Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: The real problem with the ‘Kiwimeter’ https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358065#post358065 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358065#post358065 Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:41:01 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358063#post358063 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358063#post358063 How can we make that clearer?

Maybe like this?

]]> Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:02:55 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358027#post358027 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358027#post358027 Thu, 17 Mar 2016 20:53:52 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358026#post358026 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358026#post358026 Thu, 17 Mar 2016 20:46:17 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358023#post358023 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358023#post358023 Yeah, sorry Moz, that's bullshit.

You don't sound sorry.

I agree that it's bullshit, but apparently for the opposite reason. I don't consider it essential to know exactly where Raglan is and how it relates to other suburbs of or around Auckland, and I think it's bullshit to demand that…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:18:47 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358013#post358013 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358013#post358013 so you can never really know how many people took part if it goes evenly either way (if my feeble brain has grasped the process correctly…)

Yup, and if, say, there were 10,000 likes and 10,100 dislikes, it comes to 100 dislikes which sounds really bad, when in fact it's…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:50:34 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358012#post358012 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358012#post358012 I would like to know who these ‘prominent New Zealand academics’ are, so I can avoid them in the tearoom.

Stay away from the prominent tea rooms and you should be OK

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:46:19 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358011#post358011 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358011#post358011 I wonder if “Balclutha” is the generic for “south of Cuba St” or are they actually aware that it’s quite different from Invercargill, let alone Wanaka or Wakefield.

I feel barely competent to make generalizations about Papatoetoe, much less a place I'm dimly aware exists somewhere around the middle of…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:43:18 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358010#post358010 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358010#post358010 Its the best part of a 2 hour drive from central Aucks and you have to go through Hamilton to get there unless you like unsealed back roads.

That's like claiming that Hamilton isn't part of Auckland. :-)

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:38:18 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358009#post358009 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358009#post358009 Petone is not part of Wellington. It's a suburb in the Hutt Valley, which is a conglomeration near to, but separated from Wellington.

It's become standard to describe (in the media) everywhere near a city as part of that city, possibly as an attempt to build support for council amalgamations,…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:31:50 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358006#post358006 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358006#post358006 its more like claiming that Foxton Beach is not part of Wellington.

Yeah, sorry Moz, that's bullshit. More plausible to say Raglan is a dormitory suburb of Hamilton, but even that's stretching it a lot.

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:13:00 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358003#post358003 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358003#post358003 Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:42:06 +1300 Jeremy Andrew https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358002#post358002 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358002#post358002 Raglan… that’s kinda like claiming Petone is not part of Wellington. I mean technically it’s not, but
Well, its more like claiming that Foxton Beach is not part of Wellington. Cos it ain't. Its the best part of a 2 hour drive from central Aucks and you have to go…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:19:39 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358000#post358000 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=358000#post358000 Not really. Raglan is a trendy town these days, with a significant arts community.

And apparently the highest per-capita level of benzodiazepine prescriptions in the country.

would like to know who these ‘prominent New Zealand academics’ are, so I can avoid them in the tearoom.

Probably a biochemist and a…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:27:57 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357999#post357999 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357999#post357999 Only 5 out of 8 of those are in Auckland. Raglan is another town altogether, and Balclutha and Cuba St are not in Auckland.

Ooops, so my assumption that there must be Auckland versions of the latter two was worng. Raglan... that's kinda like claiming Petone is not part of…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:51:29 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357992#post357992 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357992#post357992 a simple esteem engine....
looking for a “like” button
agreed, yet isn't that another example of a self selecting survey...
;- )

It always intrigued me that Stuff Comments has 'thumbs up' and 'thumbs down' options while the NZ Herald only has 'thumbs up' – and within Stuff's two options…

]]> Thu, 17 Mar 2016 07:09:33 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357984#post357984 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357984#post357984 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:46:25 +1300 Geoff Lealand https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357975#post357975 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357975#post357975 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:03:37 +1300 Geoff Lealand https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357974#post357974 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357974#post357974 Wed, 16 Mar 2016 19:01:52 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357950#post357950 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357950#post357950 Only 5 out of 8 of those are in Auckland. Raglan is another town altogether, and Balclutha and Cuba St are not in Auckland.

