Is there some word to describe this act of saying the exact opposite…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzDaNEJudAs

He pleaded guilty to injuring with reckless disregard – which carries a maximum penalty of…

He broke Kirsten's back Kyle, it's millimetres away from permanent paralysis or death. Most of the charges were dropped, it's not your average domestic violence case.

It's a wee cord surrounded by some small bones. Anything that happens to your back is "millimetres away from permanent paralysis or death". Sadly,…

words have meanings

In China it seems they are whatever you want them to be

That's quite apt Sacha, I didn't think much of using the word 'blackmail' at the time, but, (while still in talkback rant mode), try this on for size;

A New Zealand (recently) ex-colleague at my…

Significantly in Veitch's case, I think it's safe to say it wouldn't have even gone near a court (as was the case for a…

Specifically thinking in relation to violent crime and heaven forbid, our smacking legislation, ie, not so much the Vietch case itself as the precedent and message that has been sent by the ruling.
"I'm sorry for beating you yesterday son, here's your candy"
"I…

words have meanings

In China it seems they are whatever you want them to be

Let's also hope that others have…

Weigh it up, should I report the abuse? Or should I blackmail the attacker to pay me? Either message could be inferred.

Chris: With all due and sincere respect, I'm really sick of the word "blackmail" or "extortion" being used in the context of the Veitch case. I know this…

Few ordinary "joe bloggs" who assault their partners can afford $150,000 Kyle.

You've only quoted half my paragraph:

You're also assuming that an ordinary "joe bloggs' who assaulted their partner wouldn't get a similar treatment. Conviction without jail time and alcohol/violence treatment would be a common sentence for a first…

I stopped reading the linked article when I reached this bit.

Secondly, it's very rare that I have any sympathy or find much agreement with right-wing blogger Whaleoil (Cameron Slater)

Whilst I don't agree than name suppression was appropriate in the case of the musician up the alleyway,…

I expect to hear you have been lobbying the Government on such issues if your concern is that black and white. Good luck.:)

Thanks, but as you know it's no longer my home, merely my homeland, So the degree of relevance to my own life is minimal. I just wished…

I find the subtext deeply worrying. It set a precedent that can be exploited by either member of a domestic dispute and does nothing to address the violence. (page 9.)

I guess you missed that, No worries I've written a lot, but…

Even if right now Kirsten Dunne-Powel is the only victim of domestic violence in New Zealand who has taken the money over the pressing of charges (which I doubt), the message it sends to the wealthy is "It is OK to break someone's back, it'll just cost a little".

I…

"Well, he didn't think about it, clearly. He was very drunk and went down an alley with a couple of young women to get a blow job in the middle of the night, and…

I don't know all the details, but I do know that the musician was wasted enough to do that, admitted he did it because he was wasted and didn't remember it the next day.

Do you actually KNOW all that, or do you just think you know? By know, do…

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/cross-dressing-man-sentenced-after-indecent-assault/5/16975

Chris, you admit you do not know the details and yet you are convinced the judge got it wrong. Why is that?

I don't know all the details, but I do know that the musician was wasted enough to do that, admitted…

Why are judges guilty until you are "convinced" they're innocent?

those members of the judiciary who seem to be taking quite dramatic liberties with the laws,

If that was so,it would not go unnoticed and ignored by anyone else dealing with the case. It may be your opinion and we hear this all the time by many radio…

Had the nameless, faceless judge who 'discharged...gave" this judgment, been subject to the same media scrutiny as the victim and defendant, I think we might start to see some different results.

The Judge aint nameless, faceless.The Judge has decided the "scrutiny" from media and other such situations warranted name suppression…

I agree with you Steven that publishing sex offenders names isn't always in society's best interest.
I think the main interest of society is that the justice system is fair, efficient and non-selective.
I don't think my issue is with the law as…

What might the consequences for the victim be? and how high would the anxiety of contemplating those consequences be?

