that we are all equal no matter the laws. :)
I…

Islander

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:47:52 +1300

t’s perfectly clear that the definition of marriage that I hold too is very much in the minority, you only have to look at divorce and contraception rates to see that. It’s up to our MPs to legislate following the new understanding of marriage.

However this is provided that as…

Tess Rooney

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:34:17 +1300

I'm someone who has a pretty specific (and clearly faith based) idea of what marriage is, ie. a man and woman who vow to be with each other for life and who are open to the possibility of conceiving. However I would disagree with having a referendum about it. It's…

Stephen R

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:40:03 +1300

I have been pretty depressed with all the Citizen Initiated Referenda so far. The ones that were so badly worded people weren't sure what they were voting for, or the ones that say "I vote for feel good". or "I vote for A or B or C or D or…

BenWilson

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 13:57:40 +1300

Yes, I'm not really supporting Winston, though. Just wanted to comment on the generalization from foolish abuses of referenda to their overall worthlessness. I think there shouldn't be one, but for reasons specific to the actual one being proposed.

Also, for the record, w00t! Nearly there. If someone has asked…

BenWilson

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 13:43:47 +1300

The number of people who have changed their minds on this – here, in the US, in Britain, and Australia – in the last decade is mind-boggling.

Also, ten years worth of people from a less tolerant time dying and 10 years worth of people from more tolerant times growing…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:30:27 +1300

Thing is Ben, you’ve made a more principled and thoughtful contrary argument to my position in a few hundred words than Winston Peters managed in ten minutes on Wednesday night. He’s using a referrendum as a pretty feeble fig leaf for his homophobia – he voted against Homosexual Law Reform…

Martin Lindberg

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:14:15 +1300

The number of people who have changed their minds on this – here, in the US, in Britain, and Australia – in the last decade is mind-boggling.

all thanks to Will & Grace

Emma Hart

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 12:07:50 +1300

I have often thought back over the last few months to your May 2009 post on the subject and especially the long discussion thread: Are we there yet?

Ah yes, me saying I wasn't going to have this argument any more, four years ago. It's... something, to note that since…

ChrisW

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:41:25 +1300

I think it's well worth watching.
Thanks Emma, for the heads-up on Parliament TV on the night – I found it well worth watching. Very stirring, both the process and the resulting great numbers, 77-44.

I have often thought back over the last few months to your May 2009 post…

BenWilson

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:21:33 +1300

errata: Change "executive" to "legislature" in previous post.

BenWilson

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:05:03 +1300

I'll answer that to some extent anyway. Being part of the "moar referenda" crowd, as you put it, is not the same as being "referenda on everything". I think we should certainly have more referenda in cases where the government is openly doing things that are widely and strongly opposed…

Emma Hart

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 10:43:01 +1300

I have another whine. The more I think about Bakshi's speech, the angrier I get. And I called him an arsehole on the night:

http://youtu.be/fvqAPQXJOWA

Now, he's just a reasonable guy, who believes in equality. And if we'd just managed to make a good enough case, and bring a reasoned…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 08:05:18 +1300

Quite, LInger. I’d also ask this question of both the “redefining marriage” and “moar referrenda!” crowds.

The Crimes Amendment Act (1985). among other things, criminalized spousal rape. (A pretty serious – as well as welcome as long overdue – “redefinition” of marriage, in my book.)

IIRC, it had been introduced…

linger

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 02:38:52 +1300

That was a counterfactual, for very good reason. One serious objection to referenda in this case is that, in a state with any kind of ethical commitment to human rights,* matters of equal treatment for minority groups should not have to depend on the beneficient whim of the majority.

[*…

Chris Waugh

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 01:01:13 +1300

I'd be planning a coup to install a junta of market researchers.

Geez.... Here I was thinking the American mediocrely dubbed into Chinese wild-animal-attacks-people pron I had to sit through while waiting for dinner at a local restaurant was going to give me enough nightmares. Thank you, Mr Ranapia.

