I am at present only able to get online in 15-minutes bursts every few hours

So are able to edit then? ;)
Got me rain coat.

In my defence, I am at present only able to get online in 15-minutes bursts every few hours (for reasons too complicated to go into). Which means my posts are a little more 'from the hip' than they otherwise would be.

females

Being called a 'female' makes me feel a bit like a zoological specimen. It might just be me, though.

there's no evidence for it that can be shared. There is also no evidence against it.

That's enough for me. Puts dualism on the same level as the teapot god :)
Though I'm uncertain what you mean by 'that can be shared". You think there's an essentially inexpressable experience of…

generalisation mine-field ahead, please read tolerantly

Yeah, meant to put something like that in my post, too. But couldn't think how to phrase it....

Anyone else think that generally females are a bit better at this than men are?

I did notice this difference with the (oh gods, okay, generalisation mine-field ahead, please read tolerantly) working-class guys I knew at high school, but at uni KAOS was (probably disproportionately) full of suave bastards. Like…

What being born articulate allows me to do, however, is to win arguments even if I'm wrong.

it doesn't require you to think on your feet as quickly as a face to face conversation does. It gives you the time to consider your response, find the right words

Been meaning…

Or more like both and in spades, if the brains refer to any actual humans that I've ever met.

My head hurts.

Although at least one charmer has told me to my face that I am simply wasting my time, because it is clearly much too hard. So far as I can tell these individuals are not motivated by religion, so much as a paucity of imagination.

After much time wasted…

I know what "merchant banker" and "Berkshire hunt" are rhyming slang for

Though since the credit crunch in London the merchant bankers prefer to be called by the less abusive name of "fucking wanker".

[shutting up now]

Or be a fool for a few minutes.

I once wrote and sang a song during a Tangi for a family member. My turn came after a group of 14 children with angelic voices had sung a Waiata in perfect harmony, bringing most to tears.

There were tears of another…

*except for being asked to sing, I deeply hate being forced to sing.

Its the custom in many Pacific places to sing/to entertain your hosts in some way, not just with Maori. A group of us had fun in Kiribati with this custom. The locals were excellent singers. We put…

Bart, you've got it easy. I know a cosmologist. He goes to dinner parties and people ask him if there's a God.

In America, mind.

In New Zealand too. (Unless you are talking about someone else — it is very possible that Russell knows more than one cosmologist. Personally,…

it sounds horrible

heh don't worry I'm not emotionally scarred by it at all. I didn't mean to make it sound so bad :).

My biggest memories of it come from primary school in Palmerston North. Where "gangs" of Maori would insult white geeks like me. Yes almost certainly derived…

Socially-constructed power is the difference between being called darkie and honky. Racism is not a level playing field, and it's so much about context. Insults…

I have no probs with being referred to as pakeha or palagi ...

Which is great for you. Some people also apparently have no problem with being called Darkie. Yet I'm pretty certain that trying to get "Darkie" instituted as the official name for an ethnic grouping might raise some…

Howevah, when being stonewalled by the Australian Commonwealth bureaucracy a few years back, all my attempts at articulacy and quoting of the rules (I'd done my homework) got me nowhere. Breaking

I've been genuinely distressed by direct experience of Australian state government…

I'm struggling to think of what "climate scientist" rhymes with.

Socialist?
;-)

And, ChisW, I think you will find that Oklahoma is land-locked...

I'm pretty sure I've seen 'Climate Scientist' used as an insult.

Sorry, I know what "merchant banker" and "Berkshire hunt" are rhyming slang for, but I'm struggling to think of what "climate scientist" rhymes with.

It happens less now. But now it is more along the lines of "what would a Pakeha know about ..." which is more subtle and reliant on tone to…

Triple negative! Sweet.

As a result my view of the word is that it is an insult and intended as such. Hence I am…

The police seem to have an interesting time with that, but then they're trying to describe someone's glanced exterior rather than surveying a person about what cultures they belong to.

