Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: TPPA: It's Extreme

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:02:34 +1300

… for some optimism and alternatives
The Fabians have organised this event in Chchch:

Wellbeing Economics – an alternative approach to national policy
I would like to remind/invite you to hear Professor Paul Dalziel discuss this topic at 7:30pm on Friday 20 November at the WEA Rooms, 59 Gloucester…

Rosemary McDonald

Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:06:10 +1300

and that’s exactly why the resistance from many US Congresspeople/Senators will continue to be loud over the next couple of months.

I am waiting for the backlash from the US over this....http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201779142/us-feathers-ruffled-over-china-lease-of-port-of-darwin

I bet this went down like a cup of cold sick...

chris

Wed, 18 Nov 2015 18:33:00 +1300

It puts our lack of investment in value adding industries into a new perspective.

And the winner is Vietnam:

In a decade, the country’s gross domestic product will be boosted 11 percent, or $36 billion, as a result of the world’s largest trade pact. Exports may soar 28 percent in…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:34:09 +1300

and that's exactly why the resistance from many US Congresspeople/Senators will continue to be loud over the next couple of months. Canada's new government may also be our salvation, I guess

chris

Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:05:15 +1300

An article from The Intercept on how the TPP may benefit China:

Right now, the U.S. reserves the right to slap large tariffs on China, as it has done on steel (up to 236 percent), solar panels (up to 78 percent) and tires (up to 88 percent). But under TPP,…

Alfie

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 17:26:44 +1300

That’s interesting to know for future reference, that just the first bits of the url/address finds the rest, hmmm

Yep… with Stuff only, just tack the story number onto the end of the .co.nz/ and you can give it any name you like. It results in some very interesting links.…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 08:07:30 +1300

Groser (gets us) Jack…
Cutting and pasting my link does work…
That’s interesting to know for future reference, that just the first bits of the url/address finds the rest, hmmm

‘Grocer Tim’ won’t let us down, he will get off his back and feed the town…
Yeah, Nah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rExhxkX-Ic

Alfie

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 07:42:33 +1300

Cutting and pasting my link does work, and it looks so much more appropriate in the browser address bar. ;-)

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 07:07:36 +1300

try
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72688061/no-increased-medicine-costs-under-tppa
(by the number still the same story)

Alfie

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 06:39:44 +1300

That link’s broken Chris.

www.stuff.co.nz/72688061/grosser-fucks-new-zealand

There. I fixed it.

You'll have to cut and paste that one because the PAS system screws it up. Sort of like the Nats have just done to the country.

Chris Waugh

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 05:52:28 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72688061/fonterra-let-down-by-remaining-tariffs-in-transpacific-partnership-tppa.

Why anybody thought you could let some of the world's biggest protectionists in and still call it a free trade agreement I do not understand.

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:12:44 +1300

Bah!

Steve Barnes

Mon, 05 Oct 2015 15:27:18 +1300

See here for a live stream of the planned press conference later today from Atlanta:
https://youtu.be/u3KBpGE1VLs

Why does it not surprise me that the video is private.
Humbug...

chris

Fri, 18 Sep 2015 23:42:30 +1200

Bringing this over from another thread:

He said the secrecy around negotiations was not something to be worried about, given that was how all Free Trade Agreements came about

Key used an example of selling a house worth $600,000 for $500,000 and telling the media.

“Are you really telling me…

Paul Campbell

Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:58:25 +1300

The EFF comments on the latest TPPA leak

Rick Shera

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:43:56 +1300

The reason why NZ producers of bubbles do not describe it as champagne has nothing to do with GIs in a Trade Mark Act sense. It is because the Champagne area producers succeeded in a passing off/Fair Trading Act case against Wineworths back in the early 90s. That is why…

JoJo

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:19:17 +1300

For an accessible (I think) introduction to the TPPA, there's also No Ordinary Deal: Unmasking the Trans-Pacific Partnership Free Trade Agreement, by Jane Kelsey (ed).

