Public Address | Cafe | Polity: Refugees and aid - we’re laggards

Steve Barnes

Wed, 23 Sept 2015 17:01:06 +1200

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
Well, that worked out just fine for the US, the country that John Key idolises but, Nah, we can't afford it. Apparently we need more billionaire businessmen, regardless of who they are or where they come from.…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 22 Sept 2015 09:28:37 +1200

Important lesson (take note, Unitec): if you are a communications department setting an assignment to “go online and damage a brand”, do be careful to specify “not our brand, though!”.

I'd like some alone time with the teacher that set that assignment to discuss the pros and cons of such…

David Hood

Tue, 22 Sept 2015 08:52:01 +1200

And so we mark our calendars for September 2016 to see what next years iteration of the class brings.

linger

Tue, 22 Sept 2015 08:28:06 +1200

I suspect the assignment was something like “join an online argument”, rather than anything going more directly against the institutional code of conduct; but it would have been nice if they’d also provided some clear guidelines for what constitutes a constructive argument, and it would have been even better if…

Amy Gale

Tue, 22 Sept 2015 03:47:32 +1200

Important lesson (take note, Unitec): if you are a communications department setting an assignment to "go online and damage a brand", do be careful to specify "not our brand, though!".

linger

Mon, 21 Sept 2015 21:13:59 +1200

But isn’t it wonderful to suddenly have so many newly-registered first-time posters? (The irony of not feeling automatically able to welcome them all, on this thread especially, is not lost on me. Post-Troll Suspicion Disorder, eh.)

eo1993

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 22:15:42 +1200

I believe that New Zealand can defiantly handle more than 600 refugees taking these 600 over the next few years is not the impact we need. I believe we need to take more of an immediate action. I agree with the above comment from Steve suggesting that if our economy…

chris

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 18:10:25 +1200

As many have said before most Syrians already speak English, among quite a few other languages too.

Incidentally migrants on partner visas or family reunification visas aren’t required to speak English. Our family reunification visa system may have its issues but the lack of English language proficiency is not chief amongst…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 15:17:36 +1200

However accepting 600+ at one time will strain our current economy until refugees find work or are efficient in English.

As many have said before most Syrians already speak English, among quite a few other languages too. If 600 people will strain our economy then our economy is already in…

Saud Al

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 15:03:13 +1200

I agree with you I do not think it should be at once but, in less time frame than two years.
Government can make a deal with the refugees to send them to work in the labor work, where there is lack or workers, such as, Christchurch to help in…

Shona Francis

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 14:55:27 +1200

Accepting refugees who have something to contribute to our country such as qualified skills – I'm okay with that.
We could do with an economic boost. However accepting 600+ at one time will strain our current economy until refugees find work or are efficient in English.

Joe Wylie

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 13:32:33 +1200

What a guy! What a Christian! What a dick...
"The word is very clear. 'Do not muzzle the ox who is treading out the grain'...It's very biblical that the preacher, the man who is doing all the work should be rewarded accordingly."

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 13:11:12 +1200

what do you do to help when they get here?
Gee Daman, how can I ever prove to you that I too have my place in the scheme of things, perhaps not as proactive as Bishop Brian Tamaki, who couldn't wait for them to get here – [[http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/72221190/bishop-tamaki-lords-his-monthlong-luxury-trip-on-social-media|he just flew…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 20 Sept 2015 00:18:43 +1200

Oh, not again! This argument wasn’t sound the first time it appeared in this thread.

From the same troll. I have reported the tosser, he will keep coming back though, he has nothing better to do with his time obviously.

Steve Barnes

Sat, 19 Sept 2015 22:46:40 +1200

Maybe with the 750 refugees arriving over the next two years, people could stop playing keyboard warrior and actually do some work.

You keep making these assumptions when you have absolutely nothing to back them up with, you haven't a clue as to what I do and I resent your…

linger

Sat, 19 Sept 2015 21:15:45 +1200

Do I, for example, spend any of my free time volunteering as a teacher to help migrants develop their English skills and thereby land suitable jobs? Funny you should ask. But it’s not that relevant. You exaggerate the amount of ongoing effort required to help refugees – who, by and…

Gould S

Sat, 19 Sept 2015 19:24:51 +1200

You have a valid point – that the purpose of this outlet is to form discussions. My perspective aligns perfectly with Lucy’s above perspective.

