Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: The problem of “horror tenants” is dwarfed by that of horror houses

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:40:05 +1200

The difference with a landlord providing an unsafe house is that it’s an indirect harm, or risk of harm, to the tenant. We need tenancy law to protect tenants against this.
I entirely agree. In this particular case, though, Peter McLeod’s actions were a breach of tenancy law as well,…

Lilith __

Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:46:45 +1200

We don’t need tenancy law to tell us “neither landlord nor tenant may hit, bind, gag, or shoot each other”, do we?

Well, you might not think so, but…

Assault, kidnapping, threatening to kill, etc. are already crimes, though. I wouldn’t have thought anyone needed the Tenancy Tribunal to deal…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:09:20 +1200

We don’t need tenancy law to tell us “neither landlord nor tenant may hit, bind, gag, or shoot each other”, do we?

Well, you might not think so, but...
RTA s55 (1) Subject to subsection (2), on any application made to it under this section by the landlord, the Tribunal…

Moz

Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:18:22 +1200

These are violent attacks, rather than injury arising from provision of an unsafe rental house. We don't need tenancy law to tell us "neither landlord nor tenant may hit, bind, gag, or shoot each other", do we?

Well spotted! I imagine tenants could kill their landlord if they sufficiently damaged…

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:58:34 +1200

Actual cases of death, not that I can find in a quick google. There’s another case of landlord violence against a tenant (http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/6836602/Landlord-threatened-to-kill-tenant-claims), and a few couple of cases of tenants attacking landlords (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10566650 and http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3049176, but fortunately neither of them died.

These are violent attacks, rather than injury arising from provision…

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:07:05 +1200

Tenants who tear up the property in which they’re living aren’t just being negligent

And neither are the landlords who pocket bond money, withhold repairs, etc. etc. But in none of these situations does someone ACTUALLY DIE.

Moz

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:04:12 +1200

the landlord didn't set out to hurt his tenant

Well no, he just decided to save money by putting his tenant's life at risk. It's a fine line, like the people who get tickets for bald tyres don't actually intend to kill anyone, but they're given tickets because death is…

Chris Waugh

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:45:26 +1200

First, a language issue

Well, my instinct was to write "horror landlord", but the title of the original post had "horror houses" on the landlord side of the ledger, and what Matthew said, it's not like he actually set out to hurt anyone. There are different kinds of negligence, and…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:34:16 +1200

Let's just remember the landlord didn't set out to hurt his tenant, though as the article observes as a registered drain-layer he ought to have known better. Tenants who tear up the property in which they're living aren't just being negligent.

Six months of home D is pretty weak, assuming…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:48:54 +1200

Actual cases of death, not that I can find in a quick google. There's another case of landlord violence against a tenant (http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/6836602/Landlord-threatened-to-kill-tenant-claims), and a few couple of cases of tenants attacking landlords (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10566650 and http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3049176, but fortunately neither of them died.

Moz

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:26:53 +1200

Horror house, and the landlord gets 6 months home detention.

... and the tenant died.

First, a language issue: why do we have "horror houses" where the landlord is some background figure not worth mentioning, but "horror tenants" who are actual people?

Second, I wonder how many "horror tenants" actually…

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:49:27 +1200

how did you spot that quicker from literally half a world away? #onya

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:48:23 +1200

snap

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:47:55 +1200

Been fortunate to have good landlords. This person, not so much.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:35:03 +1200

Horror house, and the landlord gets 6 months home detention.

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 23 Jun 2014 08:09:39 +1200

TPA are awesome
They need a hand desperately!

This is something CERA should stump up for if it is genuine about really wanting to look out for the people of Chchch's best interests.

Meanwhile for concerned citizens,here is a link to the TPA donation page:
http://www.tpa.org.nz/page/donate

b.douglas

Sat, 21 Jun 2014 14:13:05 +1200

Hi Hebe, Thanks for that, yes TPA are awesome thanks!

Hebe

Fri, 20 Jun 2014 00:42:59 +1200

Tenants' Protection Association from Christchurch is the go-to. The website www.tpa.org.nz has huge amounts of information.

