Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: The Government lost the election https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=378704#post378704 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=378704#post378704 Tue, 17 Apr 2018 08:40:48 +1200 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=378694#post378694 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=378694#post378694 Mon, 16 Apr 2018 19:32:28 +1200 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=378691#post378691 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=378691#post378691 MMP Ignorance Update: still as strong as ever.

TVNZ Colmar Brunton poll shows government (would be) comfortably re-elected. But National WIN!!11!

Of course they do.

]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2018 18:31:18 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377108#post377108 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377108#post377108 Meanwhile over the ditch:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-18/greens-win-northcote-by-election/9164644

]]> Sun, 19 Nov 2017 10:36:18 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377099#post377099 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377099#post377099 Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:37:37 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377098#post377098 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377098#post377098 The Greens started in MMP with incumbent MPs, and support from Labour in Coromandel.

You miss the point. The Greens started as a party in 1990, well before the Clark/Anderton deal and before Fitzsimmons was elected. They were already a party when they joined with New Labour (and others) to…

]]> Sat, 18 Nov 2017 00:28:46 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377097#post377097 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377097#post377097 Nope. The Greens existed before the Alliance. The Alliance was, in effect, a mini-coalition of different parties, hence the name. Parties have to grow themselves.

This is sort of what I'm complaining about, though. The Green Party most likely wouldn't have been able to enter parliament if it didn't already…

]]> Fri, 17 Nov 2017 22:58:59 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377093#post377093 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377093#post377093 Under the current MMP system, if MPs can't defect from parties then it's effectively a death sentence for the future of having any small parties at all, because when the existing ones die off it's impossible for new small parties to replace them.

Nope. The Greens existed before the Alliance.…

]]> Fri, 17 Nov 2017 18:26:22 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377089#post377089 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377089#post377089 Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:46:54 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377088#post377088 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377088#post377088 Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:53:00 +1300 John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377087#post377087 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377087#post377087 Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:24:41 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377084#post377084 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377084#post377084 Re yesterday's media, does anyone know much about what's in the works for the NZ First legislation to prevent MPs jumping parties?

It hit media yesterday with news that the Greens are considering supporting it in exchange for legislating Parihaka Day. NZ Herald; Stuff.

I'm very concerned about this and surprised…

]]> Fri, 17 Nov 2017 11:16:11 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377080#post377080 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377080#post377080 I do like this photo of our PM Jacinda Ardern explaining the function of the fulcrum in rotational mechanics to the aptly named Australian PM Turnbull.

(or in layman's terms: 'Malc, ya just sit on it and rotate...")

]]> Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:35:24 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377079#post377079 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377079#post377079 imaginative fiction posing as analysis in an international forum.
This is starting to look like it should be an award category – and this ex-National Party Adviser is a worthy contender.
Who knew there was a 'Diplomat' magazine dedicated to cheap guitars...

It never fails to amuse me (bordering on…

]]> Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:56:55 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377078#post377078 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377078#post377078 More imaginative fiction posing as analysis in an international forum.

It will come as a surprise to Helen Clark to know that the Maori Party propped up her government, or that NZ First were on board from 1999. It will come as a huge surprise to Pasifika people to learn…

]]> Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:18:54 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377061#post377061 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377061#post377061 http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018621572/media-commentator-gavin-ellis About 11m45s in. ]]> Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:33:24 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377035#post377035 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377035#post377035 18 reasons why New Zealand is like North Korea. ]]> Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:26:44 +1300 John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377034#post377034 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377034#post377034 David Slack also has a response.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98777467/David-Slack-Thats-not-a-tiki-torch-its-a-tiki

]]> Sun, 12 Nov 2017 14:13:27 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377033#post377033 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377033#post377033 Tim Watkin has a response in the Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/11/09/no-new-zealand-is-not-in-the-poisonous-grip-of-the-far-right/?utm_term=.e7219eb057eb

]]> Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:33:17 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377030#post377030 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377030#post377030 The like button on Facebook et al, is specifically there so those MacDonald’s shit-food style ’social media’ outfits can observe the habits of people who click on it. That data is how they make billions on money.

PAS, is a genuine internet based community. It’s not a shopping mall. I…

]]> Sat, 11 Nov 2017 23:33:20 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377028#post377028 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377028#post377028 Sat, 11 Nov 2017 20:39:09 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377027#post377027 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377027#post377027 Methinks Ben Mack is playing with the gas flow for dramatic and psychological doubt-inducing purposes as well…
No one else seems to be around so I'll just talk among my selves...

I've been thinking further about this Ben Mack character, I can't decide if he has been misled or is…

]]> Sat, 11 Nov 2017 20:19:42 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377026#post377026 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377026#post377026 NZ-based ex-RussianTV/Ruptly acolyte (and NZ Herald writer) presents distorted view of NZ to the USA!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/11/08/how-the-far-right-is-poisoning-new-zealand/?utm_term=.a9bb4a82934d
What’s happened in New Zealand isn’t just horrifying because of the long-term implications of hate-mongers controlling the country, but also because it represents a blueprint that the far right can follow to seize power…

]]> Sat, 11 Nov 2017 07:36:16 +1300 John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377020#post377020 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377020#post377020 Thu, 09 Nov 2017 21:58:06 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377019#post377019 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377019#post377019 Thu, 09 Nov 2017 20:14:45 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377015#post377015 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377015#post377015 I wonder if anyone else in NZF apart from Peters knew at the time of negotiations of this planned legal action. How many feel somewhat duped at the moment.

