Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: The act of not eating doesn't save children

andin

Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:02:12 +1300

I think that’s fairly obvious.

Dick

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 30 Sep 2013 08:53:39 +1300

In front of them hoping it will help? what?

I think that's fairly obvious.

Yeah I saw that and I guess I’m so jaded that I read it as “we’ll pay a consultant to write a report and carry on as before” rather than as a commitment to make certain…

andin

Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:37:45 +1300

the underlying concepts of asceticism.
No its not asceticism Lent is about penitence and is modelled on the forty day fast when apparently jesus saw god. And Ramadan is deeply misogynistic.

Martin Lindberg

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:22:05 +1200

Ramadan is where you eat a huge breakfast....

Of course those are all the literal manifestations of Lent and Ramadan, but that would ignore the underlying concepts of asceticism.

Nicola Rowe

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:44:51 +1200

(Kiva) Most admirable!

tussock

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:32:30 +1200

Ramadan is where you eat a huge breakfast and huge dinner so you can skip lunch, because everyone's skipping lunch (or a few people anyway, there's a lot of exemptions). The community spirit there is where you gather to celebrate eating big, together. It's like thanksgiving every night for a…

Martin Lindberg

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:48:23 +1200

What about Lent and Ramadan? They have both been around slightly longer than the 40 hour famine.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:54:52 +1200

what more should they be doing?

Yeah I saw that and I guess I'm so jaded that I read it as "we'll pay a consultant to write a report and carry on as before" rather than as a commitment to make certain they aren't doing harm. That is unfortunately the…

andin

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:50:05 +1200

But we don’t so do-gooders try and pick up the slack.
Its those in power whose minds need rebooting and fast. Yet we all just seem to put it in the too hard basket and suddenly a decade or two wanders by.
And its OK to turn the education of…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:38:33 +1200

It wasn’t clear to me from the response of the campaign spokesperson who posted here that they would be doing that.

They did say:

As we move into next year we will undertake to consult with organisations that understand eating disorders to get their advice on how we might further…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:28:27 +1200

Finding the best and least problematic ways to make good things happen.

For what it's worth I may have come across as harsh in my response and I shouldn't have. I accept that the intent is good and also am fully aware of the issue that is trying to…

Michael Savidge

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:28:10 +1200

Who’s watching from the sidelines?

Many, many, many people.

I wasn't accusing you directly Lilith and I apologise if that was how I came across. I know the PA community is full of really good people, but it is a small sub-section of society and is certainly not representative of…

Lilith __

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:28:13 +1200

FWIW I support Kiva , which provides microloans to households and small businesses in the developing world. You can select where the money goes, and keep your money going round, from one project to another, as it's paid back.

Lilith __

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:15:46 +1200

I guess my point was that while critiquing the methods organisations use to try and alleviate suffering is all well and good and important, the scale of the actual suffering is so horrific and entirely solvable if only it was deemed of higher priority than nit-picking the tactics that some…

Michael Savidge

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 12:21:03 +1200

You’re not making a great case for tolerance here!

I wasn't really trying to but I see your point and apologise for getting a bit ranty. I guess my point was that while critiquing the methods organisations use to try and alleviate suffering is all well and good and important,…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:39:42 +1200

It seems we would rather bury ourselves in idiot campaigns to win pieces of silver in which money will always win.

Maybe it's not a great solution, but no need to be a dick about people committing to what's in front of them hoping it will help.

Hebe

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:59:33 +1200

Exactly. It gets very wearing, so I guess that's why people who work in the area have to look for the positives else they burn out. That can seem like rose-tinted glasses to everyone else, but it is not necessarily an inability to see the problems.

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:48:21 +1200

I was able to see first-hand accounts of what a few bucks in our terms meant to the people.

I don't dispute this, but isn't it a modern version of "the poor are always with us"? A trifling contribution that we barely notice saves someone's life? The inequalities that make…

Hebe

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:46:45 +1200

You’re not making a great case for tolerance here! PAS is all about disagreeing in a non-disagreeable way. I understand where you are coming from, but like you say, you are new in the area. Reading your post, I felt lectured and hectored, not persuaded.