Are you able to directly answer my questions linger? That is what I seek by participating in this online discussion.

* the spark in debate, especially…

linger

Sat, 19 Sept 2015 15:55:21 +1200

stop playing keyboard warrior and actually do some work
Oh, not again! This argument wasn’t sound the first time it appeared in this thread. If we accept your criterion of what counts as pointless activity, then your comment – complaining about the existence of an online discussion – is, by…

Gould S

Sat, 19 Sept 2015 13:38:25 +1200

Why are you all so uptight about wanting refugees when you won’t help them when they get here?

The recent emergences of New Zealanders in plea of allowing more refugees into New Zealand show most of you are missing the point.

The footage shown by the media has been heart…

Saud Al

Thu, 17 Sept 2015 16:16:06 +1200

From a personal point of view I would Support the argument. Accepting 600 people over two and half years time is too long for small amount of people. If the country would actually accept more people in short time it will help in raising up the economy. Yes more money…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 14 Sept 2015 14:54:20 +1200

Chris and I were having a discussion in a previous refugee thread, about the state of what NZ had to offer (e.g. our poor quality social housing), and whether it would really be a kindness to offer it.

I think we ended up agreeing that the important thing was to…

Russell Brown

Mon, 14 Sept 2015 11:24:23 +1200

Neil Finn's new charity single. The introduction by Benedict Cumberbatch is very relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gWLQhCSv2I

Russell Brown

Mon, 14 Sept 2015 11:11:25 +1200

It's clunky and annoying deleting numbers of comments (and I am grumpy with a rotten cold) but I've cleaned up the troll-derail and would be grateful if we could get back on topic.

Bart Janssen

Mon, 14 Sept 2015 09:32:33 +1200

So the internal conflict in Syria is so utterly hopeless and awful that families are leaving homes that they have lived in for decades, abandoning their homes to die crossing the Mediterranean.

And in response someone feels it reasonable to troll a discussion about New Zealand's response.

It's times like…

Russell Brown

Mon, 14 Sept 2015 08:17:59 +1200

Sorry folks. Troll dispatched.

Don't forget you can always report a post if I seem to be missing something.

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 14 Sept 2015 07:23:22 +1200

Russell
...this one is ticking
might be time to tag and release this particular little science project and do pass on the particulars for a watching brief...

chris

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 22:42:22 +1200

You have a calendar from 1965?

No I don’t, it was a lame attempt to make light of a royal fuck up.

David Hood

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 22:34:48 +1200

Come for the refugee discussion, stay for the dick-waving contest!

It could be sponsored, for charity.

David Hood

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 22:33:20 +1200

You have a calendar from 1965?

That said the 1965 one was also the 2010 one, but 1970 would have worked.

BenWilson

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 22:20:13 +1200

Come for the refugee discussion, stay for the dick-waving contest!

Word!

You can try. Lets meet?

Crikey! This isn't Grindr!

chris

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 21:52:39 +1200

I just wish I hadn't used a 1965 calender.

chris

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 21:36:01 +1200

I’m deadly serious.

Daman Saini

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 20:55:48 +1200

Despite the keyboard war,
interesting article

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/sep/11/destitute-syrian-refugees-jordan-lebanon-may-return-to-warzone

Daman Saini

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 20:45:52 +1200

And in terms of this discussion, hardly anyone here is discussing Syrian refugees, and how we can help, all the attention has been put on me, might as well name the thread after me. I'm here to stay. Buckle up.

chris

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 18:50:45 +1200

no?

Steve Barnes

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 18:09:09 +1200

The government was swift with extending opening hours for bars and clubs for the Rugby World Cup, that shows their priority.

Beer and circuses Marc, beer & circuses.
Shallow, meaningless entertainment for shallow meaningless people.