Certainly if Ardern or English had known they would have treated Peters’ negotiation positions differently.

]]> Thu, 09 Nov 2017 08:30:15 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377011#post377011 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=377011#post377011 Peters’ ability to act on his personal grudges turns out to be the big election winner.

He never intended to go with National and a big reason wasn’t concern for NZ’s future but his grudges.

]]> Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:49:14 +1300 WH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376969#post376969 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376969#post376969 Tue, 07 Nov 2017 10:17:50 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376966#post376966 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376966#post376966 We should work on reducing our costs – like housing – instead.

Too right, if NZ can stand up to its unelected House of Land-Lords who have too much to lose from any challenge to the status quo.

We also need to take upskilling a lot more seriously than successive…

]]> Mon, 06 Nov 2017 22:24:35 +1300 WH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376965#post376965 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376965#post376965 I hope the coalition focuses on reducing the cost of living and making New Zealand’s exports more competitive.

The proposed increase in the minimum wage to $20 in 2020 would take it to more than three times the 1990 minimum of $6.125. Consumer prices [[https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/inflation-calculator|have increased by a factor of…

]]> Mon, 06 Nov 2017 19:40:57 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376964#post376964 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376964#post376964 sending Hosking to Damascus.

Or Bir Tawil

No government to distract him there. He'd have to find a new hobby.

]]> Mon, 06 Nov 2017 14:05:02 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376960#post376960 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376960#post376960 I hope that road to Damascus didn't damage his nice car's suspension...

I wonder if we could crowdfund actually sending Hosking to Damascus...

]]> Sat, 04 Nov 2017 19:54:37 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376954#post376954 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376954#post376954 “…an older male journalist who simply needs to, kind of, update or move on…”
There is no shortage of these it seems – Martin van Beynen.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/98509688/more-cops-wont-make-our-communities-safer

and apparently Hosking now says that governments don't matter at all, at all – I hope that road to Damascus didn't damage his nice…

]]> Fri, 03 Nov 2017 14:50:50 +1300 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376953#post376953 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376953#post376953 I read this from “…an older male journalist who simply needs to, kind of, update or move on…”

Then I heard Golriz Ghahraman saying we could take 150 Manus island refugees comfortably in the Mangere refugee centre, maybe 250 if we fit out some rooms in bunks and I thought my…

]]> Fri, 03 Nov 2017 13:57:19 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376951#post376951 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376951#post376951 Toby Manhire nails it with this piece today
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11939954

...while Barry Soper (who I won't even give oxygen by linking) is, well Barry Soper. Sad!

]]> Fri, 03 Nov 2017 09:45:48 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376949#post376949 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376949#post376949 the guy in his heyday has nailed his role for me ever since it was published without an obvious author credit on Bryce Edwards' blog back in 2011. Anyone have… ]]> Thu, 02 Nov 2017 19:40:35 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376947#post376947 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376947#post376947 Joyce has plenty of experience rubbishing others; where he has little experience is in NOT having his bullshit automatically believed by being in government. If he's performing poorly now, that says more about the NZ media's habitual leg-humping of National than about Joyce himself.

Joyce likes to call himself a…

]]> Thu, 02 Nov 2017 19:14:19 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376946#post376946 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376946#post376946 Thu, 02 Nov 2017 18:23:26 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376945#post376945 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376945#post376945 Thu, 02 Nov 2017 17:42:44 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376942#post376942 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376942#post376942 by the look of Kiwiblog is also struggling with multiple stages of grief and denial

I've noticed (from Twitter) he's gone back to pretty much commenting on news articles constantly. I think that's probably more of a sign of time on his hands.

]]> Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:41:26 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376941#post376941 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376941#post376941 I don’t think I’ve looked at that swamp since I read Dirty Politics

Yes, it's been a good long while for me, too. Can't see any point.

]]> Thu, 02 Nov 2017 16:39:28 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376938#post376938 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376938#post376938 Thu, 02 Nov 2017 14:06:37 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376937#post376937 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376937#post376937 ...spare a thought for David Farrar...I mean, it is obvious that every day he awakens, slaughters a chicken and eagerly scans it's entrails for portents of coalition collapse. He may need a comforting corner when he realises it is just denial.

Chickens, bah. That only worked when the Nats had…

]]> Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:21:47 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376936#post376936 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376936#post376936 Dirty Politics ]]> Thu, 02 Nov 2017 12:48:04 +1300 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376935#post376935 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376935#post376935 Now, I know we’ve all been chortling at Mike Hosking’s descent into self-parody with his pissed off and splenetic daily outbursts, but should we spare a thought for David Farrar, who by the look of Kiwiblog is also struggling with multiple stages of grief and denial?