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 14 Mar 2013 23:39:08 +1300

Meanwhile, I/S obliges with a list of who changed their votes:

Yeah, anyone who follows me on Twitter will have picked up I'm very far from impressed with McCully and Coleman shaming the Shore; will swallow hard and pay for a bunch of flowers to Maggie Barry. (It would have…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:29:47 +1300

This was in the Herald, Gay Bill bolts Over Hurdle.
May be of interest.

Idiot Savant

Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:30:34 +1300

I/S notes that there's too much business on the agenda ahead of the Marriage Equality bill, so there'll almost certainly be no vote on it until the next Member's Day.

Yeah, I was horribly wrong on that.

Sj

Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:49:21 +1300

Congratulations are in order.

Emma Hart

Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:42:08 +1300

Good result; very happy to have been wrong about the scheduling.
Meanwhile, I/S obliges with a list of who changed their votes:

Cheers, linger, that's saved me some time this morning. And yeah, Speaker let them run long and have the third vote after 10pm. Possibly to save a riot…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:17:40 +1300

My (liberal bubble) Twitter feed agrees that the winner of the night was Chris Auchinvole, who hugely impressed me on the select committee.
Thanks for that. Auchinvole was also pretty impressive at the time of the passing of the CERA legislation.

linger

Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:11:30 +1300

Good result; very happy to have been wrong about the scheduling.
Meanwhile, I/S obliges with a list of who changed their votes:
Labour's Raymond Huo switched from an abstention to a "yes", while National's Brownlee, Coleman, McKelvie and McCully [voted against].

Emma Hart

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:30:38 +1300

Okay. Second reading has passed 77 – 44. First reading passed 80 – 40 with one abstention. So that's a shift of four votes. Which isn't too bad, really, and pretty much guarantees this is going to pass, but I'd still like to know who those four people were.

My…

Emma Hart

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:10:28 +1300

Yes, this is quite possible, and a bit of a shit. But. Debate is underway now on Parliament TV. Listener Live and gaynz have live blogs.

linger

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:07:00 +1300

I/S notes that there's too much business on the agenda ahead of the Marriage Equality bill, so there'll almost certainly be no vote on it until the next Member's Day.

Sj

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:42:12 +1300

For the record, I think Cleese's joke is funny, but perhaps not yet.

Sj

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:16:08 +1300

Yes to all of that (small comment notwithstanding). In the same genre the latest Listener's Sport's segment, also on Pistorius, compares the OJ case and this one as some kind of titillating series of sports scandals that out-scandal Hollywood – like it's a good thing! Lest we all die of…

Sj

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:58:26 +1300

Thanks Emma. I'll be back...

Emma Hart

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:37:15 +1300

Hey Sj. Discussion on the Pistorius Time cover is here.

And. In case people are unaware, the second reading of the Marriage Equality bill is scheduled for tonight. I've heard anywhere from 7-8:30: like last time this'll firm up as we get closer, and I'll update here for those people…

Sj

Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:34:37 +1300

Hello PAS people. I am sorry to gatecrash your site with a change of subject, but is anyone out there offended by the recent front cover of TIME? Runner Oscar Pistorius bare chested, standing tall on his blades. The caption: "man, superman GUNMAN in increasing size so Gunman is massive…

Stewart

Mon, 11 Mar 2013 12:51:24 +1300

Is your argument railing against an entrenched policy of only hiring 'like' types, or is it in favour of tokenist hiring of 'unlike' types? I'm not sure that you are making it clear.
(But that may be because I know fuck-all about the hiring policies at DC or any other…

Bart Janssen

Sat, 09 Mar 2013 10:07:47 +1300

Seriously, Bart, I’d just take the win if DC hired a dozen more straight off-white guys and cis-women on an ongoing basis.

absofrigginlutely

I don't get why in 2013 we still have this shit going down and it's across the board. Doesn't matter which profession you are in white men…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 20:49:17 +1300

Seriously, Bart, I'd just take the win if DC hired a dozen more straight off-white guys and cis-women on an ongoing basis.