BenWilson

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 18:05:46 +1200

btw, If you can Google it to work out that it's a misquote, that's just confirmation :-).

BenWilson

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 17:42:55 +1200

People are just making the assumption that he is a University student, for all we know he could be at high school.

That's what I'm feeling. 15 maybe? Thinking about my own writing style at that age, my own grasp of what evidence meant.

Can you guys even run a…

Marc C

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 16:59:31 +1200

Yes, the refugee quota could and should be doubled, right now, and the Prime Minister, himself a son of a refugee from NAZI persecution and discrimination, is an utter hypocrite for dragging his feet.

But as others have already commented, the majority, mostly "silent", who have now voted in National…

David Hood

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 16:28:15 +1200

Well, pretty much Corbyn's first act after being elected was to go to a Solidarity with Refugees rally, but as the "not in government" party there is not a lot of power to do much in the short term.

Graham Dunster

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 15:34:00 +1200

Be great to see NZ Labour following UK's lead – http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/13/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-victory-vision – that will surely help the refugee situation?

Steve Barnes

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 14:18:10 +1200

(where does that number come from anyway)

I thought about that and concluded that, even though he was playing the "I don't really know but you can help me" card, he had some handy profiling at his fingertips. After all, he kept telling us that it was his "Job" to…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 14:15:05 +1200

Among all the post(ur)ing, that’s all we can be certain of.

It is only Nat troll...
;-)
/coat

linger

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 14:03:39 +1200

People are just making the assumption that he is a [...] studentTroll = troll. Among all the post(ur)ing, that’s all we can be certain of.

David Hood

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 13:05:08 +1200

Incidentally, if you realise the median age of all New Zealanders was 38 years in 2013, and assume there are not many under six year olds reading PA, an average in the mid-40s (where does that number come from anyway) is consistent with PA being read by a full range…

David Hood

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 12:57:20 +1200

communications students? Things have changed a lot since I was at university.

People are just making the assumption that he is a University student, for all we know he could be at high school.

I think, looking back through the thread I resolutely gave him every opportunity to engage with…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 11:54:39 +1200

What sort of places run third year comms courses?
Can’t be many
Young Natz I guess , under the watchful eye of the propaganda meister Joyce or some other shape shifting reptile.

Danielle

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 11:54:23 +1200

Now we have to run a mile to have our arguments taken seriously by communications students? Things have changed a lot since I was at university.

(I am also not a dude, ftr. I do get mildly annoyed when people are mind-numbingly crap at constructing arguments, but I wouldn't say…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 11:09:46 +1200

CAP-IT-ALL-ISM has a lot to answer for...
I had visions of him pounding away on his Fisher-Price keyboard ...
Meltdown in the toy aisle.
Perhaps Russell can write a note to his/her/its parents/course supervisor/programmers...
What sort of places run third year comms courses?
Can't be many...
Probably mail order -…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 10:59:57 +1200

My average age may well be close to 45, but I'm pretty confident I'm not an angry old man. I'm really not angry most of the time, and I'm definitely not a man. I've also noticed quite a lot of other not-men on the site.
Of course, I may be…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 09:42:29 +1200

...and there is my evidence!
stacks up nicely...

Nicely played Sir.
I am getting a bit frightened though, he used capital letters... yes CAPITAL LETTERS I tell you, oh the huge manatee.
I kid you not, I had visions of him pounding away on his Fisher-Price keyboard with an maniacal…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 09:33:00 +1200

YOU HAVE NAGGED ME
ABOUT HOW I NEED TO GET MY EVIDENCE,
BUT Ian, DOESN'T HAVE TO

My age has nothing to do with it,

And,
I could suggest that would be Steve's ;)

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 07:59:41 +1200

Cut your shit mate. Had enough of you
Cut.
Your.
Shit.
Mate.

Had.
Enough.
Of.
You.

...and there is my evidence!
stacks up nicely...

