I'd be tempted to suggest going the other way, and if you know any of the other parents in the class gang together…

from your description, this school seems a bit, um, dysfunctional.
but even worse, they sound less than calm and reasoned.

do they have a big sign over the staff room that says:

"Defensiveness R Us"? ;-)

but really, this isn't funny when your daughter is under their supervision for…

The trouble with 'Harry HE LIkes BEer By Cupfuls Not Over Flowing' is its a sentence which no-one would ever say.

I dunno, we always made a point of making our mnemonics as nonsensical as we could. The Periodic Table one my mates came up with for the first ten…

The trouble with 'Harry HE LIkes BEer By Cupfuls Not Over Flowing' is its a sentence which no-one would ever say. It's also a…

Is this the 91st all over again, or the 93rd?

The answers to the six questions were C, B, D, C, C, D.

I've long had a romantic notion that an english multi-choice test would have answers in sonnet form:

A B A B C D C D E F E F G G

It just appeals to the orderly…

I can sing you the chant I learned of the symbols for the first 20 elements but couldn't tell you what the elements are or even which letters represent the sounds I'm saying

I didn't have a chant, but I was pleased to note that looking at

Harry HE LIkes…

PE (!) teacher, 1985 (years before actually needed): Harry HE LIkes BEer By Cupfuls Not Over Flowing

Having sat through three years of high school science, I find myself only ever able to remember the first dozen or so elements of the periodic table. I suspect the latter sentences of…

I've had a lingering belief in the power of silly ditties in memory ever since a 1989 Economic Studies test in which my friend and I conferred afterwards to check we'd got the same on the multi choice section.

Piano teacher, c.1982: Five Cats Got Drowned At Evans Bay

PE…

;-)

The subject, even the question, are seared into my brain forever.

I've had a lingering belief in the power of silly ditties in memory ever since a 1989 Economic Studies test in which my friend and I conferred afterwards to check we'd got the same on the multi choice section.…

How on earth does that work? In what city are you cabbing?

I heard the "Warehouse guy" line from a driver in Auckland in 1997. To be honest, I've only tried the cousin line in Sydney. Delivered in a slightly "medicated" tone, it's a sure-fire conversation killer.

point down a street that you happen to be passing and say something like "My cousin used to live down there." After that they usually leave you alone.

How on earth does that work? In what city are you cabbing?

I'd say the balance has shifted historically from a role demanding respect, regardless of the performance or personality of the incumbent, to it being earned in the execution of a role or the living of a…

And I love the way people say that just before they're about to be disrespectful, in general.

I've very occasionally used 'with all the respect that's due to you' instead.

With all due respect

And I love the way people say that just before they're about to be disrespectful, in general.

devil's advocaat

I like that too. :)

Ahh, isn't gin a depressant?

From personal experience, I'd say gin is a gigglant.

With all due respect Emma, the assumption that people contribute here simply to 'piss people off' is a tad fanciful.

Mark, I didn't mean people, I meant you in particular. Why? Two things. The tone of your post as I read it was snarky, sarcastic and exaggerated. And two, you'd…

I suppose I can now consider myself educated on the etymology of the word 'respect'. But Mark, the…

Victory gin?

Nice. It would appear so. :)

Ahh, isn't gin a depressant?

Damn right it's a depressant Sacha, I've moved onto White Russians with Malibu this morning.

With all due respect Emma, the assumption that people contribute here simply to 'piss people off' is a tad fanciful. People contribute to express opinion and share knowledge. Despite differences…

Ahh, isn't gin a depressant? I mean the juniper liquor, though the other was probably also depressing for both horses and proletariat.

Victory gin?

*an alcoholic liquor obtained by distilling grain mash with juniper berries. not a stationary prime mover having a drive shaft rotated by horizontal beams pulled by horses walking in a circle.

So in case Eddie Clark, Danielle, Sacha etc ever watch this movie or another like it (of which there are many), and get caught on these lines, and naturally assume there must have been some kind of mistake

Mark, dude, I am On Holiday. Are you making a point, or…

So in case Eddie Clark, Danielle, Sacha etc ever watch this movie or another like it (of which there are many), and get caught on these lines, and naturally assume there must…

Like Emma I think that in the NZ setting that sort of wide-scale cheating is unlikely to happen

yea, (that's totally right), i really should stop with these tenuous arguments, playing devil's advocate's assistant too long is hard work.

Like Emma I think that in the NZ setting that sort of wide-scale cheating is unlikely to happen (and, also like Emma, I've chosen schools (Discovery1 currently) where it's unlikely to be relevant) but, even if it were one of the this I'd like my children to learn…

I can't see why the new testing regime would cause this, given no previous testing regime has.