Is it really that hard?

Los Bros Hernandez have been on the scene for thirty fraking years

There are plenty of women doing awesome work in the medium…

BenWilson

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:21:49 +1300

Mostly off-topic, but: For the private manned (wow, that's unashamedly gendered) mission to Mars, they are looking for a couple, since they'll be basically stuck in the same room as each other for about 500 days. A gay male couple capable of passing the tests may well be easier to…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:00:47 +1300

non-straight, non-white, non-middle-class, non-cis-gendered non-male

That combo makes my head hurt ... you want a heroine who is black/brown/yellow or green (it is SF after all) who is obscenely wealthy or dirt poor but was born/hatched/decanted as male, but I can't figure out whether you want her to like boys…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:54:55 +1300

If that were the only issue then you probably don’t have to worry about the movie. It’s quite likely he does not get residuals.

That seems to vary movie to movie. Tolkien's estate got a share of the profit of LOTR I believe.

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:06:35 +1300

Ursula Le Guin unticked 'em all forty-five years back. She also tells a rather wonderfully ghastly tale of how got a paperback edition of A Wizard of Earthsea and was surprised to see her hero portrayed as an Aryan wet dream when the guy in the book is none of…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:01:28 +1300

Or wearing budgie smugglers and getting all huffy when folks giggle immoderately. (Yes, I'm looking at you through my fingers Tony Abbott.)

Martin Lindberg

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 13:02:22 +1300

straight white middle-class cis-gendered males

I like the idea of a character who is a non-straight, non-white, non-middle-class, non-cis-gendered non-male. I mean, if you want all those boxes un-ticked.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:52:26 +1300

a lifestyle choice

like skiing

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:29:03 +1300

Got to flick myself on the ears there — there are also plenty of straight white middle-class cis-gendered males in geekdom who do own their privileges and don't behave like entitled garbage monsters. Because being an ignorant bigot really is a lifestyle choice.

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:25:43 +1300

Also, as Bart says, geek texts are gayer. Not only do they deal with concepts of ‘outsiders’ a lot, but ‘mainstream’ geek stuff – Dr Who, Buffy, BSG – have LGBT characters.

To give the straight boys credit where due, Ronald Moore was (to me) impressively grown-up and respectfully engaged…

Emma Hart

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:47:14 +1300

He's also a producer. And if this rates really well? There are all those other Ender books still to go.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:34:17 +1300

For a start, you don’t have to worry so much about the direct income stream. I mean, I’m a little surprised it hasn’t come up yet, but if the point where you get uneasy with him is the money, you can consume his art without giving him money.

If that…

Emma Hart

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:13:56 +1300

So I have a question. Would Ender's Game be more acceptable if OSC was dead and not activity spewing his bile?

If he was dead we could dismiss his views as being a product of history, of course we can dismiss his views as being a product of his location…

Emma Hart

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:05:20 +1300

So maybe in terms of population proportions, geeks have greater queer acceptance compared to the general population, but there are still plenty who have issues.

This. Also, I think that's partly because the geek community is queerer than the general population. (At least, that's my perception. We can't know, because…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 10:34:25 +1300

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there's an overlap with high-functioning autism, given the above-average representation of it within certain geek clusters. There's a reason why HFA is also known as 'Silicon Valley syndrome'.

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:38:09 +1300

Interesting link. Yes, it would be nice if racism, misogyny, homophobia and all other kinds of bigoted bullshit were unknown in Geekdom. The big flaw in that theory is that geeks are human beings. And, like it or not, Anglo-American pop culture still largely comes from quarters dominated by straight…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:30:55 +1300

So I have a question. Would Ender’s Game be more acceptable if OSC was dead and not activity spewing his bile?

