PS According to google, LOLporn isn't what I expected it to be.

The lolporn I've seen is precisely what you'd expect it to be. "2257 documentz – we haz them" sort of thing. Maybe you're looking at the wrong lolporn?

a publication may be in contempt of court by breaching the sub judice rule if it creates a real risk – not just a remote possibility – of prejudice to the fairness of a trial

There's a summary of Parliament's position as at February this year here. The Privileges Committee reported back on it recently but I don't know how…

Franks was wrong, in any case: the accused didn't go for insanity, he went for a guilty plea on manslaughter only.

Is there anything that makes you think that that would be illegal? The courts and police aren't immune from public scrutiny.

I agree, but nor can the public say anything they want about a live case.

In theory any expression of opinion on someone's guilt or innocence might be at…

surely Franks was arguably commenting on the facts of the case by stating that Weatherston was clearly the killer (remember, before Weatherston admitted the act in court) and that he was likely to manufacture an insanity defence to get off. All while the matter was before the court.

Not just…

That he realises the rule doesn't prevent his discussing that? =)

Well maybe, and I'm not a media lawyer, so am hardly an expert on sub judice.

Still, surely Franks was arguably commenting on the facts of the case by stating that Weatherston was clearly the killer (remember, before Weatherston…

There is also cat porn. I checked.

One thing I really appreciate about the internet is its thoroughness.

Also, I would like my brain to STOP writing lolcat captions for porn now.

PS According to google, LOLporn isn't what I expected it to be.

Well okay, but as long as there's porn and pictures of grammatically-adorable cats, I'm not sure he's going to believe you.

There is also cat porn. I checked.

Well okay, but as long as there's porn and pictures of grammatically-adorable cats, I'm not sure he's going to believe you.

Yeah, there's another thing: it's going to help me avoid lolcatz! And that in turn is going to free up valuable time for porn.

Your man is a genius.

I keep mine in a compartment.

I keep mine...
wait for it...
in a container.
tsk boom!!

Tell your partner this is my new favourite thing ever on the Internet.

Well okay, but as long as there's porn and pictures of grammatically-adorable cats, I'm not sure he's going to believe you.

Interclue told me I didn't want to click on that ...

Product placement!

It worked, too. I had to google to see what you were referring to. Before I read this thread, I was Interclueless.

Mine take up the whole living room leaving just shy of a square metre in which to disco.

You know how you throw everything out after an exam? Yeah...

Regardless of who developed it (disclaimer: my partner),

Tell your partner this is my new favourite thing ever on the Internet.

I keep mine in a compartment.

Mine take up the whole living room leaving just shy of a square metre in which to disco.

I have a deep sense of ethics! In a box, just over here.

I keep mine in a compartment.

so much for the sub judice doctrine...

What's Stephen Franks' excuse? He's a lawyer after all.

That he realises the rule doesn't prevent his discussing that? =)

Interclue told me I didn't want to click on that ...

Product placement!

I have a deep sense of ethics! In a box, just over here.

Regardless of who developed it (disclaimer: my partner), the thing I use it for most often is determining whether things people link to at…

What's Stephen Franks' excuse? He's a lawyer after all.

Interclue told me I didn't want to click on that ...

Product placement!

This would be what's behind that warning.

Interclue told me I didn't want to click on that, but I still did.

I am hoping the defence is going to be that he had some kind of psychotic episode, blacked out, whatever, rather than that Sophie Elliot in some way had…

This would be what's behind that warning.

Cripes.

But I did like this bit:

I will delete any comments which seek to blame the victim.

New policy, then ...

She said if they had contributed anything about the case to any internet blog sites, they should also stand aside.

It meant they would not be able to bring independence and objectivity to the case.

Weatherston pleads guilty to manslaughter

I'm surprised an inveterate pinko socialist like you even needs to ask.

How very dare you!

I have a spine, thankyou very much.

So if I can't make lame-arse jokes at my own expense, who can I make them at?

The taxpayer's expense, dummie! Always the taxpayer's.

I'm surprised an inveterate pinko socialist like you even needs to ask.