Yes, and in some health research for instance, they may be more interested in what race (i.e. genetic traits) a…

do they say "I'm European" or do they say "I'm Dutch"

…

Caucasian?
And would that provide any reliable information?

The usefulness of terms like Caucasian (or any other generic ethnic terms like Hispanic, African American, Asian etc) surely depends on the context. In American crime drama (where I've learnt everything about America) these terms appear to be used by cops to…

If a Dutch person is in say, the US and they are asked which ethnic group they belong to, do they say "I'm European" or do they say "I'm Dutch".

Caucasian?

And would that provide any reliable information? Wikipedia shows well that can of worms, wriggling especially vigorously on…

For what it's worth (given your 'no respect' comment, probably not much) I am also happy to call myself a New Zealander, Pakeha, and as I mentioned Kiwi. I'm…

the biggest shift is towards multiple ethnic identities so the short answer is yes. Tick as many options as you like.

I always tick three. Boo-yah, statisticians!

If a Dutch person is in say, the US and they are asked which ethnic group they belong to, do they say "I'm European" or do they say "I'm Dutch".

Caucasian?

Articulated. Absolutely. I remember that about you.

The way you articulated at uni did make you very persuasive.

Um. That's true. I blame the yoga. Also, shut up.

Recordari, with all due respect (none at this particular queried moment in time) what shit are you talking about here?

I would venture an assertion: most ANZers know precisely their familial & racial backgrounds. Most of us are very happy to assert…

The way you articulated at uni did make you very persuasive.

But New Zealander is a nationality – and so it belongs to all of us, not one group who tend to claim it. Pakeha on the other hand…

My wife is Korean and we have a daughter.

What's her ethnicity? New Zealand European Korean?

What if she marries a guy who is a New Zealand Samoan…

???

just incidentally, in the south, we…

Mostly I wish people would get over the myth

History is against you on that one.

Having some sort of explicit 2-component options makes sense to me – like New Zealand Tongan or Chinese New Zealander.…

One of my faves – trying to explain why "New Zealander" is not an ethnicity. In 140-character bites.

Bloody colony, innit?

Someone even wrote a paper on it. Seeking an ethnic identity: Is “New Zealander” a valid ethnic group?.
The conclusion;

Strauss (1959: 15) stresses the importance of language on…

Bart, you've got it easy. I know a cosmologist. He goes to dinner parties and people ask him if there's a God.

In America, mind.

And what does he say?

So as one caught on the other side of this dilemma ... Sometimes the problem is not that I can't explain the concepts in English that the listener understands.

Bart, you've got it easy. I know a cosmologist. He goes to dinner parties and people ask him if there's a…

Curiously, I wrote a manual on how a genetic algorithm I wrote worked. People found it fascinating, and…

(Why isn't it *all* jelly?)

'cause then it would be a Jelly-Block. But I feel your pain – a mere chocolate coated ice-cream was the precursor – the Topsy, I think it was. That was always the stink one in the bag. The only thing stinker was one of those…

But I do come from a time when a Jelly-Tip was like a big reward.

I still think a Jelly-Tip is a big reward, but I'm always so sad to get to the ice cream part. More jelly! More jelly! (Why isn't it *all* jelly?)

the ability to translate specialist jargon for the lay-person without dumbing it down is rare and precious indeed.

So as one caught on the other side of this dilemma ... Sometimes the problem is not that I can't explain the concepts in English that the listener understands. But instead that…

LBN. Yip. Choc Bar. You can read all about it in the TipTop library. Jelly Tips since 1950s? That's…

Are we there yet?

Just waiting for the driver.
Who's probably haranguing someone somewhere.
And my ice cream's melting.

* Compare your opponent to Adolf Hitler.
This is your heavy artillery, for when your opponent is obviously right and you are spectacularly wrong. Bring Hitler up…

I married Irish. I'm used to losing arguments. Well, at least that's what she thinks.

ROFLNUI – In my own head I have never lost an argument. Meanwhile on planet earth.