That's difficult. The anxiety is obviously high for any victim of crime, trial or no trial. I have no issue with suppression of victim's identities, In fact I'd feel more comfortable…

I've been many times blacked out drunk, but never once have I grabbed a girl and put my dick on her face. That's something internal to a person's constitution, not to be simply blamed…

And, knowing some of the details of the case, I'm not totally surprised that suppression was granted.

And not knowing some of the details of the cases, I'm left with a sense of inequality about the degrees of transparency offered by that system. I take your word for it Russell,…

i.e. no ALL. As in, "in some of the other cases, but not all". Big difference. In the case of the "prominent entertainer", Defence Counsel Ron Mansfield asked for it and the judge granted it.

And, knowing some of the details of the case, I'm not totally surprised that suppression…

All of the credible stats and those in the know seem to point to no increase in sex workers due to the legal status, but a hell of…

generally speaking, no prostitute would, without the inducement of money, have sex with the clients

er, no. At least one of my friends decided that seeing as she enjoyed anonymous sex so much she might as well get paid…

you are conflating separate issues

I'll admit I am confusing separate issues.
Russell is right to call me up on it. I, like some of the other Jones', find it confusing, I made a mess in the kitchen to present a conclusion that there's

1. a perception of inequality.
2.…

...In the case of the prominent entertainer, that's not what was reported, on the contrary, the victim expressed anger at being muzzled from outing the defendant.

Unfortunately you've misread — deliberately or not — what Russell Brown wrote, which…

name suppression has been ordered at the request of the victim,

...In the case of the prominent entertainer, that's not what was reported, on the contrary, the victim expressed anger at being muzzled from outing the defendant.

You may have some interest in my views on that issue, chris.

However,…

And I'm sure you could name or be a phone call away from naming all the name suppressed celebrities I mentioned, your station in life being more equal than say, mine, for instance.

Dude. Grow up.

seems to have been played off

but you're simply…

Tony Vietch paid money and avoided prison for Violent assault and left her for dead.

I wouldn't want to defend what he did, but his actual actions were bad enough, I don't think he actually left anyone 'for dead'. Someone actually has to be dying to be left for dead,…

In the end, he pleaded guilty to a sole count of assault and was sentenced on that basis.

It was a charge a injuring, which is substantially more serious.

I was more disappointed that he could still emerge and depict himself as the victim, even as he hurled around threats.

And worse still, a number of public figures were basically saying, "go easy on Tony, he's just a man being a man."

No. simply contrasting cases whose only common attribute is money and/or influence. Where visibility seems to have been played off against the excesses of media scrutiny to afford those with wealth or access to wealth, a mildly better protected existance.

I'm trying to to come across too sharply, but you're…

But apart from "it didn't happen at all", "there was consent" is pretty much the defence to a rape charge.

There was also: "there wasn't consent, but I thought there was". However, after a couple of really bad cases, in New Zealand (and I think the UK as well -…

WTF are you on about? You've made a wild assertion about the "blatant ideological corruption [of] our own justice system" and then reeled off a string of cases whose only common attribute is that they've come to your attention via trial-by-media.

You've conflated cases of interim name suppression, suppression to…

i've pissed off a lot of people

no shit sherlock

I'm sure you can do better than this – like Dyan, I don't read you as a troll. Just frustratingly unreasonable in your arguing. And thanks for fessing up.

snap

Having said that, Angus, I don't think you are a troll, and much as I think your argument is a steaming pile of... disputable opinions, I do respect you coming here, arguing your point and being pretty civil. Considering what kind of argument you're making anyway.

If however you do…

so glad

How's that Laphroaig?

so glad you found the time

Seemed about the right amount of eloquence, considering

In the 80s it was... Dobermanns...?

Madam's right Sir. :)
Saved a doberman once. It was running scared and free on the Melbourne Motorway. we named him Kaiser. Bit of a punk thing.

(for Angus' bullshit, to be clear..)

In the 80s it was... Dobermanns...?

