Public Address | Cafe | Up Front: An Open Letter to the Labour Party from a People of Christchurch

Hilary Stace

Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:10:32 +1200

Yes I think I've mentioned it before.

Sacha

Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:28:00 +1200

Mine was on the Mazengarb Royal Commission into Juvenile Delinquency

Fantastic. Did Russell know this?

Paul Williams

Tue, 25 Jun 2013 18:59:15 +1200

While I understand the criticisms of the Fourth Labour Government, I worked closely with David Caygill while I was in student politics and he was Deputy Leader of Labour in Opposition. He was a thoroughly decent, considered and constructive politician, very effective at actually getting things done. I think there’s…

Stephen Judd

Tue, 25 Jun 2013 17:33:15 +1200

suddenly we were in Selwyn, which is blue as an April sky, in a political sky that seemed awful blue, and it felt a little hopeless.

Wearing my Chair of the Ilam LEC hat, don't feel hopeless. For a non-fringe party in an MMP environment, party votes are the only…

Hilary Stace

Tue, 25 Jun 2013 17:25:03 +1200

I think it is very unfair to judge people by the politics of their fathers. Mine was on the Mazengarb Royal Commission into Juvenile Delinquency and in his spare time when I was young helped run the local version of the Citizens and Ratepayers Assn.He mellowed in his old age…

Rob Stowell

Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:24:32 +1200

Since you're here :)
What policies would you champion to reduce poverty in Aotearoa? Pretty broad question, so pick two :)

James Caygill

Tue, 25 Jun 2013 08:21:36 +1200

Hey Rob (and anyone else interested),

I'm always happy to chat – flick me an email from my site and we can get a time that suits.

James

Rob Stowell

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 23:58:54 +1200

Why not talk to James and report back? He’s not hard to track down.

And then it’s pretty cheap to join the Labour party
Heh- I'm hoping he'll do some talking. But some questions on his website, for example, worth a shot. Will try!
I was a terrible member of…

Stephen Judd

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:14:13 +1200

Why not talk to James and report back? He's not hard to track down.

And then it's pretty cheap to join the Labour party, you could talk to the LEC as a member and share your opinion on the contenders.

Lilith __

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:17:31 +1200

James will make his own way, I’m sure.

Not all political families go the same way. Kennedy and Doug Graham are brothers. :-)

Kumara Republic

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:03:09 +1200

We all carry some of that, don’t we? :)

The Kennedy and Ford families, to name just a couple of examples. Both of the original patriarchs were openly NSDAP sympathisers, with successive generations being more liberal.

Hebe

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:57:24 +1200

Also. Matthew Hooten has backed Cosgrove. So… that happened#2 Weird: WhaleOil backed Lianne Dalziel for mayor on his blog.

Do y'all reckon a Chch mayoral/local body election thread would be in order so those who want to avoid it can? I can see this bubling unitl at least November.

Rob Stowell

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:49:50 +1200

bear some weird blood taint from their parents.
We all carry some of that, don't we? :)
James will make his own way, I'm sure. At the moment, he's more-or-less an unknown quantity. I don't think it's completely irrelevant his dad was my MP- and became NZ's finance minister- through…

Sacha

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:39:37 +1200

Aaron Gilmore (yes, that guy) shares his thoughts about byelection prospects. (And remains unrepentant.)

Phil Lyth

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:41:06 +1200

Good to see the awareness of the upcoming redistribution of the boundaries. To note that Electoral Commission expects work to begin in about three months – first of all the Maori Electoral Option has to be completed, and that closes on 24 July.

Today I've asked Stats NZ to release…

Darel Hall

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:37:06 +1200

Yep, let James be judged by what James does, says, and promises.

Sacha

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:32:46 +1200

Yeah, when your dad was prominent in the same field that's always going to be part of the equation. Ask Chris Cairns.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:27:29 +1200

and his dad has left a mixed legacy

I'm sure there's a fair few PASers who would like to be judged on their own terms, and not bear some weird blood taint from their parents. (And considering my father didn't talk to me for six months after I 'came out'…

Emma Hart

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:49:23 +1200

Not quite in the electorate (at the moment)

Mairehau should be acceptable, I think. It’s not like it’s Merivale or Cashmere.