So if I can't make lame-arse jokes at my own expense, who can I make them at?

Well that's quite right. Unfortunately, tongue in cheek does not translate well to internet text interaction (well I can't spot it, anyway).

People (including in this thread) make rather lame jokes about lawyers' ethics.

Well, I do work in the legal profession, albeit not as one of those fancy-speakin', high-falutin' big-city lawyer types, and as such I am bound by exactly the same ethical code as you.

So if I can't make…

I tried quite hard to verify that I was spelling Comeskey's name correctly. I'm pretty sure it's right, though it returns hits for all kinds of variations.

Well, according to the Law Society Register of Lawyers (direct link to result not possible) a Mr Christopher Patrick Comeskey is an Auckland…

Whether it does is another matter, because there is still section 43(1),…

Then there's the Louise Nicholas case. The defendants' convictions were inadmissible, which I'm fine with. But the complainant's entire sexual history was fair game. How is this in any way just? If their previous behaviour isn't relevant to the incidents under question, then surely neither is hers.

Especially when, IIRC,…

Her lawyer Chris Comesky told the judge a drug conviction would ruin her plans to visit her biological father in Greece and hinder her career.

"She is also interested in a career in the tour boat industry," Comeskey said.

Anyone…

But I think there are perfectly legitimate questions to be asked about whether discharges without conviction are being applied dispassionately, or whether there's levels of bias involved.

See also the diversion scheme.

There's several doors out of the (container) prison for us middle class white folks.

Yes, because they're all assholes who deserve it. Lol, this will cause your blood to boil, Craig, but that line is getting close to I/S's "national's bourgeois rich prick mates" territory.

Ouch... now that hurts because its true. :) But I think there are perfectly legitimate questions to be asked…

And All Blacks and other professional (or aspiring) sports people...

Quite right, Graeme. Though I suspect there are parts of the world that would welcome an experienced plumber (with a relatively minor drug conviction back in the day) ahead of a rugby player. God knows I would...

There are good…

And I don't mean to sound like a classist jerk here, but that line of defence has always bugged me because it seems to disproportionately benefit nice middle-class (and dare I say it, white) law and commerce students. Funny that.

Yes, because they're all assholes who deserve it. Lol, this…

the amusing feminist corrolary to the gay panic defence is that if it was allowed for women who'd been hit on by men, the streets would be littered with the bodies of straight men.

There are good arguments that the defence of provocation should go, but I'm pretty sure it's…

So he asked for a discharge on the grounds that convictions would unduly affect her future — but didn't offer any evidence that that would be the case, and was duly smacked down by the judge. That's just basic stuff.

And I don't mean to sound like a classist jerk…

The Gay panic defence is an "I did it, but I'm not guilty of murder" defence. Like insanity or self defence... you are not denying it was your own actions that lead to death, you are denying that it is murder.

Indeed. And that's how Graham Coutts used the kink…

Ambach's defence lawyer, Peter Kaye, said the jury would hear evidence of the spiking of drinks with drugs.

Drugs that involuntarily cause you to bash and stab someone with a banjo? Don't sound very useful for date rape.

He badly let down Millie Elder when he sought a discharge on her drug charges:

Elder pleaded guilty to possession of methamphetamine or P and…

t I have some very broad issues with how sexuality is used in the legal system. The homosexual panic defence law suggests one way of getting lawyers out of that bind, by simply saying 'you cannot argue this'.

I understand and share you concerns with how sexuality (real or suggested)…

I honest to god thought someone was giving me the wind when I first read about this case, and it was an Onion story or something. A homophobic killing with a banjo? Srsly?

Yeah, I checked the masthead on the O'Herald website to make sure someone wasn't getting their April…

Don't read if you want to remain upbeat and relatively sane today.

"Mr Kaye [the defendant's lawyer] said if the actions were involuntary then the charge was manslaughter – not murder."

I honest to god thought someone was giving me the wind when I first read about this case, and…

Believe it or not, I have had women make sexual advances to me, and I've the sneaking suspicion that the "I'm so repulsed by twat, that despite going back to her bedroom I just had to kill her M'Lud" defence wouldn't fly. What's up with that?