FWIW I don't know what those stereotypes are either. Well Raglan is probably rural coastal types...but the others are a mystery. Not that I care much,…

]]> Wed, 16 Mar 2016 16:36:34 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357914#post357914 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357914#post357914 8 Tribes

Did they have to say at the very start "everyone lives in Auckland"? Those suburb names meant almost nothing to me. I know the words, barely any more and definitely not the stereotypes. I've visited Auckland, but when I had to choose a major city to live in,…

]]> Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:22:21 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357911#post357911 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357911#post357911 Download; convert to jpg; attach to comment … et voila

I must admit that's always bothered me – it's essentially a copyright breach when direct linking would not be

]]> Wed, 16 Mar 2016 07:47:38 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357906#post357906 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357906#post357906 They're really boasting now about 130,000 respondents? Congratulations, that's 130,000 respondents worth of worthless data that doesn't mean anything!

Wow. At 10 minutes per survey, which is the time it takes as advised by TVNZ, that's nearly 903 continuous non-sleeping days of people filling out a dumb survey.

They could…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 23:09:33 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357902#post357902 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357902#post357902 I think they used the Waitangi Day promo effort to get their initial sample. So when you see the "You are a Globalist, 7% are like you" that's based on that early bunch of respondents. Heaven knows how they weighted it to derive the proportions!

They emailed all the people…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 21:18:49 +1300 Tze Ming Mok https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357901#post357901 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357901#post357901 The survey I did (promoted on Waitangi Day!) was run by http://www.voxpoplabs.com/ who seem to specialise in these exercises. It was about 15 minutes to do, very long, and the questions were much as the present Kiwimeter has, including the "special treament" questions.

I complained in the feedback form at…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 20:54:06 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357900#post357900 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357900#post357900 echoes, unintentionally or not, of old American citizenship tests

That may be history in the US but it's very much alive today in Australia. The questions are not as bad as you might fear, they have been cleaned up a lot since the Howard-era version which was insane ("name the…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 20:46:15 +1300 Tze Ming Mok https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357899#post357899 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357899#post357899 This is a very poorly thought-out question. It may well bring out the 'shitty attitudes' – but how would you have any idea what people meant when they agreed or disagreed?

I agree the 'scale' is wrong (and while it's not completely 'useless' as a way to gather opinions it…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 20:44:26 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357889#post357889 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357889#post357889 It seemed to have echoes, unintentionally or not, of old American citizenship tests that owed more to pop culture values than actual civics. Namely, those tests that asked questions about famous baseball players and other stuff.

An even more infamous variant in the Jim Crow-era US South cranked it up…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:01:02 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357886#post357886 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357886#post357886 I think xkcd has the right answer to that claim:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png
I would embed the image itself here but I don’t see how.

Download; convert to jpg; attach to comment … et voila

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:17:00 +1300 Morgan Nichol https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357882#post357882 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357882#post357882 Where I did have trouble was in the later stages of trying to choose between say rugby and the All Blacks as a NZ symbol.

I found that to be a very interesting challenge.

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:45:48 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357880#post357880 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357880#post357880 Without even starting to think about whether 'having a tiny proportion of what was unjustly seized from your iwi returned a century or so later' is 'special treatment'?

We have much better questions in Oz, because we have honest-to-bob Libertarians in parliament. Oddly, he is very strongly against property rights…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:25:35 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357879#post357879 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357879#post357879 The wording was “Māori should not receive any special treatment.” I can’t simply disagree with that statement because I take issue with the way it’s phrased.

Yeah. It's a reasonable assumption Māori are discriminated against – we have all manner of evidence for this. Discrimination is 'special treatment'.
This is…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:59:20 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357878#post357878 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357878#post357878 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:53:03 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357877#post357877 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357877#post357877 This is beautiful :)
Imagine your HR department running a survey at your workplace, where one question was "Susan should not receive special treatment." I don't think you would feel very good about that, even though it does not logically imply that you receive special treatment.

This is what I…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:51:53 +1300 Euan Mason https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357876#post357876 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357876#post357876 The wording was "Māori should not receive any special treatment." I can't simply disagree with that statement because I take issue with the way it's phrased.

Completely agree. Meeting treaty obligations does not constitute "special treatment". This was a loaded question.

As for why the survey is being done by…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:45:21 +1300 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357869#post357869 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357869#post357869 Thanks Izogi,

There are definitely a few filters being applied in order to get a pre-determined result.