Dobermanns. (Dobermenn?) You remember Zeus and Apollo from Magnum PI, right Danielle? I know you do...

pitbull-type dogs

Sorry for the derail, but this is one of my 'things': there is an eight year old 'pitbull-type dog' lying snoring on my bed right now. The fact that she has always had a lovely temperament is actually irrelevant, because she lives behind a six foot fence we…

*Not his real name incidentally. If I wrote that, odds on some person from North Otago would remember him,…

Given that circularity, I'm pretty sure I'm done. Your comments about me can be read in the light of your other comments on this thread, and previous ones, and I'm…

It makes sense if the people are speaking in court. We all want trials to be honest and get at the truth. Therefore we want all people in the court to tell the truth and nothing but the truth.…

It also doesn't address the fact that you've twice asserted that people should be obliged to mention things they don't remember, a position which makes, let's be clear, no sense at all.

It makes sense if the people are speaking in court. We all want trials to be honest and…

turned aside *from a pig hunt* to savage my uncle's led horse.)

Now ,it's proof that helps here. Noboby writes about proof of any of those dogs doing anything, just that paper signed, shot.

I actually think, on evidence, there is a good case for some other primates to be called guilty of evil actions.

Dogs? Not so ( though you wouldnt've turned your back on one of my…

It's based on the comments they both voluntarily made to the media. Are you calling them liars?

No, I am calling you mistaken in jumping to the conclusion that they lack the basic human faculty of being able to recognise the difference between fantasy and reality. I think your reasoning…

Again, hard to remember, but this woman was never on trial.

Then perhaps I should have said in her defence, even that she wasn't defending, she was still on a trial about her, you still gotta represent, kinda thinking perhaps that was what Tim had meant, by the time I…

Also... I am aware that this thread, and Angus's constant hammering of it, are causing some distress to people. I can lock the thread off should people feel it necessary.

Well I can only speak for myself Emma, but I'm extremely grateful to you for both bringing this up and…

Rather than give in to Victim Blame Bingo, however, perhaps a more entertaining strategy would be to make disclosure of sexual fantasy so commonplace (and as it normally is, rather trite and dull) that no-one would ever think to imply anything about your actual behaviour from it.

I contend that…

I like dogs: there's a few in the family. Some are valued family companions. Some are working dogs.

The action of 2 blokes shooting 33 dogs,…

In answer to your argument, a step I jumped earlier, i hope this answers all your questions:

No Angus, in fact that spiel, while yet again repeating what you've said before, doesn't answer any of the questions you've been asked.

It also doesn't address the fact that you've twice asserted…

The defence failed in their role from the error.

This!
I'd just add, never give up the fight. As Louise Nicholas persevered, that be the lesson also. Stand up for your human right.
Plus I am sure Tim means her defence

In answer to your argument, a step I jumped earlier, i hope this answers all your questions:

A fantasy is a fantasy, everybody has them. This lady has had a fantasy of being a "dirty whore", it is not uncommon. And she has had fantasy about having sex with…

Not that I don't enjoy talking, merely that given the times we live in, is it really that much of an outrage?

Can I just be the first to say yes it is an outrage, and the only way to change the world in which we live is to do…

Always get a good Lawyer,

Lest we forget Tony Vietch who broke a woman's back, wasn't sent to prison (because he could afford to break a women's back), but we can for a moment simply overlook the blatant ideological corruption our own justice system has become predisposed to and focus…

No. The question is "is it reasonably possible that she provided consent for this sexual encounter?" It is a decidedly different question.

Fair enough. Although I'm unsure of how date rape, or rape within a relationship could ever get prosecuted then.
The whole thing give me the heeby jeebies because…

Fair enough. Although I'm unsure of how date rape, or rape within a relationship could ever get prosecuted then.

Indeed, Tess. Rapists are generally so disobliging to prosecutors — they will keep forgetting to violate their victims in well-lit public spaces with comprehensive CCTV monitoring and dozens of witnesses.

