Public Address | Cafe | Up Front: A Word About Safety

Moz

Tue, 05 Jun 2018 13:07:31 +1200

At the risk of derailing into the topic of jury trials, there's been a wee outbreak of moaning in the UK about their stupid jury-protection laws. It's vaguely relevant because they refer to the Aotearoa research. That's one of the very few actual cold hard looks as how juries work.…

TracyMac

Sat, 02 Jun 2018 06:21:29 +1200

In my experience as a member of both, the BDSM communities are not as fragmented as the queer ones, at least in Australia and NZ.

Of course, yes, there are sub-communities with particular interests, and leather men tend to be very much into their own scene (not many public kink…

nzlemming

Thu, 31 May 2018 22:24:24 +1200

Somehow I have trouble imagining the legal system saying "oh yes, any reasonable person would expect him to be happy with that".

Sadly, you would be immensely surprised and saddened by what the legal system might expect.

Moz

Thu, 31 May 2018 09:44:19 +1200

I also can't help but wonder whether anyone involved in that trial ever considered the gender-flipped version of events. How would they have reacted if she had gone round to his place, bent him over the banister and pegged him until he bled? Somehow I have trouble imagining the legal…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 31 May 2018 07:46:11 +1200

by the idea of switching from adversarial to inquisitorial trials

I look forward to a post about your conclusions.

From everything I've read, the problem is NOT the jury. The problem is the use of the adversarial legal system. There have been reviews that have come to the conclusion that…

Emma Hart

Wed, 30 May 2018 20:46:00 +1200

On another note, would you consider using the terms top/bottom as more generic terms for the parties in a kink scenario? All doms are tops, but not all tops are doms (ahem).

So terminology is always problematic, but there are really two main reasons I've made the choices I have.…

Craig Young

Wed, 30 May 2018 17:14:19 +1200

I tend to regard myself as vanilla with strawberry elements. That said, it is one of the hallmarks of LGBT BDSM community life that it is safe, sane and consensual. For the LGBT leather community, the horrific Colin Ireland anti-leather serial killer case was directly motivated by the anti-leather Operation…

Stephen R

Wed, 30 May 2018 14:51:46 +1200

I was called for jury service in a trial of a skinhead allegedly assaulting someone. The Prosecution objected to me.

The Prosecution!!!

Male pattern baldness does not equal sympathy for skinheads!

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 30 May 2018 09:50:41 +1200

I've no idea whether the ability to assess the suitability of potential jurors by simply casting an eye over the cut of their jib is part of a lawyer's formal training, but I suspect there's at least a teensy element of cynicism in how it's applied.

That was one of…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 30 May 2018 09:49:07 +1200

So if you don't like judges and juries are problematic, how do you want these cases decided?

FWIW in the past when I've thought about this, the best I can come up with is some sort of "professional juror" – people, not necessarily lawyers or judges, who've undergone some level…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 30 May 2018 06:56:23 +1200

People, including juries, need to understand...

While I've tried not to take it personally, I still wonder occasionally why I was rejected for jury service while the guy in the beige safari suit with the obvious toupee got to stay. I've no idea whether the ability to assess the suitability…

TracyMac

Wed, 30 May 2018 03:41:18 +1200

I get sick of this stupid trope that consent is ONLY granted in a kink context via the use of safe words.

I don't use safe words at all in private play, except when someone I'm playing with happens to use them. I personally prefer the words "stop", "slow down",…

Moz

Tue, 29 May 2018 18:03:16 +1200

Inquisitorial could be better, but as I said:

the law should be restated to remind participants that the "typical person" and "ordinary" person are both middle-aged women not entirely of Anglo-Saxon ethnicity.

I would also like to see experts selected similarly. Let the court of appeal bring the full weight…

Emma Hart

Tue, 29 May 2018 16:56:40 +1200

I am intrigued (to the point where I am currently wading through someone's PhD comparing rape trials in Britain and the Netherlands) by the idea of switching from adversarial to inquisitorial trials.

Nick Russell

Tue, 29 May 2018 16:29:44 +1200

So if you don't like judges and juries are problematic, how do you want these cases decided?

For what it's worth, the High Court has about 40 judges and I think 15 of them are women. Not all of the men are white although most of them are. Hardly a…

Moz

Tue, 29 May 2018 15:50:58 +1200

The trouble with the "panel of experts" is that typically that means older, white, men. Often in legal systems that means especially preferring to use judges. Who have traditionally produced uneven outcomes in things like rape cases.

I'm inclined to the view that the law should be restated to remind…

Nick Russell

Tue, 29 May 2018 15:39:33 +1200

It has been suggested somewhere recently (can't recall where) that the time has arrived to stop using juries for these sort of cases and rely instead on some sort of panel of experts. It's one way of avoiding myths about consent. But the entire logic of using randomly selected juries…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 29 May 2018 14:46:26 +1200

Everything else aside, I am so bummed that the question still apparently being asked is "Did she refuse consent?" not "Did he get consent?" But then I also thought "my partner is vomiting" was an obvious sign that something was very wrong, so...

I get it – consent isn't always…

Emma Hart

Tue, 29 May 2018 14:35:32 +1200

The jury instructions at the end of this were that it was not rape if an ordinary person in the same situation would reasonably believe they had consent.

Everything else aside, I am so bummed that the question still apparently being asked is "Did she refuse consent?" not "Did he…

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 29 May 2018 14:20:43 +1200

I served on a jury just once. It was a rape trial. Nothing as potentially nuanced as any sort of BDSM.

The jury instructions at the end of this were that it was not rape if an ordinary person in the same situation would reasonably believe they had consent.

Unfortunately…

nzlemming

Tue, 29 May 2018 14:15:51 +1200

Oh, that sucks so bad. I hate self-appointed experts with a passion.

Moz

Tue, 29 May 2018 13:36:58 +1200

And my friends wonder why I was so absolutely dead set on turning up for jury duty no matter what. And getting picked, even if I had to lawyer-language my way through any challenges.

This. Is. Why.

Public Address

Tue, 29 May 2018 13:36:58 +1200

Discussion from blog post.