The UK police are using an activist movie's lack of a certificate to prevent its being shown in pubs, cafes and cinemas.

I tried entering Craig into the Google engine. That didn't quite do it. However, the word blowjob did

I'd like to be surprised by that – and I think Craig doesn't need 100 volunteers, bless im. It's an interesting business model all right.

the Thread That Ate Tokyo

first Godzilla, now PAS!?
what did we do to deserve this?
we're just trying to get through this stinking hot summer in one piece...

It's like Craig just got 100 random people to put money in a coin slot for Russell's benefit :)

Well, Russell did say his 'looking for porn' hits had dropped off lately. I'd link, but it's somewhere on the Thread That Ate Tokyo.

Man, the search ratings for this thread are going to go through the roof now.

It's like Craig just got 100 random people to put money in a coin slot for Russell's benefit :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

To take an…

Assuming that emotional maturity of the teenagers, is the main rational behind the law.

Rather than tilting the playing field in favour of the boys, you mean?

It's entirely by the by, but when I moved to New Zealand my partner and I had to prove that we were in…

Ahhh Craig. So well informed on those so important facts.

Well, yeah, Steve. I guess I'm just one of those cranks who don't actually think anyone should be facing a prison sentence for fellating a consenting adult in the privacy of his own home, or [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_v._State_of_Georgia|convicted of "aggravated child molestation"…

Male teenagers put on life-wrecking public sex offender rosters for having sex with girls their own age.

Then again, in the great states of Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Virginia and Washington D.C it's an act…

so this meant no access to embassy sites or anything of that nature...

having sex with girls their own age, but under the local age of consent (which can be 18)

When we were setting up Erotica, we looked for things we could just blanket ban. The first thing we tried was kiddy porn – which involved defining what a child was. Someone…

Yes, that may form part of the consideration. Or they may just being lazy and looking to improve their prosecution record for 'child sexual offenders' so they can run for an AG post or something.

The way "sexual offending" is defined, pursued and prosecuted in America can verge on the…

In Canada it's still illegal to own or distribute a crime comic.

but they seem so civilised in their approach to seqential art:

[a bit of an aside from the topic at hand, since it relates to printed works]

Canada Lets in Lost Girls

__In a thoughtful letter from the…

there is a harm difference between text porn, and photographic or filmic porn, both in production and in accidental viewing

by 'in production', I meant the process you have to go through to get your end…

Joe, security stopped you on campus?

Back in February, I was collecting an interloan. A goon I'd never seen before. From his gloating manner he seemed convinced he had a live one. I felt I was entitled to know just what it was about me that lead him to pick…

I quite agree there is a difference, but it is a difference of degree, rather than one of kind.

Seriously? Wow. You don't see any difference in kind between writing a fictional story that involves child abuse, even if the depiction of it is entirely negative, and actually abusing a…

I quite agree there is a difference, but it is a difference of degree, rather than one of kind.

Seriously? Wow. You don't see any difference in kind between writing a fictional story that involves child abuse, even if the depiction of it is entirely negative, and actually abusing a…

But neither the US and New Zealand gives text an absolute exemption, although Emma seems to be arguing that it should.

Ah, the taste of words being pushed into my mouth.

Sorry, I drew an inference, but was trying to avoid imputing opinions to you that you do not actually…

I don't mind if 'we' stop investigating stuff because we consider it's not harmful, OK, not important etc. Maybe the woman you've written about falls into one of those categories.

But 'big in scope'?

So, if we have a big problem and limited resources, would it be acceptable to decide…

It's like playing Whack-a-mole with one hammer and a board the size of Scunthorpe.

I don't mind if 'we' stop investigating stuff because we consider it's not harmful, OK, not important etc. Maybe the woman you've written about falls into one of those categories.

But 'big in scope'?

I'd much…

When I win lotto I'm so blowing those up and replacing them with bicycles. Segway – the solution looking for a problem.

Joe, security stopped you on campus?

Depending on how much time I had to spare I would have a bit of fun, take their photo, write…

I am struck by the irony of a group of New Zealanders (by and large) worrying about a decision is a distant jurisdiction.

Well, Richard, this might come as something of a shock but down here in Middle Earth people do take an interest in what happens in the Grey…

the obscenity laws are not new

Of course they're not. They are a little rusty on account of not being used for something like thirty years. The problem is not what the law actually says, but how it's enforced. In Canada it's still illegal to own or distribute a crime…

3:10 pm Philosophy and Religious Studies seminar. Grant Tavinor (Lincoln University) on The moral narratives of videogames.

