Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: Saying what we actually mean on inequality, the economy, and everything else

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:18:09 +1200

Wetware…
Back in 1949 a kiwi economist, Bill Phillips, made a fabulous machine to show how money circulates through a system. (specifically as a model of the workings of the British economy)
The MONIAC (Monetary National Income Analogue Computer) also known as the Phillips Hydraulic Computer and the Financephalograph,
There…

Marc C

Tue, 25 Aug 2015 00:36:17 +1200

Unbelievable, is there a media report on that? I am sure such cases are still the odd shocking one out there, but given the situation we have, they must be increasing.

One man we can thank is this one, I suppose:
http://fitforwork.co.nz/dr-david-beaumont-inducted-as-afoem-president

Former ATOS man, managed to get a “reputation”…

Kirk Serpes

Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:48:55 +1200

So from what I've seen there are two different explanations for why we have only two dimensions to political ideology.

The link I had in this to the George Lakoff video gives a really good analysis of what separates the two ends of the political spectrum. He puts it down…

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:34:24 +1200

But by using certain phrases and language, our dear government demagogues manage to mislead the wider public,

and, it would appear, its own employees.

A man, a father of dependent children, has inoperable, terminal cancer.

He was on the Supported Living Payment, as befits someone for whom work is an…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 23 Aug 2015 17:50:55 +1200

Its not difficult to make the mistake of referring to people who live in poverty as a problem that can be read in the same way that rat infestations are a problem.

Irradiating poverty…

Or, taking the "War on Poverty" a bit too literally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7wEAz7I

Joe Wylie

Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:28:53 +1200

Its not difficult to make the mistake of referring to people who live in poverty as a problem that can be read in the same way that rat infestations are a problem.

Irradiating poverty...

Serco had a nice little operation going processing them into YouTube fodder until some party pooper…

BenWilson

Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:35:50 +1200

As I said I don’t know if there’s a viable alternative or what it might be, or if the spatial way of thinking about politics is even especially bad, but it does seem to me that this whole spatial language has a compelling effect on how politics works and what…

BenWilson

Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:11:23 +1200

What data are you suggesting be used for dimensional analysis?

Surveys of opinions on a wide range of topics, and on how they voted. I don't know of existing free sources for such information, but it seems valuable enough to pay for.

Under such conditions, a multidimensional PCA capturing variance…

linger

Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:25:13 +1200

What data are you suggesting be used for dimensional analysis? Presumably some quantification of party (or personal) policy positions other than actual voting records. The latter exercise was attempted in 2008 for parliamentary votes in NZ. (You and I discussed some of the pitfalls here at the time.) And of…

izogi

Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:29:07 +1200

Hi Ben.

Ultimately, I think the answer to your question about why it’s so embedded is because it’s easy. The 2 dimensional options you mention just open the multidimensional floodgates.

True, but it seems as if we’re still stuck in a metaphor of political parties somehow living in a dimensional…

BenWilson

Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:18:30 +1200

Just to explain what I mean a bit better, you can pretty much count as a dimension anything that you can put a quantity on. So if you ask 50 questions to a sample of people, you get a data set with 50 dimensions in it. Now we find it…

BenWilson

Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:12:04 +1200

The only alternatives I’ve really seen are variants of the Nolan chart or Political compass, but not much beyond that.

Yes, I haven’t seen a lot either. Ultimately, I think the answer to your question about why it’s so embedded is because it’s easy. The 2 dimensional options you mention…

Ben Cragg

Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:49:58 +1200

I'm really enjoying these posts – much needed analysis and discussion. I'm reminded of whenever the Democrats in the US would attempt to discuss the "wealth gap", and the Republicans would immediately start screaming "class warfare". It seems to me that an important step in moving past this is the…

izogi

Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:14:31 +1200

The political right have a fairly consistent ecosystem of language to articulate their worldview on these concepts.

I’ve often wondered if the entire “politics is a spectrum” (or similar) metaphor, with left versus right, is even appropriate in New Zealand’s modern MMP environment. It made some vague sense in FPP…

Marc C

Wed, 19 Aug 2015 01:31:43 +1200

__"The political right have a fairly consistent ecosystem of language to articulate their worldview on these concepts. They know what they want and can communicate it, and this is not by accident. It comes from the robust American research, where think tanks have been using focus groups, surveys and endless…

Michael Meyers

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:09:01 +1200

Mr. Meyers, your reaction to my earlier post, your vitriol, has indicated to me the true nature of the “Step Up” campaign.

