This country is entering a new era where the govt will be ruling
our lives, a bit like the Soviet Union during its communist
era. Watch out the next bill these socialists will want to put
through is the hate speech bill.

Hate speech? Sheesh! If you did some research…

We don't exempt any other section of the population from assault law

'Cept Passengers on aircraft and ships. Masters of ships and pilots of aircraft can use reasonable force to maintain discipline...

Until researchers, clinicians, and parents can definitively demonstrate the presence of positive effects of corporal punishment, including effectiveness in halting future misbehaviour, not just the absence of negative effects, we as psychologists can not responsibly recommend its…

some people have their brains skewed too far to in one direction (or another).

As always, I'll defer to the voice of first-hand experience.
Have a lovely day.

If Millichamps study is right; the people were right, and you people are..well............ missing something

Missing what, exactly? Millichamp's implying that anyone who questions the value of her research is 'dishonest' does her no credit. Whatever the value of her contribution, this 'debate' is not owned by scientists, any more…

Some of you will never get it because you are part of the problem, not the solution. I can see a study like this being as welcome as a pork chop in a synagogue. Bringing it up wouldn't be a good…

smack my bishop?

Genius.

smack my bishop?

Nice one Heather Gaye.

pfnarr pfnarr

m – yeah not very flattering eh? he probably was right ipso facto that "he would have been a poor father, and, implausibly, that the children would have a better life at the foundling home".

having said that, and ironically for sure, he had some…

From 1743 to 1744, he was secretary to the French ambassador in Venice, whose republican government Rousseau would refer to often in his later political work. After this, he returned to Paris, where he befriended and lived with Thérèse Levasseur, a semi-literate seamstress who,…

"Snap my picture..."

smack my bishop?

some other amusing material in there too.

i used to groove along to that song until i was told the lyrics weren't actually "Snap my picture..."

Well, quit needling me! Sew and Sew.

i think the ethics of that smocking needs a lot more debate though.

Aha! This is the debate I've been waiting to watch...
(waits for merc)
(gets popcorn)
(oo, I feel like I'm at the THEATRE)

Stuff Interview

I do agree though, he did come…

The Crimes Act has this to say:

Justified, in relation to any person, means not guilty of an offence and not liable to any civil proceeding:

Earlier in this thread, David Haywood quoted Associate Professor Dawkins of the Otago University…

yeah right graeme. you don't have to keep pretending it was ever legal anymore.

Anke, that was an excellent post…

Whatever one think of the balance of the…

And I'm with Weston too – Simon Barnett did an incredible job of making the "pro-smacking" case.

lets stop this right now. when it comes to kids there is NO "pro-smacking" case.

Two differently worded questions, leading to very large majorities, respectively, for and against the amendment.

I'm against the controversial anti-smacking bill, but I support the anti-kid-hitting bill.

I was subjected to the traditional old kiwi "wooden spoon school of discipline" as a child…

I'm getting fed up with self-appointed spokespeople being given unearned equal status by the media. I suppose they think they can by-pass the people because they're elected by God.

Brian Tamaki got zero-point-zilch per cent of the vote. Larry Baldock had one term thanks to Peter…

Just saw Lordgod Tamaki on 'Campbell Live'

Another good reason to watch Mark Sainsbury on CloseUp instead. If you had, you may have seen Simon Barnett make a far more persuasive case.

true. it's the amendment that lets National de-couple itself from the fundy-right without losing too much face, and which allows National to u-turn despite any changes while making them look like their pretend concerns…

The Parliamentary debate is on now. Judith Collins spoke in favour of the bill. Heather Roy spoke against. And Sue Bradford and Judith Collins will now both be supporting the same law.

When two people who fundamentally disagree…

If anybody needed proof that internet polls are a joke, check out the results on the Stuff and Herald websites.

Two differently worded questions, leading to very large majorities, respectively, for and against the amendment.

Not at all. You could well get the same result with proper scientific polls asking…

Two differently worded questions, leading to very large majorities, respectively, for and against the amendment.

hehe that is funny

Herlad poll

Stuff poll

Judging by the General Debate, the Nat line is that it's all down to the heroic diplomacy of Mr Key

That's interesting, he told Kathryn Ryan, on 9 to noon, that it was due to a chat with Cullen that they had at a conference in Australia.
He didn't actually…

that'd be Pacific Theatre, 142 Chruch St, Onehunga.

Two differently worded questions, leading to very large majorities, respectively, for and against the amendment.

"Kiwis to ban smacking" – Brisbane Times, AAP report.

"The controversial new law will make it an offense for parents to use force to discipline their children." – Int'l Herald Tribune, AP report.

my thoughts precisely

but i don't understand which system mora proves effective.