Clear national standards in reading, writing, and numeracy will be negotiated with the education sector. Secondly, all primary schools will be required to use assessment programmes that compare the progress of their students…

What if, in response to this new testing system, cheating becomes the norm? Meaning your children are competing not just with individual cheaters but whole networks of children cheating for a better future?

I can't see why the new testing regime would cause this, given no previous testing regime has.…

Dontchaluv human brains?

Love that ability to free-associate.

"Throwimwayleg"

(good Pidgin)

for "Wayleggo"

(good South Island shepherd speak to dogs...)

And yep Joe – great – indeed must – read-

And, in general, cheaters do eventually get caught out (if not by being caught in the act then by having to admit incompetence in a "real-world" situation they are only technically qualified for).

hence: Made in China, and the various connotations of that label on products. However, I feel,…

Anyone here read his "Wayleggo"? (Think that's the title, temporarily unable to access library.)

This? Great guy, great writer, great read.

Meaning your children are competing not just with individual cheaters but whole networks of children cheating for a better future?

If they are cheating then there is no way of accurately assessing their own progress and therefore no chance of their teachers knowing what it is they need to learn.…

Okay, I guess it's a fair question. Never, ever ever. Nor would I, nor would I tolerate that in my children.

Why not? What if, in response to this new testing system, cheating becomes the norm? Meaning your children are competing not just with individual cheaters but whole networks of…

Resistance is futile.

But fun.

Really? Because I usually have more fun when I give in.

You haven't given in if you never resisted.

Can I suggest that both versions of Emma log out and then log back in as themselves?

That's one of those sentences I never thought I'd hear.

Still, nice to see Isabel back to being Isabel. I'm sure it's much less traumatic for both our partners that way.

lets see if that's done it

Yay!

lets see if that's done it

I just want to know who I am today...

Can I suggest that both versions of Emma log out and then log back in as themselves?

I can't think of a way this could happen, but obviously, it'll be less amusing as it goes on.

My school life gets summed up as didn't. Didn't wag – no point as am one of the invisibles so would have been marked as present anyway.…

Everyone should probably be glad that I spent large chunks of today sitting in the sun turning my brain to gloop and therefore do not feel inclined to explore the potential for mayhem this situation could present.

Well I want massive props for not pretending to be Isabel pretending to…

Everyone should probably be glad that I spent large chunks of today sitting in the sun turning my brain to gloop and therefore do not feel inclined to explore the potential for mayhem this situation could present.

But fun.

Any idea how that happened (or am I just going mental?

I'm interested, reading about all this rebellion here, how many people here, cheated on exams?

I cheated once in a test in form two. I happened to catch a glimpse of my neighbour's paper. His answer was different to mine and I thought he know more about the subject than…

But we had come to an arrangement by the 4th form – as long as I came top…

I'm interested, reading about all this rebellion here, how many people here, cheated on exams?

At exams proper, never. Then again, we only had one exam at the end of three years of intermediate school, and another at the end of five years high school. Did I cheat during oral…

Wagging is not cheating.

Just remembered one other celebrated wagging, from 7th form. A Dutch exchange student was going back home so a bunch of us decided to go see her off at the airport.

It was a Friday, we didn't ask permission of school or parents.

They would…

I'm interested, reading about all this rebellion here, how many people here, cheated on exams?

Okay, I guess it's a fair question. Never, ever ever. Nor would I, nor would I tolerate that in my children.

I'm interested, reading about all this rebellion here, how many people here, cheated on exams?

I find Gerglish so much clearer than Chinglish. However they should find a native English speaking translator or text consultant.

liked words, grammar, sentence topology, and the like, but analysing literature, not so much.

Good grief man, you sound like a natural! ANyway, did you become a biologist?

I didn't wag at all (AFAICR). In fact I sort of did the opposite. In seventh form I noticed that all of my…

the thought of having to deal to 14 yr old boys, who would inevitably be taller than me? No. Really, it was nothing more complex than that at the time.

Nobody needs a reason to want to avoid 14 year old boys

And it was only a half day. It was totally hormonally driven. She had long blonde and I was pathetically grateful that she noticed me enough to invite me over to the party…

showing me where the scars for a breast reduction operation went. These things are so easily misinterpreted.

I so want to see that on a Tui Billboard

I managed (every now and then, not all the time) to persuade development teams that I could help free them from support work later if they let me have a hand in the interface. None of them liked support…

Do them worms have any link with our colleagues' failure to write understandable instructions (or these days, design knowable interfaces)?