Maz

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 07:05:53 +1200

Daman, I was having a go at you, so don't for a second think that we agree.
My point is that we do have the resources, that we do have room, space, ability to take many, many more refugees. Net migration is 50000+, gross figures near 100000/year, so we could…

Daman Saini

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 00:35:54 +1200

My age has nothing to do with it, but when I saw that the average age here is 45. I realised that it is a bunch of old angry men, who cannot get the outcome that they want, and just hate on everything, was shocking.
Just a bunch of old…

Daman Saini

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 00:23:51 +1200

Cut your shit mate. Had enough of you

Daman Saini

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 00:22:07 +1200

Ethics? Never knew there are ethics in blogs?
Most people are just typing from their basements, only ethics they get to learn are when they come out and grab a sandwich from their mother

Daman Saini

Sun, 13 Sept 2015 00:16:34 +1200

"Oh, and by the way, Ian doesn’t do evidence, he is an Artist.
Being an Artist means conveying your meaning in an abstract form, being subjective"

YOU HAVE NAGGED ME ABOUT HOW I NEED TO GET MY EVIDENCE, BUT Ian, DOESN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE, BECAUSE HE IS SUBJECTIVE.

I…

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 20:16:10 +1200

Well, the government do seem keen on paying someone else more money to do a worse job for things the government was doing badly to start with (even if governments of the past managed it well) possibly in order to have someone else to blame – prisons, schools, housing, etc.…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 18:00:05 +1200

I have to say that, as far as I can tell, through factoids and accusations, that we only have available State Houses either in the "wrong place" or in a state of repair close to condemnation so the "ghettoing" will also become privatised, ever heard of Halliburton, Carlyle or Serco?…

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 17:32:09 +1200

I agree ifitweremyhome is nifty, but I checked the gini figures in a few different places (NZ, UK, World Bank) and there result means they either have bad data on this, or they are misinterpreting a high GINI as more equal- either way the result for that aspect is screwy.

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 17:29:44 +1200

Refugees generally go into state houses, so I don't think that there is any ghettoing going on- the will (based on general New Zealand practice) be in mixed neighbourhoods, it is just there are a bunch of people from Syria in the Wellington area already which makes language/ culture easier…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 17:21:35 +1200

"Earlier this week, Mr Woodhouse's spokeswoman had said many of the extra refugees were expected to be transferred from Mangere to Wellington, because of the existing infrastructure and Syrian community in the capital."

Ghetto building?.
Who would have thought that a Government of New Zealand, especially one led by the…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 17:14:40 +1200

12.07% more of a class divide”. What in hades happened here?

In one word... Thatcher.
nb. Her policies ended up here later, like the Rolling Stones albums in the 70s.
Then again, Ayn Rand?.

Steve Barnes

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 17:12:43 +1200

I think ifitweremyhome have a data error, the GINI coefficient for NZ is lower (lower is more equal) than the United Kingdom.

Maybe so, I haven't checked, I'll take your word for it but the site itself...
IfItWereMyHome is a rich source of information that is, otherwise, not…

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 17:05:10 +1200

Here's the thing:

We know that poorer countries are taking more refugees than us.
We know that smaller countries are taking more refugees than us.
We know that countries that turn away migrants are taking more refugees than us.
We know denser populated countries are taking more refugees than us.…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 17:03:17 +1200

*sigh* I take it, from the similar posting history and discourse structures employed, Shannon C is a classmate doing the same Comms assignment?

Nah. They are just the young Nat's kids that hang out with David Farrah at the Blue Light Disco.
Not that there's anything wrong with that I…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 16:55:28 +1200

At least I am trying.

I am finding that more with every post of yours, trying my patience that is...
Oh, and by the way, Ian doesn't do evidence, he is an Artist.
Being an Artist means conveying your meaning in an abstract form, being subjective, rather than offering rehashed…

BenWilson

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 16:33:36 +1200

I don’t think you’ve quite got a full grip on what offering “quotes” and ‘evidence’ constitutes and necessitates.

Yeah, so much so that I think it's a bit mean to continue on the assumption that this is deliberate trolling. I actually think Daman is just someone who really is quite…

chris

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 15:08:15 +1200

I'm glad to hear that David, thanks, I was about to sound the bugle.