Oh yes you dooooo, with Jim there at primetime drive, who isn't? And Gary, well you know I love the guy but, he's never been very funny or serious as a poet but we kinda love him anyway, besides who else…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501154&objectid=10437343

and if thats a valid representation of the heralds readership, it contains a lot of deranged child beaters.

suggest PA start a fund to facilitate their migration to…

if you mean JK trying to be JFK, i really really hope he tries to push that one. even Goebbels acknowledged there are serious limits to what message management can achieve.

Family First appear to be somewhat mollified, if suspicious. Leading me to doubt their grasp of what the bill said in the first place.

hmm, a victory for the status quo on the amendment, yes. but then again Brian seems to think he's a bishop so go figure.

i'm waiting for Jim Mora and Gary McCormack's u-turns

But it is quite fun watching the opponents trying to decide between triumph and outrage.

Larry Baldock
Phillip Field
Brian Tamaki

Still waiting to hear from Christine Rankin, Simon Barnett, Bob McCroskey etc.

Judith Collins?

as Lyndon said upthread, Key has traded in his Labour-beating stick for a chance to look statesman-like. well now we will see just…

When you start a clause with "to remove doubt" you don't expect it to do much.

I've seen "to avoid doubt" used in other recent amendments to the Crimes Act. Here is an example:

s307 (4) Threats of harm to people or property

__To avoid doubt, the fact that a…

When you start a clause with "to remove doubt" you don't expect it to do much. Of course, I think the…

i agree rob, rich has aquitted herself well on this one while the cavers look like spineless turds.

Thank you Tony , yes these people are blind to the truth that this government is the most family unfriendly in our short history .

Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.

....a government that has twice voted at United Nation’s level not to support the equal status of mothers and fathers

And just what laws or resolutions were they voting on?

I disagree. To the wider (non-political junkie) public, the impression will be of the bill passing, Sue Bradford celebrating, and National supporting her. Labour and the Greens haven't lost more than they already had – but National may have done.

There will be anger on the conservative/religious right. Their…

Actually I think this is very good news! The fact that National, Labour, The Greens and United Future have been able to work out this compromise underlines the fact that (nearly) all of our politicians are well-intentioned on the subject of protecting children. Well…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4045584a6160.html

I see Jim Mora was back on form yesterday with Gary McCormack on the panel. What a veritable storm of ignorance they managed to whip up although i gather they received a bit of flak from listeners for it.
Among the treasures were "but will i…

The behaviour of Clark , Bradford , Maori Party , Media etc etc.. is beyond belief . They think they can fix child abuse overnight…

One question please about the nanny state utopian government you seem to support.

All this concern about the plight of vulnerable children by a government that has twice voted at United Nation’s…

Must be hard to be her right about now I am guessing

There are some ugly attitudes out there.

Yeah, the undercurrents here can be very nasty. The involvement of Lordgod Tamaki is a bad sign IMO. I just don't get the acceptance of a casual swat at the child as it spills its' drink or something. It makes no sense.

Mind…

well maybe Kirsten, but it's really important sane people like yourself speak up on this in order that we avoid the Spiral of Silence the bill's opponents are so desperate to promote.

tell that to the Judge. and enough of that 'needles don't make smocking, people make smocking' carry-on.

Ban needles?

I need those needles, dammit. They're for perfectly legitimate cross-stitch. And mending, yeah. You can take my needle from my cold dead hand.

too late, those filthy politically correct do-gooders have set up needle exhanges to entrench the scourge of smocking. perhaps we could get Bishop Brian to wear some in his next parade, he seems to like dressing up.

Interestingly, Assoc-Prof Kevin Dawkins (University of Otago School of Law) completely dismisses this claim.

Yep – it's a completely ludicrous claim.

I don't think bill supporters have too much they can complain about when discussing media protrayal of the bill with the ludicrous arguments many (not just on the fringes)…

that sounds like the professor is living up to his name, is he quoting from the Maxim Institute Journal of Family Law?

No, Prof Dawkins article (not available online, unfortunately) is very interesting and thoughtful, and well worth reading. It made me realize how tricksy and devious…

i have found that most kiwis actually do find the s59 repeal perfectly sensible and un-remarkable when they understand what it's actually about. the current state of hysteria…

A fascinating post — brutally honest, very funny in parts, and deeply depressing at the same time.

I actually think this is quite a brave piece. I've written about this topic myself on Public Address, and received some pretty nasty emails in response (not quite death threats, but certainly…

In 1957, Sweden was the first country to make hitting children illegal.

This, for example, is one place where you diverge from the arguments of those supporting the (albeit highly…