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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: The End of Consumerism</title>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>Bart Janssen</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=123760#post123760</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=123760#post123760</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>throttling of creativity by the deadweight make-believe managerialism</p></blockquote><p>I love this line. If I can be forgiven for ranting a little...</p><p>I work in one of New Zealand's research institutes and have done for nearly 20 years. When I started the place was full of scientists and technicians working hard…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:40:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Blake Monkley</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=122149#post122149</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=122149#post122149</guid>
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						<a href="http://www.usdebtclock.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">USA looking good?</a>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:54:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Andrew Stevenson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121861#post121861</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121861#post121861</guid>
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						<p>Just been re-reading E.F. Schumacher's Small is Beautiful, subtitled <em>Economics as if people mattered</em>.<br />This was written in 1975, but still seems relevant</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:04:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>tussock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121857#post121857</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121857#post121857</guid>
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						<p>Always something else to consider: cheap oil, and how it no longer exists. How do we get the 50's back again when their production was driven on fuel costing a small fraction of what it now does, and forever more will?</p><p>And yes, those grand scams that payed all the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:11:05 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ross Mason</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121851#post121851</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121851#post121851</guid>
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						It surprises me that the world has allowed the iincredible nanosecond response of capital shifting from and to anywhere in the world to 1) develop and 2) to keep on keeping on. It seems all for the sole pupose of betting on making a fast (ultra!) buck. It is easy…
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				<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:37:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Blake Monkley</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121781#post121781</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121781#post121781</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>I should also note that I am driven nuts by people of The Left who can't see the virtue of markets at all. People at both extremes seem to find it hard to grasp that conflicting ideas might be worth their attention.</p></blockquote><p>The challenge is to devise a new financial…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:48:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121778#post121778</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121778#post121778</guid>
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						<blockquote> I have yet to find libertarian concepts useful or popular beyond the privileged, but who knows.</blockquote>Yeah, 'cause libertarians claim to champion freedom and then go all Lily Alan on yer ass.
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:36:00 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121776#post121776</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121776#post121776</guid>
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						<p>I particularly liked  this comment,</p><blockquote><p>The moral of Rand books should be, appreciate intelligent people because that's what keeps this country going. Not going all John Galt because humanity hasn't built you a gold statue and given you a pony.</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:30:06 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121775#post121775</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121775#post121775</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>I should also note that I am driven nuts by people of The Left who can't see the virtue of markets at all. People at both extremes seem to find it hard to grasp that conflicting ideas might be worth their attention.</p></blockquote><p>Agree, Russell. Totally frustrates me when people supposedly…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:23:41 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121773#post121773</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121773#post121773</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>In my informal studies of economic theories I have, more often than not, been stuck by the notion that what we are dealing with is more of an ideology than something actually related to the real world, more of a religion than a science.</p></blockquote><p>The New Yorker had [[http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2009/04/13/090413ta_talk_widdicombe|a lovely…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:56:03 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121771#post121771</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121771#post121771</guid>
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						<p>From the article linked to above.</p><blockquote><p>With its utter failure to see this crisis coming, why does anyone still take the OECD seriously? Probably for the same reason that people still generally obeyed the Captain of the Titanic after it had struck the iceberg: authority counts for a lot in…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:11:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Blake Monkley</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121753#post121753</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121753#post121753</guid>
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						If any recovery is to be lasting, USA and China will have to rebalance their trading relationship. China runs a huge surplus with the USA, USA sends money to China, China recycles those dollars into USA treasury bills, thereby keeping interest rates low which encourages debt and consumption. Consumers might…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:37:56 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>K J Aldous</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121747#post121747</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121747#post121747</guid>