I mean, it is…

]]> Thu, 02 Nov 2017 12:30:50 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376921#post376921 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376921#post376921 Wed, 01 Nov 2017 20:15:38 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376919#post376919 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376919#post376919 Ron Mark ain't helping... promising new spending on the fly.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98435480/ron-mark-goes-offscript-to-promise-more-money-to-rsa

]]> Wed, 01 Nov 2017 18:01:27 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376897#post376897 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376897#post376897 Andin means this story, I think...

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/26-10-2017/the-party-isnt-over-why-nationals-message-is-needed-now-more-than-ever/

Just as the Hooverites and Forbes-Coatesians were caught off guard by the 1930s Great Depression, today's Thatcherite/Reaganomic holdouts must have slept through the Great Recession and the bank bailouts.

]]> Tue, 31 Oct 2017 23:36:40 +1300 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376896#post376896 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376896#post376896 Tue, 31 Oct 2017 23:32:09 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376893#post376893 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376893#post376893 I'm making the wild assumption that there is a small pool of non journos willing to write opinion pieces for small / no money.

able to afford to do so.

]]> Tue, 31 Oct 2017 22:42:14 +1300 John Farrell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376859#post376859 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376859#post376859 Andin means this story, I think...

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/26-10-2017/the-party-isnt-over-why-nationals-message-is-needed-now-more-than-ever/

]]> Tue, 31 Oct 2017 07:31:52 +1300 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376856#post376856 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376856#post376856 If you are referring to Wayne Mapp, I would note that he has long been the kind of guy who writes long pieces and publishes them on various sites, like Pundit and I have noticed that there is some crossover between of the non journo writers.

I'm making the wild…

]]> Mon, 30 Oct 2017 22:17:14 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376813#post376813 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376813#post376813 help keep the media in check

Seems no one can be relied upon to keep themselves in check anymore, including the media. I'm thinking of Spinoff who commissioned a former National ministerial adviser to write a puerile piece that the Nats must defend against "socialists and populists" Using cooked statistics…

]]> Sun, 29 Oct 2017 10:22:47 +1300 Dennis Frank https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376811#post376811 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376811#post376811 I don't see that it's MMP's job to make them more cohesive and powerful than they already are.

I share that sentiment. I was endorsing the agreement of Labour/NZF because I believe it is more important that the new government succeeds.

If, at the end of the electoral cycle, it…

]]> Sat, 28 Oct 2017 02:32:53 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376806#post376806 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376806#post376806 so waka-jumping legislation is obviously necessary – to ensure that history does not repeat itself!

I don't reckon. It's one of the few actually good things about elected representatives, that they can actually break from their party under conditions that they find compelling enough. Parties are still the shadow cast…

]]> Fri, 27 Oct 2017 12:04:05 +1300 Geoff Lealand https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376795#post376795 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376795#post376795 Thu, 26 Oct 2017 21:53:25 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376756#post376756 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376756#post376756 It's in our common interest that this new govt survives its term & delivers suitable results as specified in the coalition agreement.

It's often forgotten but worth remembering that in Oz the Gillard minority government got an awful lot done and was very stable, except at top where Rudd worked tirelessly…

]]> Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:09:12 +1300 Dennis Frank https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376754#post376754 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376754#post376754 Not according to this capsule review: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98199369/why-winston-wants-to-stop-waka-jumping--again

However you may have a point here. It's in our common interest that this new govt survives its term & delivers suitable results as specified in the coalition agreement. The coalition, if we choose to see the Greens as part of it, is potentially…

]]> Wed, 25 Oct 2017 12:43:36 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376736#post376736 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376736#post376736 Tue, 24 Oct 2017 21:37:48 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376733#post376733 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376733#post376733 Tue, 24 Oct 2017 17:05:31 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376729#post376729 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376729#post376729 The Greens are in government ministerial positions for the first time in NZ's history. How that could be anything short of a fantastic result for the Greens is beyond me.

It's a first for Australasia. As long as Australian Labor remains in thrall to big mining, both major federal parties…

]]> Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:40:25 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376724#post376724 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376724#post376724 Leftists celebrating what seems to them a win (I share the relief & anticipation) ought to beware framing it as a victory for the left.

I feel pretty happy calling it a win for the Left. You'd have to define the Greens and Labour as being not on the Left to…

]]> Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:16:22 +1300 Dennis Frank https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376712#post376712 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376712#post376712 We need to wait until the text of the coalition agreement gets published. All we can say at this stage is that we have a center-left government in the process of emerging (like a butterfly from a chrysalis).

Leftists celebrating what seems to them a win (I share the relief…

]]> Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:38:50 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376614#post376614 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376614#post376614 It’s real, it happened, she did it. Too awesome.

Yep, amazing. Now the task of proving it to be the dream team. Can't wait to hear all those taking Ministerial portfolios across the three coalition partners – people who want to make progress, as opposed to excuses.

]]> Fri, 20 Oct 2017 08:55:05 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376613#post376613 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376613#post376613 Fri, 20 Oct 2017 00:49:32 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376611#post376611 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376611#post376611 Labour coalition govt – yeehah – so far so good!

Against seemingly impossible odds too.