TPA has been advocating for the rental WOF for many years.

Steve Barnes

Thu, 19 Jun 2014 23:32:09 +1200

I think you can PM me on herenot a feature of the site (yet)
That little envelope thing to the right of your by line, you don't seem to have one but many do, is an eMail link so I reckon that is as good as PM if not the…

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:46:40 +1200

I think you can PM me on here

not a feature of the site (yet)

b.douglas

Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:51:19 +1200

Hi Lucy, Thanks I very much appreciate your generosity! I will google your email aftr the wkd with a few questns,any feedback greatly valued. Thanks again Beth.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Thu, 19 Jun 2014 08:55:48 +1200

If anyone has a good knowledge of the ResTenancies ActI know the RTA backwards (or like to think I do, anyway), if you have any specific questions. I think you can PM me on here, or my email address is easy to find in a google search.

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Jun 2014 23:04:04 +1200

What proportion of peiple are landlords? What proportion are renters?

And how many are "Mum & Dad Investors"? #Kidding

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:22:27 +1200

Any unchallenged obsession with rental income from leveraged rentals seems strange to me. What proportion of peiple are landlords? What proportion are renters?

b.douglas

Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:00:27 +1200

Also a big Thankyou to Public Address and Elinor for this much needd discussn on the way 'renters' are portrayd in the mainstream media and treatd and demonisd in a propertyboom with no capitalgains tax. Tenants have become the new beneficiary bashng recipients.

b.douglas

Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:40:46 +1200

Thanks Mathew I agree fire wouldv been easier! re numberng I had a tenancy with 3 separate numbers on the contract, lettng agent reciept and then the bond. Turndout it was not a legal dwellng as many rentals with unclear numbrng may be,and or tax dodging rental incomes. I am…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 18 Jun 2014 09:58:09 +1200

To be a little flippant, it’s much easier to find a fire than a burglar :P

lol

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jun 2014 09:47:29 +1200

“Tenants are encouraged to find a property that not only meets their needs and lifestyle"
"Lifestyle" being Ministry-speak for socio-economic level?

Matthew Poole

Wed, 18 Jun 2014 09:22:36 +1200

if itd been a fire i hate to thnk what mightv hapnd.

To be a little flippant, it's much easier to find a fire than a burglar :P

More seriously, I'm disturbed that landlords considered clear house numbering to be an unreasonable imposition.

As for curtains, without them it doesn't…

b.douglas

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 18:24:48 +1200

Lucy, great to read your posts. It is very difficult to impossble to do a kind of due diligence on rentals. landlords and propmgrs are vague at best of times re facts. let alone how do u test for mould or cold in one viewng, and in daytime. unfair and…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 17:12:20 +1200

Indeed. It's particularly underwhelming since our rental market tends to revolve around summer, and if a landlord's gone in and done a quick clean and paint, it can be hard to tell that the property's got a mould problem.

Lilith __

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 16:05:14 +1200

I think we need to do better than this:

A Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment spokeswoman said under the Residential Tenancies Act 1986, landlords must ensure the premises are maintained and comply with all health, safety and building regulations.

However, tenants should also be careful when choosing a property…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:25:00 +1200

Yes it is DIY but its his design unique to our house. We make just about everything in this house, from furniture, design and heating and renovation, so now we are moving to solar and a heating plenum chamber from the sun and a log burner, we have moved on…

Carol Stewart

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:13:51 +1200

Quite. It sounds horrid.

Lilith __

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:56:46 +1200

This sounds like a case where heating systems were adequate but the state of the house cancelled out any benefit.

Carol Stewart

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:48:32 +1200

Is that one of those HRV type systems, Lucy? When we were considering heating options for our house around 12 years ago we did entertain a visit from a HRV salesperson but I found him really, offputtingly aggressive and pushy; and I was very unconvinced about the underlying science as…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:33:32 +1200

No worries, Sofie, I know the type you mean. It'll be a DIY install of a positive pressure ventilation system. I'm crossing my fingers for some funding to research health effects of ventilation systems later this year :-)

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:25:25 +1200

Oh lucy, sorry , forgot, the heating we have transfers from the roof via fan into rooms when temp gets to a certain tempo adjustable and on timer and with readout in hall. I'll ask him to explain when I see him later

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:18:51 +1200

Yeah, I can't remember now why curtains went, but they went fast – before full testing even.