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						<p><strong>Russell Brown</strong> wrote:</p><blockquote><p>Woah, Ken: you're in danger of tilting into nihilism here.</p><p>The British Parliamentary expenses system, established in good faith, turns out to have been unacceptably abused by many MPs. That abuse reeks of entitlement. But many other MPs have not behaved in this way &mdash; some of…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:29:55 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121721#post121721</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121721#post121721</guid>
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						Ah OK. No I do get a PTS every year, so I'm probably even.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:55:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121720#post121720</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121720#post121720</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Not only do I not get a return now, I don't get anything from my bank or employers as far as I'm aware.</p><p>Am I being screwed through inactivity?</p></blockquote><p>Why do you think there's a huge business scamming people to do the meagre work involved in claiming back over-paid tax?…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:47:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Robertson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121647#post121647</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121647#post121647</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>What we now may be seeing, as the purchasing power of the majority fades, is the decline of consumerism and a change in the form of society.</p></blockquote><p>Has the purchasing power of the majority actually faded?  Adding together the poverty reduction that has occured in China, India, Brazil and other…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:03:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121645#post121645</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121645#post121645</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Somalia, anybody?</p></blockquote><p>Funny you should mention Somalia. I heard a Rand devotee* interviewed on Australian radio in the mid-90s. Raising the role, or lack thereof, of altruism in Rand's world view, the interviewer asked what she'd have done for the poverty-stricken locals if she'd found herself in contemporary Somalia. The…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:02:17 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121638#post121638</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121638#post121638</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Part of ensuring a Randian Nirvana is to convince people the government and democratic institutions are part the problem, not part the solution.</p></blockquote><p>Somalia, anybody? No government or red tape to speak of, which is all well and good. Until the local warlord starts demanding his cut, of course. And…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:50:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Robertson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121625#post121625</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121625#post121625</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>And while the teabagging tendency drives further and further into its frenzy, the research says the people largely aren't going along with it.</p></blockquote><p>Well its an astroturf isn't it?  It'll arc along like the Anti-War brigades of the last lot, providing a backing focus for general discontent and picking up…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:13:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Shay Lambert</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121621#post121621</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121621#post121621</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>self-evident superiority of liberal democracy...once people start questioning it, democracy can fall.</p></blockquote><p>Yet they seem to keep coming back to it...</p><p>After the multiple experiments that rose in its place throughout the 20th century, we now know that liberal democracy &ndash; even if we can never quite get it completely…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:02:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Tom Semmens</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121612#post121612</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121612#post121612</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Can you both rage against the plutocratic pilfering elite and against the attack on democracy implicit in revealing the pilfering to the long-suffering public?</p></blockquote><p>Part of ensuring a Randian Nirvana is to convince people the government and democratic institutions are part the problem, not part the solution. </p><p>One thing I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:37:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121589#post121589</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121589#post121589</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>And yet the response in the US as they hurtled towards the cliff edge was to vote in some relatively unknown black dude who appealed to their better natures.</p></blockquote><p>And while the teabagging tendency drives further and further into its frenzy, the research says the people largely aren't going along…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:42:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Shay Lambert</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121579#post121579</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121579#post121579</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>inertia that can often set in.</p></blockquote><p>One of the great benefits of this current system is the bureaucratic  inertia that prevents rapid, revolutionary change &ndash; which never seems to work as well as the revolutionaries said it would.</p><p>So let us celebrate the faceless bureaucrat, for his/her risk averse unproductiveness…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:32:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121575#post121575</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121575#post121575</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Don't knock 'em &ndash; lots of people are employed by Kafkaesque bureaucracies. Their work maybe pointless and contribute nothing to society, but no more so than most jobs if you look at them from a high enough perspective.</p></blockquote><p>It's the inertia and risk-averseness you might get in any large, established…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:15:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Shay Lambert</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121571#post121571</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121571#post121571</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>It will be a new political order of demagogues blending loathing of the globalised capitalist elite, discredited traditional deomcratic vehicles and an anti-crime, anti-immigration authoritarianism into a single populist ring wing program.</p></blockquote><p>And yet the response in the US as they hurtled towards the cliff edge was to vote in…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:00:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121569#post121569</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121569#post121569</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>harnessing public resentment against elites gets you some strange places: look at the incoherent Tea Party movement in the US.