Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: Sharks Dine Out on Christchurch’s Red Zoners

Bart Hanson

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:21:21 +1200

Read about our situation...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Govt-Stealing-our-Home/418944434833496

andin

Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:52:45 +1200

I hadn’t understood what the problem was with the government’s offer.

Ah! A Model Citizen. Sorry dont take it personally. I just wanted to add to my channelling of Dirty Harry to highlight cracks, nee fissures that appear in the fabric of society.
If it was your house would you…

nzlemming

Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:26:09 +1200

Oh God no…

On the plus side, you could pass a bylaw forbidding hugging the mayor...

giovanni tiso

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 20:51:14 +1200

Empathy?

Or knowledge. I must admit that until David sat us all down and patiently explained the thing to us I hadn't understood what the problem was with the government's offer.

Oh, and Mike, thank you for this.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 20:43:25 +1200

Maybe I’m missing something here,
so I’m happy to be enlightened.
Empathy?

andin

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 16:04:59 +1200

you will receive a payout for roughly that amount. Yes, I said roughly; I’m under no illusion that the system is perfect.

Just in your mind, as you typed that, a few things fell through an acceptable crack.
Now you have to ask yourself "Were they human?"
Well, were they?

Joshua Arbury

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 15:38:17 +1200

Isn't the main issue of the post the fact that there are very few affordable houses left in Christchurch for these people to move to – with the money that they get from the government?

I don't think people are asking to get a better place than they had before,…

Emma Hart

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 15:24:32 +1200

S, I suggest your read this post of David's. $200 000 short is not "a better house than you had before". Nobody is asking that. Nobody.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 15:10:58 +1200

so I'm happy to be enlightened.
Well for starters from what is written here and at David Haywoods, is, full replacement taken with insurance companies does not mean full replacement, so you can have your red zoned house repaired on land that you can't live on.That is a total fuck…

S Schumacher

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 14:42:21 +1200

I have to ask the question, unpopular as it may be: Why the assumption that your only option is to buy a bare section and build a new house?

Why not take insurance/government payout and buy something of similar value to what you had? There are existing houses in the…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 12:52:58 +1200

New schools, new roads, new pipes and so forth.
new river, new old heritage houses, and it could work ;)

Joshua Arbury

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 11:04:12 +1200

From my understanding there is already a legal framework to get around problems like this – it's called the Public Works Act. It is obvious that new areas around Christchurch will need to develop in order to accommodate the population that is displaced by the earthquake – not just those…

Joe Wylie

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 10:42:52 +1200

I passed through Darfield the other day. Everyone appeared to have two hands. Once you know, you find yourself checking.

Steve Barnes

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 10:17:04 +1200

Alan Bollard, then.And his ute.

I think Darfield Charlie has done enough damage for one decade.

Rob Stowell

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 21:48:22 +1200

I’ve just spent the afternoon in a meeting to attempt to set up just such a scheme. The idea is to try and save the heritage (circa 100 year old) houses in the Red Zone – but the concept could easily be extended/adopted for newer houses/homeowners. More on this later……

Sacha

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:53:37 +1200

I wasn't making a broad point there – the specifics might be far more useful right now.

Kumara Republic

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:24:22 +1200

Is the Minister now confirming that it was the natural event and not the subsequent government decision that has affected red-zoned properties?

Someone tell the insurance companies trying to wriggle out of honouring their full replacement policies.

Two words: disaster capitalism.

Joe Wylie

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 18:16:21 +1200

And I say David Haywood for Mayor!

Oh God no...
Alan Bollard, then.
And his ute.

Sacha

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:44:20 +1200

Gerry Brownlee’s response

also includes this nugget:

...given the disaster of the earthquake events removed the ability to stay on the land...

Is the Minister now confirming that it was the natural event and not the subsequent government decision that has affected red-zoned properties?

Someone tell the insurance companies trying…

Sacha

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:34:42 +1200

This seems to be Gerry Brownlee’s response to Mike Coleman’s piece

What. a. dick.

There is no hurry to settle...

Spoken like someone from Fendalton whose home is not unrepairable.

none of us can expect insurers to offer outcomes or cover beyond the scope of the policy we bought.

What,…

Islander

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:30:28 +1200

O gag.
He is ACTUALLY SAYING MIKE C IS RIGHT!!!