I've been watching landlord message boards out of curiosity to see which points would cause the most outrage (as opposed to the different questions of whether it should exist at all, and fears…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:08:54 +1200

*Is Barnzy a brand, or a South Islandism I’m not familiar with?

No its his name . :) I have seen what this girls mum is renting up North. She is a Solo Mother with 4 children at home at the mo. Her eldest is returning to work in Auckland…

Carol Stewart

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:07:05 +1200

Interesting to see rental property WOF taking shape, Lucy. It looks to me like it should apply to all properties and could be a useful tool for buying/selling.
I think it’s a pity that in NZ we are stuck with this old housing stock which is not designed for NZ’s…

Lilith __

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 13:53:56 +1200

Cheers Lucy. Appreciate your perspectives on these issues.

ETA: interesting list, thank you. I boggle that curtains are being taken off! Glad that visible mould is counted.

ETA2: I should really get onto my landlady about the bullet-hole in my bedroom window. It dates from a previous tenant, and she…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 13:39:27 +1200

Sorry about that, patronising was not my intention.

And I had forgotten that Christchurchers mostly couldn’t have woodburners at all, which was almost as rude as forgetting that the draughts may have been recent additions to the house. So a bit of rudeness in response would have been entirely justified.…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 11:47:41 +1200

Thanks Lilith. I would have been rude.

It's always interesting when others tell you about your "own" personal experiences. ;)
Must say though ,because we decided to take this house off the market for now, I'm fascinated to think that we should get the chimney swept (after not using it…

Hebe

Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:06:58 +1200

Thanks Lilith. I would have been rude.

Lilith __

Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:46:16 +1200

Lucy, I'm sure it's not necessary to be patronising.

As you may know, logburners are not an option for many people in Chch due to tight air-pollution restrictions. And much of our housing stock is old, and made much damper and draughtier by earthquake damage.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 16 Jun 2014 12:31:43 +1200

I'm glad to hear your son's asthma has gone, Hebe, but I'd hesitate to lambast heatpumps as "dreadful in a draughty old house" based on a sample of one (see also anecdotal evidence). As you'd moved house, there would be a lot of other exposures that would have changed at…

Hebe

Sat, 14 Jun 2014 11:56:09 +1200

Otherwise, as Moz points out, the market doesn’t yet value energy-efficiency measures.

It does in Christchurch: no insulation in ceiling and lack of effective heating (heat pumps/woodburner) definitely devalue a house. However double glazing and solar or heat pump hot water are still seen as luxuries for older houses.

Retrofits…

Lilith __

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:38:19 +1200

the market has (as I would see it) woken up to insulation in the last few years. I doubt insulation would have made that list at all 10 years ago

I'm glad to hear it. I do think there's a case for making some of these things mandatory from a…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:47:52 +1200

True. And after reading that previous paper, I found this, which would suggest that the market has (as I would see it) woken up to insulation in the last few years. I doubt insulation would have made that list at all 10 years ago.

Lilith __

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:41:11 +1200

I can’t speak for Auckland, but down here in the South Island where we get freezing-cold winters? I’m sure it does

Christchurch research suggests otherwise.

I was talking about having a good heat source for winter – a logburner or heat pump. And insulation to keep the heat in. It's…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:35:39 +1200

I can’t speak for Auckland, but down here in the South Island where we get freezing-cold winters? I’m sure it does
Christchurch research suggests otherwise. "Many of the voluntary measures introduced by Governments to improve the energy efficiency of residential housing are still not considered important by buyers, indicating that…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:29:50 +1200

I’d assumed that the removal of depreciation meant a total removal of depreciation – interesting to see it’s still available for chattels.

Nope. Houses no longer depreciate at a specified rate, but the chattels still do in accordance with IRD's published depreciation rates.
This article does a pretty good job…

Lilith __

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:20:02 +1200

Otherwise, as Moz points out, the market doesn’t yet value energy-efficiency measures.