Rich Lock

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:19:51 +1300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBwA362pq9o

Matthew Poole

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:25:27 +1300

James Joyce died in 1941, so that means his works would theoretically come under public domain this year. At least according to EU copyright law.

The counting starts at 1 January of the year following the creator's death, so it's next year not this.
In the US, courtesy of the…

Islander

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:14:05 +1300

The Maori word for ‘bubbly’ is ‘mirumiru’ (that’s Kati Porou/Kai Tahu – it’s also a bird name)…

“sham-pagne” was one of the losers in that particular contest-

I notice lot of younger people asking for "I'll have some bubbles/bubbly please" instead of any variation of 'champane'-

I rather suspect the…

Sacha

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:39:48 +1300

I like "bubbly"

FletcherB

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:31:23 +1300

Or sham-pagne… or is that just for the really nasty ones that are not “méthode traditionnelle”? :)

BenWilson

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:08:56 +1300

How about Champers...lots of people already call it that. For a more edgy modern twist Sh@mpz.

Sacha

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 18:13:53 +1300

the hammer

heh

3410

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:44:03 +1300

Not quite my area of expertise, anyway.

Nor mine. Thanks for addressing that. I see what you mean.

Kumara Republic

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:31:24 +1300

After announcing their work, Venter explained, his team received a cease and desist letter from Joyce’s estate, saying that he’d used the Irish writer’s work without permission. ”We thought it fell under fair use,” said Venter.

James Joyce died in 1941, so that means his works would theoretically come under…

Islander

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:22:58 +1300

I once won a very good bottle of champagne (yep, French) for suggesting that English-language writers simply drop the 'g' and call our stuff (some of which is excellent) 'champane.' We've already done this deliberate mis-spelling with port and sherry (for examples...)

Rich Lock

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:09:11 +1300

The key quote in that wiki article is this:

Regardless of the legal requirements for labeling, extensive education efforts by the Champagne region and the use of alternative names by non-Champagne quality sparkling wine producers, some consumers and wine sellers continue to regard champagne as a generic term for white…

Rich Lock

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:59:20 +1300

Some lawyers really do have too much time on their hands.

Hey, don't blame the hammer for the hand that wields it.

recordari

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:50:42 +1300

There’s quite a bit of discussion on how this could affect access to medicines. There was some suggestion (on Radio – verbal reference) that allowing Pharmac to lose it’s control over the import of medicines, or the use of generics, could cost us 100s of millions per year.

There’s a…

Sacha

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:45:48 +1300

As an aside, some unexpected copyright enforcement:

In May 2010, geneticist J. Craig Venter and his team made news by creating the first “synthetic life form,” replacing the genetic code in a bacterium with DNA they’d composed on a computer.

...

In order to distinguish their synthetic DNA from that…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:15:47 +1300

Learn more about the TPPA:

NEW ZEALAND IS NOT FOR SALE

Murray Horton, spokesperson of the Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa (CAFCA), is touring the country and will speak on:
• The Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement and the dangers it poses to our economy and democracy.
• Privatisation of our…

3410

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:50:35 +1300

A trader is not stopped from selling Parma-style ham or sparkling champagne-style wine by this, but they do have to make it clear that it doesn't come from a particular area.

.......................................................................

Use of the word "champagne"

Even the term "méthode champenoise" or "champagne method" was forbidden consequent to an…

Rich Lock

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:15:59 +1300

@Rick Lock/Chris Bell GIs aren't actually listed

No, some informed googling post-comment implied as much.

The WIPO page on geographic indicators is here. More Euro-specific info here.

What is a "generic" geographical indication?

If a geographical term is used as the common designation of a kind of product, rather than…

Jacqui Dunn

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 00:00:57 +1300

O-arrrrr!!!???