]]> Thu, 19 Oct 2017 19:37:44 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376610#post376610 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376610#post376610 Thu, 19 Oct 2017 19:28:26 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376608#post376608 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376608#post376608 ’old codger’ exposes himself on radio!
Newstalk ZB host Leighton Smith called Jacinda Ardern a “chicky babe” during a broadcast on Wednesday.
Smith was discussing one-on-one coalition talks between the Labour Party leader and her New Zealand First counterpart Winston Peter, which took place on Tuesday evening.
Shortly after the…

]]> Thu, 19 Oct 2017 07:29:08 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376505#post376505 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376505#post376505 Unfair on Audrey Young. Her summary is factual and fair, it's just filtered through the weekend kids at the Herald online.

It really is an embarrassingly bad website. Errors abound, every day.

]]> Sat, 07 Oct 2017 15:38:04 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376503#post376503 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376503#post376503 Sat, 07 Oct 2017 15:02:59 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376502#post376502 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376502#post376502 Virtually every commentator in the country has been calling the two seat transfer from special votes, but Audrey Young is shocked... Shocked, I tell you.

Was there ever a scenario where National somehow gained seats? Only in Audrey's imagination or some bizarre alternative universe.

To be fair, the story doesn't match…

]]> Sat, 07 Oct 2017 14:24:17 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376500#post376500 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376500#post376500 buggrit, ran out of editing time:
wrong
in the sense of showing incomplete understanding of the system.
["Don't know" responses presumably should be included in that category.]

]]> Fri, 06 Oct 2017 06:24:45 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376499#post376499 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376499#post376499 Fri, 06 Oct 2017 06:03:36 +1300 tussock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376497#post376497 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376497#post376497 Uh, just to note, a lot of people's Electorate Votes are more important than their Party Vote, certainly in previous elections, the representation of the Māori Party, Mana Party, United Future, and ACT were dependant on them winning electorate seats for most of their existence.

Few less this time, but…

]]> Fri, 06 Oct 2017 02:24:22 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376495#post376495 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376495#post376495 And/or perhaps these folks;

http://pureadvantage.org/about/

James Shaw posts on their site;

http://pureadvantage.org/news/2017/09/19/vision-plan-net-zero-carbon-economy-2050/

]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 13:27:43 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376494#post376494 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376494#post376494 who these business allies of the Greens are

Nearest organisation I can think of would be the Sustainable Development Council. Here's their pre-election wishlist (1.8MB PDF). Nothing on their website about the Green party though.

]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:50:46 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376493#post376493 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376493#post376493 Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:43:57 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376492#post376492 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376492#post376492 Not sure where you got that quote from but it wasn't me.

It's from the story you provided a link to – third line from the end.

]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:43:18 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376491#post376491 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376491#post376491 who these business allies of the Greens are

Not sure where you got that quote from but it wasn't me.

]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:35:01 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376489#post376489 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376489#post376489 Let's wait til 'business interests' campaign to ax the tax cuts, cut back the RONs, bring on a carbon tax, and put the money into climate change initiatives. Then (maybe – if we accept poverty in a land of plenty as just fine) there could be talks. But I'm betting… ]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:10:38 +1300 stever@cs.waikato.ac.nz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376488#post376488 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376488#post376488 Pressure is now on the Greens from business allies to shift base

I'd be really interested to know who these business allies of the Greens are, and what shifts they want.

And if they are allies of the Greens, why pressure them to go with the Nats and not Labour?

]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 10:59:57 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376487#post376487 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376487#post376487 Fran O’Sullivan confirms business interests have been campaigning post-election for a Nats+Greens ‘teal deal’.

Let's wait til 'business interests' campaign to ax the tax cuts, cut back the RONs, bring on a carbon tax, and put the money into climate change initiatives. Then (maybe – if we accept poverty in…

]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 10:52:53 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376486#post376486 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376486#post376486 business interests have been campaigning

When the societal scales have been tilted in your favour for what seems like at least 3 centuries with very occasional rebalancing. It gets to the point where those who have benefitted think they have a monopoly the way society is organised. But right at…

]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 10:50:33 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376485#post376485 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376485#post376485 been campaigning post-election for a Nats+Greens 'teal deal'. ]]> Thu, 05 Oct 2017 09:22:50 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376484#post376484 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376484#post376484 dirty politics keeps on unwinding

Worth it for the photo caption :-D

]]> Wed, 04 Oct 2017 22:21:12 +1300 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376482#post376482 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376482#post376482 if it were to mean that many people's first election was when they were still in a school environment

got to eliminate the charter schools first then!

]]> Wed, 04 Oct 2017 19:46:02 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376481#post376481 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376481#post376481 Wed, 04 Oct 2017 19:19:54 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376480#post376480 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376480#post376480 dirty politics keeps on unwinding https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/10/04/51558/whaleoil-ex-mp-pr-man-to-face-jury-trial
this is a key moment: good chance the paid character assassination gets a thorough exposure to sunlight.