I can't speak for Auckland, but down here in the South Island where we get freezing-cold winters? I'm sure it does.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:05:58 +1200

Thanks Lilith, I'd assumed that the removal of depreciation meant a total removal of depreciation – interesting to see it's still available for chattels.
The Heat Smart subsidy for installing energy efficient heating is no longer part of the Warm Up New Zealand subsidy programme (the scheme is now [[http://www.eeca.govt.nz/eeca-programmes-and-funding/programmes/homes/insulation-programme|targetted…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 13 Jun 2014 10:00:39 +1200

we’re battling the same mentality that exports logs and milk powder

And considers them to be the height of export success, to boot.

Sacha

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 20:14:23 +1200

their property will be more attractive for tenants and may command a higher rental

we're battling the same mentality that exports logs and milk powder
#ambishus

Lilith __

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:51:21 +1200

As I understand it, landlords can claim the cost of a new heating system back through depreciation (as it’s a chattel). This may need to be paid back to IRD if the house is subsequently sold for a higher value. ( source )

Bottom line, the landlord can’t lose.

And…

Moz

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:12:22 +1200

Government subsidy, tax-write-off, increase in value of property.

Of which the first appeals to everyone, the second only to those who can't do maths, and the latter deserves a hollow laugh.

We're trying to buy a house right now, and the one good thing is that green features are worthless…

Lilith __

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:28:49 +1200

At present, the only incentives for landlords to install such heating are decency; the potential to attract better and longer term tenants; and the possibility of charging more rent.

Government subsidy, tax-write-off, increase in value of property.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:15:59 +1200

You’d expect a rent increase for providing some form of heating?Not for a $60 oil column heater, no. But the WoF requires fixed and effective (i.e. enough kW to heat the living space) heating – which ideally means heatpumps, woodburners, flued gas heaters, and other heating fixtures that tend to…

Lilith __

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:54:24 +1200

You'd expect a rent increase for providing some form of heating?

In this instance it was an oil-column heater, costing around $60.

I'd like to offer a bouquet to the excellent landlords out there who deal fairly, provide safe and healthy houses, order prompt repairs when required, and don't unduly…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:59:20 +1200

It’s even possible they acted out of basic human decency. Tax-deductible decencyOf course, and lots do – and buying a heater is probably counted as capital expenditure and therefore not tax deductible, except (then, not any more) for depreciation, so is even more a sign of decency if it's put…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:32:37 +1200

A friend just reminded me that one of her landlords refused to provide more than one plug to the household.

But, but, the horror tenants!

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:04:40 +1200

A friend just reminded me that one of her landlords refused to provide more than one plug to the household. It had to be moved between kitchen sink, laundry tub and bath.

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 20:24:35 +1200

If the landlord knew his/her rights better – or rather, was more up with the play, since it’s definitely arguable whether it really is a landlord’s right to only provide a power point –

It's even possible they acted out of basic human decency. Tax-deductible decency.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 18:17:26 +1200

Good to hear, Lilith – though the landlord’s responsibility to fix the broken oven comes from the RTA rather than the HIR; and I’m surprised but pleased to hear that you successfully used it to get a landlord to provide a heater. If the landlord knew his/her rights better -…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 16:58:11 +1200

Lilith, the list you’re thinking of is the Housing Improvement Regulations 1947. In theory, they’re still in force, via the Health Act.

Aha! Thank you.
In practice I have successfully used 10-day-letters for landlords in breach of these regulations. (when there was no heater provided; when the oven stopped working…

izogi

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 16:53:30 +1200

Share housing in Australia is even more fraught, FWIW. [….] But those requirement also seem to be rarely enforced, we’ve had inspections where there were obviously 7 people living there with 3 on the lease and the agent didn’t blink.