Sacha, dude, I WISH I got to design the freaking interfaces. What made the BW tech manual such a bitch is that the system was based on Drupal but wrenched…

(Dinah – I think you'll find the copier with the purple copies was a Banda).

One of the benefits of a teacher in the house

Ah, the gestetner. That wonderful smell. I loved going in at the weekend to help make those awful purple copies. Loved getting the copies fresh off the printer from my teachers too.

Sorry, joined this discussion late. Christmas lunches and…

You could ask yourself, as I have, what you do with a South East Asian history degree. Paired with an art history major. Not necessarily a direct career pathway to early childhood education one might think.

Ha! I appreciate that dilemma. They sound a fascinating mix. I seriously have considered…

I've never been a tech writer, but I have done some in the past.

A recovering tech writer, prehaps?

You have to think like a novice is what i mean?

Yes, but not by being a novice. Understanding audiences and being quite conscious about the language conventions and other assumed knowledge are definitely part of it. Balancing that deliberateness against telling more experienced readers how to suck lemons is…

The knife method tends to damage the somewhat inaccurately named non-stick variety of cookware.

(drifting further and further off course...)

I agree, but recommend ditching your nonstick over ditching the knife method. Demote the old nonstick swiss roll/cookie pan(s) to cleaning/gardening uses and pick up some standard half-sheet pans from…

The knife method tends to damage the somewhat inaccurately named non-stick variety of cookware. I do a greek orange syrup cake (thanks Annabel) that the top reliably falls off when you turn it out, unless it's thoroughly lined.

I do a nice exploded diagram...

Rachel Prosser – Dr Jim was a special case – I remember a Classics class with him spent watching the film 'Top Secret' as it was a classic example…

I am multi-lingual and can write for translation (localisation), used to be writing for 12 languages to be localised; please don't curse me, I try.

I'm sure you do a sterling job. It would be quite something if they ever gave you free rein on the illustrations...

I'm particularly proud of my instructions for making mitred corners in the paper lining for sponge roll tins,

Love that chocolate sponge roll recipe – I had an obsession once to make the perfick one, just like mum's, but alas, it cracked on rolling. Still tasted damned fine. The Kenwood…

I notice your winky face, but hasn't the point been made on the other thread...

This is a "I know you weren't being serious, but I want to debate the point anyway" comment?

I've never been a tech writer, but I have done some in the past. Hopefully that's not…

*cough* Another tech writer here...

Is this tech writing as in manuals or tech writing as in writing about new technology?

Because if the latter, me too I guess.

Safety note; we would advise leaving the cake tin to cool prior to cake removal...

This depends on the cake type. If you leave your genoise to cool in the tin, you will be sorry.

instructions for making mitred corners in the paper lining for sponge roll tins

Timesaving hint: line the bottom only, don't bother with the sides. When the sponge roll comes out of the oven, run a paring knife around the edges and then unmold.

This may seem wasteful, but bear the…

Not that anyone ever reads the stuff we write, mind.

When doing the Bardic Web tech manual, I was severely tempted to change 'permissions' to 'persimmons' throughout, and see if anyone noticed.

I was one of those kids that somehow ended up being a year ahead of the kids with whom I'd…

Degrees in acountancy, history and philosophy here (greedy over achiever!). Another area…

anything where you're trying to tell someone how to use a system. It's a surprisingly wide field....

So, do you have be techno-geeky for this, understand it all yourself, or is it actually quite useful to be at the new-user end of the spectrum – as then you don't have…

*cough* Another tech writer here.

ok, this is just getting silly.

What does a tech writer do – is it something like gathering all the relevant info for a set of processes...

That, and writing the user manuals, online help, etc for software, plus writing maintenance manuals for machining equipment... anything where you're trying to tell someone how to use a…

What does anyone do with a history degree now anyway?

More history degrees!

Also, everything I know about the speed at which cats fall, I learned from PATs.

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

*cough* Another tech writer here. Though I did dabble in governance/compliance at my last job. Got into it as several other people did: the old "What do you do with an MA in Philosophy?", realised that the chance of…

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

What does a tech writer do – is it something like gathering all the relevant info for a set of processes, breaking it into logical steps, written so that a newbie can grasp it? Sort of?

It gets scarier – I believe we have a certain triple-initial'd acquaintance in common, too. New Zealand – she is a small country.

Ah, that'd be you, me, and two other people on this thread.

To be a school "reformer" is to support:

§ a heavy reliance on fill-in-the-bubble standardized tests to evaluate students and schools, generally in place of more authentic forms of assessment;

§ the imposition of prescriptive,…

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

It gets scarier – I believe we have a certain triple-initial'd acquaintance in common, too. New Zealand – she is a small country.