I actually I just completed the survey again on the same setup so there appears to be no system blocking on it. To me that seems like anyone can skew the results by…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:02:55 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357868#post357868 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357868#post357868 Tue, 15 Mar 2016 14:27:12 +1300 steve black https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357863#post357863 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357863#post357863 As far as I’m concerned Kiwimeter is not proper research. It is “entertainment” intended to increase audience participation for commercial gain, and should be evaluated as such. The approach might be defended in terms of “freedom of speech” but I think xkcd has the right answer to that claim:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:32:38 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357859#post357859 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357859#post357859 Where I did have trouble was in the later stages of trying to choose between say rugby and the All Blacks as a NZ symbol. I know both of those do represent NZ but not the actual NZ I live in.

That part struck me as very similar to a…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:29:37 +1300 Howard Edwards https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357858#post357858 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357858#post357858 Geoff – please point your students to Andrew Gelman's recent blog post about reporting published research – or at least quote him where he says:

Journalists who are writing about quantitative research should not hold the default belief that a published analysis is correct.

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:23:50 +1300 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357857#post357857 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357857#post357857 I just completed the “Kiwimeter” survey. Despite misgivings about the framing of certain questions I was able to answer most of them in a way that (somewhat) represented my views.

Where I did have trouble was in the later stages of trying to choose between say rugby and the All…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:09:26 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357856#post357856 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357856#post357856 More generally, this fits in with the overall TVNZ perspective, and its ingrained assumptions about "us" that go beyond racism. Most days you'll hear One News say something like:

"Oil prices are up – how will that affect your family at the petrol pump?"

"Interest rates down – what will…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:07:10 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357855#post357855 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357855#post357855 There was no acknowledgement that they might have screwed up. They think their questions are neutral.

I s'pose an argument would go that they're more interested in how people respond, not in what they mean.

But where is the value in that? What's being learned, if anything, at the cost…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:07:06 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357854#post357854 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357854#post357854 From the 'some of my best friends' school of debate:

"TVNZ's Gillespie said 120,000 people had already participated in the survey, including Māori." (Stuff report)

So that's OK then.

Stuff has opened up their story for comments, so we'll soon get the response of self-appointed "typical Kiwis". Best avoid, if…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:01:45 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357853#post357853 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357853#post357853 the first featuring Kelvin Davis, Metiria Turei, TVNZ's head of news, and the Canadian survey company CEO – and in more depth later, Marama Fox. ]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:43:22 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357851#post357851 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357851#post357851 The survey I did (promoted on Waitangi Day!) was run by http://www.voxpoplabs.com/ who seem to specialise in these exercises. It was about 15 minutes to do, very long, and the questions were much as the present Kiwimeter has, including the "special treament" questions.

I complained in the feedback form at…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:23:15 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357837#post357837 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357837#post357837 Giovanni Tiso considers the survey

http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.co.nz/2016/03/what-colour-is-our-nationalism.html

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:25:06 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357835#post357835 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357835#post357835 My own thought was that it certainly doesn’t seem too different from that dreadfully worded and highly criticised referendum question a few years ago, which did more to declare smacking kids was a good thing than to clearly ask if it should be legal.

How can you possibly answer a…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 07:21:21 +1300 Tze Ming Mok https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357831#post357831 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357831#post357831 I was part of the initial survey, I think. Done through Horizonpoll, certainly not called Kiwimeter at the time.

There's so little information about the original survey – who conducted it, what the questions were, how long it was, how it was carried out... I'd be interested in how you…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 02:18:27 +1300 TracyMac https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357829#post357829 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357829#post357829 I think these criticisms are pretty spot on. I almost didn't do it because, yes, I didn't want to be measured on "how much" I might be seen to be "kiwi".

As for the other issues, I just realised I answered them along the lines of "how true is this…

]]> Tue, 15 Mar 2016 01:47:42 +1300 Kirk Serpes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357827#post357827 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357827#post357827 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:36:44 +1300 kw https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357824#post357824 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357824#post357824 This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDdpxgJGXvM

To be fair, some of the NZAVS questions are a bit tricky for pedants as well, I vaguely remember a couple of gender questions making my eyes narrow. But I never mind putting in my two cents for the 50% of us whose aspirations differ.

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:34:18 +1300 Tze Ming Mok https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357822#post357822 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357822#post357822 TVNZ fails to acknowledge the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey. The latter has much greater validity than the former.