If you find Ender’s Game a difficult piece of work, I don’t think it signifies either way. Hell, C.S. Lewis died fifty years ago, and people are still arguing…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:23:18 +1300

So I have a question. Would Ender's Game be more acceptable if OSC was dead and not activity spewing his bile?

If he was dead we could dismiss his views as being a product of history, of course we can dismiss his views as being a product of his location…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:20:41 +1300

As for the “geeks = super cool” in terms of their acceptance of queers, eh, I think maybe the “we are awesome liberals” type are – as in, they go beyond “tolerance” to acceptance.

I think it is that a lot of geek culture causes people to have their preconceptions…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:13:31 +1300

love Firefly; Buffy, I simply don’t get

I have friends who are insane Buffy fans. Maybe it's because I've never watched many episodes in sequence but I've never found the program anything other than mildly entertaining.

Stephen R

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:43:35 +1300

As for the "geeks = super cool" in terms of their acceptance of queers, eh, I think maybe the "we are awesome liberals" type are – as in, they go beyond "tolerance" to acceptance.

I think it might be related to the Geek Social fallacies. Geeks fairly frequently have internalised…

Ben Austin

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:30:46 +1300

I always find it rather hard to decide how to act in this situation. I did read Ender's Game a lot and the sequels such as existed before the early 2000s and greatly enjoyed them. On the other hand the author is incredibly vocal in his personal political views.

My…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 08 Mar 2013 00:20:27 +1300

I have to say I do notice the entrenched sexism more.

Gods Old and New, yes. Had way too many uber-squicky conversations with chaps who see precisely nothing even slightly problematic with the horrendous treatment of rape and violence against women in things like True Blood, Game of Thrones and…

TracyMac

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:32:55 +1300

As for the "geeks = super cool" in terms of their acceptance of queers, eh, I think maybe the "we are awesome liberals" type are – as in, they go beyond "tolerance" to acceptance.

But there are huge pockets of Christian geeks, military-SF geeks, Randians (and despite their professed "libertarianism",…

TracyMac

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:19:33 +1300

Actually, that's kind of the converse situation to what Emma talks about, in terms of the "bonus" you get when you find a favourite writer has views that align with your own.

That is, people whose views/perspective you find fascinating, and the work... not so much. China Mieville and Kim…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:15:32 +1300

Fans and retailers aren’t the only people upset that DC has hired very vocal gay rights denier Orson Scott Card to write the digital-first Adventures of Superman comic; artist Chris Sprouse, who was due to illustrate Card’s take specifically, has just quit the book due to the controversy.

Interestingly precise…

Islander

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:54:04 +1300

I have "Ender's Game" & "Speaker for the Dead" in my sf library – but nothing else.
I gave up on Gene Wolfe after the first 3 books of his torturer series- yuk. And – meh.

Morgan Nichol

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:07:36 +1300

The art exists on its own once created, so why would the prejudices of its creator matter?

It's funny, when I read this I immediately thought "oh like that bastard orson scott card, I'll have to comment about how much of a tool he is" and then, well you went…

Will de Cleene

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 18:30:43 +1300

Stranger in a Strange Land is the only Heinlein left in my library. That said, I found Friday's sexual politics about as offensive as the weird fixation Stephen Donaldson has in the Gap Cycle, a series which a fem-mate raved about. Haven't touched the literary genre since.

Futurama has about…

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 17:09:12 +1300

I own Bender's Game on DVD. Is that okay?

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 17:06:41 +1300

I would consider all science fiction irretrievably bourgeois and decadent.

Either you're part of the brave new future of socialism, in which case why read about alternative, incorrect, realities, or you're a reactionary dreamer, in which case you should be freezing your arse off in an antarctic salt mine*.

