Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: So NZ First gets another list MP? Or does it?

sean mahoney

Tue, 31 Mar 2015 13:59:02 +1300

..I don't necessarily disagree...I just think it would be odd to have a law that stopped list MPs standing in bye-elections but not general elections its either one or the other (for me )...

Keir Leslie

Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:24:46 +1300

It's not the multiple candidacies that's the problem but the unclear law about how to handle them, no? Just require that if an MP is ever returned for two seats indicate within a fortnight which seat they'll sit for, and if they don't they vacate both. Assuming that the MP…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:15:41 +1300

Well, that would certainly be logical if you thought list MPs not standing in by-elections was a good idea. But as far as democracy goes, I don’t think it would be good.

Let’s take the example of the Greens. They have no electorate MPs, but 14 list MPs. They’ve only…

sean mahoney

Tue, 31 Mar 2015 11:11:13 +1300

surely if a list mp cant stand in a by-election they should also be "banned" from standing in a seat at the general election and being on the list ? Otherwise we are creating a strange demarcation as by-elections are just a way of replacing departed MPs ...

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 31 Mar 2015 10:10:44 +1300

Moved from other thread, in which Phil Lyth originally wrote...

My inner purist thinks the Electoral Act should be amended to prohibit an MP standing in a by-election; my inner pragmatist tells me this is unlikely to happen.

Also, I think that would be wrong.
There are a number of…

Phil Lyth

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 19:14:03 +1300

Blog in haste, repent at leisure.

Yes, Thu 2 April.

FletcherB

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:46:12 +1300

The House is sitting until Thu 1 April,

I’m pretty sure they’ll take a break before then ? Maybe for an election or something ! :)

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:00:25 +1300

No, the point is that public policy isn't single issue.

linger

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 12:47:51 +1300

That argument only works if all parties (and all voter decisions) are single-issue.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:56:20 +1300

No, I'm saying that if people want 100 MPs (or to be able to beat their children and so on), they should vote in a parliamentary majority at an election that favours that policy.

linger

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:45:21 +1300

So you're saying they should have voted for NZF instead of ... who won in Northland?

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:31:04 +1300

If "the people" felt that strongly about saving 0.005% of public spending, ensuring that a government would struggle to appoint sufficient competent and experienced ministers to do their job of ensuring public policy agendas are those of the elected government rather than the permanent public service and reducing the diversity…

Steve Curtis

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:25:26 +1300

Perhaps I’m a bear of little brain, but I do tend to hold the view that our House of Representatives is not a basket of trinkets to be dished out as politicians see fit

The total number of MPs was put to the people for their consideration, and the result…

Sam M

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:17:52 +1300

I guess under the old FPP, by-elections could result in different Parliaments.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:47:07 +1300

It was designed that way. The basis, I think, is that the proportionality at the time of election is no longer relevant for the next three years and voters in a by-election are entitled to have their choice reflected in parliament.

If by-election results were compensated for on the list,…

Sam M

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:37:16 +1300

The thing I don't really get is that the list seats are supposed to balance a party's number in Parliament so as to reflect the proportion of list votes they got – taking into account the number of electorate seats they got.

If we want Parliament to reflect the will…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 09:26:46 +1300

However I’m saying that there may be many complicated scenarios that could arise, and it may well be that Privileges becomes involved.
This is National we are talking about, of course they will try and complicate matters to hold on to their privileged position...

BenWilson

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 09:26:07 +1300

Whatever else shakes out of this debate I have to say I find the argument that there’s no difference if he takes the seat or doesn’t quite spurious. You can find divisions in which it doesn’t make a difference, but there are possibly ones where it will, in the case…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 09:05:54 +1300

Interestingly, British MPs can't resign – there is an archaic procedure by which they apply for an "office of profit under the crown" which disqualifies them from sitting in parliament, creating a vacancy.

I'd just suggest thi:. If Peters did not resign as a list MP (he just said that…

Phil Lyth

Mon, 30 Mar 2015 07:39:29 +1300

I addressed the specific situation you posed,and I think that would be a matter of 'straightforward mechanics.'

However I'm saying that there may be many complicated scenarios that could arise, and it may well be that Privileges becomes involved.

In the last 24 hours we've seen Peters frame the debate…

Joe Wylie

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 22:50:01 +1300

Given Carter’s abysmal track record in the role, he would ask the National party what they want him to do.

Everyone grabs their ankles at the mere thought of John Key. Everyone except that godawful throwback Winston Peters, and now that horrid Andrew Little:
[[http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/67543446/prime-minister-john-key-defends-northland-campaign|"Initially I thought it would be…

Sacha

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 22:10:32 +1300

Are you seriously suggesting that it is possible that, if Winston was to pen a resignation letter to the Speaker in the week after Easter, the Speaker might either decline to accept it, or refer the question of whether he should accept it to the Privileges Committee?

Given Carter's abysmal…

Idiot Savant

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 21:52:06 +1300

There is one MP placed to write to the Speaker: ACT’s David Seymour. Would he be of a mind to put pen to paper?

If Steven Joyce tells him to.

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 17:28:59 +1300

Thanks Sean – I accept that Electoral Commission are in good faith telling people that. However, they are not the arbiters of whether a vacancy is created or not.

I see that as the Electoral Commission addressing the non-controversial position of what happens if Winston Peters does resign. I didn’t…

Phil Lyth

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 16:19:05 +1300

Thanks Sean – I accept that Electoral Commission are in good faith telling people that. However, they are not the arbiters of whether a vacancy is created or not.

Phil Lyth

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 16:12:50 +1300

Graeme Edgeler (asked on Twitter)

@philiplyth is it your view that the statement "Members' seats become vacant only as provided in Electoral Act 1993" is debatable?

I note that is the heading to s23 of the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014 the whole of which is:

23 Members' seats become vacant…

Keir Leslie

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 15:17:30 +1300

I think there's precedents from the 19th century UK parliament of candidates being returned for multiple constituencies – they tended, I think, to require a choice of which one to represent before being seated. (Unsure if any were ever elected while already members, which would be the direct analogy.)

Certainly…

Phil Lyth

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:28:56 +1300

Surely you mean “noting that the Official Count and the return of the writ are nearly two weeks away” ,

Oops, you are quite right Steve – mea culpa. Will get it fixed.

Steve Barnes

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:22:19 +1300

noting that the Official Count and the return of the writ are nearly two weeks ago.
Surely you mean "noting that the Official Count and the return of the writ are nearly two weeks away"? meaning NZ First has two weeks in which to make their decision.
It also gives…

sean mahoney

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:19:32 +1300

I asked the electoral commission about this a few weeks ago. The response from them I have pasted below ...

The Electoral Act 1993 provides the legal framework for parliamentary elections. A person is eligible to contest a parliamentary election provided he or she is:

· Enrolled as a voter…

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:11:06 +1300

Winston Peters is considering not replacing himself with another list MP. Says he believes in smaller parliaments

And people seriously wonder why politicians, fairly or not, get tagged as arrogant, out of touch and epically up themselves? Perhaps I'm a bear of little brain, but I do tend to hold…

Public Address

Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:11:06 +1300

Discussion from blog post.