I hope you're right, but still the media reporting gives us the message that we can't share sexual fantasies online because it provides…

Fair enough. Although I'm unsure of how date rape, or rape within a relationship could ever get prosecuted then.

The whole thing give me the heeby jeebies because…

But I think, and Graeme can correct me if I've cocked this, that there's a level of probability required to make it through a depositions hearing to go to trial, and then a much higher level (beyond reasonable doubt) to secure a conviction.

For a matter to go to trial…

Surely a legal argument that can be framed this way is exactly the same argument – given real power and used in a judicial process – that is presented by idiots like Angus?

But apart from "it didn't happen at all", "there was consent" is pretty much the defence to…

If a someone makes a complaint, surely that's enough? Doesn't that complaint require investigation?

Investigation, yes. And there was investigation. But I think, and Graeme can correct me if I've cocked this, that there's a level of probability required to make it through a depositions hearing to go to trial,…

I know that if someone says something I find really hurtful, and it upsets me to a point where I can't reply, I feel better when I see someone else speak up.

Word.

Dyan Campbell:

If a someone makes a complaint, surely that's enough? Doesn't that complaint require…

The question is not "Did she deep down want this sexual encounter?", it is "Did she provide consent for this sexual encounter?"

No. The question is "is it reasonably possible that she provided consent for this sexual encounter?" It is a decidedly different question.

Differently worded, but not really that…

And for people like Megan and Danielle and Jackie and I, it's become about supporting each other. (That doesn't mean we agree about everything, or shut up when we don't agree, or any of those hive-mind things.)

It might also be worth noting that you and Tess have rather sharply…

"rather irritable and gradually losing her patience at having to state the obvious to the wilfully obtuse".

Thank you Craig, for articulating what I couldn't.

It's true, you wouldn't like me when i'm angry.

This topic should not be used for the purposes of ignorant rantings and opinion based arguments, and I know Emma and co have the best intentions, but sometimes, and I would argue this is one of those times, the audience is just simply not up to it.

Jack, you don't…

Emma, I trust you've got your rage on now. I'm not sure how any of you think this is going to help, or constitutes 'doing your bit', but carry on.

Recordari: Allow me to dissent, but believe you me — this is not Emma (or Danielle or Megan or Isabel…

Jack, you can't possibly be blaming Emma ('and co'! I want to be part of 'and co'!) because Angus' argument is crappy. It... sort of sounds that way, though...? I am confused.

No Danielle, I am certainly not blaming any of the PAS core for Angus' arguments. He is solely…

No. The question is "is it reasonably possible that she provided consent for this sexual encounter?" It is a decidedly different question.

That would be the question for deciding whether to find the defendant guilty, no? Surely "it is likely she didn't consent" would be more than enough to send…

talking about something you might, hypothetically, want to do doesn't give people license to do whatever the hell…

The question is not "Did she deep down want this sexual encounter?", it is "Did she provide consent for this sexual encounter?"

No. The question is "is it reasonably possible that she provided consent for this sexual encounter?" It is a decidedly different question.

Which is why I drafted that comment three times before posting it, because I couldn't decide if I could be bothered continuing to go around in circles. Turns out I was too annoyed not to.

Don't worry Megan, and yes it's Jack still, but for some reason reading this thread…

It seems a bit remiss to me that this has got to page six and no one, that I can see, has linked to the support services in case a reader needs some genuine help, instead of this indiscriminant blather.

The man (?) makes a point.

Which is why I…

1940 Alabama, with a Black man and a drunk as a case for your argument? What horse did you ride in…

You can find Rape Crisis online here, and the legislation…

it seems to me that Angus has no interest whatsoever in the issue of consent. the only issue to be considered, it seems, is prosecution witness credibility. kind of a funny position to take seeing that no trial took place (funny ha ha! i think not). anyway,…

"She asked for it 'cos she talked dirty."

Lies of omission are things unsaid, so no not able to.