Exactly. If you start with the equivalent of a 'Herald online poll', you can't weight your way to a representative sample. You can only make…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:11:26 +1300 Aaron Dick https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357820#post357820 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357820#post357820 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 21:12:23 +1300 Marc C https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357818#post357818 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357818#post357818 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:31:54 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357815#post357815 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357815#post357815 survague...
TVNZ fails to acknowledge the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey.
Apparently I'm an 'Egalitarian' – but I had to end up putting in nonsense answers when no option I could identify with or against came up – and where was the 'neutral ground'…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 17:40:55 +1300 Brent Jackson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357814#post357814 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357814#post357814 Although eventually I made it to: YOUR CLOSEST FIT: Globalist

Yeah, that's what I got as well – don't think it really sounded like me though. Second best fit seemed much more apt : Egalitarian – Along with 22% of Kiwis

I'm guessing that my literal answers to some of…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 16:32:52 +1300 James Littlewood* https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357813#post357813 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357813#post357813 except TVNZ is actually now reporting on the online survey results as the results of the 'Kiwimeter'

Good grief, so they are. I see they've learned that Kiwis are fond of sport.

I'm impressed by your attempts to apologise for it on the grounds that it's a worthy subject. But…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:29:10 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357812#post357812 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357812#post357812 ...the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey.
It's more than a decade since an online poll had Destiny Church poised to win several seats in the 2005 election. While the faithful may have dutifully clicked away online, the long since deregistered Destiny New Zealand managed…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:11:20 +1300 Geoff Lealand https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357810#post357810 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357810#post357810 TVNZ fails to acknowledge the important distinctions between a self-selecting poll, and a properly sampled survey. The latter has much greater validity than the former.

Generally, there is a great deal of rubbish research around at the moment, exacerbated by the ease of online clicking. SayItNZ is a prime example…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:00:12 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357799#post357799 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357799#post357799 Here's the default TVNZ position: Chinese = immigrant. Kiwis = not ethnic Chinese.

One News reports on Chinese New year, in 2016. Note the language used, the distinctions made.

It's disturbing that such attitudes still prevail, and even more so that they go to air on our national – sorry,…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:32:16 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357793#post357793 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357793#post357793 I cannot get the Survey to work on my Mac/Firefox so still in the dark.

Bah, hitting "view post" clears the reply box. Russell!!!LL!L!L!

I think they're selecting against technically literate people, except for morbidly curious ones. I found it works in IE, because I have IE in a virtual…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:26:16 +1300 Tze Ming Mok https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357789#post357789 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357789#post357789 Actually, the introduction I saw said the survey is over, and that whatever they have on their website now simply invites us to profile ourselves against the results of that survey. Kina like the political compass thing a few years ago.

That's what I thought as well, except TVNZ is…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:01:17 +1300 Tze Ming Mok https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357787#post357787 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357787#post357787 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:54:40 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357785#post357785 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357785#post357785 Will the use of the findings and the data by TVNZ be driven by a need for enlightenment, or a need for controversy and profit?

Is the Pope Jewish, or ...?

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:49:28 +1300 EJ https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357784#post357784 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357784#post357784 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:48:29 +1300 James Littlewood* https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357779#post357779 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357779#post357779 “Māori should not receive any special treatment.”

WTF is "any special treatment"?

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:41:06 +1300 James Littlewood* https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357777#post357777 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357777#post357777 does that mean I am in a statistically negligible minority?

It might if the "survey" had adopted any kind of scientifically valid sampling that screened for media consumption.

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:29:18 +1300 James Littlewood* https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357776#post357776 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357776#post357776 So, the name of the survey influences people's answers, the questions' wording influence people's answers, and the way the survey is explained confuses people, so also potentially influences people's answers.

Actually, the introduction I saw said the survey is over, and that whatever they have on their website now simply…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:23:47 +1300 tony j ricketts https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357775#post357775 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357775#post357775 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:17:51 +1300 EJ https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357774#post357774 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357774#post357774 Somewhat disagree.

The wording was "Māori should not receive any special treatment." I can't simply disagree with that statement because I take issue with the way it's phrased. Of course, I can tell that for the purposes of the survey, my views align with the "strongly disagree" button – but…

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:07:57 +1300 Brent Jackson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357772#post357772 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357772#post357772 what TVNZ’s motives are in carrying out this kind of attitudinal research,

My guess would be that the follow up survey is being done purely to "engage" the public, so as to increase TVNZ viewing. The data being captured is irrelevant, and probably of very little use.

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:44:59 +1300 Ianmac https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357770#post357770 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357770#post357770 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:16:24 +1300 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357768#post357768 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357768#post357768 Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:07:32 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357767#post357767 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-real-problem-with-the-kiwimeter/?p=357767#post357767 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Mon, 14 Mar 2016 09:07:32 +1300