__*…

Stephen R

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:56:45 +1300

I believe it's China Miéville you want for the "flag waving commie" spot in your pantheon

Or Ken Macleod who, if memory serves, was a card carrying trotskyite at one stage. Him and Iain Banks are drinking buddies and both fairly left wing, according to the Edinburgh Scifi club members…

B Jones

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:14:46 +1300

Mieville lists a bunch of others here: 50 Sci-Fi & Fantasy Works Every Socialist Should Read.

I couldn't get past the "Peter and Valentine change the world by arguing on the internet" subplot in the Ender books.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:13:53 +1300

Michael Moorcock is openly anarchist, in the Noam Chomsky mould if I'm not much mistaken.

Paul Campbell

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:03:43 +1300

I believe it's China Miéville you want for the "flag waving commie" spot in your pantheon

Peter Darlington

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:48:24 +1300

For all the talk about how Heinlein was a nutso libertarian and PKD was a flag-waving commie, it's worth noting that they were firm friends and Heinlein financially supported PKD when he was at his lowest ebb (which was pretty often).

I never got the feeling PKD was a commie.…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:41:03 +1300

finding that an artist whose work you love has a life or politics you can admire

How many copies of Serenity and Firefly do I have to buy to balance out my copy of Ender's Game?

James Butler

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:05:47 +1300

While I'm here, has anyone else noticed the subgenre I'll call "SF writers who are also lefty bloggers who are probably better bloggers than SF writers"? I'm thinking of Charles Stross, David Brin and Cory Doctorow in particular.

James Butler

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:02:12 +1300

I'm going to add to this list of "SF writers whose politics I know of and disagree with" Gene Wolfe, a conservative Catholic (not that there's anything wrong with that, Craig (: ). He remains one of my favourite writers in any genre, but I find myself often cringing at…

James Butler

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:58:51 +1300

Tim Michie

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:48:53 +1300

Fans and retailers aren't the only people upset that DC has hired very vocal gay rights denier Orson Scott Card to write the digital-first Adventures of Superman comic; artist Chris Sprouse, who was due to illustrate Card's take specifically, has just quit the book due to the controversy. Sprouse gave…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:46:48 +1300

a bunch of Heinlein’s other work

It almost amazing how bad some of his work is in every sense. Yet other pieces show he had real talent.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:44:56 +1300

So, yeah, I think we agree that we read it differently, and that both readings are perfectly possible from the text?

Yup. I tried not to say the essay was wrong just that their conclusions from the book and mine were utterly different.

And yes I can completely see how…

Emma Hart

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:41:57 +1300

Reading all this makes me so pleased that Philip K Dick was a freak and Iain Banks is a leftie.

Heh, yeah, the flip side of this is the pleasure you get in finding that an artist whose work you love has a life or politics you can admire. Hence…

Peter Darlington

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:40:01 +1300

Reading all this makes me so pleased that Philip K Dick was a freak and Iain Banks is a leftie.

#sleepseasy

Emma Hart

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:39:55 +1300

What I'm saying is that even if that was what OSC intended, that wasn't what I read. So either OSC didn't intend that or OSC failed (with me at least).

So, yeah, I think we agree that we read it differently, and that both readings are perfectly possible from the…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:32:31 +1300

He’s “innocent” not in terms of feeling guilty, but in terms of culpability. You’re supposed to feel sorry for Ender, and perceive him as a victim. What the essay is saying is that Card posits a world where people are inherently either “good” or “bad”, and that matters more than…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:31:53 +1300

I’m torn. I loathe OSC and his opinions. Yet I still love Ender’s Game.

And that doesn’t make you, ipso facto, a drooling homophobe by association. A couple of days ago, I got into a Card-related discussion on IO9, where I made an observation in response to this:

really, my…

Sacha

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:07:17 +1300

One has to wonder what exactly Card was doing in the US Democrat Party for years. Or was he just one of them in name only?

you'll recall where our own Prebble and Douglas found a home before forming ACT..

Emma Hart

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:06:39 +1300

Okay, I'm not sure whether we're disagreeing here. Let me see if I can make this clearer.