Angus, you know you're lying to yourself if not us. You are so adamant about this that you clearly have a conversation in your head with a constructed statement that you're evaluating as positively untrue, not just some vague…

Okay, fair enough, BUT... why should an expression of _fantasy_ (something unreal and imaginative) be problematic in the…

I can't speak for Emma, but I think the most important part of a trial is justice being done.

Fantasy is unreal, it is imaginative, it is where we can explore aspects of our self that we wouldn't in real…

Angus, can you please tell us all what sentence you imagine her saying that would be the "lie".

Lies of omission are things unsaid, so no not able to.

I was under the impression that what destroyed her credibility and why the judge ordered the jury to return not guilty verdicts was because they had evidence of her (supposedly) wanting group sex with strangers; NOT that she was lying by omission and thus was untrustworthy.

Actual quote from the…

Eg: "I drive responsibly" or " I've never played hockey". Something where the answer is either true or false.

I was under the impression that what destroyed her credibility and why the judge ordered the jury to return not guilty verdicts was because they had evidence of her (supposedly) wanting group sex with strangers; NOT that she was lying by omission…

Basically, you're conducting this discussion by repeated your initial assertion that she's a dirty lying whore, albeit rephrased, but not responding to any criticism of that position.

No, Emma i am focusing on lying being the most important facet. The importance of truth in the judicial process. The "dirty whore"…

No you didn't, Angus. Do yourself a favour and don't try to lie about things you said in print on the same page you said them.

Classic.another victory for good sense. I strongly support team non-Angus.

"prominent entertainer" case, where the police agreed to drop very a serious charge after…

Do you mean "highly probable" isn't good enough, it needs to be be "beyond a reasonable doubt"?

Yes.

If you conclude in a rape case that it is highly probably that a complainant withdrew consent, and made this known, the charge hasn't been proved and the person is not guilty.

I had to read this three times to try and make sense of it.

Do you mean "highly…

But as a legal matter, it may be relevant in determining whether you believe the person actually said "no". Or even whether you believe it is reasonably possible the person didn't say "no".

Quite. That's what happens in courtrooms. Judges and juries do actually weigh the credibility of those they…

Emma, Danielle, Jackie et al. You guys are awesome, and are pretty much the reason I have any faith left.

Can I just add the people (real ones even) who worked on the Taskforce for Action on Sexual Violence, including Louise Nicholas.

The report itself is on the ministry website…

Emma, Danielle, Jackie et al. You guys are awesome, and are pretty much the reason I have any faith left.

Seconding that in a big, big, big way.

I'm trying to figure out how anything that happens before someone says "no" is relevant.

The safeword is applesauce?

But as a legal matter, it may be relevant in determining whether you believe the person actually said "no". Or even whether you believe it is reasonably possible the person didn't…

I had a wee skim. Many points on the MRA bingo card. 'Women want equal rights but not equal responsibilities' is like a mantra to those douches.

Do you know what? I give up. I can't read something like that and not punch my computer screen. And I didn't even…

She agreed and the two began to have sex but she fell asleep during foreplay – which Sloan continued despite her being unconscious. Both were drunk at the time, with the woman being "heavily intoxicated".

[[http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/prosecutors-clarify-technical-rape/story-e6frg97x-1225766190778|Prosecutors clarify technical…

prosecutors said they had made a "mistake" in their handling of the case.

They insisted there had been no consensual sex between the pair and that the woman had "feigned sleep" in the hope Sloan would cease performing sex acts upon…

In July, defence counsel Laura Finnegan told the District Court that Sloan's alleged victim went with him into the parklands and consented to sex acts.

She said Sloan continued to perform sex acts after noticing the woman appeared to be…

And really, is "Don't have sex with someone who's unconscious" such a terrible restriction?

But... the Animalistic Penis-Brains! They cannot be restricted in such a manner!

And the comments beneath fascinating!

