The passive resistance thing is unbeatable.

I hear he had Parihaka to thank for that idea.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Einstein was crap at housework and suchlike.

Schrödinger, perhaps not so great at keeping pets..

Unless someone wants to argue Einstein was weak.

I'm pretty sure I could have taken him.

What about Schrödinger, then? It'd be pretty hard to land a punch, I reckon, what with that whole 'there and yet not there' thing he had going on.

LOL. Who would you pick in Einstein vs Gandhi though?

Ah, so I'll post that video for Alien after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK716RqoUms

I'm pretty sure I could have taken him.

LOL. Who would you pick in Einstein vs Gandhi though?

Ben made flippancy inappropriate. It is a skill he seems to have perfected. Were I wearing a hat, I would be taking it off right about now. This is the debate. Not some headline seeking ignorance as witnessed elsewhere.

Quite. Autism suggests the broader fear is of difference, not really weakness as such. Unless someone wants to argue Einstein was weak.

I think people still have trouble not simply putting it in the same basket as other mental disabilities.

I believe my aunt was sterilized early on. She is…

And that someone sat down and drew this picture makes me embarrassed to be part of the same species.

That picture is more of a dire dier-gram...

(whoops, I'd posted this on the wrong thread
a suitable case for treatment obviously)

Eugenics never recovered from the news of what had been carried out under its banner in Hitler's Germany. In truth, a number of people--including G.K. Chesterton, H.L. Mencken, Walter Lippmann and Clarence Darrow--had ridiculed and debunked eugenic theories well before the horrors of the…

Unless someone wants to argue Einstein was weak.

well theoretically more of a WIMP

Unless someone wants to argue Einstein was weak.

I'm pretty sure I could have taken him.

having natural advantage can make a lot of people lazy and weak.

Yeah, comprehensive social reform is just so messy, and expensive. Best way to solve that problem is make 'them' cease to exist. Easy! Yeah, easy.

Anyone who writes sentences starting with 'these people' while discussing eugenics should include…

Eugenics fears weakness and death so much that it limits true potential

That is a great summary of what's wrong with current practice and thinking about disability. People have always had a mix of strengths and weaknesses, but some of our collective prejudices about function and contribution are downright mediaeval.…

I was going to bring up Michael Lhaws, I swear I was.

Serves you right for swallowing him in the first place. Tastes bad going both down and back up.

Watched Gattaca for the first time tonight and thought it dealt with eugenics in a very entertaining and inspiring way. Quite a good watch.

Indeed. Eugenics fears weakness and death so much that it limits true potential. Nice idea, does tally with my experience – having natural advantage can make…

I suppose you saw Redbaiter's response to Garrett clarifying "no compulsion" in the Kiwiblog thread?

You suppose incorrectly. What's a Kiwiblog?

"By Laws’ logic, John Banks should never have been born…"

"Paula Bennett would have been sterilised – whatever you think of her politics, it seems a little harsh."

At the end of the day, those who mention sterilisation as a…

Am I looking forward to the inevitable Your Views on Garrett's sterilisation plan.

Wherein the general consensus will be that the plan's only fault is that it isn't mandatory. I suppose you saw Redbaiter's response to Garrett clarifying "no compulsion" in the Kiwiblog thread?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTQ0MTA2NTY0.html

Black Triangles, Red Triangles, Green Triangles, Pink Triangles, anybody? Diana Wichtel again has some sage advice, particularly being of Jewish descent.

And, right on cue: A Kiwiblog guest post musing on incentivised sterilisation for the morally unfit, received with some enthusiasm by Act's David Garrett.

I was going to bring up Michael Lhaws, I swear I was. Oh well.

It's a strange thread when even Chuck Bird winds up looking relatively reasonable.

Regarding the Fabian Society: as much as I love the idea of totally unrestrained progressive debate, it'd be good to get some kind of initial statement of where…

Didn't he mutate into Carlton Crisp after eating too much snack food?

Bloody socialist. Always thought he had a chip on his shoulder.

What ever happened to Fabian Fanboy?

Didn't he mutate into Carlton Crisp after eating too much snack food?

So, he never advocated eugenics or changed his mind about it? Keir, if you're going to call me a liar and/or an idiot please do be arsed to make your case before doing so.