Also. Matthew Hooten has backed Cosgrove. So… that happened.

Rob Stowell

Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:45:03 +1200

James Caygill puts his hand up. Hm.
Not quite in the electorate (at the moment) and his dad has left a mixed legacy. He says he’s ‘reasonably left-wing’.
I have no idea what that means. Pre 1991 benefit levels, and a more progressive tax system? Or some nice waffling about…

Sacha

Sun, 23 Jun 2013 06:30:46 +1200

free up a list seat for Kelvin Davis

Does he even want back in?

Will@Wainoni

Sun, 23 Jun 2013 02:30:48 +1200

The thing is, with Lianne stepping aside, and Brendon not wanting to stand again in Christchurch Central, what alternative does Labour really have. Short-term, to get Clayton Cosgrove off the party list and into a seat, would then free up a list seat for Kelvin Davis up in the Far…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:40:12 +1200

I repeat, it's an unsourced rumour.

And whoever it's from, how do they manage to get away with making up that kind of shit? It seems that a lie travels halfway round the world before the truth can punch in its username & password.

Stephen Judd

Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:34:17 +1200

I repeat, it's an unsourced rumour.

Hebe

Fri, 21 Jun 2013 17:27:19 +1200

The Party would do better by not trying to finesse an outcome and parachute in a candidate to remedy a perceived "strategic" representative deficiency, such as a particular demographicThe Labour hierarchy would be surprised at the hammering they would get in East if they tried that approach. Might not lose…

Darel Hall

Fri, 21 Jun 2013 04:55:38 +1200

The type of person we need is someone credible to the people of the electorate such that they will work for the candidate to get them elected. That probably means someone from the area, or someone with a very good claim to be connected with the area. Given everything, it…

peterpeasant

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 22:09:26 +1200

You are so correct!
The LP does not connect with voters. Voters do not turn up.
LP caucus continues shifting deck chairs on sinking ship.

No wonder Dalziell wants out like a lot of very disillusioned ex and soon to be ex LP members

Darel Hall

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 22:02:41 +1200

The loss was through lack of attention to Shirley and Papnui. The lower turnout wasn't The key.

Hebe

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 21:08:32 +1200

Brendan did a great job in Chch Central, and it was a shame he lost. Incidentally, what was the turnout of still-resident voters like in Central last time? Maybe a higher turn-out would unseat Nicky Wagner.

All the Christchurch Labour MPs — and National and Green MPs — have worked…

Darel Hall

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 20:51:07 +1200

There are plenty of good Labour candidates for selection who come from “round here”. Clayton isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but he has done a good job for Labour in an electorate which is National/ NZ First. But it is difficult to jump electorates just because it is difficult. Either…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 20:14:17 +1200

I've come to the conclusion that there is such a thing as being so smart you're stupid.

The Americans would likely call it "too smart to fail". Chris Hayes' Twilight of the Elites immediately comes to mind.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 19:34:02 +1200

Or we realize that while electorate contests might be terribly fun for the media, who like nothing better than to reduce politics to a rugby game as to whether the guy from one end of town can out run the guy from the other end, the party vote is really…

Hebe

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:55:11 +1200

Which means either it was not communicated terribly well, or those damn pesky voters kicked Cosgrove's tyres, looked under the hood and didn't much like what they saw. Green voters don't seem terribly strategic on the whole. They can be irritatingly principled; I'm willing to hold my nose and vote…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 17:34:32 +1200

The message was not entirely taken on board by the voters.

Which means either it was not communicated terribly well, or those damn pesky voters kicked Cosgrove's tyres, looked under the hood and didn't much like what they saw.

This might be a dangerous thing to say on line among…

David Moorhouse

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 15:42:37 +1200

Welcome on board, Emma

Hebe

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 14:18:32 +1200

John Kelcher's aimed for his supporters to give the Greens the party vote and to vote for Cosgrove for the electorate (thereby having Wilkinson come in on the National list rather than winning another seat). The message was not entirely taken on board by the voters. I don't know what…

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:12:10 +1200

Another possibility is John Kelcher, who stood against Cosgrove in Waimak (costing Labour the seat), and who lives nearby.