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:30:15 +1200

Oh God no…

What help would God be? Supposed to have got you guys in this bind in the first place, oh... wait a minute, :)

Islander

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:28:52 +1200

O shit o dear – Parker really hasnt changed his spots eh?

Islander

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:27:20 +1200

Only if you want it o benevolent dictator of the Known Universe...

Joe Wylie

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:21:41 +1200

. . . Gerry Brownlee’s response to Mike Coleman’s piece
No doubt finer minds than mine will fisk the details of Brownlee's reply, but the glib condescencion of this is breathtaking (italics are mine):
Mike Coleman asserts that the Government has bent to the call of international insurers and reinsurers…

David Haywood

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:13:10 +1200

And I say David Haywood for Mayor!

Oh God no...

Joe Wylie

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:10:47 +1200

+++++1!!

David Haywood

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:10:26 +1200

This seems to be Gerry Brownlee’s response to Mike Coleman’s piece:

click here

I must say that I think the government’s proposed buy-out solution is great for the majority of people in the Red Zone. But it does leave a sizable minority of people (such as my family) in a…

Joe Wylie

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:09:45 +1200

. . . maybe SI local bodies getting together and organising something in that direction too?
Given its godawful track record on these matters, it'd be a bit of a stretch to expect the Parkerstani faction to hop on board.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:02:43 +1200

David Haywood

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:52:21 +1200

On the other hand- collectives of even 10 or 20 families, with a nominated buyer or agent, would have significant money behind them.

I've just spent the afternoon in a meeting to attempt to set up just such a scheme. The idea is to try and save the heritage (circa…

Islander

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:59:21 +1200

Now that is an excellent suggestion Rob Stowell.

I'd venture an extension: Dunedin CC is having problems getting reinsurance at reasonable rates (not the hiked-up shark rates offered): maybe SI local bodies getting together and organising something in that direction too?

Rob Stowell

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:19:50 +1200

Roger said to me they do not want to get involved in the Market. My ‘yelling from roof top’ is trying to get people to see there will be no other way for people to get land.
Yes. Leaving the resolution of people’s dire housing needs to ‘the market’ is…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:00:28 +1200

Insurance are coming off well out of this.

Indeed. What is happening here is a write-down of assets and liabilities, your assets, their liabilities, classic Capitalism.
There is room for even more trickery. If an insurance company "writes off" your property, it becomes theirs and I am willing to bet…

Sacha

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:04:57 +1200

Part of the solution might be higher density, cheaper to rent units/flats rather than attempting to re-house everybody on a 1/4 acre section. But I suspect that people (potential tenants and NIMBY neighbours) will reject this option.

Accelerating the ongoing culture change away from the quarter acre section will need…

Sacha

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:59:26 +1200

Roger said to me they do not want to get involved in the Market.

Yet by choosing to do nothing, they *are* influencing the market. Property speculators will be emboldened to go on a land-buying spree, jacking up prices.

stephen walker

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:35:22 +1200

the whole "deal" of forcing people off their land and letting the insurance companies walk away from their responsibility to pay out fully is sick. this govt is the govt representing international finance, not nzers. but it is, apparently, about to be re-elected by nz voters who are getting totally…

MikeC

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:19:47 +1200

I talked to someone who left home after Sept. there house as been uninhabitable for 10 months and now the insurance have assessed again and said it can be fixed and given them a pathetic value. they are stunned. As I have been saying Insurance Companies will not rebuild unless…

MikeC

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 12:16:15 +1200

Great idea Ross. CERA have the powers to do anything they like with land. They can acquire at Rateable Value, freeze prices. Roger said to me they do not want to get involved in the Market. My 'yelling from roof top' is trying to get people to see there will…

David Haywood

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 10:22:18 +1200

Or, as someone just suggested to me in person, freeze the land values at their February 21st asking price and treat any subsequent price rises as profiteering.

Not necessarily endorsing this idea (I haven't had time to think through the consequences) but it would appear to have some virtues.

Ross Mason

Sat, 16 Jul 2011 09:18:43 +1200

It is simple. We talked about it earlier. Prevent the selling of empty sections within 50km of the Red Zone by no more than a percentage of the 2007 rateable value per year from now. Lets say 20% as a quickie guess.