Should you decide to attend, make sure you have some form of valid uni ID. I can personally attest that an encounter with certain of the segway-riding goons who may take exception to…

Personally, I think Emma has jumbled up several different issues. On the one hand there is the question of "where to draw the line", and then there are the "mitigating circumstances" that apply to this particular woman.

On the other hand, her point is also that the FBI has jumbled…

From UC Dairy 25 July (this Friday)

3:10 pm Philosophy and Religious Studies seminar. Grant Tavinor (Lincoln University) on The moral narratives of videogames.

http://www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz/diary/

Come again, richard. This women isn't a convicted pedophile.
She was writing fictional stories about childhood sexual abuse, for her own personal reasons. Would it make any difference if the story's were factual?

I didn't say she was a convicted pedophile. And she has not been charged with writing the…

So the Miller test replaces "I know it when I see it" with "We know it when we see it," leading to the inevitable "What…

richard from New England...how strange! You're from a nation that has a legal death penalty, espouses legally-protected torture,

Actually, I am FROM New Zealand but am located in New England. Sorry for the confusion. And I certainly agree that torture is a bad thing, and the death penalty likewise.

and…

Isn't part of the pleasure of shared smut that it be illicit, private, forbidden, naughty? Certainly that's…

I'm also pretty horrified by the idea of an ex-victim getting an obscenity conviction which results in them being put on a sex offender register with actual paedophiles.

Well, actual pedophiles seem to fairly regularly (and this is not something I have made a careful study of) try to mitigate…

You don't feel any particular concern that there are moves afoot to prosecute people for obscenity based on what they write and post on the internet in password-protected groups?

None whatsoever.

No matter what you think of the content – and it would certainly trip my squick-meter – it's the…

The DIA provides a feed to various (all?) ISPs in NZ and can block any site, like [[http://www.dce.net.nz/|this].

They claim this is only for child porn, but the definition of "objectionable" goes…

there is not much more horrific to me than the thought of a work; written by the victim of a sexual criminal to help them deal with reality; being used by someone more like the offender than the victim for sexual gratification

Yeah, I don't know anyone who writes in…

Positively, positively. I think it's quite a remarkable forum you've got there.

Oh good. I'm always a bit worried people will think we're a bunch of sick freaks.

reminds me of one of the more inventive uses of google trends:

What’s Obscene? Google Could Have an Answer

Indeed, I saw…

the defense plans to show that residents of Pensacola are more likely to use Google to search for terms like “orgy” than for “apple pie” or “watermelon.”

I myself often search for a combination of the three.

The thing about the Miller Test is that it shifts the burden of proof onto the defence. Rather than the prosecution having to prove that Fletcher's material was obscene, Fletcher would have had to prove that it had SLAPS value.

reminds me of one of the more inventive uses of…

she wrote the stories partially as therapy:

this is understandable, and I understand that many such works are reasonably well hidden, or controlled. however not all are.

there is not much more horrific to me than the thought of a work; written by the victim of a sexual criminal to…

How is it used?

I would read Emma's writing no matter the topic.

I don't agree with a few of her "interests" but she's a compelling writer and worth reading, even if there's no sex or bestiality or BDSM or whatever.

The issue of governments not having to win cases to…

I didn't condemn it. I just said that I have trouble feeling any particular concern.

You don't feel any particular concern that there are moves afoot to prosecute people for obscenity based on what they write and post on the internet in password-protected groups? No matter what you think of…

Last year, I got about halfway through Ulysses before I was forced to give it up due to boredom.

I let this slide earlier, but... we really need to start a Ulysses appreciation thread and fix this thing.

So what of Hansel & Gretal?
A story of child neglect, abuse, imprisonment and cannibalism.

Don't get me started. What cracks me up especially is the fact that H&G go back to live with their dear old father instead of, you know, murdering him in his sleep. Although perhaps that part was…

I wonder what kind of authoritarianism you're referring too, though. A written text can articulate a political argument and is therefore very dangerous indeed.

I don't see anything particularly 'political' about The Satanic Verses or The Bible, but I sure wouldn't be walking down the street in Tehran with either…

Last year, I got about halfway through Ulysses before I was forced to give it up due to boredom. Did the book actually make me mental?

The corrupting power of Ulysses has always been a bit of a mystery to me too. Surely a couple of chapters devoted to masturbation…

A story of child neglect, abuse, imprisonment and cannibalism.

There are no definitive studies as to what level literature can corrupt society but there are instances where it has affected individuals.