You're going to need some pretty solid evidence to back up this claim. Why is it you believe Kelcher supporters would have gone over to Cosgrove if the Greens had stood…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:17:19 +1200

I don’t think that ‘living in the electorate’ is a necessary criterion to meet.

It really doesn't, but if you're making an argument that the other bastards are out of touch, elitist douche wagons it's a factor you might want to think about.

But I really dont like the practise…

FletcherB

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:21:49 +1200

If the Greens are running anyone, and have any sense, they’ll stand Mathers.

You know, I'm not in ch-ch, and who stands and who gets elected doesnt affect me much at all...

But I really dont like the practise of any party standing people who are already in parliament on…

Moz

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:13:37 +1200

I note that the Stuff article carefully says “there is speculation” and does not say who is doing the speculating.

“My colleague thought it would be funny if Labour put up a Claytons candidate”.

Lilith __

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:04:25 +1200

I note that the Stuff article carefully says “there is speculation” and does not say who is doing the speculating.

Someone told them in the pub.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:11:12 +1200

They could try and stop multiple voting with IP, cookie and browser profile tracking, or use a Captcha which would probably reduce their voting totals down to double figures.

But the "poll" would still be horribly unrepresentative – Stuff did an alternative census which, IIRC (they've deleted the results) showed…

Sacha

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:10:00 +1200

online polls are bollocks, technically speaking

Sacha

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:09:02 +1200

North Shore

cute

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:53:03 +1200

If you go with the ‘living in the electorate’ criterion, people can get ruled in or out by a street or two, which seems a little arbitrary. Better to look at their credentialsYou have never lived in Brighton. It is a little ... insular. When I first moved out there…

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:40:32 +1200

Exactly why growing the name recognition of another person in a party with a small number of MPs is important when that party is the third-largest in Paliament by far and is likely to have more MPs after the 2014 election.

The two big parties are so threatened by the…

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:33:38 +1200

I thought someone had OOS given the way the poll turned around from the showing in the first couple of hours to the result later this afternoon. Why don't Stuff just stop multiple voting on polls — or is that impossible?

Keir Leslie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:19:33 +1200

If the Greens are running anyone, and have any sense, they'll stand Mathers. She's got profile in the seat, will be running there agin in 10 months time, and is a good advocate for Green issues.

Sacha

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:55:56 +1200

Is someone who appears to have popularity with National voters really a potential candidate for Christchurch East ?

Should stand him against Brownlee

Deborah

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:52:49 +1200

I don’t think that ‘living in the electorate’ is a necessary criterion to meet. Working on the ground alongside the people in the electorate is probably a better one to use in this case. If you go with the ‘living in the electorate’ criterion, people can get ruled in or…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:52:11 +1200

Yeah. Also, I was testing my poll-jamming software this morning: 496 of those votes are mine, but I'm not saying on which side.

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:35:39 +1200

I think Mojo lives in the electorate – or she did. Another possibility is John Kelcher, who stood against Cosgrove in Waimak (costing Labour the seat), and who lives nearby. (I go for John on the basis that he'll throw a damn good party.) It would seem better tactics to…

Stephen Judd

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:31:33 +1200

National will probably stand a candidate in a Christchurch East by-election but with low expectations of winning

I don't know why. The party vote stats in East suggest that a good Nat candidate could win — Lianne got a far greater proportion of candidate votes than Labour did party votes.…

Isaac Freeman

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:20:16 +1200

Thanks very much Emma, I'm so glad you wrote this.

We've been waiting so long for any hopeful news in Christchurch, and a Dalziel run for mayor is something we can finally get behind. I was gutted to have it followed so quickly with what sounded like shitty intra-party manoeuvring…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:13:24 +1200

At this point, Mikaere, every member of the Labour Party who's paid their $10 is a potential candidate for Christchurch East.

James Littlewood*

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:12:52 +1200

Brilliant.

Mikaere Curtis

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:10:31 +1200

No particular knowledge, but we stood Jan Logie in the Mana by-election back in 2010, so I’d expect the Greens to stand someone in Christchurch East.