In true Irish style the object of an argument is never the search for truth: it is the display…

Innit?

Are we there yet?

That'll learn them hairy-arsed sesquipebastardalians.

Yeah! on your Pony said to no one in particular Nice poetree that man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF3wXSvJ10k&feature=related

Also...

Absofuckinawesomethingorotherlutely!

That'll learn them hairy-arsed sesquipebastardalians.

Why does it do that!

They get more commission I guess. It is very annoying though. You think 'Yusss, I've won', and then 'Oh, who's that bloody trying to outbid me now?' Bloody 'auto-extension'.

hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia.

That woid's so long it won't load, or is it my connection?
I can still watch my auction on Trademe, which is closing ....closing ....closing....hoping no one puts in another bid 'cause it will be another 3 mins of closing ....closing.....closing.
Why does it do that!

something that depends on whether you agree or not with what they have to say

For me it's more *how* they say it – can handle different ideas, though that doesn't mean I'll go easy on poorly-thought-out ones either.

A little bit o true story

Beautiful. Don't feel so bad having prompted the posting of this.

sesquipedalian

Yes, especially for those with hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia.

There's also a fine line between being articulate and being a smug, patronising smart-arse.

Yeah, an' if anyone goes sesquipedalian on yo arse s/he ain't articulate.
Right.

but would still prefer to look more like Sara Palin, than sound like her.

Linda, you make Palin look like a pig without lipstick and I would rather hear what you had to say than that Pitbull any day.
;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEesfgSJJmI

Islander – the ability to translate specialist jargon for the lay-person without dumbing it down is rare and precious indeed.

Yes this. TEFL teachers of any merit learn that just because people can't speak English, doesn't mean you have to shout and treat them like idiots.

There's also a fine…

I would love to be able to set up some kind of
-?interpretation system?
where people with my s.i.l GP's degree of knowledge
and various medical specialists' especial word useage
and my kind of knowledge of…

translate specialist jargon for the lay-person

And those who are often best-placed to do that are not the time-starved specialists, but others with an educational or communications bent and enough subject knowledge not to get it wrong.

I have a fairly good grasp of the english language but was initially stumped, sometime mid-last year, by a lovely…

The best advice I have received is to ask whoever you're dealing with what they would do in your situation. It's not a guaranteed success, but it can draw out surprisingly useful tips.

Except when the doctor then says "I'd have refused the test in the first place" which is…

And then there's people who don't talk alot.

Or you could morph into Sara Palin – if you do.

[redacted larger post] – 'cos it was inarticulate – but would still prefer to look more like Sara Palin, than sound like her.

Do not act as if not talking alot is a virtue, because it is not.

It's something of an NZ tradition, particularly with blokes. I think it was Peter Wells who once said that in certain quarters it's seen as something of a triumph to get a sentence out without…

Obama most certainly won the job because of his articulationary…

However, their message that National is quite deliberately widening the gap must avoid naive phrases like "failing to address inequality" that misunderstand the govt's motivations and let them off the hook – but…

It's Language, Bro

Indeed it is. The Labour party would do well to consider that. Currently, they're consistently on the back foot, largely, IMO, because they allow the other guys to frame the discussion.

Or because when they try to frame it, they bungle it.The Axe the Tax campaign was…

I found that a utility company we've been having difficulties with suggests a slightly different wording. If you call them, and the person answering the call doesn't sort things out, you say, "I'd like to escalate this call" and they pass you further up the tree.

The best advice I…

But we can try to be more aware of the problems of the inarticulate, more aware of our privilege, and more patient with their pathetic witterings.

Fuck that! Whoops was that the wrong thing to say.
Umm .....it's been tried and it failed. All it does is motivate a plethora…

It's Language, Bro

Indeed it is. The Labour party would do well to consider that. Currently, they're consistently on the back foot, largely, IMO, because they allow the other guys to frame the discussion.

"He's not an artist, he's just one of those little cunts that draws skulls."