</p></blockquote><p>Incoherent is the word, and an incoherent opposition is just what the "pilfering plutocratic elites" cultivate, insofar as they have a plan.  Marx would have no trouble analysing the tea…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:56:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>giovanni tiso</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121568#post121568</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121568#post121568</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Like, being an actual Nazi</p></blockquote><p>Funny that the article shouldn't mention the book that he wrote and self-published, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The International Jew</a>.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:53:25 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121567#post121567</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121567#post121567</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>The moral of the story? If you have two or more jobs, do your tax return!</p></blockquote><p>Previously when everyone had to do tax returns, I used to get one in the mail. Along with all the material from my employers and bank required to do it. Not only do I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:53:15 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121565#post121565</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121565#post121565</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>The moral of the story? If you have two or more jobs, do your tax return!</p></blockquote><p>I have had five employers in the last year, and having just received a tidy refund I can only agree with this.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:49:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121564#post121564</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121564#post121564</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>You still pay more tax if you have more than one job.</p></blockquote><p>That's not quite right.  You pay more PAYE (i.e. deductions from your wages as you go), but at the end of the year when you do your tax return, you should get a refund.  Someone who earns say,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:43:06 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121561#post121561</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121561#post121561</guid>
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						<p>Suffering dissonance now. Can you both rage against the plutocratic pilfering elite <em>and</em> against the attack on democracy implicit in revealing the pilfering to the long-suffering public?</p><p>But yes, as a general point, harnessing public resentment against elites gets you some strange places: look at the incoherent Tea Party movement…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:38:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Tom Semmens</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121543#post121543</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121543#post121543</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Woah, Ken: you're in danger of tilting into nihilism here.</p></blockquote><p>I am not so sure. The fact that the attack on the credibility of the democratic institutions is being led by a flagship newspaper of the very oligarchs that Ken says are incapable of reform surely reinforces his argument, more…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:39:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Angus Robertson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121538#post121538</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121538#post121538</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>...but in your opening paragraph you point out one of the very best ways to distribute wealth more fairly in a capitalist economy: high minimum wages.</p></blockquote><p>We have a global economy nowadays where the effective minimum wage is $2 per day, so we could increase that to say $5 a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:23:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121537#post121537</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121537#post121537</guid>
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						<blockquote>If the United States economy, and by implication the global economy, more or less recover, as well they may, the cycle will repeat, since the elite will not forgo any part of what they regard as their due without an enormous fuss. The recent and continuing spectacle of British parliamentarians…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:15:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Tom Semmens</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121536#post121536</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121536#post121536</guid>
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						<p>The only thing saving capitalism from revolutionary forment is the total discrediting of Marxism as a credible alternative. </p><p>At the moment western working and middle class populations have lapsed into political lassitude, helplessly suffering from an economic version of battered wife syndrome.</p><p>Since communism is discredited and the elites increasingly…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:03:46 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kerry Weston</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121533#post121533</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121533#post121533</guid>
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						Bravo! Excellent post. Considering our own median income is around $25,000, I laugh when i hear Dr Bollard pleading again for us to save money, not spend it. What used to be called the working class top up their mortgages (if they're lucky enough to have one) and credit cards…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:42:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Christiaan</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121532#post121532</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121532#post121532</guid>
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						<p>"and the absence of any means for a fairer distribution of wealth"</p><p>Personally I'd prefer to have a go at a different economy (parecon) but in your opening paragraph you point out one of the very best ways to distribute wealth more fairly in a capitalist economy: high minimum wages.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:11:14 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121530#post121530</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121530#post121530</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>he entertained some profoundly politically incorrect opinions</p></blockquote><p>Like, <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">being an actual Nazi</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:24:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121529#post121529</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-the-end-of-consumerism/?p=121529#post121529</guid>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:24:59 +1200</pubDate>
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