I have nothing to do with the Step Up, so please don't let my comment reflect badly on the organisers of the Step It Up conference.

Kumara Republic

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:56:16 +1200

Its a corruption not just of language but of the people who espouse such views.Such people never like to admit to being wrong. They would rather see people suffer than admit to being Wrong. Its narcissism gone mad.

Narcissism underpinned by survivorship bias. And I just want to shout, "FUCK,…

Howard Edwards

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 11:59:10 +1200

This article by Kirsty Johnston in the Herald last week highlights inequality in our education system. The articles heading implies it is only about Auckland but many of the issues are in fact New Zealand-wide.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:44:28 +1200

Words worth?
...which economy in particular?
It seems the 'economy of scale' best suits reptiles...
...perhaps there is a good reason that 'economy'
is an anagram of 'money co'

or it could just be John Key mangling 'ego ignominy'

I'm sure the 'E' in Ecan has been surreptitiously changed from…

Carol Stewart

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:21:40 +1200

Great post, Kirk. I'm really enjoying your analysis.

Rob Stowell

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 09:38:16 +1200

Yeah. When we fail to even acknowledge people being hurt by the choices we are making in economic policy yet endlessly worry about the economy being "hurt" there is definitely something askew.

andin

Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:49:51 +1200

The political right have a fairly consistent ecosystem of language to articulate their worldview
Its a corruption not just of language but of the people who espouse such views.Such people never like to admit to being wrong. They would rather see people suffer than admit to being Wrong. Its narcissism…

Kirk Serpes

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:21:13 +1200

That is amazing! Did a fair it of complex math at Engineering school so really appreciate the geek humour in this. :-)

Sacha

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:20:57 +1200

I really appreciate what Kirk is doing with this event, and anybody who has organised one knows how much work it takes and how much it costs just to break even. Let's show a bit of respect please. We all have our own ways of contiibuting to change.

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:07:54 +1200

This comment makes me so angry. I guess it’s best to do nothing because someone has organised a conference and have the audacity to charge money? It does actually cost money to put on a conference, you know. Or maybe they should offer scholarships to attend. Oh wait, they are.…

Kevin McCready

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:49:19 +1200

There is no such thing as "the economy". It's a mistake to even use the word. Here's why:
https://kmccready.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/open-letter-to-colin-james-cc-rod-oram/

And for an accessible pdf of Lakoff:
http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/resource-center/thinking-points/

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:51:04 +1200

scholarships to attend. Oh wait, they are.

Ok so that would have been nice to tell all without your vitriol. That doesn't help the cause . I think Rosemary was suggesting that $175 is an unreachable amount for many, with a flippant comment for who could actually afford it. Good…

Michael Meyers

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:34:19 +1200

The $175 is a bit of a barrier…

Best to let the better heeled get on with addressing inequality…

This comment makes me so angry. I guess it’s best to do nothing because someone has organised a conference and have the audacity to charge money? It does actually cost money…

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:53:20 +1200

come along to Step it Up

The $175 is a bit of a barrier...

Best to let the better heeled get on with addressing inequality...

Bob Williams

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:20:52 +1200

And don't forget the two seminal works by Susan Sontag – "Illness as Metaphor" and "AIDS and its metaphors". Both are brilliant essays into the huge influence using 'war' metaphors when speaking of illness has had on how we address disease (eg fighting disease, suffering AIDS, battle cancer), in particular…

Australopithecus

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:06:50 +1200

The economy is a powerful tool for improving our well-being. However, it may damage lives when applied without care. When we have children going hungry, rivers unusable for swimming or fishing, workers dying in their workplaces, and livelihoods destroyed by extreme financial or weather events, we need better controls to…

TracyMac

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:04:44 +1200

Also, I'm enjoying this series. I'm so sick of right-wing received truths and language being parroted back to me by family members and acquaintances. Time to get the message going the other way... as long as it's backed up by substance.

TracyMac

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:58:15 +1200

Cooperation is indeed a market norm. We have to agree on an exchange method, what fair value is for both parties, have an adequately safe production and trading environment, etc etc etc. For all those variables that aren't adequately met, cost goes up. Exponentially.

But again, the "red in tooth…

David Hood

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:13:37 +1200

The latest Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal comic.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3831

Public Address

Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:34:15 +1200

Discussion from blog post.