Daman Saini

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 14:54:19 +1200

Ha Ha Ha, Funny thing is, I haven’t seen you provide one piece of evidence. At least I am trying. This topic is so new that there is no way any credible study or information can be found, which will be specific to Syria’s refugees. All I can do is…

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 14:48:40 +1200

I think ifitweremyhome have a data error, the GINI coefficient for NZ is lower (lower is more equal) than the United Kingdom.

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Standard%20of%20living/income-inequality.aspx

chris

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 14:36:30 +1200

I thought we were better than that but then…. maybe not.

And this “If New Zealand were your home instead of United Kingdom you would experience 12.07% more of a class divide”. What in hades happened here?

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 14:31:15 +1200

Oblivious to obvious...
Now I’ve provided quotes/ evidence, so don’t cry.

Hmmm.
I don't think you've quite got a full grip on what offering "quotes" and 'evidence' constitutes and necessitates.
Citations; repeatable access to source and context, even as footnotes, really helps your case.
The petulant patronising tone, not-so-much.

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 14:00:14 +1200

At least some of that is the Auckland regional settlement strategy a report on migration and Auckland housing.

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/6E7AFA93-442C-4A82-A9AC-50FC62C385DD/0/Goal6...

While it discusses both migrants and refugees, let's keep in mind that this thread is about refugees, and the report is treating those as separate categories- migrants have a problem with…

chris

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 13:08:25 +1200

All I'm getting there is that migrants encounter the same or similar issues as the general population do and that refugees will most probably encounter the same issues as migrants. See Maz above.

Also you’ve provided no citations for those quotes so who knows where they’ve been. For linking, there…

Daman Saini

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 12:43:42 +1200

This is what I meant, when I talked about where are they going to live, once they are back on their feet
Now I've provided quotes/ evidence, so don't cry.
" Migrants and refugees identified a range of housing-related issues in the Auckland region. These included: • socio-economic and affordability…

Maz

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 12:31:36 +1200

Net migration to NZ was approx 60000 last year. "Where are they all going to live? What will they do? What about the language barrier?"
And we're squabbling about a few hundred refugees; shameful and pathetic. We could take tens of thousands, if we just cut back a little on…

linger

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 11:07:00 +1200

I can use any source I like to gain information. A fallacy of entitlement, if you’re including “any online community” within that range of sources. In a community, you can ask anybody to help you seek information. But the locals may choose to help, or not. Dunno about you, but…

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 09:16:00 +1200

Why is it that everyone here is disputing my views and not going out there and helping ?

You are making an ad hominem attack by assuming we cannot do both.

It is very evident, that you older lot, are constantly hating on younger people and their education, it is…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 08:40:32 +1200

...or is this a one way street?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0WPC-N3UYE

Steve Barnes

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 08:27:19 +1200

Steve, these were not opinions.
But you said "Why is it that everyone here is disputing my views" what are views if not opinions?.
I had collected information from the internet, which one does.The internet is bigger that Kiwiblog and even Yahoo Answers, honest, have a big look.
are specific…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 08:04:45 +1200

I am not as familiar with this topic as some of these people here, they are obviously experts and have been doing this for a while.

So, open your ears and learn. research what you are being told. Then you can debate an issue if you can back up why…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 06:39:24 +1200

HR puff 'n' huff...
...and wonder even if your educated. Attacking the youth and their education is never right, and here you are talking about Syrians, you can’t even respect people from your own country.
Thank you and Goodbye.

Good luck with the 'Communications' course, I hope you get the…

chris

Sat, 12 Sept 2015 04:42:27 +1200

If you’re serious about furthering the discussion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33frRHviFQ

Drawing attention to the same underlying easily forgotten issues:

Per head of population, Australia has accepted about twice as many refugees as New Zealand. Same with the US.

Some reading here:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/without-genuine-consultation-aboriginal-communities-stuck-in-cycle-of-negativity-20150705-gi5rtn.html

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 23:38:33 +1200

Steve, these were not opinions. I had collected information from the internet, which one does. Now I don’t know if there are specific allocated academic journals for this blog that everyone uses? ??
But thank you anyway, you did a good job at least proving useful information, my job was…

Shannon C

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 23:33:19 +1200

My comment is a direct reflection of my views on the situation. I was responding to what I read in the main blog post, there was nothing unethical about what I said or how I conducted myself.