Craig, the amusing feminist…

Don't read if you want to remain upbeat and relatively sane today.

"Mr Kaye [the defendant's lawyer] said if the actions were involuntary then the charge was manslaughter – not murder."

And yes, I am worried about what the defence is going to say in the Sophie Elliot murder case. If you've got nothing, go for the victim?

Sure, and why not? Its like defamation — you can't defame the dead in law, and they're not going to be around to…

There are legal ethics? Man, I've been doing this job all wrong

There are, and like legal ethics,they are a species under continuous threat. So, we need to do our best to protect and propogate them*, starting with the young 'uns (students, that is).

Apologies for the mixed metaphors.

Once the verdict was in , Comesky went out of his way to start flinging the nasty stuff.

As has been pointed out, this doesn't seem to make a lot of legal sense on the face of it. If he intends to lodge an appeal on behalf of his…

For the past few years, I have contributed to a second year uni course on Media Ethics

Hold on, you're saying there are media ethics, too?

I gotta sit down...

There are legal ethics? Man, I've been doing this job all wrong

I believe so, even though they are a threatened species. Indeed, they can be a very satisfying way of understanding the world. For the past few years, I have contributed to a second year uni course on Media…

I'm studying for a legal ethics exam.

There are legal ethics? Man, I've been doing this job all wrong.

OK my main point here, and one that I'm obviously not putting forward well, is that it is almost always wrong to personalise a lawyer's actions or statements.

A lawyer's role…

Your mingling of 2 very different cases is, I hope, a bit of irrelevancy on your part. Going by some of your previous posts – I dunno.

It's a great little 45, turn it over, the B side's even better than the A

Once again Islander, there really is no…

The victim is, very regrettably, very dead.

Your mingling of 2 very different…

Say with regards to this guy

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2522467/Sophie-Elliott-murder-trial-delayed/

Photo plastered over the internet, reputation already half toasted, and the jury hasn't even been selected. I feel that's just wrong.

Mark – yeah, but the circumstances of this case are quite different to the others currently under discussion – her mother was…

We'll I'm a great believer that if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

Until you're a French rugby player who gets the bash after a test match. Remarkable in light of this that the police are canvassing the population for footage of the incident.

carried out in full public scrutiny

Newmarket business cheerleader Cameron Brewer is your man, says 60 Minutes.

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear he declaims while touting the abundant surveillance cameras on those mean streets.

Bet he uses curtains at home, but.

But if someone arrests and tries me for a crime, I want the process to be carried out in full public scrutiny, thanks.

So you would not under any circumstances apply for name supression?

Ok, in the courtroom, trying that line in…

I have no difficulty with people asking the question

Excellent! To me, Comesky is morally culpable for choosing to discuss that line of defence with the media after the trial. No one's forcing him to peddle harmful gender stereotypes outside the "trial environment", although media always seem keen on conveying…

Hey thanks everyone for making my exam revision SOOO much more relevant and enjoyable!

I don't necessarily believe, however, that our role is so special that we should be immune from public criticism. Sometimes a lawyer crosses the line with his/her conduct of a case. I'm not saying this is one such instance, but I have no difficulty with people asking the question.

Hear…

But if Comeskey was at any stage deeply…

I certainly agree the 'only doing his job' line only goes so…

As others have said, a lawyer must act in the best interests of his/her client, to the exclusion of other interests. If this involves trying to find someone else to pin the blame on, so be it.…

A lawyer's role is quite different than the general public perception of it (and that's another issue).

A lawyer's role requires different…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2522467/Sophie-Elliott-murder-trial-delayed/

Photo plastered over the internet, reputation already half toasted, and the jury hasn't even been selected. I feel that's just wrong.

His client is maintaining his innocence and has indicated he'll appeal. Where's the bit that says the lawyer should disregard this and drop it?

Just my turn of phrase; I don't mean he should drop it completely if the client tells him to appeal and continue that line. (Although, can…

Is that an issue with over-transparency or with reporting methods?