Ender doesn't see himself as innocent. Ender sees himself as culpable. But that view, Ender's view of himself, is presented by the book as flawed. He's taking responsibility for things that every other…

Paul Campbell

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:57:11 +1300

I always thought Ender's Game just another take on the classic bootcamp movie (Starship Troopers is very similar).

On the other hand I found the sequels (not the prequels) more readable and uplifting

But then on the strength of those I also slogged through the Homecoming books (apparently a thinly…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:33:33 +1300

He doesn’t, and I don’t think that’s what the essay is saying.

No that is what the essay is saying. It is very clear about the fact that Ender's actions (abhorent) are acceptable because Ender didn't know. It is that dichotomy that the essayist objects to. But it is inconceivable…

Emma Hart

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:27:06 +1300

I never thought Ender believed himself to be innocent.

He doesn't, and I don't think that's what the essay is saying. Ender feels very real guilt. But the fact that he blames himself is part of the way the book excuses him from blame. (I haven't read the book in…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:19:23 +1300

I recommend this essay.

I read that and thought "wow this person read the book(s) totally differently from me"

I never thought Ender believed himself to be innocent. Even in my first reading of the book I felt (who knows how) that Ender knew exactly what he did to his…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:14:43 +1300

I'm torn. I loathe OSC and his opinions. Yet I still love Ender's Game. As a book, as a story and as the SF book I recommend to anyone who "doesn't read SF". The sequels were less compelling and anything he wrote after that series is just plain aweful. But…

Rob Stowell

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:11:40 +1300

You’ve probably seen this? :)
http://youtu.be/6jrngYNGNeE

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:38:54 +1300

One other thing, Red. I should note the Democratic Party at all levels doesn't exactly have a flawless record when it comes to GLBT rights. Obama had to clean up the mess of 'don't ask, don't tell' – and he took his sweet time about it — and it would…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:27:26 +1300

One has to wonder what exactly Card was doing in the US Democrat Party for years. Or was he just one of them in name only?

A DINO? Well, one should note the current Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, is a Mormon and one whose [[http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_13629152|opinion that the LDS Church’s…

Emma Hart

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:12:01 +1300

Meh, they're too busy reading Terry Goodkind.

Burn! My good friend jsr once said, "I've read Atlas Shrugged. I don't need to read it again while it's wearing a wizard hat and calling itself Faith of the Fallen."

One has to wonder what exactly Card was doing in the US…

Ben Curran

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:11:46 +1300

I'd already read most of the Ender series when I found out about Card's attitudes. I still think Enders Game is a good book. It did sort of colour the rest of his writing for me though, I've never been able to get into any of his other writing. I've…

James Butler

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:04:21 +1300

I’m sure Hayeck, Friedman and Saint Ayn are spinning in their graves.

Meh, they're too busy reading Terry Goodkind.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:01:40 +1300

One has to wonder what exactly Card was doing in the US Democrat Party for years. Or was he just one of them in name only?

Martin Lindberg

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:01:32 +1300

There are a lot of things you can say about geeks. But one of the other things is that they’re pretty damn pro-gay.

While I'd like it to be true, I haven't really seen much evidence for this.

Idiot Savant

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 10:48:14 +1300

Or to put it another way: don't give money to arseholes, it just enables their arseholery.

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 10:37:36 +1300

There is just no way you could put Card in front of a Comic-Con audience. They’d eat him alive.

Would be nice if it was true, I have my doubts given the unpleasant spectacle of c inomics and OSC-fans deploying the global supply of handwavium to make OSC’s explicit and…

James Butler

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 10:30:36 +1300

For anyone who has trouble reconciling the thoughtful, excellent writing in Ender's Game with Card's reprehensible and plainly stupid bigotry, I recommend this essay. It finally cured my desire to re-read the whole series.

Public Address

Thu, 07 Mar 2013 10:30:36 +1300

Discussion from blog post.