I was never in a flatting situation in Australia, but…

B Jones

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 16:11:49 +1200

My first flat was periodic, and I considered it a concession when I agreed to a fixed term lease in return for the landlord replacing the awful carpet and undersized hot water cylinder. My second flat was a year to begin with, then went periodic. It's a pain when you're…

Kirk Alexander

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:59:31 +1200

Anybody know figures on how much of the rental market is on periodic agreements vs. fixed-term? Other than a bit of living-with-the-landlord I've always had fixed-term leases. I can't really imagine choosing to live with a periodic agreement, mind you I probably overestimated my rights in the living-with-the-landlord situations...

George Darroch

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:50:52 +1200

The current interpretation of “Every living room shall be fitted with a fireplace and chimney or other approved form of heating” is that there has to be a power point in the living room so you can plug your heater in. Which seems completely contrary to what I was taught…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:31:59 +1200

“Every living room shall be fitted with a fireplace and chimney or other approved form of heating”

Our living room has said fireplace and chimney, so the house is compliant. I presume the law does not include words to the effect that such must be kept in working order at…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:01:17 +1200

Lilith, the list you’re thinking of is the Housing Improvement Regulations 1947. In theory, they’re still in force, via the Health Act. In practice, because they fall under the Health Act rather than, say, the Building Act or the Residential Tenancies Act, they’re so loose as to be useless. Sometimes…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:09:44 +1200

Landlords are required to provide some form of heating.

Really? Our place has nothing, other than a fireplace that we’re forbidden to use because the chimney hasn’t been swept in forever. All the heaters are supplied by ourselves.

Somewhere, somewhere, there is a list, which I can't currently find. I…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:06:32 +1200

I have been on both sides of the share house issue, often, and I don’t think the law can really do much.

Well, apart from require formal agreements.

__Or, in the absence of a specific agreement, apply a form agreement to all such arrangements; much the same way that there’re…

Moz

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:02:52 +1200

I'm talking about situations where the landlord lives on the premises, which is not currently covered by the Act. What are you talking about?

Share houses, where either the lease-holder or the owner has tenants who aren't covered by the act. Where it's a lease everyone can go on the…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:51:01 +1200

apart from require formal agreements. Which would give everybody rights and responsibilities.

How would that not just become another weapon to use against disadvantaged people? Whatever improvement you’re suggesting has to be both cheaper and easier than signing a lease, and should also be better for the leasee/landlord than what…

Moz

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:36:27 +1200

apart from require formal agreements. Which would give everybody rights and responsibilities.

How would that not just become another weapon to use against disadvantaged people? Whatever improvement you're suggesting has to be both cheaper and easier than signing a lease, and should also be better for the leasee/landlord than what…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:33:47 +1200

the government-level solution should be more aimed at removing the need for that market.

Which would require, for one thing, a massive increase in welfare payments and accommodation supplements.

Matthew Poole

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:31:41 +1200

I have been on both sides of the share house issue, often, and I don’t think the law can really do much.

Well, apart from require formal agreements.

Or, in the absence of a specific agreement, apply a form agreement to all such arrangements; much the same way that there're…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:25:52 +1200

Landlords are required to provide some form of heating.

Really? Our place has nothing, other than a fireplace that we're forbidden to use because the chimney hasn't been swept in forever. All the heaters are supplied by ourselves.

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:24:14 +1200

I have been on both sides of the share house issue, often, and I don’t think the law can really do much.

Well, apart from require formal agreements. Which would give everybody rights and responsibilities.

Moz

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:13:05 +1200

the housing crisis in Chch is a scandal.

still a scandal.

I don't want to rehash the whole thing, and I'm not sure that rental tenancy reform is the most pressing issue here. I think the real solution is a change of government. But anyway, tenancies...

I have been on…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:11:05 +1200

Landlords are required to provide some form of heating. In one place I lived this was an open coal fire. I had to vigorously argue with the landlady that we needed a grate for the fire. (She said the last people had been happy to "just put things in the…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:45:54 +1200

Not wishing to threadjack, but the housing crisis in Chch is a scandal.

This single Mum in Chch is living in a damp, leaky caravan with her 3 kids. Six months trying to find any other shelter has been fruitless: rents are unaffordable, emergency shelters are full, Housing NZ says…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:38:58 +1200

Landlords are remarkably free from effective restrictions on who they can rent to. Or not rent to.