Hebe

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:42:31 +1200

But is charity work therefore immune from criticism?

I'm not saying that. At all. Criticism and debate is essential, and any decent aid organisation will be constantly self-evaluating rather than self-congratulating.

Hebe

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:34:05 +1200

It shouldnt be an industry it should be what we do as a matter of course.

Isn't though. In my naivety, I have been appalled to find out that.

Your reflexive reaction was mine too until I was able to see first-hand accounts of what a few bucks in our…

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:32:39 +1200

And what are you playing there fella? Still off-topic and seemingly with a personal bone to pick. Don't you remember me, I once said you'd make a great president?

Sacha

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:15:20 +1200

playing the victim will generally draw attention

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:13:10 +1200

It shouldnt be an industry it should be what we do as a matter of course.

But we don't so do-gooders try and pick up the slack.

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:59:45 +1200

Isn’t doing something, no matter how small, worth it when a life is saved or a kid gets to eat that day?

I don't think anyone here is even remotely saying charity is bad. Or that small things can't make a big difference.

But is charity work therefore immune from…

andin

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:39:29 +1200

Aid is undoubtedly a global industry
It shouldnt be an industry it should be what we do as a matter of course.

But the loathing directed against god botherers raising money for aid projects is painful to read.
a reflexive reaction

Hebe

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:34:10 +1200

Good piece Amberleigh. I too have seen in friends the awfulness of eating disorders, and I know about Live Below the Line because my partner until a couple of months back worked with one of the agencies promoting the campaign.

I am against food restriction campaigns that heavily promote the…

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:15:26 +1200

But surely it is still doing something and that's the change you want, no? However clumsy or patronising or whatever judgement is made upon it, it is something tangible and relatively timely for really hungry people.

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:06:41 +1200

you made me

weak-willed

Off-topic.

andin

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 20:46:29 +1200

I’d give my left testicle for world peace and of course the question must go out. Got any better ideas?
Well yes I have, but it would take sacrifices on a scale way beyond such campaigns which serve only as a salve for some. And take a lot of painful…

Sacha

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 20:36:23 +1200

you made me

weak-willed

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 20:20:25 +1200

Praise is a mighty motivator for some. The fact is they’re doing something, not nothing, for a change and that generally feels good. Some good will come of it. Why is it naff?

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 20:02:54 +1200

How much real damage is done in tokenistic behaviour as opposed to the tangible alleviation of immediate suffering in some poor bastard’s life half way around the world? It strikes me as highfalutin concern trolling to weigh one up against the other.

Anyway, I was supposed to be making a…

Amberleigh Jack

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:57:50 +1200

Thanks for the reply.
Don't get me wrong – I'm not trying to suggest that campaigns like Live Below the Line *cause* eating disorders. Much like I don't think it's possible to assign blame to something as complex as eating disorders and I'm pretty sure that if all obviously triggering…

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:49:42 +1200

(I have helped by endeavouring to not bring any caramel slice into the office)

That’s what I take issue with, right there.

How can this not seem like tokenism?

Admittedly a bit flippant Lilith, but the reality is that a large amount of money will be raised that would otherwise…

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:40:10 +1200

I've made a terrible mistake.

My earnest rant above is completely codswallopy. Kind of. I was defending a different campaign – Eat So They Can – which is also run by my colleagues (told you I was new). However, I've come to realise that the original post was more to…

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:32:06 +1200

(I have helped by endeavouring to not bring any caramel slice into the office)

That’s what I take issue with, right there.

How can this not seem like tokenism?

If people want to support charity, good for them, but should they expect praise for it? Isn’t their sacrifice rather trifling?

Michael Savidge

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:12:48 +1200

Disclosure: I work alongside people involved in running the campaign in NZ, but have had no part to play in its execution. I’m new there and it precedes me by a few years.

So, where to start?. It’s a valid argument you make Amberleigh but I think you missed something…

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:12:09 +1200

I have reservations about these sorts of projects. Obviously it's a good cause, but I'd prefer people did constructive things to raise money, like Islander says.