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 23:19:35 +1200

I am not as familiar with this topic as some of these people here, they are obviously experts and have been doing this for a while. And in terms of my education, I can use any source I like to gain information. For this blog, I wanted to find out…

B Jones

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 23:00:21 +1200

If Daman's comments weren't his genuine beliefs, that's trolling, and it's a great way to become unwelcome in online communities real fast.

I can't believe that's third year communications, it reads more like Phil 101 students arguing about the existence of God in the letters page of a student newspaper:…

linger

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 21:41:23 +1200

*sigh* I take it, from the similar posting history and discourse structures employed, Shannon C is a classmate doing the same Comms assignment?
You guys might want to talk to your tutors about the methodology and ethics of conducting participatory research. Most people tend not to like having their buttons…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 21:26:53 +1200

I doubt commenting and proving your facts on a blog is going to do anything, people who are keyboard warriors, need to contribute, by actually helping.
Zing!
Did the impudent student just diss the homework bot?
Very cutting, glasshopper...

Steve Barnes

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 20:29:20 +1200

I was exploring the possibilities and different opinions on this topic, it was part of an assignment, I am a third year coms student. I'd like to thank everyone for their opinions and views. Great discussion. I probably have a lot to learn about this topic.

Thanks !

Stick around…

BenWilson

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 19:36:35 +1200

If we convince enough people to allow more refugees here then we have helped. Conversely, if you convince people not to allow them then you haven't helped. You've blocked help. Why are you doing that?

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 19:31:48 +1200

Why is it that everyone here is disputing my views and not going out there and helping ? I doubt commenting and proving your facts on a blog is going to do anything, people who are keyboard warriors, need to contribute, by actually helping.
As I said earlier, I don't…

BenWilson

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 18:40:08 +1200

Maybe we can first help these refugees learn English so their transition into the work force is easier.

I think that's a very good idea. So, lets start, by getting them here. Then we can teach them some English, the famously most effective way – complete language and cultural immersion.…

BenWilson

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 18:32:52 +1200

Don’t mention the ‘Scottish Thread’!

Is this a patent that I see before me?

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 17:05:27 +1200

IP Nightly...
...you should see what happens when we discuss copyright.
Mate!
Don't mention the 'Scottish Thread'!

Emma Hart

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 17:00:08 +1200

don’t you think we should clean up our backyard first before we go solving other issues?

No. Because that day never comes. We are never DONE fixing social issues.

TracyMac

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 16:49:59 +1200

This image is going around at present – thought it was apposite. From a tweet by @mozesislam09

TracyMac

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 16:42:45 +1200

I 100% agree. It is absolutely absurd – NZ did the right thing then. And this, so much less in comparison, should be a no-brainer. And it probably would be except for the stirring up of paranoia about the "terrorist threat" colouring people's views these days. Also, not just Syria…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 16:30:07 +1200

that a large proportion of Syrian refugees are fluent in English

I can confirm from our trip there a decade ago, fluent in English and usually several other languages as well.
VERY friendly, VERY hospitable, incredibly diverse society and VERY accepting of that diversity.
But we were tourists and treated…

Tom Bennion

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 16:30:01 +1200

The "rock star" economy's rock star refugee policy, etc

Tom Bennion

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 16:26:33 +1200

Neil Finn & Crowded House "Help is Coming" being used to gather funds for refugees.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/sep/11/help-is-coming-how-i-chose-a-forgotten-crowded-house-song-to-help-syrian-refugees

Further shame once they find out what our quota is.

Steve Barnes

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 16:17:15 +1200

Are we talking about settling them in state houses? Or will we try and establish some other deal so they have shelter?

We will not have any State houses by then so the latter will apply, we shall call this... Plan A.
In a state of international emergency, providing assistance…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 15:57:49 +1200

Or will we try and establish some other deal so they have shelter?