Myself, I'm not a high achiever, the gardens overgrown, there's leaks in the roof, the car needs an oil change and I've got unfinished art projects, literally stacked to the roof.

Ditto to that too. I don't know if I did the tests talked about on here – i presume…

Almost enough now to challenge the PAS Women's team to a game – though there may be conflicted loyalties.

Imagine our play-by-play diagrams, though.

This tech-writer thing is starting to get a wee bit scary.

Liking something doesn't mean it's good for our long-term well-being though (see also my relationship…

I…

I, too, was a non-wagger what with it being a small town where being caught/spotted was almost certain and where there were precious few attractions that made the risk worthwhile.
My old man was…

I am on the Never Wagged team. And the Tech Writer team, for that matter

Almost enough now to challenge the PAS Women's team to a game – though there may be conflicted loyalties.

I wonder if Public Address is a haven of PA test lovers?

I don't recall my actual feelings about them. What I do recall is going home after doing one in Standard 1 (I think?) and reporting to my mother that there had been an incredibly difficult arithmetic problem -…

What does anyone do with a history degree now anyway?

I've found the research, analytical and communication skills pretty useful in a few jobs so far. High-end transferable skills for the win.

What does anyone do with a history degree now anyway?

Become a librarian. Sigh.

I don't remember those tests, Kyle. But that doesn't mean they didn't happen. My memory: iz not so grate, aksually.

Someone needs to cross-reference all the people who have claimed loved for their PATs, with those people bitching about standardised testing on the 'Soundbite to Policy' thread, and send them a 'please explain' ;)

I notice your winky face, but hasn't the point been made on the other thread that…

I'm prone to fits of intense activity followed by fits of intense arsing about. I can put up with any amount of ridiculousness in the short term.

My partner (also not the most devoted to his schooling) and I both have a problem with not understanding when things are 'not…

Someone needs to cross-reference all the people who have claimed loved for their PATs, with those people bitching about standardised testing on the 'Soundbite to Policy' thread, and send them a 'please explain' ;)

I quite enjoy filling in forms and I tend to be good at tests (sometimes to…

Standardised testing for every kiwi schoolchild, oddly enough..

Someone needs to cross-reference all the people who have claimed loved for their PATs, with those people bitching about standardised testing on the 'Soundbite to Policy' thread, and send them a 'please explain' ;)

I have no memories of these tests, though…

I can see the appeal of technical writing

You're hired!

I liked them a lot too. Not least, because I felt good at them, but also because they were tests you didn't and couldn't prepare for, which were my kind of tests.

Exactly. No pressure really because there is nothing you can do to prepare you just have to focus…

Oh, and at last, a cultural reference that Giovanni doesn't get. That's a relief – he was showing everyone else up.

Of course it doesn't help to live in the land of the long wide acronym. And school seems to bring out the worst, for some reason. I'm a trustee…

I have no earthly idea what you guys are even talking about.

Standardised testing for every kiwi schoolchild, oddly enough..

Ooooh I loved those PATs.

Me too – aced them, but I remember the focused internal satisfaction of me against the test, not really to do with other people at all. And I still want to call it a PAT test, so there.

I longed to get to play with…

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

Loved them. Looked forward to them.

Klutz at sportz.

Oh, and at last, a cultural reference that Giovanni doesn't get. That's a relief – he was showing everyone else up.

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

I have no earthly idea what you guys are even talking about.

But then, tests were always a chance to show I'd done well. I looked upon them as self-esteem affirming events. Unlike Cross-Country.

Or netball.

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

Loved them. Multi-guess tests are a bunch of fun.

Gotta be careful how you colour in those little circles, though.

I wonder if Public Address is a haven of PA test lovers?

That would be interesting. Anyone else?

I wonder if Public Address is a haven of PA test lovers?

I used to love doing those tests. That sounds show-offy but its not – the idea of doing well or not doing well never entered my head. They were just fun. .

I loved PA Tests.

I totally relate to the episode of Friends when Monica takes the night class…

The odd thing was – well, I think its odd – I got a really high score in maths in those PAT tests they used to give at the start of the year in around Std 4-Form 2.

I used to love doing those tests. That sounds show-offy but its…

It was one of the things I enjoyed about writing my Listener columns — the challenge of relating something important, but complex and jargon-ridden, in as clear a way as possible.

You're a geek translator, my man, and a top-flight one too.

I've never liked having to be somewhere on principle, and I dislike the wasted time and endless distractions of going to an office to work. I like to have control over the use of my time.