]]> Wed, 04 Oct 2017 18:38:53 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376479#post376479 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376479#post376479 Wellington high, I believe, Is reasonable about running the school as a democracy. But there are plenty of secondary schools that are are way out of alignment with how our society operates.
not to mention universities. from conception most universities have had democratic impulses – being run by communities of…

]]> Wed, 04 Oct 2017 13:48:55 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376467#post376467 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376467#post376467 Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:56:20 +1300 Mr Mark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376464#post376464 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376464#post376464 2014 New Zealand Election Study
Party or Electorate vote more important ?

Party vote more important 56%
(2011 = 42%) (2005 = 58%)

Equally important 25%
(2011 = 38%) (2005 = 30%)

Electorate vote more important 10%
(2011 = 9%) (2005 = 6%)

Don't know 10%
(2011 = 12%) (2005…

]]> Tue, 03 Oct 2017 15:27:30 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376403#post376403 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376403#post376403 Quite a strong rebuttal! But I would be very interested in any scientific polling of knowledge of MMP.

Certainly not scientific, but over many years I've gained a bit of anecdotal understanding as I teach bachelor degree candidates in both the humanities and the sciences on the history of environmental…

]]> Sun, 01 Oct 2017 20:12:15 +1300 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376402#post376402 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376402#post376402 I really don’t see any evidence more civics education is needed.

Rebuttal: Two minutes reading Stuff comments.

Further rebuttal: two weeks working in a polling booth. My son voted for the first time this year, and had no idea what to do or what the votes were for until I…

]]> Sun, 01 Oct 2017 20:05:29 +1300 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376401#post376401 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376401#post376401 If I'm reading this correctly, does it mean that if people were successfully enrolled at the previous election, and remain at the same address or in the same electorate, they should still be allowed to vote (from the dormant roll) if they show up to a polling booth at the… ]]> Sun, 01 Oct 2017 20:03:45 +1300 Matthew Hooton https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376398#post376398 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376398#post376398 Sun, 01 Oct 2017 19:04:08 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376396#post376396 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376396#post376396 Sun, 01 Oct 2017 18:18:35 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376395#post376395 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376395#post376395 I really don’t see any evidence more civics education is needed.

Rebuttal: Two minutes reading Stuff comments.

]]> Sun, 01 Oct 2017 17:53:52 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376393#post376393 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376393#post376393 I really don’t see any evidence more civics education is needed.
That nice Mr Seymour warned us about that Civics stuff – Orwellian and Marxist indoctrination in disguise apparently!!

]]> Sun, 01 Oct 2017 17:48:28 +1300 Matthew Hooton https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376390#post376390 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376390#post376390 What a load of horse-radish. Why can’t some pundit somewhere say it: 61 seats gives you a government. When you can win or negotiate that, you have moral authority. Less than 61 seats? You have the ‘moral authority’ to be in opposition.
End of.

Pundits say this all the time.…

]]> Sun, 01 Oct 2017 16:36:05 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376370#post376370 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376370#post376370 I see what you mean.

Browsing the Electoral Act I see that section 89D(2)(a) states that the Electoral Commission is required to check with every registered person, that their details are correct, within the 12 months leading into an election. To me that suggests that even if the EasyVote card…

]]> Sat, 30 Sept 2017 16:50:14 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376368#post376368 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376368#post376368 I'm trying to remember now, but doesn't or didn't the Electoral Commission often send out other correspondence anyway leading up to an election? If a returned EasyVote card can cause removal, presumably anything returned-to-sender would cause someone to be removed from the roll.

The EC isn't just getting it's info…

]]> Sat, 30 Sept 2017 16:22:43 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376355#post376355 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376355#post376355 anything returned-to-sender would cause someone to be removed from the roll.Yes, that’s exactly the problem: and the main reason that action is taken seems to be to prevent the EasyVote card being sent to the wrong address and subsequently being used for invalid voting. Which makes the EasyVote card the… ]]> Sat, 30 Sept 2017 02:04:41 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376353#post376353 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376353#post376353 I'm trying to remember now, but doesn't or didn't the Electoral Commission often send out other correspondence anyway leading up to an election? If a returned EasyVote card can cause removal, presumably anything returned-to-sender would cause someone to be removed from the roll.

Prior to the flag referendum, we received…

]]> Fri, 29 Sept 2017 22:44:08 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376321#post376321 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376321#post376321 The EasyVote card sounds more like a bug than a feature.

That's my impression as well, particularly if because of them people are removed from the roll altogether.

]]> Fri, 29 Sept 2017 10:55:52 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376315#post376315 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376315#post376315 I haven't heard of any Aussies complaining about not being able to understand this voting thing.

What's the donkey vote proportion in NZ elections? In Australia it's about 5%.

Here's an article in The Conversation on the topic: Many also felt perplexed by the voting system, to the point of…

]]> Fri, 29 Sept 2017 10:13:45 +1300 Paul Campbell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376282#post376282 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376282#post376282 They could have a database entry to not send out the EasyVote card to the returned enrolment checks.

But leave them enrolled.

Then do a check after the election, that if those missing people voted anyway (which is checked to defend against people casting multiple votes) they stay enrolled, and…

]]> Thu, 28 Sept 2017 18:36:04 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376267#post376267 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376267#post376267 Hello.

No need for a third vote. That's essentially STV.