No, I am saying he was never enthusiastic about eugenics; I am also saying he was…

Further, he wasn't consistent on this either; he changed his mind and if I could be arsed looking it up I could give you chapter and verse.

So, he never advocated eugenics or changed his mind about it? Keir, if you're going to call me a liar and/or an idiot…

Further, he wasn't consistent on this…

Well, David, if I was offering PR advice to neo-Fabians I'd suggest their brand is somewhat tainted by the enthusiasm of the likes of Shaw, the Webbs, Marie Stopes and Wells for eugenics. Would love a pointer a pointer to anywhere Brash has done the same.

We had a strain…

Don Brash was probably referring to these Fabian ideals, as expressed by Shaw

Well, David, if I was offering PR advice to neo-Fabians I'd suggest their brand is somewhat tainted by the enthusiasm of the likes of Shaw, the Webbs, Marie Stopes and Wells for eugenics. Would love a pointer…

Unfortunatly the link for the NZ Fabian Society doesn't work for me

Hmm. Goes fine here.

How about Mike Smith giving us an outline of exactly what they stand for before we start discussing the subject

I was rather hoping that would happen as a matter of course. I'll suggest…

We coulda been talking think cisterns. Some of them are more like cisterns really though aren't they.

I'd say most, but it's still good to have your own cisterns full of your own shit. A bit like intelligence agencies – creepy, scary, nasty things that they are, but if the…

I think that 'think tank' relates more to a container, not an armoured vehicle.

That's just what they wanted us to think.

__... the term was first used in a secret report on the new motorised weapon presented to Winston Churchill, then First Lord of the Admiralty, by British Army…

Noting that Virginia Woolf was also a member, can I ask if a room of one's own and 500 a year is still a policy plank? Cos that would be…

of course there are ways of
stopping a tank in its tracks

and at least the Russians have stopped
abandoning them in forests

but Think Tanks are also great for the storage of the gas generated! Hell you can even farm them

not to be confused with…

I think that 'think tank' relates more to a container, not an armoured vehicle.

That's just what they wanted us to think. More than meets the eye...

A progressive think tank? It's almost a triple oxymoron, considering what tanks typically do, blindly rushing in, dealing out moderate slaughter, and keeping everyone off the real damage dealers and the supply lines.

I think that 'think tank' relates more to a container, not an armoured vehicle.

But it is curiously perhaps the purpose of the right wing ones, so I agree, such a…

it's all about Fabio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7w4dpxgSWA

On a frivolous note, be prepared for people who think it's all about Fabio.

What, is not?

Here's some advice for the Society: remember that Family First and the Sensible Sentencing Trust are in the news all the time because:
– they have just one well-branded self-promoting spokesperson
– that person is always available for comment
– judging by Scoop,…

There certainly is! A revolutionary vanguard that smashes the state and imposes a dictatorship of the proletariat! Who's with me comrades?

Alternatively, we could run society through a "federated, decentralized system of free associations, incorporating economic as well as other social institutions"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

Don Brash described himself as being motivated by Fabian ideals in one of his Rotary speeches.

Must've been this one – Tax all of me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kM_zE7KITo

"You must all know half a dozen people at least who are no use in this world, who are more trouble than they are worth. Just put them there and say…

There certainly is! A revolutionary vanguard that smashes the state and imposes a dictatorship of the proletariat! Who's with me comrades?

Stalinism: Success The Only Option...

The theme of the first seminar series will be around the theme of building a resilient economy – fit for 21st century scenarios, resistant to shocks, ecologically adaptable and responsive.

Stop making sense!
We need to be borrowing that $250 million a week (or whatever) to stay playing dice at…

is it me or the title implies that there is an alternative to Fabianism?

There certainly is! A revolutionary vanguard that smashes the state and imposes a dictatorship of the proletariat! Who's with me comrades?

I note that the Fabians have a long and distinguished history

Of all intellectual, they also claim one of the longer-lasting.

Would anybody agree with that?

Yes, with the caveat that people now expect all the nice social democratic safety net and public service without the corresponding levels of taxation. That particular discussion needs to be had ahead of pretty much anything else, IMO. Until we've decided which of the two…

Gio, yes, it is a very ambiguous title.

Well it's too late to change it.

Sticking to the topic, as it were, it's about bloody time. So much of the "debate" (for want of a better word, though it's pretty misleading) is, as Mike says, framed entirely in terms of "more of the same". Clearly "the same"…