We already take in refugees! If we can waste around $40 million (it will be if we change) on a whim and a fancy of Keys flag ,I think we can let some extra people in bearing…

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 15:33:18 +1200

I agree, that war is expensive and the money spent fighting a pointless war can be used to re home people. But language barrier will still be an issue, I’m talking in terms of employment. Maybe we can first help these refugees learn English so their transition into the work…

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 15:29:15 +1200

You're very logical. Must say

Bart Janssen

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 15:19:26 +1200

my opinion

Your opinion ... Steve's data. Your opinion ... Steve's data.

So hard to choose

Bart Janssen

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 15:16:45 +1200

The Dutch immigrants after WWII were white and Christian.

Going by all the straw man arguments and “Winston sez” up thread, despite our supposed commitment to multiculturalism, if you’re non-white and non-Christian, you can fuck right off, according to many. Still.

Yeah that is clearly a factor and probably more…

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 15:05:09 +1200

But we are just assuming the fact that “these people” are highly educated, I don’t doubt that they are, but I doubt all of them are. Are we talking about settling them in state houses? Or will we try and establish some other deal so they have shelter?
In a…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 14:55:29 +1200

I can see that a lot of people are sensitive regarding this topic and obviously hate National. Which is fine.

We are a sensitive lot, you should see what happens when we discuss copyright.
However, I don't think we hate National per se, its just that we can see what…

TracyMac

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 14:54:23 +1200

The Dutch immigrants after WWII were white and Christian.

Going by all the straw man arguments and "Winston sez" up thread, despite our supposed commitment to multiculturalism, if you're non-white and non-Christian, you can fuck right off, according to many. Still.

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 14:53:17 +1200

Hi Steven, I meant that the refugees are in shock because they fled their homes. Also, they will suffer culture shock when they arrive in New Zealand, as most people do anyway, which isn't a big deal as overtime people get used to New Zealand, and how things function.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 14:41:26 +1200

Not sure if this is the right place but recent events brought this to mind.

I'm the son of Dutch parents. My parents came to New Zealand in the early 1950s along with rough 50 000 other people from The Netherlands. Essentially, they were refugees. After the second world war…

Daman Saini

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 12:29:35 +1200

I can see that a lot of people are sensitive regarding this topic and obviously hate National. Which is fine.

Give me few moments here to gather my research and address your concerns.
;)

Steve Barnes

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 10:57:49 +1200

Just picked up on this..We can now rule out that the government will ensure that New Zealand is not under any potential threats.
So the Govt. will not ensure that we are not under any potential threats.
or The Govt. will ensure we are under any potential threats.
Sound like…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 10:52:02 +1200

Where are these people going to work, live.

Most of these people are highly educated, by New Zealand standards and as such will probably create not only their own opportunities but opportunities for others. As to where they will live, I would like to think the authorities will allow them…

Craig Young

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 10:31:05 +1200

This is a brief summary of an article I've just posted on my Gaynz.Com blog, assembled from the Ministry of Immigration's website: http://www.gaynz.com/blogs/redqueen/?p=9935

n the interests of clarity and public transparency, I have decided to provide a brief description of current New Zealand refugee policy.

Refugee policy is contained within…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 11 Sept 2015 08:13:05 +1200

A spokeswoman for Mr Woodhouse said that was to ensure they were not a security risk of ‘character of concern’ before they are allowed in”
We can now rule out that the government will ensure that New Zealand is not under any potential threats.

Oh, c'mon it's Woodhouse you are…

Danielle

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 22:04:40 +1200

Are they going to go on a benefit? There are too many people already abusing it.

I can see you're the compassionate type.

Daman Saini

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 21:58:51 +1200

Nice to see you keep up with research, but my question remains unanswered. Where will they work? and live?
When language becomes a barrier, things can go downhill. But we need to understand that the refugees are in a state of shock, which requires immense care.
There are many opportunities…

Martin Brown

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 19:37:15 +1200

Govt policy and every almost move they make/don't make, reflect their internal polling. You know,focus groups. Quant and qual research. The political bloc that counts ( that wonderful home-owning, government-defining middle-NZ) would seem to be a smug, self-interested bunch living on the remembered grand social bravery of some quite time…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 18:50:05 +1200

But then...