My money would be on Mojo Mathers standing, purely because she stood there in the 2011 election (not that this grants her a right…

martinb

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:06:34 +1200

Didn't Phil Goff keep fighting for Roskill when he got turfed out? Is that something only the respected generation of NZ parliamentarians worry about? (IE pre-Key candidate-from-central-casting days)

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:50:07 +1200

Other than guaranteed representation for the government and opposition due to s28(2)(e) of the Electoral Act

OK, perhaps I needed to be more specific.

Labour and National can (and do) make all the representations and objections and counter-objections they like to the Representation Commission they please, just like everyone else.…

Isaac Freeman

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:49:19 +1200

Today's Stuff poll on would you vote for Liann or Bob is interesting

It really isn't. Pay no attention to self-selected polls.

Emma Hart

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:26:51 +1200

is there also a party vote attached to a by-election?

No.

Who will the Greens put up?
Or will they use the Key/Banks playbook and ask their supporters to vote Labour?

This is an interesting question. The Greens don't pursue the candidate vote in general elections, but concentrate on the…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:25:48 +1200

When I heard Lianne on the radio this morning I thought that holding off the by-election until after the mayoralty election made a lot of space (who wants to steal their own media thunder) ... but then the cynic in me thought "but then, if she loses, she could run…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:14:03 +1200

the vote for a New Bright(er)on Future...
Voice of the people Emma, well said...
I can't see Cosgrove making a good fist of a Chchch East run,
he just doesn't have the common touch, IMHO.
He plays "suit games" and comes across as smarmy.

After Labour abandoned Burns and central…

Emma Hart

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:12:40 +1200

I should note that with the first link in this column, Stuff have done that thing where they basically glue another article on the top of the old one, change the headline, but stick with the same URL and comments. I could say some words, but they would all be…

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:53:45 +1200

Until this morning, when I joined the Greens...I'm feeling bad... it's in the "things I must get around to" box – join the Greens, dung out the garage, join the Summit Road Society,

Kumara Republic

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:41:00 +1200

More like a credulous reporter who doesn't do a lot of deep thinking.

If the attempts to insinuate UST between Peter Dunne and Andrea Vance were anything to go by.

Idiot Savant

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:19:08 +1200

And they can scrap away, because (it's worth noting) the Representation Commission is a statutory body and political parties have no more standing than anyone else.

Other than guaranteed representation for the government and opposition due to s28(2)(e) of the Electoral Act

Mikaere Curtis

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:17:56 +1200

Excellent, welcome aboard !

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:11:32 +1200

Yes.

Emma Hart

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:09:03 +1200

is someone confirming it on the Internet really an advance on pub talk?

On the 'public' internet, yes. Because in my experience, pub talk = Twitter DMs.

Sacha

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:07:56 +1200

depends if the person's name is Edgeler :)

Graeme Edgeler

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:07:26 +1200

The jockeying by parties in boundary redraws is part of the process, though the commission obviously has the final say.

National and Labour have actual members on the Boundaries Commission.

Graeme Edgeler

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:05:57 +1200

The by-election will be on the old boundaries* ...

*I was told this in a pub.

I can confirm this.†

† is someone confirming it on the Internet really an advance on pub talk?

Sacha

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:05:43 +1200

Until this morning, when I joined the Greens

Bravo

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:04:48 +1200

Sounds like another case of stuffing words into mouths for the sake of a 'sexy story' More like a credulous reporter who doesn't do a lot of deep thinking.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:00:12 +1200

if you look at the people who’ve gone on record as unimpressed with the Clayton for East story

Sounds like another case of stuffing words into mouths for the sake of a 'sexy story'.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:40:39 +1200

One of the great things about MMP is that unless you live in Epsom or are on the Maori role, electorates don't matter. So I generally vote for the Green candidate – sure, they probably won't win, and a split vote might let the Nat in, but the list allocation…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:31:20 +1200

I think this post is really good as far as being fair to Labour, and making it clear that it's not some kind of monolithic top-down organisation goes. I'm more thinking of say, NRT's post as treating it as if "Labour" has somehow decided to Stiff The Good People of…

Emma Hart

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:25:12 +1200

f you look at the people who've gone on record as unimpressed with the Clayton for East story, you've got two LEC Chairs and a couple of other assorted bods

Yes. I know a bunch of Labour people, and over the last few months I've been party to some Conversations…

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:22:55 +1200

The jockeying by parties in boundary redraws is part of the process, though the commission obviously has the final say.