Well, I guess in its original form, it doesn't have any of those funny little squiggles we westerners can read..... (lameness ensues, further than earlier and probably digs even deeper spelling and grammar hole.) :)

Matthew Poole

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:46:46 +1300

And of course, it’s not bismarti, it’s bAsmarti

Doesn't have an 'r', either ;)

Matthew Poole

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:44:48 +1300

Not a really easy way, no. Wikipedia does a far job, and much of what I would say is just reproducing what’s in that article since I don’t know enough of the details to give you a really accurate answer.

That said, they’re purely issues of copyright. Google allegedly breached…

Jacqui Dunn

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:45:47 +1300

Thank you, Matthew.

And of course, it's not bismarti, it's bAsmarti. (I knew that!) Must have been having Germanic (germane?) thoughts. Bismarck.

Islander

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:18:56 +1300

Matthew Poole – is there any brief way of describing where e-bookrights&the Google Settlement sit within this? (Will donate modest amount to charity of your choice for amounts to picking your brains-)

Matthew Poole

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:05:31 +1300

Maybe I’m reading this all wrong, but does this mean that some US company will be able to copyright something another company does, and then sue that company for using the name and/or producing their product? As in the case of the company that trademarked the name “bismati” and then…

Jacqui Dunn

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:54:23 +1300

Maybe I'm reading this all wrong, but does this mean that some US company will be able to copyright something another company does, and then sue that company for using the name and/or producing their product? As in the case of the company that trademarked the name "bismati" and then…

BenWilson

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 12:21:34 +1300

I believe "bloody Yanks" are defensive.

It's an especially confusing and ultimately annoying insult to people from the southern states.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:35:18 +1300

the glittering prizes... and other fuzzy logic
mind you, “Zespri"TM was far worse (and totally unsuccessful.)
and how about all those Cervena®©TM Stalkers, too?

neither here nor there, there deer...
From the wide open pastures of New Zealand comes a venison so good they gave it another name. Cervena® Natural…

tussock

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 02:11:23 +1300

So, yeh, now you'll get fined a hundred thousand dollars for reading the wrong pdf on your iphone, so that various foreign companies can better extract monopoly rents on their "incompatible" electronic products, and we can start getting those rentals six months after everyone else in the world again.

Bonus…

Islander

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:45:03 +1300

Back to geographically generic labels which subject – aside from bloody @C writing matters- is what fascinates me most...

Advertising boffins changed 'chinese gooseberries' (the name they were known as from before my birth) into 'kiwifruit' – the push went on for that name after (I understand) it became completely…

Sacha

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:23:36 +1300

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. Paul probably got the tone I was aiming for but not clear to everyone else.

Danielle

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:23:11 +1300

I believe "bloody Yanks" are defensive. Americans are delightfully logical and levelheaded. Particularly if they're also New Zealanders. #biteme

Islander

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:12:10 +1300

I still prefer ‘Chinese gooseberries’ because
a)it acknowledges country of origin
b)hairiness and, importantly
c)greeness.
“kiwifruit” is a branding stupidity- have HATED the name ever since it was invented by whatsit/whosit ad firm-

mind you, "Zespri"TM was far worse (and totally unsuccessful.)

Sacha

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:08:46 +1300

And Americans are never defensive

Danielle

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:02:39 +1300

New Zealanders, of course, never use diminutive nicknames for anything.

Matthew Poole

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:34:21 +1300

Agree – which is why those who have concerns need to find examples that resonate with the general public. Parallel import limits clearly fall into that category, as does 3 strikes internet termination.

I'm brainstorming an idea or 2 right now as I type this.

One I thought of was:…

nzlemming

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 00:17:42 +1300

Greens – generally and specifically against it

Labour has been pushing the TPPA since it began – they just want it to be more open

ACT seem generally in favour of completely dropping our trousers for the Yanks (jump to Tariffs), although the only mention of the TPPA is in…

Matt Crawford

Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:28:25 +1300

Pardon my ignorance, but does anyone know the position on TPP that our domestic polictical parties have adopted?