Like a BP Graphics Department?.

Presence and persistent plausibility will always surpass articulate academic argument. . . . First one to swear out of frustration loses.
;-)

Never funny to swear in anger, but highly effective in dealing with certain forms of overinstitutionalised BS. For example, "He's not an artist, he's just one of those…

If you don't say much, your level of articulateness (articulation? articularity?) will atrophy. I'm not advocating this.

Thank you. I feel my whole approach is vindicated. Others might not thank you as much ;-)

In terms of articulation (not of trucks) by degrees, I often find when speaking with qualified…

I think you can stop using your articulacy to be an arse to people but dropping the base facility with words would be more like faking a limp

I'm pretty much suggesting the former (and also suggesting that people who do this are unlikely to stop). But I think it's…

I am verbally compelling apparently.

And I need to restrain myself and save it for the important stuff. Which is a lesson I wish I had learned at about, oh, 16. Except for the stuff with girls, which is just fair game of course.…

I found…

You can drop being articulate as easily as putting down a gun

In my experience this is more commonly referred to as 'silence'.

You can drop being articulate as easily as putting down a gun

I'm not convinced. I think you can stop using your articulacy to be an arse to people but dropping the base facility with words would be more like faking a limp – possible for a while but requiring…

a limb report

yes, those do seem to be prosthetic legs stacked under the house

You can drop being articulate as easily as putting down a gun

Not necessarily true if you're an aspie. And if it were that simple, there wouldn't be such a market for meditation gurus and…

This seems particularly common when enforcing the building code.

Scenario:
Council…

I've been informed that being persistent and hopeless or persistent and shouting are also techniques that work well with bureaucracy. The thing is to make it more bother for officials to not sort out your problems.

To a point. Being articulate helps you explain your problem in terms of something…

You can drop being articulate as easily as putting down a gun, or giving money away. It can be done, it's just unlikely to be done.

I'd add a few exclamation marks. Ye gods.

And asterisks should be outside the punctuation.

I'm picking at least Ireland

Not if my neighbours are anything to go by. OTOH, they're Northern Irish, which, depending who you talk to, doesn't count.

As Joe discovered, reckless abandon with your own property does tend to flick attitudinal switches hastily, but I wouldn't bank on it as a solve-all. Nice work Joe. I'm guessing that the umbrella breakage following a warm…

I've always been too chicken to try these techniques, myself.

In any disagreement with a public agency, you will be better served if you are articulate, literate and persuasive.
More than once, I've felt privileged in this respect.

I don't doubt it. Howevah, when being stonewalled by the Australian Commonwealth bureaucracy a few years back, all my attempts at articulacy…

The time I made my Income Support caseworker get the book off the shelf and look up the law that stated that I was eligible for the dole is a tremendous example of this sort of privilege in action.

It was a doctor in my case. A doctor at Student…

No. I'm sorry, but that has far less to do with being born articulate than with having the correct gonads. No level of skill at argument avails a husband…

And we love argument-

but we dont relish people who confuse rhythym & repetition as the sole form of dialogue, nor people…

In any disagreement with a public agency, you will be better served if you are articulate, literate and persuasive.

The time I made my Income Support caseworker get the book off the shelf and look up the law that stated that I was eligible for the dole is a tremendous…

In any disagreement with a public agency, you will be better served if you are articulate, literate and persuasive.

More than once, I've felt privileged in this respect.

now imagine growing up in a country where *everyone* can do that.

I didn't realise you were of Dutch extraction too Gio!

What being born articulate allows me to do, however, is to win arguments even if I'm wrong.

Okay, now imagine growing up in a country where *everyone* can do that.

*Footnote of no particular relevance, other than to support Sacha's argument.

And all because I chose to retain my own cultural practices in the workplace.

There should be a treaty claim over the right to swear in the workplace. Currently we're mostly just doing it under our breath, so we're being repressed.

[Check please! And hurry, as I'm about to be run over by rhetoric.]