Keir Leslie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:18:31 +1200

To be fair to Labour, if you look at the people who've gone on record as unimpressed with the Clayton for East story, you've got two LEC Chairs and a couple of other assorted bods. It's not exactly been greeted with waves of rapturous applause.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:18:04 +1200

Are you a member of the Labour Party? If so, and they have a democratic candidate adoption process, you could go along and vote, or even stand yourself.

If not, then consider voting for a more democratically based party.

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:17:50 +1200

I , cough, am very supportive of the bees. I can make a case for the bees thriving being the foundation of agriculture etc, but I'm not sure the council in this city at this time should commit funding to it.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:14:44 +1200

Correct. I expect a scrap by National and Labour over the redraw — which will have significant changes for the city and province.

And they can scrap away, because (it's worth noting) the Representation Commission is a statutory body and political parties have no more standing than anyone else.

Sacha

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:41:23 +1200

assumes Dalziel will resign if she _stands_ for the mayoralty, not if she _wins_. Is that clear yet?

Apparently. Dalziel firmly told Kathryn Ryan this morning she wanted to deliver her valedictory in Parliament on the 4 September anniversary. (24 mins, listening options)

Keir Leslie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:32:04 +1200

General rule: weird ideas of Aaron Keown's are far more popular than they should be.

Lilith __

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:30:43 +1200

the exhausted scary fucked-off mothers of Christchurch.

A lovely line and a frightening visual image Emma.

Something like this?

Big hair FTW.

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:28:22 +1200

Stuff polls are notoriously right wing, to be fairYeah but sometimes they are odd: only two-to-one against a council bee convenor last week surprised me.

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:24:56 +1200

the exhausted scary fucked-off mothers of Christchurch. A lovely line and a frightening visual image Emma.

Keir Leslie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:23:28 +1200

Stuff polls are notoriously right wing, to be fair.

I don't think anyone expects it to be a walkover. The Christchurch local body left had any traces of that rudely dispelled about three years ago now...

As far as boundaries go, I think it's easy to overstimate how much will…

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:17:30 +1200

Correct. I expect a scrap by National and Labour over the redraw — which will have significant changes for the city and province. National will be trying to bed in their perceived shift in in Chch Central to surrounding electorates like Port Hills and Waimak (though Cosgrove's in with a…

Nicola Eccleton

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:15:21 +1200

Love your work, Emma.

Emma Hart

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:11:09 +1200

The other factor to consider when shopping for a candidate is that the nature of the electorate will change in the next boundary redraw:

Oh, man, Hebe, I have this rant I do after a couple of beers about how nobody seems interested in the boundary redraw. The by-election will…

Hebe

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:05:45 +1200

Yup. As a former Easter until a few years ago, you're right

Though your column assumes Dalziel will resign if she _stands_ for the mayoralty, not if she _wins_. Is that clear yet?
The other factor to consider when shopping for a candidate is that the nature of the electorate…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:58:12 +1200

yeah, those are traditionally safe [insert party/incumbent here] seats

Which fucks me off beyond reason, because... you know, parliamentary democracy and all that jazz. It's a little hard to expect high quality candidates when you're either being treated like a family heirloom or not worth the effort.

Tim Michie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:56:29 +1200

Thank you for writing this Emma.

Keir Leslie

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:41:41 +1200

I like this column.

Emma Hart

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:40:51 +1200

Pity John Campbell isn't a mother from Chch East, I think he'd win hands down...

He might be the carpet-bagging exception: he'd win in a freaking landslide down here.

Gee

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:38:11 +1200

this by-election is a chance for our issues to make the news night after night. We need you to stand someone who knows how we feel. Your candidates should be people who marched with us, who fought with us even when nobody else was paying any attention. I would love…

Public Address

Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:38:11 +1200

Discussion from blog post.