Joe Wylie

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 23:17:36 +1200

Perhaps landlords in Christchurch are a nasty bunch but this is probably overstating it a little.
Like all generalisations it's a bit of an overstatement. I know of someone who's had to relocate recently thanks to quake damage, and their new landlady's a real angel. For people in Mike Coleman's…

Simon Lyall

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 22:05:25 +1200

Rent and be at the mercy of the landlord sharks

Perhaps landlords in Christchurch are a nasty bunch but this is probably overstating it a little. Remember what got these people into trouble is having all their wealth (actually more than that with the mortgage) tied up in a single,…

Islander

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 20:00:22 +1200

Thank you!

MikeC

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:55:49 +1200

Hi. Only in hard print at mo but will try get editor to email me copy and post

Islander

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 19:16:13 +1200

Do you have a site ref for that please MikeC?

MikeC

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:59:39 +1200

The Red Zone needs more than National throwing money at it and leaving people to the market. Gerry's response to this article is in the mainland news. Unbelievable and you all need to read it. Basically he says 200000 mortgage is nothing for folk only like paying rent!!! He said…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:09:20 +1200

National will do what they always do, let the "free Market" sort it all out. Can't you just feel that invisible hand between your butt cheeks?.

Lilith __

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:58:08 +1200

they do admire good lawyering

As someone observed in another thread, when the engineers have declared red zones in some of the expensive hill suburbs, then the fancy lawyers will be out in force.

Lilith __

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:55:27 +1200

(d) Shift away from Christchurch?

And go where? Somewhere cheaper? Oamaru? Invercargill?

Great piece, Mike, I hope the govt realises this issue isn’t going to go away. I think CERA using its powers to acquire substitute land is the best idea*. Otherwise so many homeowners in the Red Zone just…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:51:50 +1200

be tough with the insurance companies

The problem is that philosophically Brownlee and the National party don't believe that it is appropriate to "be tough with" a big business.

Big Businesses are the very definition of what they believe is the right way to do things. Hard nosed bargaining that…

Joe Boden

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:41:11 +1200

Great piece. We are in the "orange but going to turn red" zone and will be facing this ourselves in the coming months. The rest of the country really needs to pay close attention to what's going on here.

merc

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:43:07 +1200

The police? http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/5287612/Cop-art-pops-up-in-city

Kumara Republic

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:30:53 +1200

Who owns the Red Zone now?

"Commercial sensitivity. We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you."

merc

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:27:36 +1200

Who owns the Red Zone now?

Kumara Republic

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:16:23 +1200

Red-zoners – effectively refugees in their own country.

izogi

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:03:53 +1200

Our options in the Red Zone are these:

(d) Shift away from Christchurch?

I think I fully understand that not being an option for many, though.

andin

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:08:45 +1200

The property developers know this and have begun to buy up land.

Im just shaking my head in disbelief.

Christopher Nimmo

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:51:33 +1200

How about... the government appropriates the land from property developers and exchanges like for like with Red Zoners?

Thomas Johnson

Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:26:08 +1200

Don't worry, Labour is going to help you by exempting you from CGT for 5 years!

Seriously though, it is an awful situation that is going to lead to windfall gains for city-margin landowners.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:52:50 +1200

Perhaps the Aussies weren't quite so desperate for big daddy's approval.
The advantages of a bit more critical mass, and ongoing risk assessment based on different conditions?

It's a horrible state of affairs Mike, and there's little comfort to be drawn from knowing that a significant number of those currently…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:35:12 +1200

The comparison with the Newcastle quake is interesting, as it's a similar-sized city to Christchurch. Unlike Christchurch there was one large quake, followed by a single aftershock. Perhaps the most significant difference, from an insurance point of view, is that no real requirement for earthquake resistance has since been incorporated…

Sacha

Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:15:42 +1200

Somehow, the Australian government forced insurance companies to rebuild homes on new land after the 1989 Newcastle Earthquake but ‘little’ New Zealand is being held to ransom by Corporate America and Europe.
Perhaps the Aussies weren't quite so desperate for big daddy's approval.

David Haywood

Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:05:37 +1200

Nice piece, Mike! I think you've captured the dilemma that many of us Red Zoners now find ourselves in...

Public Address

Thu, 14 Jul 2011 22:05:37 +1200

Discussion from blog post.