Key word, of course, being "effective". In NZ, at least, the Human Rights Act applies to residential tenancies other than ones where it's accommodation shared with the landlord. Proving discrimination on a prohibited…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:36:13 +1200

I don’t personally have much problem with landlords/head tenants being able to turf their flatmates out with no notice. It’s a different deal when you’re living with someone.

Huh? No problem with tenants being evicted with no notice, at the fiat of the landlord? I had this happen once, merely…

Moz

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:27:27 +1200

Oh, and can we talk about "renting while black"? I've lost count of the number of open inspections I've turned up to in Sydney where the agent has looked around, seen the one tall, affluent white guy and blatantly written off everyone else in the room. It's worth me dressing…

Moz

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:22:44 +1200

Share housing in Australia is even more fraught, FWIW. A lot of leases absolutely forbid anyone not on the lease from being resident, or agents require that they have "agreements" with every resident that make going on the lease look attractive. And they often charge a week's rent to change…

Moz

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:15:17 +1200

I don't personally have much problem with landlords/head tenants being able to turf their flatmates out with no notice. It's a different deal when you're living with someone.

I was amused once when I called the cops and they took my word for it that I was the tenant and…

Tom

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:52:25 +1200

I think this comment demonstrates one of the flaws of the WOF proposal. Compliance costs for landlords (which will be higher the greater the standards set by the WOF) could drive rents up beyond the affordability of the very tenants who the WOF process is trying to protect.

Rent prices…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:45:48 +1200

I wonder how strongly the whole 'horror tenants' issue, as well as the Glen Innes evictions, is tied to the housing bubble and attempts to preserve the status quo at any cost.

Emma Hart

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:10:16 +1200

Also worth noting that the usual 90-days’ notice to vacate can be reduced to 42 days if the house is sold or is wanted by the landlord for a family member. This is not uncommon and is a panic-inducing situation for the tenant.

This happened to good friends of ours.…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:25:30 +1200

In this situation, which is common, the landlord is not required to give the tenant any notice at all to vacate, except they must wait for the rent already paid to expire. (ie. if you’ve paid a week or a fortnight in advance, that time must elapse)Not under the Residential…

Stephen R

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:42:32 +1200

With that possibility hanging over tenants, is it any wonder we don't fight for our legitimate rights when we are shortchanged?

We rented a house that was being used as a squat when we tried to move in – although we never met whoever was living there, we put their…

Andrew Robertson

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:16:21 +1200

We own our house now (well, nearly 20% of it), but we had very mixed experiences when renting.

We were the sort of tenants who believed in leaving things in better shape than we found them, and taking care of small problems ourselves if it was easy enough to do.…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 01:14:33 +1200

The Residential Tenancies Act does not cover…

Lilith __

Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:54:39 +1200

I've had great landlords and awful ones, most are somewhere in the middle.

But bottom line, if landlords get ripped off, they still have somewhere to live. Landlords can make tenants homeless. NZ does not offer tenants the legal protections given in some European countries.

With that possibility hanging over…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 18:20:56 +1200

Eli's point, though, or one of them, is that landlords had a choice about whether or not to invest in real estate. Even if you are an "accidental" landlord, renting out your house because you're somewhere else for a while, or because you couldn't sell it for the price you…

Chris Waugh

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 18:13:42 +1200

ETA: Forget what I just wrote. Seems I misinterpreted your comment. Sorry.

RBentley

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:56:09 +1200

The 21 day notice that tenants need to give is not "compensation", neither does it give them "power". It is simply an arbitrary figure based on the assessment that it is easier for a landlord to re-let than it is for a tenant to find alternative accommodation. That is no…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 15:00:07 +1200

What hasn’t been mentioned is that tenants have to give only 21 days notice of termination compared with the landlord’s 90 days.