I had a wee skim. Many points on the MRA bingo card. 'Women want equal rights but not equal…

Word. And that column is all kinds of offensive.

And the comments beneath fascinating!

But that case is MUCH more complicated than the story those two links convey.

how do we properly accomodate the world's shades of grey?

Well I think from reading those articles and comments there are two different things going on there.

1/ People don't consider it to be rape, because the woman consented to sex. She did NOT consent to him having sex with…

The second anyone withdraws consent or is rendered unable to give consent then sex stops or it is rape.

Word. And that column is all kinds of offensive.

This case provides some further interesting (perturbing?) questions about 'consent'.

Roger, who brought the rape complaint in that case? Was it the woman in question? Because if it was, that 'she probably would have said yes if she was still conscious' argument does start to sound a little unlikely.

Also,…

Consent is not a one-time thing – sex is only consensual as long as all parties continue to consent. The second anyone withdraws consent or is rendered unable to give consent then sex stops or…

I'm trying to figure out how anything that happens before someone says "no" is relevant.

But what about after the answer was 'yes'?

The Australians seem to have been having an at times similar debate over the sorry and sordid case of Matthew James Sloan. This case provides some further…

If she said "no" a miscarriage of justice has occured. If she said "yes" a miscarriage of justice has been averted.

But writing about a fantasy prior to the alleged rape does not constitute consent to anything. Consent needs to be given in the moment and can be withdrawn at…

Basically, you're conducting this discussion by repeated your initial assertion that she's a dirty lying whore, albeit rephrased, but not responding to any criticism of that position. After a while, it starts to look like you're not because you can't.

This is cross-threading, but Emma should conduct interviews on TV…

Wow – reductio ad absurdum. Yes, Emma "witnesses" are people.

Angus, you made this thread about honesty and integrity. On the internet, even. And then you made a false statement about what you'd said. Do you not get that at all? Really? Or are you just not capable of admitting…

Whose side is "vanilla privilege" is going to harm most – the woman or the bunch of acknowledged sexual deviants?

The woman, because this scenario – unless it involves a great deal more gay sex than I think it ever has – makes her into "the slut".

And really, is…

...we’ve examined vanilla privilege before.

I think that is a true concept, "vanilla privilege" exists. I agree with Emma and admire the succinctness of her argument in that regard and many others. So i keep reading this blog.

So here is a trial about to take place. The…

I would say that many, if not most people have fantasised about group sex. That doesn't mean many, if not most people want group sex…

I understand your point about pragmatic decisions about prosecution, but this has not been described as a general matter of truthfulness, rather of a (false) equivalence between fantasy and actuality – which you're perpetuating here.

It is only false if rape occured, if in fact consensual sex is what took…

I'm trying to figure out how anything that happens before someone says "no" is relevant.

If she said "no" a miscarriage of justice has occured. If she said "yes" a miscarriage of justice has been averted.

I understand your point about pragmatic decisions about prosecution, but this has not been described as…

Witnesses are, I believe, people. And this, I believe, makes you a liar and fundamentally unreliable.

Wow – reductio ad absurdum. Yes, Emma "witnesses" are people.

My point is that "prosecution witnesses" are a smaller group governed by rules which I thought you were seriously debating the nature of. Prosecution…

And this is what I want to know,…

Dumb question time. Is a sexual assult anything of a sexual nature that that was not penatrative?

deep love of neologism

there has to be a word for that..

It's called a pwn goal

Genius.

There needs to be a word for that thing that happens on the net where, in attempting to disagree with you, someone proves your point for you

My friend…

And even if I were arrested for a knife crime, I wouldn't dream of mentioning it to them – it wouldn't be relevant (unless I did have someone in the boudoir, and tripped over while holding a knife in my hand).

I... have actually accidentally stabbed someone in the bedroom.…

Emma disagrees and thinks the prosecution should have plowed on regardless by presenting what they know to be an untruthful (or forgetful) witness as entirely credible.