Myself, I'm a lazy, lazy person, who's happy to just go along with things…

I dunno if my self-employment is down to my truanting, my weird sleep patterns, my protracted illness, or having a special-needs child. I have never been very comfortable working in a hugely structured environment IF those structures don't make sense to me.

I've never liked having to be somewhere on…

All this talk of wagging has made me wonder: are truants more likely to end up self-employed?

I dunno if my self-employment is down to my truanting, my weird sleep patterns, my protracted illness, or having a special-needs child. I have never been very comfortable working in a hugely structured…

All this talk of wagging has made me wonder: are truants more likely to end up self-employed?

Interesting question. I was thinking more in terms of what this thread says about the people who wash up here: we seem to have high-achievers who truanted, and high-achievers who didn't.

Although, as…

Which is not a reason to hold a kid back but is a very good illustration of why you should teach kids as individuals and not expect 30 little people to all be working at the same level all the time.

I'm sure a lot of teachers would be delighted…

I got very little out of school academically except a counter-productive faith in my own cleverness and a profound mistrust of authority. In retrospect, I feel very sorry for my teachers.

Goodness, that hit the nail on the head. This year I went to my school's 50th reunion and was…

As a non-truant, eldest child, who ended up in one of the professions (law), before leaving it for a more creative, less mentally constrained life and the precariousity of self-employment, I wonder if…

I got very little out of school academically except a counter-productive faith in my own cleverness and a profound mistrust of authority. In retrospect, I feel very sorry for my teachers.

What Stephen said.

Which is not a reason to hold a kid back but is a very good illustration of why you should teach kids as individuals and not expect 30 little people to all be working at the same level all the time.

That's true, but if you do have 30 kids,…

Which you can trace to already knowing most things that they were teaching well before they started to teach it to the class.

Which is not a reason to hold a kid back but is a very good illustration of why you should teach kids as individuals and not expect…

I'm trying to figure out how one would stop a kid who was ready to learn to read from doing it themselves.

I found school tremendously boring for the first few years. It led to behavioural problems, not paying attention, hanging out with the 'wrong sort' etc.

Which you can…

I'm trying to figure out how one would stop a kid who was ready to learn to read from doing it themselves.

I asked my mother (who btw was a teacher) how to teach my children to read. Her response was 'good god, how do you stop them?'.

I was…

Back then the official thinking was parents should not teach kids to read before they started school but should leave it to the experts.

I'm trying to figure out how one would stop a kid who was ready to learn to read from doing it themselves. Unless you just stop…

So there goes any anecdotal correlation between wagging / bunking and high grades.

Never said there was one.

Never said that you did. But given that we're all quite good at reading texts and subtexts, and drawing meaning from the juxtaposition of facts, and lots of people were putting "wagging…

It's the intrigue of them, don't you think? They're open-ended, riddles almost, so you are hooked into thinking about what they mean – quite different to being told what to do.

I'm not convinced teenagers have the attention span to interpret these types of questions for what they are. I'm…

Back then the official thinking was parents should not teach kids to read before they started school but should leave it to the experts.

I'm not sure what the official thinking is now, but personally I'd endorse that.

I knew how to read before I got to school, and my…

A sonnet can be an absolute joy to write even though it can be hard work.

When I was looking at ways to present the crossbow story, someone suggested setting it as Shakespearean drama, given the elements of melodrama inherent in it. As a result, I have a couple of…

I just remember it was something I already knew. I was utterly furious.

This is just about the cutest story ever. Awww.

Oh, I forgot to answer the question. Rangi, 1988-1991 (no seventh form – I skipped it, much to my teachers' disgust). We called it wagging and I think…

I don't think I ever wagged from high school except maybe in the 7th form. I was in the s**t a lot in the 7th form. 'Attitude'.

The rest of the time...well I was a fairly dreamy kid. Very Very…

And for Mark T; maybe I've got you wrong but I get the distinct impression you believe all authority figures have to be given respect. Well if that's what floats your boat then I wish you all the best.

yeah Felix, you've got it wrong. Not at all. I'm more…

And they address the vexing question of how one is 'meant to be', how…

I have no idea about whether it was wagging or bunking, because I never did either, and only ever had one detention, when the whole class was detained, contrary to the Geneva convention, as…

Good schools teach that with sensible rules and teachers who can tell you which one you broke and what you need to do about it, and will listen if it turns out they've misunderstood something.

Really good schools get the kids involved in forming and evaluating the rules.

I was however a persistent truant at primary and intermediate, with my parents' full knowledge – for reasons not unconnected with an item in today's news. Being…