And, dare I say it, hundreds of thousands — if not millions-- of people who've seen productions of Romeo and Juliet, Othello and Machbeth without turning into brutal…

the University of Toronto until 1955 required students to warrant that they were free of "mental problems" before reading Joyce's book

Last year, I got about halfway through Ulysses before I was forced to give it up due to boredom. Did the book actually make me mental?

This is truly quite remarkable.

There's a statement I have no idea how to take.

Positively, positively. I think it's quite a remarkable forum you've got there.

In a way, yes I am — authoritarian societies have always been insensely aware that logos is ever but as powerful as icon .

Thou shalt not make graven images.
Seriously, don't let me catch you graving images, okay?

I wonder what kind of authoritarianism you're referring too, though. A…

This is truly quite remarkable.

There's a statement I have no idea how to take.

We've run a workshop on helping writers deal with the emotional impacts of writing this kind of thing.

This is truly quite remarkable.

It most certainly is, but we're not seriously surprised that pictures are more readily censored than words, are we?

In a way, yes I am — authoritarian societies have always been insensely aware that logos is ever but as powerful as icon .

You seem to be making a "slippery slope" argument,

I'm aware of that. But it's already clear that they're not just after the child pornography, because of the FBI memo. They're after stories written about doing things that are perfectly legal.They're already going after categories of material that stuff I've…

Indeed, that's pretty much the crux of it: that photographic porn requires an actual real incident to photograph or film. But writing?

I think there is a reason that they are gunning for writing. How long before there is a photographic child porn case where the defence is "It's all…

The other thing writing allows you to do is get inside the heads of the participants. It makes it possible to make issues of consent much more clear-cut

Not following you there. You can write a story in which a woman or child is sexually assaulted and then starts to…

And this morning I read this Death of Free Internet is Imminent- Canada Will Be Test Case which I'm hoping is merely conjecture at this point.

I'm leaning towards "crazy conspiratorial bullshit" ...

For some reason, I am not feeling the outrage on this one. It is one thing to write the story as "therapy", it is a different matter again to post it on the internet.

And how is that different from the dozens of fairly graphic accounts of surviving sexual abuse…

But drawing sex involving children is also different than writing about it. If you believe that pornography corrupts, you'll aim to ban all forms of representation, but the written form generally comes last in the pecking order.

The other thing writing allows you to do is get inside the heads…

The charges related to material on the site which depicted the assault, rape and murder of children.

For some reason, I am not feeling the outrage on this one. It is one thing to write the story as "therapy", it is a different matter again to post it on the…

Funny old world, isn't it?

It most certainly is, but we're not seriously surprised that pictures are more readily censored than words, are we? There is a reason why we refer to a particularly vivid description as being "graphic", and I think that most people would recognise this hierarchy of…

This new moralism has no hope of getting pron off the internet: I was right about that. What I hadn't realised was how much damage could be done trying.

Tell me about it ! Where is this all leading ... first they came for the porn . . .
After…

Russell. Can we please have BY lines on System? I had to make the giant leap over to PA to find that Emma wrote this piece.

Good point.

This issue is of particular concern to fandom – last year LiveJournal, in response to complaints, deleted a whole lot of journals under the guise of purging child porn

Indeed. This has included banning Harry Potter slash-fic if it's not clear which book the writing is non-canon for, and therefore…

I always thought that at least part or the illegality of "obscene" images was due to the potential for exploitation of real people in the making of. Unless the author has some very intense research methods this just isn't an issue with text.

Indeed, that's pretty much the crux of…

My parents recall seeing a film that had to be screened to male and female audiences separately.

It was the film of James Joyce's Ulysses. That censor's decision achieved world fame, or infamy.

It was banned outright in Ireland, I think, and in Canada, the University of Toronto until 1955…

My parents recall seeing a film that…

Explicit and prolonged rape scenes or depictions of sadistic torture are OK in films that are subtitled and screen at the Film Festival, not so much at the multiplex...

I agree with Craig.

It amused me no end that Bully was only allowed to be screened at Festivals and to…

Heh, there used to be an RFS classification for movies – Restricted to Film Societies.

They took the 'only for qualified academics' restriction off de Sade's Justine here almost simultaneously with me gaining the requisite qualifications. Now it's available free on the net in its entirety.

Let. Down.

Explicit and prolonged rape scenes or depictions of sadistic torture are OK in films that are subtitled and screen at the Film Festival, not so much at the multiplex...

Heh, there used to be an RFS classification for movies – Restricted to Film Societies.

That's where you go to see…

Text has always been treated differently

And not only text. I don't really want to relitigate the whole debate over Robert Mapplethorpe, but I don't think you've got to be some prude to ask yourself why a photo of one man pissing in another's mouth is 'art' on the walls…