Your argument seems to keep coming back to the belief that the complainant was honour-bound to inform the defence that she was in fact…

1. She realised that the fantasies could cast her in a bad light and deliberately withheld information from the police.
2. She didn't think the information would…

I could see it as a tactical move: we're not going to let the defence drop this on the jury: we'll do it first and put it in context before they get the chance. I imagine that happens sometimes.

Indeed — as Georgina Beyer said, in another context, she spilled…

You are, let me get this straight, not in favour of people not mentioning things they don't remember?

I didn't say people, I said the prosecution, the state. I am against the state being allowed to forget the truth. I am against the state being able to ignore the truth.…

Russell. If you already expect to have your character assassinated by the defence, why are you going to hand them any more ammo?

I could see it as a tactical move: __we're not going to let the defence drop this on the jury: we'll do it first and put it…

But it's basically insane to declare that a rape complainant is morally obliged to volunteer to the defence any prior thought or utterance that could potentially be used to personally destroy them in court.

It's also an extraordinarily naive expectation on Angus' part, Russell. If you already expect to have…

a) That defence was always likely.

b) The notion exists.

...because, what, you say so?

(I would also like to second Danielle's motion in re: Emma's awesomeness.)

Someone is offering testimony to incarcerate someone for 5 – 10 years, should be wholly truthful. If they can be demonstratably found to be less than wholly truthful on relevent facts, how credible is the rest of their testomy?

Angus you seem to be edging somewhat over to an argument…

you are in favour of prosecution witnesses being allowed to omit relevant facts because they forgot

Yes? Now, do you expect Russell to have perfect recall of the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of words he's spoken, published and blogged under the Public Address banner over the last two…

you are in favour of prosecution witnesses being allowed to omit relevant facts because they forgot

You are, let me get this straight, not in favour of people not mentioning things they don't remember?

Yes, yes it was.

And those of you familiar with the Guardian Comment is Free section can take a moment to play a little imagination game. Which columnist was irate enough over this woman being considered unrape-able to write on it? Now, who picked this one?

Keep meaning to say: this defines the phrase…

Both of which are entirely unsupported.

a) That defence was always likely.

b) The notion exists.

Reasonable doubt is the standard.

Someone is offering testimony to incarcerate someone for 5 – 10 years, should be wholly truthful. If they can be demonstratably found to be less than wholly truthful on…

Oh, great. So we may as well not prosecute any gang rapes, then.

Well, unless they go on-line and confess (with some cellphone footage uploaded to You Tube as a chaser). Still, I'd like to know if the apparent "absolute certainty of conviction" threshold for prosecuting sex criminals in Preston…

No, I mean she should not lie about her fantasies. She should inform the police/prosecution.

Uh ... okay. And I presume you believe all rape victims should be required to do this. That'd certainly change things.

And if not, why not?

their call sounds a lot like that of the Greater Crested Fuckwad.

Most popular but least played bird on Morning Report ever.

No, I mean she should not lie about her fantasies.

And as far as you know, Angus, she did not lie.If you're going to continue to push this 'she didn't present it therefore she's being deliberately misleading' angle, I think you should respond to some of the criticism of it.…

the Greater Crested Fuckwad

Emma, have I expressed my deep love for you recently? Because I don't think I do it enough.

Easier than what? (Also, your sarcasm here seems faulty).

I think what's confusing you is that this is that rarely-seen thing, the funny funny rape joke, calling card of the Brave Speaker of Truth to Power. You have to listen quite hard because their call sounds a lot like that…

since she decided not to inform the police/prosecutor/court(?) of her fantasy she is trading on the notion that women are generally opposed to group sex to achieve an easier conviction.

So, if I'm the victim of an unprovoked assault in the street, I have to inform the police/prosecutor/court that I'd…

she is trading on the notion that women are generally opposed to group sex to achieve an easier conviction

Ah: a *conniving* whore, then.

On one side they've got a woman alleging rape, on the other side they've probably got six people saying that it was consensual, and then a…