I can't really call reporting methods into question, there being no rung too low to stoop to in that field as I see it, and it's private enrterprise. However I like the idea that people can go to court and…

even if it were all broadcast/streamed live but media were banned from reporting or rebroadcasting it'd be a better scenario.

Is that an issue with over-transparency or with reporting methods?

I trust the system as far as I can see it, which requires transparency. You know that saying, justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done? Yeah.

Eternal vigilance, etc.

I know what you're saying, but I have very serious reservations about the current OJification…

Eternal vigilance, etc.

Mark: I doubt Comeskey is disingenuous in this matter but I don't think he's necessarily complicit either. I think he's probably acting as required by law – but the definitions of the actions required to fulfil the principles can vary.

eek!

I hear your eek!, but to me it seems to come down to how much you really trust the democratic system more than anything, if you trust the system, then I see no problem with that at least until trial is over, by which time Mr Xue's accusations could…

The whole 'aspersions' angle sounds like it was cooked up by Xue Nai Yin (if I may) misguidedly under the impression that this kind of witch damning would…

why trials need to be held in the public domain. If this had been behind closed doors, it would have been a non issue.

eek!

Sorry, should have been clearer: the lawyer.

After I posted I realised that the client is probably in no position to be talking to the media. I haven't been reading the papers lately; I'm studying for a legal ethics exam.

Comeskey commented to direct to the media further about the…

Steve I think the point you make about the adversarial system is the discussion we should be having here. Discomfort with its manifestation is valid, but…

Are you talking about the client or the lawyer? The client can say what they like. The lawyer is not allowed to substitute their own views for the client's instructions.

Sorry, should have been clearer: the lawyer. Comeskey commented to direct to the media further about the defense case after…

Actually, what I'd like is if the lawyer sat down with his client and said, 'look, dude, there's no evidence to support this position, and it's my advice to you that an appeal would be unsuccessful'.

We're never going to know what goes on between a lawyer and their client,…

That doesn't explain his continued propagation of that line after the case, when speaking to media. Make the case if you must; then accept the verdict and move on – or appeal.

Are you talking about the client or the lawyer? The client can say what they like. The lawyer…

OK, so we've got to be careful what we say about the man

I've got to be careful. Should this column engender mass fuckwit-calling, I'd hardly be responsible for that.

Yay! Free for all fuckwit calling with Emma's approval!

Where to start...

Seriously, I have some sympathy for the…

Actually, what I'd like is if the lawyer sat down with his client and said, 'look, dude, there's no evidence to support this position, and it's my advice to you that an appeal would be unsuccessful'.

We don't know that he didn't. A client is under no obligation to take…

That doesn't explain his continued propagation of that line after the case, when speaking…

Yes, I'm doing the man the favour of assuming he's malicious, not stupid.

I'm assuming he just loves all the attention.

In that situation Comesky would be in breach of Rule 13.3 of the Lawyers and Conveyancers Act (Lawyers: Conduct and Client Care) Rules 2008:

...a lawyer must obtain and follow a client’s instructions on significant decisions in respect of the conduct of litigation...

The consequences for the…

It's hard to imagine, given the paucity of the defence case, that Nai Yin Xue could appeal successfully.

Quite, but what you are asking is that the defence case be non-existant or at least against the wishes of the defendant. Nai Yin Xue's defence was that his wife was having…

And. yes, I think Chris Comeskey knows exactly what dogs he whistles for at any given moment.

Yes, I'm doing the man the favour of assuming he's malicious, not stupid.

does the 'dirty skank brought it on herself' line have to come out as easily as a well-lubed butt-plug during a fit of mega-flatulence?

I don't think my day would be complete without reading at least one of your brain-exploding similes.

That said, agree totally with your underlying point.

And. yes, I think Chris Comeskey knows exactly what dogs he whistles for at any given moment.

Such as 'vigilantes', P-heads and medal thieves? Who next, Allen Stanford?

OK, so we've got to be careful what we say about the man

I've got to be careful. Should this column engender mass fuckwit-calling, I'd hardly be responsible for that.