Yes, and one of these is probably accompanied by having somewhere to go whereas the other may or not have the same accompaniment. Pardon us for not considering…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:50:39 +1200

I agree entirely that the landlord-tenant power relationship is heavily imbalanced, in favour of the landlord. I also agree that the option to take a matter to the Tenancy Tribunal is not exactly a simple solution, and was just this afternoon having a conversation with Eli (whose office is down…

RBentley

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:37:42 +1200

What hasn't been mentioned is that tenants have to give only 21 days notice of termination compared with the landlord's 90 days. Until recently it has sometimes taken several months to find a new tenant. Tenancy arrears and damage are theoretically enforcable through the Tribunal or court systems but the…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:37:14 +1200

If rent is increased beyond market rate, the tenant can apply to the Tenancy Tribunal for a market rent order.

Which is almost as much use as nothing at all in Auckland and Christchurch. In areas with healthily-functioning rental markets, sure, it's worth something. In those two cities, though, especially…

ChrisB

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:36:49 +1200

A tenant who cannot afford a rental that’s not dangerous to their health is screwed

Dylan Reeve

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:35:54 +1200

Not entirely accurate.
If rent is increased beyond market rate, the tenant can apply to the Tenancy Tribunal for a market rent order. Adjudicators use Department of Housing, Tenancy Services data-based statistics to determine local market rents.

But then there is the inequality of power issue. Sure you might be…

izogi

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:35:41 +1200

I agree that there are many great landlords who take great care of their properties

It’s not a certain thing, but generally our own experience has been that renting direct from owners is a much better experience than renting through property agents.

More often than not, we’ve found that agents…

Danielle

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:17:59 +1200

A landlord whose property is damaged by tenants can seek a judicial remedy which is enforceable through the courts.

That is true, but it doesn't guarantee that the landlord actually gets any money back. My grandfather's estate is still waiting for any repayment of the $5000 in back rent and…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:55:18 +1200

ETA: Also courtesy of National, there is no limit on how much a landlord can increase rent provided it’s not raised more often than once every 180 days. Not entirely accurate.
If rent is increased beyond market rate, the tenant can apply to the Tenancy Tribunal for a market rent…

Abbie

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:30:03 +1200

Agree there is a need to tackle sub standard rental housing stock. Which includes state houses – it is appalling that many of these remain uninsulated and without a source of efficient heating. Social housing should lead the way with basic standards, not be exempt from it. I do not…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:26:12 +1200

we know for a fact that many rental houses are damp and cold, and injurious to health, and it’s not ok. Damage by tenants is really awful, but we do have the courts to deal with that issue.

Precisely. A landlord whose property is damaged by tenants can seek a…

Elinor Chisholm

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:58:31 +1200

I agree that there are many great landlords who take great care of their properties – I've been fortunate enough to live in some of those properties. At the same time, we know for a fact that many rental houses are damp and cold, and injurious to health, and it's…

Ben McNicoll

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:49:54 +1200

#NotAllLandlords ?

Matthew Poole

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:36:01 +1200

And they don’t, as Matthew Poole says, have the right to put tenants on the street for no reason. There is tenancy law and the 90 day notice.

Uh, the 90-day notice is "no reason". Quoting from s51, Residential Tenancies Act 1986:

(3) Every notice to terminate a tenancy shall—…

Abbie

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:14:35 +1200

I think this piece is as polarising as the Herald story that preceded it. Yes, much of our rental housing is unacceptably poor (the rental house WOF has much going for it). Yes there are greedy, uncaring landlords – but not all. And they don't, as Matthew Poole says, have…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:14:44 +1200

I am sure that part of the reason for NZ’s very high level of owner-occupied housing is that tenants here have so very little protection against the power of their landlords. The tenant can trash the joint and refuse to pay rent, but the landlord can put them on the…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:57:41 +1200

Chchch is a place where some pretty crap houses are being rented for large sums, too, and the short-term rental industry has attracted the IRDs interest..
Thousands of first-time landlords in Christchurch risk being snared by the tax department for failing to declare extra income from rentals.
More than 40,000…

Russell Brown

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:51:47 +1200

And in the Herald this morning ...

Landlords 'too lenient' when tenants go off rails

Say property managers ...

Landlords are too lenient when a tenant falls behind in rent or causes damage, property managers say.

Of the 39,808 claims lodged with the Tenancy Tribunal between July 13 and May 2014,…

Public Address

Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:51:46 +1200

Discussion from blog post.