Not if I've understood (not sure). Australia's STV is applied to elect a bundle of candidates and lets a vote be distributed between several of them (depending on how much it was needed). I'm just meaning is a simpler thing…

]]> Thu, 28 Sept 2017 16:19:12 +1300 tussock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376266#post376266 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376266#post376266 They could have a database entry to not send out the EasyVote card to the returned enrolment checks.

But leave them enrolled.

Then do a check after the election, that if those missing people voted anyway (which is checked to defend against people casting multiple votes) they stay enrolled, and…

]]> Thu, 28 Sept 2017 16:00:37 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376256#post376256 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376256#post376256 We're from the Government, we'd like to help...*
Perhaps henceforth all new born citizens are issued with an IRD number, a cellphone number and an IP address – for life.
Looks like retinal or facial recognition security systems may go over well
Tattooing or chipping may be a step too…

]]> Thu, 28 Sept 2017 11:55:25 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376254#post376254 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376254#post376254 The EasyVote card sounds more like a bug than a feature.
(And I've still never received one. I hope that just means they're not sent to overseas addresses at all.)

]]> Thu, 28 Sept 2017 11:47:46 +1300 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376249#post376249 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376249#post376249 Seems a very bad idea to just automatically unenrol folks where those forms are marked 'Return to Sender' – why not wait to see if they turn up to vote and then initiate a change of address?.

Well, at the moment, if you don't, then you send their EasyVote cards…

]]> Thu, 28 Sept 2017 11:23:38 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376240#post376240 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376240#post376240 That's a good idea.

It does seem like a simple way to help people vote.

Just need someone like Edgeler to test it for bugs – it seems too simple a solution.

]]> Thu, 28 Sept 2017 09:39:26 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376220#post376220 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376220#post376220 Sadly, I think so and you are right about that being the dominant narrative in the US.

Keith Boykin of Columbia University (& occasional CNN commentator) certainly thinks so, in this Twitter thread on the subject:

__- No Democrat has won the majority of the white vote since 1964, when Lyndon…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 20:26:16 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376219#post376219 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376219#post376219 We had quite a few voters furious to find that, since the last time they’d voted, they’d been disenrolled. In most cases, this would be because they moved, didn’t update their address, their first ‘check your details are correct’ pack went to their old address, and was returned to sender.… ]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 19:47:47 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376218#post376218 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376218#post376218 Wed, 27 Sept 2017 19:40:21 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376217#post376217 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376217#post376217 Is welfare in NZ only as controversial as it is because of racial undercurrents?

Sadly, I think so and you are right about that being the dominant narrative in the US.

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 19:35:38 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376213#post376213 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376213#post376213 And regarding the point about how much racism is embedded in people's attitudes towards welfare recipients, I'd say it's a pretty damn big chunk. And another chunk is simple classism – growing up poor and Pakeha 30 odd years ago (before the worst of the welfare "reforms") certainly demonstrated that… ]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 18:55:59 +1300 TracyMac https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376207#post376207 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376207#post376207 Wed, 27 Sept 2017 16:36:31 +1300 TracyMac https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376206#post376206 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376206#post376206 Wed, 27 Sept 2017 16:32:14 +1300 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376204#post376204 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376204#post376204 So how do people of no fixed abode get enrolled to vote? And do overseas citizens have an electorate to vote in if they don’t have a current address here in New Zealand?

You can enrol with the residential address where you last lived for (off the top of my…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 15:06:48 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376203#post376203 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376203#post376203 So how do people of no fixed abode get enrolled to vote? And do overseas citizens have an electorate to vote in if they don’t have a current address here in New Zealand?

Bearing in mind this is just an idea and might be horribly flawed ...

I don't see…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 14:51:01 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376202#post376202 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376202#post376202 Wed, 27 Sept 2017 14:35:16 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376200#post376200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376200#post376200 And you know where they live how?

(I support everything else mentioned there, but not this.)

What if you didn't need to vote for an electorate – then where you lived would not really matter at all?

Sure if you WANT to vote for an electorate you could enroll for…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 13:53:40 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376199#post376199 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376199#post376199 Wed, 27 Sept 2017 13:35:29 +1300 Dennis Frank https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376198#post376198 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376198#post376198 Time to reduce MMP threshold to 2% and make broad (2-5 party) coalitions the norm.

Then, the required skills for politicians would be: collaboration, communication, relationship-building, authenticity and longer, more enduring political cooperation

Yep, I've been thinking likewise. A design that provides an incentive structure to extend consensus on common…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 12:25:18 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376197#post376197 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376197#post376197 Auto-enrol high school & university students upon turning 18

Just randomly on enrolment, is there any evidence or investigation out there of whether there's a significant effect of the jury service system on enrolment figures?

It seems odd to me that people who try to skip the potential stress and often…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 11:55:21 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376196#post376196 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376196#post376196 What I think is going on here is the bedding in of a kind of pop Social Darwinism, which blames the victims of neoliberalism for their own demise and, conversely, regards the trappings of material success earned through market activity as signs of spiritual election and moral authority. And of… ]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 11:40:23 +1300 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376195#post376195 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376195#post376195 - Auto-enrol high school & university students upon turning 18

On the published, public roll?