Kumara Republic

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:55:10 +1300

I'm brainstorming an idea or 2 right now as I type this.

Sacha

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:36:13 +1300

To be fair, that's cos the bloody yanks called them "kiwi" rather than "kiwifruit"

Paul Campbell

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:30:32 +1300

When the revolution comes first against the wall is the marketing bozo who named them "kiwifruit" and stole our national identity – living in the US I got fed up with amused Americans wondering why I thought I was a small brown furry fruit, I had to stop referring to…

Whoops

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:01:00 +1300

Would it be stretching geographic protection too far to prevent South American-grown fruit from using the name "Kiwifruit"? :-)

It would be contentious to interpret the name as "Fruit originating from New Zealand, and thus known as 'Kiwi'" rather than "Fruit which looks like a fat flightless bird", but the…

George Darroch

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:33:34 +1300

Ah, perhaps I'm not that cynical.

George Darroch

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:15:48 +1300

I can't be bothered getting angry about this. The New Zealand Labour Party refused to make international agreements a matter for parliament rather than the executive (as they are, ironically, in the United States). There's a chance to soften the worst parts of this, but the die is cast. Cabinet…

Rick Shera

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:58:42 +1300

Rick Shera

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:55:58 +1300

@ScottY – yes, there are major issues with patent changes as well but I wanted to focus on the copyright and TM ones. Pharmac is clearly a target although I heard Susy Frankel of VUW suggest that (as much as it might like to) US is probably not aiming to…

Chris Bell

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:02:19 +1300

Hi Rich, I don’t know whether they’re on the list. I do know that people in those regions would prefer it if no one else could market products using those names.

I hadn’t finished reading the post [see, I hadn't even checked who wrote it!] but wanted to comment on…

Sacha

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:56:10 +1300

The problem is most Kiwis have no idea what any of this means....and their eyes glaze over when you try to explain it even if they ask.

True – the various consequences need to be turned into realistic examples that are easy to convey

James Butler

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:55:32 +1300

Would it be stretching geographic protection too far to prevent South American-grown fruit from using the name "Kiwifruit"? :-)

It would be contentious to interpret the name as "Fruit originating from New Zealand, and thus known as 'Kiwi'" rather than "Fruit which looks like a fat flightless bird", but the…

Chris Bell

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:49:04 +1300

I would add, however, that I DON'T think copyright is the right mechanism for protecting geographic indicators.

Rich Lock

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:48:12 +1300

The patent system is generally OK, although the proposed changes are, as Scott says, concerning.

I agree with you that copyright is a shambles, and I'm also reasonably happy with the geographic protection of product descriptors, for the reasons you've outlined (although cheddar, parmesan and stilton are pretty darn generic.…

Chris Bell

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:41:09 +1300

OK, copyright and patents are a shambles and the way US corporations are abusing the intended purpose of copyright is predictably insane.

But I do support geographic protection of product descriptors like champagne, stilton, parmesan, cheddar and so on. If you make a cheese, why try to pass it off…

Steve Withers

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:38:42 +1300

The problem is most Kiwis have no idea what any of this means....and their eyes glaze over when you try to explain it even if they ask.

ScottY

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:53:14 +1300

Finally a thread you can get your teeth into ScottY!

Everyone else is too scared :)

Me too, actually.

Sacha

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 12:15:38 +1300

Everyone else is too scared :)

BenWilson

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:37:25 +1300

Finally a thread you can get your teeth into ScottY!

ScottY

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:16:41 +1300

Yes, it's a copyright thread

Not if we talk about patent law.

Some of the patent law provisions are potentially concerning (or good, depending on your viewpoint), because they will extend the scope of what is patentable to include things that currently are not patentable in NZ – e.g. methods…

Public Address

Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:16:41 +1300

Discussion from blog post.