And as someone living on very little, I doubt 5 days of economising on food gives much insight into living in poverty. Anyone can…

Robyn Gallagher

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 19:07:21 +1200

It occurs to me that people with an eating disorder will find excuses not to eat, whether or not there are food-deprivation-based charity events. For example, in the UK at the moment, the "5:2" fasting diet is very popular. It's based on the idea that you fast for two days…

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 18:57:51 +1200

Thanks for this blog post.

And thanks for coming by and responding in good faith.

andin

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:42:23 +1200

It is a challenge that uses the concept of living off of much less as a reflective tool to both financially support our partners through fundraising, but also to create conversations about the reality of 1.2 billion people living below the poverty line
However we are convinced that Live Below…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:49:14 +1200

Live Below the Line does not condone, encourage or support behaviour that encourages long term unhealthy eating or consequential eating disorders

Which is great to hear and not unexpected. But the real point is whether your campaign results in stimulating eating disorder behaviour ... whether you intend it or not.…

Live Below the Line .

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:32:16 +1200

Thanks for this blog post. Live Below the Line does not condone, encourage or support behaviour that encourages long term unhealthy eating or consequential eating disorders.

Live Below the Line does result in most of the participants reducing their food consumption, and as Campaign Manager I acknowledge and accept that…

Islander

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:12:53 +1200

Heh!
Nobody EVER said to me – as a child or since- “Eat up your crusts or-” because I’ve always had this wild mop of curls (formerly brown with red highlights, now grey with silver highlights…but still curling on!)

Geoff Lealand

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:48:07 +1200

Really? Is there also a PO department which collects packets of crusts sent to children with straight hair?

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:13:24 +1200

Most people know that the Finnish Post Office has an office that replies to letters sent by children to Father Christmas.

What is less well known is that the South African Post Office also has a department dedicated to collecting and disposing of parcels of stale leftovers addressed to:
__The…

Islander

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:37:12 +1200

When Okarito had quite a few local kids, I was often approached by them to sponsor for the 40hr famine thing.
I always said: “No, but I have a lawn that needs mowing/ti-tree leaves to be picked
up and taken to the dump*/the veg garden needs weeding/whatever outside job
was…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:15:24 +1200

It all seems very "self-flagellation" to me. We have sinned by allowing x or y – therefore to absolve our sins we should punish ourselves.

As you so rightly and bravely point out there are many for whom such behaviour is all too easy and ultimately harmful. Well said.

Lucy Stewart

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 13:46:34 +1200

But the idea of being slimmer at the end of the weekend? It didn't even cross my mind. On the other hand, helping starving children wasn't a big concern of mine either.

As a kid, I never really got into the 40 Hour Famine because I didn't see how me…

andin

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:14:16 +1200

Farm subsidies are a major factor behind such unevenness, and organisers of campaigns like Live Below the Line would be better off spending their energies on fighting that

Yeah well half of them are sanctimonious, self righteous god botherers. Securing their foothold in a non existent world after their well…

JacksonP

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:51:15 +1200

Great piece Amberleigh.

During the 40 hour famine this year our twins (11) were under some peer pressure to participate in the ‘famine’, but we decided they could only do the no furniture version of it. It went fine, and they matched others in their fund raising.

This makes me…

Robyn Gallagher

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:46:14 +1200

Weight loss was the goal of the girls at my school and I am pretty sure that there were very few of them gave a sweet damn about the poor, hungry kids they were supposed to be helping.

Bloody hell. I feel so naive reading this. I did the 40…

Alice Ronald

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:44:09 +1200

I've read several comments from people who do actually live at/below the line, permanently. Most of them are actually pretty disgusted by the "poverty tourism" and grandstanding that seems to accompany these awareness raising stunts, especially when it's a celebrity or someone pretty well off staging it.

Their point is…

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 11:13:52 +1200

I thought immediately of this astonishing press release about a Live Below the Line venture.

However much it might read like dark, Charlie Brookeresque satire ... it's real.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:59:41 +1200

It brings to mind the fact that there’s enough food being produced around the world, but that the real problem is uneven distribution. It also gives lie to the Monsantos of this world who claim they’re genetically engineering crops in order to feed the world’s poor, when the real reason…

Public Address

Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:59:41 +1200

Discussion from blog post.