And you know where they live how?

(I support everything else mentioned there, but not this.)

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 11:33:59 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376194#post376194 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376194#post376194 Eagleson is a Key-era/aligned henchman with much baggage that may potentially become a liability in the weeks ahead.

He will move on with a generous payout.

And likely move into a warm boardroom seat.

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 11:32:53 +1300 pohutukawa tree https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376193#post376193 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376193#post376193 Eagleson is a Key-era/aligned henchman with much baggage that may potentially become a liability in the weeks ahead.

He will move on with a generous payout.

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 10:57:42 +1300 pohutukawa tree https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376192#post376192 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376192#post376192 Time to reduce MMP threshold to 2% and make broad (2-5 party) coalitions the norm.

Then, the required skills for politicians would be: collaboration, communication, relationship-building, authenticity and longer, more enduring political cooperation that outlives individuals.

Politicians without these skills would slowly disappear to be replaced by those who embrace…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 10:39:56 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376191#post376191 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376191#post376191 Omerta rules...
I note that the National Family's consigliere Wayne Eagleson is abandoning ship
– is it because Bill ain't 'mongrel' enough or because Eagleson can see the writing on the wall?
Or is he taking one for the team, to smooth the way for desperate National / NZ First…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 09:25:01 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376189#post376189 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376189#post376189 FPP was the most popular replacement but it's worth noting that huge numbers of people who voted on part A explicitly chose not to vote on part B. http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/referendum.html

At the time there was controversy over the whole structure of the referendum.

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 04:56:43 +1300 Mr Mark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376188#post376188 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376188#post376188 "Considering National got fairly close to what it did in 2014 and certainly more than it did in 2008, I'm not sure the "National led government lost". The Nat's constituency seems to be fairly steady in their support"

Nats down 2.1 points (2014 Election Night vs 2017 Election Night)

Right…

]]> Wed, 27 Sept 2017 00:43:58 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376187#post376187 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376187#post376187 What I think is going on here is the bedding in of a kind of pop Social Darwinism, which blames the victims of neoliberalism for their own demise and, conversely, regards the trappings of material success earned through market activity as signs of spiritual election and moral authority.

Jane Bowron,…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 23:02:01 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376186#post376186 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376186#post376186 However this time around National instantly dropped ACT before negotiations even began. That doesn't seem a way to build up a long-term relationship with a potential coalition partner.

They know ACT will be there for them in the future. They're so supine they can plank while standing up.

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 22:18:23 +1300 Caleb D'Anvers https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376185#post376185 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376185#post376185 Reward the strong, punish the weak
I’d agree that that there’s a strong (growing?) appetite for this in a lot of Anglosphere nations, though I think support for the monarchy is a bit of a red herring in this context. The British monarchy have been largely powerless ceremonial figureheads since…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 22:03:16 +1300 Thomas Lumley https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376182#post376182 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376182#post376182 One of the important benefits of proportional representation is precisely that splitting or combining of parties doesn't make much difference, so the whole concept of 'largest party' is about purely arbitrary boundaries.

Largest coalition matters, and obviously there's more negotiation overhead in putting together a coalition with more parties, but…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 19:42:17 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376180#post376180 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376180#post376180 {some think} Labour should be the only-party of the Left

I'm kinda happy with that, because I see the more important split as being between the brown parties and the green ones. So The Greens and to some extent TOP are greenish, and Labour are less brown than National. But…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 19:10:09 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376179#post376179 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376179#post376179 long-term relationship

Politics today is not really about long-term friendships except with donors. Possibly more accurate to say that National don't have principles in that sense, they are the embodiment of neoliberal philosophy. What's in it for them, right now, the end.

Labour have long-term enmities with both The Greens…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 18:32:03 +1300 Simon Lyall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376178#post376178 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376178#post376178 An example of FPP mentality I saw was Labour voters attacking the Greens for splitting the left-wing vote and allowing National to win some electorates.

Of course there are a group of Labour supporters who don't really recognise the right of the Greens to exist and think Labour should be…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 18:22:59 +1300 Simon Lyall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376177#post376177 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376177#post376177 I thought it was interesting that in 2014 National included 3 minor parties ( with 4 seats) in it's coalition when just one or two would have been enough.

However this time around National instantly dropped ACT before negotiations even began. That doesn't seem a way to build up a…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 18:17:04 +1300 Lindsey Rea https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376175#post376175 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376175#post376175 Tue, 26 Sept 2017 17:45:54 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376174#post376174 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376174#post376174 If Jacinda & James take the Treasury benches, expect to see a post-Muldoon constitutional crisis, and some well-resourced smear machines cranking up.

Long-term, NZ needs to do the following:
– Boost high school civics education
– Auto-enrol high school & university students upon turning 18
– Rebuild trust in the political system…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 17:34:30 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376173#post376173 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376173#post376173 Peters has expressed some of the most toxic views

... in Aotearoa. You really don't want to be reading Australian political media right now. My take is: any time you have actual Nazi's supporting your views you need to be cautious about employing slippery slope arguments. I mean, obviously those…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 17:28:22 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376172#post376172 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376172#post376172 In a few weeks one of the parties will expressing more honest sentiments.