Eighty percent of the world's refugees are hosted in developing countries, which the agency described as a "deep imbalance in international support."

Pakistan hosts the most refugees with 1.7 million. The second and third leading countries to host refugees at the end of 2011 were Iran…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 18:34:55 +1200

This is pretty cool.

Nice, apart from the murdered bit, I thought we were better than that but then.... maybe not.

Steve Barnes

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 18:31:03 +1200

my main concern is their paperwork.

Oh good, glad to know you are concerned.
Where are the statistics which show we have room?
Hang on...
Here ya go...
New Zealand
Population
– June 2015 estimate 4,596,700[6] (123rd)
– 2013 census 4,242,048
– Density 16.8/km2 (205th)
43.6/sq mi
Here…

chris

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 18:29:18 +1200

Our country is similar in size to the UK, with a population of around 80 million they manage to take far more Refugees.
Perhaps the small thing here is more to do with small mindedness and small thinking.
It’s not like we don’t have room.

This site is pretty cool.…

Daman Saini

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 17:30:51 +1200

MMM Steve agrees?

Daman Saini

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 17:14:23 +1200

I think you over complicated my comment about a potential threat, what I meant was that people who do not possess legitimate documents to verify who they really are, or if they are associated with terrorist groups. New Zealand is a peaceful country, and the last thing we need is…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 17:01:00 +1200

I'l be very interested in what others have to say about a potential terrorist threat?

What potential "Terrorist" threat? The one possibly engendered by our pathetic Prime Minister by sending a token force to Iraq, with 160 nannies?, the one that may result from the perceived hatred of all things…

Daman Saini

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 16:45:35 +1200

I'l be very interested in what others have to say about a potential terrorist threat?

Shannon C

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 16:40:51 +1200

I think you have taken my post completely out of context. I’m not talking about funding. I’m talking about making logical and smart decisions. Why should we be called pathetic for not putting these refugees before the issues that concern our own citizens, particularly those concerning children.

Daman Saini

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 16:36:44 +1200

linger

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 16:32:06 +1200

Don’t you think that it is pathetic that we are arguing to put non New Zealand citizens before NZ citizens

No, I think it is pathetic that we are not doing anywhere near enough to help either group, instead preferring to waste time arguing that one group is somehow more…

Shannon C

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 16:23:02 +1200

I don’t agree that New Zealand is “mean spirited” and lazy about helping the worlds vulnerable. NZ is a very charitable country. But what about NZ’s own vulnerable? NZ has issues close to home to deal with. 60,000 kiwi children are living in poverty. We are a first world country…

Daman Saini

Thu, 10 Sept 2015 16:20:08 +1200

I believe that Yes, New Zealand is a smaller country and shouldn’t be forced or have to take in more people than already allocated. But we are still making the effort to provide shelter to refugees. Yes, maybe our government can do a lot better, and are somewhat lazy and…

bob daktari

Wed, 09 Sept 2015 09:39:50 +1200

Our attitude to taking in refugees mimic our attitude to those struggling in NZ... we have become the couldn't care less country or at least thats how it seems – yet so many of us do care and do want our govt to help more

We need to stop feeding…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 09 Sept 2015 09:18:36 +1200

'Flaggards'?

TracyMac

Tue, 08 Sept 2015 23:47:13 +1200

Yeah, when we don't even get halfway to Australia's pitiful standards, we need to look at ourselves. Although the Coalition in Australia is outdoing itself to try and exclude Muslims from their so-humanitarian effort to re-slice their existing quota to include more Syrians.

In NZ, we're happy to think of…

chris

Tue, 08 Sept 2015 16:07:35 +1200

Just as long as they’re not Chinese who are able to afford a house.

They decided to leave Xinjiang, he said, because they were tired of being harassed by Chinese authorities, who, he contended, targeted him simply because he was Muslim. “We need to live like humans, not like animals,”…

Public Address

Tue, 08 Sept 2015 16:07:35 +1200

Discussion from blog post.