I know it's a necessary part of the game but Peters has expressed some of the most toxic views. And perhaps he just says them for effect but that's even worse.

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 17:15:27 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376171#post376171 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376171#post376171 But I'd suggest the media grow a spine

I did say slightly fair.

Frankly I think our media has been hugely responsible for maintaining this FPP mentality. They like having a simple story to tell because they can tell it in the 25 seconds between ad breaks.

It's been left…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 17:11:14 +1300 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376169#post376169 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376169#post376169 I didn't realise how many senior National and Labour MPs trust and respect Peters. They could have at least told us before the election.

Yep. This would have been such a great opportunity for Labour to say "well, we have this agreed deal with The Greens so I guess anything…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 17:07:05 +1300 Regan Cunliffe https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376168#post376168 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376168#post376168 Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:56:43 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376167#post376167 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376167#post376167 I thought Radio NZ's televised coverage was just fine, I dipped into 1 & 3's posses of the usual suspects and left in dismay.

Serious public education about the mechanics and thinking behind MMP needs to be done before the next election – I guess getting RNZ or Parliamentary TV to…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:46:17 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376166#post376166 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376166#post376166 To be slightly fair to the MSM Labour and National refuse to share the stage with the "minor parties".

Pardon my French, but so fucking what? I still think debates are moronic media kabuki – and throwing more actors on the stage doesn't make the show any more tolerable. But…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:45:57 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376165#post376165 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376165#post376165 He's a great statesman, you know.

and such tasty boots.

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:43:49 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376163#post376163 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376163#post376163 I didn’t realise how many senior National and Labour MPs trust and respect Peters. They could have at least told us before the election.That loud sucking noise must be the vacuum that message got lost in :-) ]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:27:20 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376162#post376162 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376162#post376162 I didn't realise how many senior National and Labour MPs trust and respect Peters. They could have at least told us before the election.

Heh. He's a great statesman, you know.

In 2008 NZF got over 4% of the vote, and if they'd made it to 5% the National Party…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:18:22 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376161#post376161 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376161#post376161 Every minor party that has taken portfolios has lost votes. It's all part of our unchanged two-party mentality, within a multi-party system. You'd probably need a psychologist more than a political commentator to help explain it. Reward the strong, punish the weak.

I'd link it to our continuing deference to…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:16:00 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376160#post376160 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376160#post376160 Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:08:34 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376158#post376158 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376158#post376158 small parties tend to come out worse off when linked to larger partiesWe’ve already gone through some of the larger-party behaviours contributing to that. National offer some cabinet positions, but generally don’t concede policy that they weren’t going to support anyway (and if it’s popular, they grab all the credit,… ]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 16:00:16 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376157#post376157 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376157#post376157 We've had MMP for twenty years now.

Of course this is true, and Joshua's argument is sound. I've been pulling my hair out, and on Saturday night I had to switch off the talking telly heads before inserting foot in screen.

But "twenty years" covers 7 previous elections, and of…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 15:51:51 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376154#post376154 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376154#post376154 I think no one has lost the election til Peters lets us know what he decided – and that was probably some months ago.

I disagree National threw any parties under the bus – it's more small parties tend to come out worse off when linked to larger parties. There…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 15:16:51 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376153#post376153 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376153#post376153 To be slightly fair to the MSM Labour and National refuse to share the stage with the "minor parties".

If Labour believes in MMP they should flat out refuse to ever do a two party debate again.

But in the main you are bang on – the NZ media have…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 15:01:15 +1300 Euan Mason https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376152#post376152 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376152#post376152 I also wholly agree with your point about debates, get 'em all in the room together.

And bar the door before that twit Hosking shows up.

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 15:00:11 +1300 David Cormack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376149#post376149 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376149#post376149 try to argue that that was bollocks and that whomever had 61 votes in parliament was the government, but you don't get a lot of time to do so.… ]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 14:45:35 +1300 Zach Bagnall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376148#post376148 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376148#post376148 Tue, 26 Sept 2017 14:34:06 +1300 Zach Bagnall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376147#post376147 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376147#post376147 So what happened to the recommendations from the 2012 Review of MMP. As I recall nothing was changed even there were at least 6 recommendations that would have helped a fairer system.

Oh that old thing: http://www.elections.org.nz/events/past-events-0/2012-mmp-review/results-mmp-review

A bit like Trump's attitude to Obamacare – can't get rid of it…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 14:32:06 +1300 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376145#post376145 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376145#post376145 Without endorsing your title, I'm gonna hard-out agree about this supposed, projected, fantasy 'moral authority' BS. O, the NZ public won't accept – ballocks.
You're the government if you have 61 votes in parliament. We should be able to agree on that, surely?
If you win 61 or more seats,…

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 14:19:58 +1300 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376142#post376142 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376142#post376142 Tue, 26 Sept 2017 13:27:52 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376141#post376141 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-government-lost-the-election/?p=376141#post376141 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Tue, 26 Sept 2017 13:27:52 +1300