Example: somebody in this thread passes on their understanding of the…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4264123a11.html

Finn Tame Iti just won on appeal…

"They're fucked" doesn't mean a lot to me at this stage, except that it is very hard to win against a police force that is hell bent on demonising you.

Personally I'm not so much interested in the decision of the court when it does eventually go to trial, but…

Innocent until proven guilty.

Quite right. But we do have a process for establishing innocence or guilt, so I'm fairly keen on letting that process run in the absence of any public proof of wrongdoing on either side.

For the most part the public response has been fairly measured, but…

I think we have to be very careful about conflating the actions of any particular individuals who have not…

Remember:

Bail hearings have much more flexible rules of evidence than prosecutions – i.e. hearsay and therefore supposition can be…

he has recollections of near-identical operations around Levin during the 1990s when dealing with offenders believed to be armed and dangerous: roadblocks, locking down an entire small township, armed police in black, photographs of vehicle occupants etc.

I would like to know for sure if there has been locking down…

Nobody has to trust the veracity of what he's saying – this is the internet, after all – but it's an interesting thought experiment to consider the current situation from that perspective.

The police evidence from surveillance and intercepts is copious and detailed. I do think that regardless of the…

In regard to criticism of some of the tactics employed by the police, I would note that from what I…

I clearly remember seeing "Smith's Dream" for the first time when I was 15 or so, and the terrible fear and dread at the idea of an…

The Pakeha left seems pretty much in agreement that the STA…

I do not believe he has anything to do with terrorisim to any degree as all of his actions to date have been nonviolent upon any person. Guns…

Apparently the Attorney General has undertaken to have his decision out re ST charges this week.

And again to "ThoughtSpur", what are the Tuhoe tactics you disagree with?

I think it is pretty damning. Of all the questionable things that the police did, the taking of photos is the part that I cant stomach. I know they have done it before but that doesn't make…

What Tuhoe tactics are you referring to?

I was wondering what would happen if someone, say winston peters was to give the PM a slap in the face.

I think she could take him.

A lot better than her husband could anyway.

"Someone, somewhere will defend a terrorist as a freedom fighter. I'd rather be called a terrorist than a pedophile."

To the first point I agree. I quoted the excellent book Unspeak on my blog recently

'Asymmetric warfare' is the term employed by the US Military for fighting people…

Didn't Phil Goff cap payouts recently?

No.

I suspect you're thinking of the Prisoners and Victims Claims Act. It doesn't apply to this situation.

And in the situations it does apply it doesn't limit payouts.

Naming someone a 'terrorist' in New Zealand should be viewed with ULTIMATE gravity. It is the worst appellation you can assign to an individual in the modern world. When a government does it then every other government listens.

Someone, somewhere will defend a terrorist as a freedom fighter. I'd rather…

When travelling to the states they do ask about arrests not only convictions – so even if they drop charges now none of these guys are off to Disneyland anytime soon.

Since they were arrested on firearms rather than terrorism charges (of which none have yet been forthcoming) I think…

Popped along to the Greens last night & Keith said the SIS briefing was nowhere near as…

I have a feeling that the New Zealand taxpayer is looking at the biggest compensation payout in its history.

Really? Bigger than the Tainui payout? Bigger than the Ngai Tahu claim?

No-one knows what the details of the charges against the recent accused…

Could it be that the police were trying to embarrass the Govt. for what they were doing to Rickards and Dewar et al?

Well, the actions against Rickards and Dewar etc were taken by the police, and would have been signed off by Broad most likely. The government didn't interfere…

For the purposes of this Act, a terrorist act is carried out if any 1 or more of the following occurs:
(a) planning or other preparations to carry out the act, whether it is actually carried out or not:
(b) a credible threat to carry out the act, whether it…

Michael – my understanding of the Christchurch raid was that police were looking for a person, rather than searching for evidence. You don't need a warrant to knock on someone's door and ask if Tame is there.

Yes – and Frances Mountier reported that the police were from Wellington and…

..specially modified to shoot kumara over large distances. A kind of power planting device for those steeped Urewera terraces.

NEXT...

If I was Tame's Lawyers, I'd say he was putting a perfomance art theatre troupe together for special Maori celebrations. A kind of dramatically licensed period piece complete with old guns and flags and mock battles and shit.

Like the traditional period grenade launcher he was trying to purchase?

Like this wedding

Shot gun wedding
10:32am 5 December 2003

Traffic was stopped on Christchurch this morning and armed police called out as a `shot gun wedding� took place in the old stock yards off…

I do think TV3 were just lucky. The TV3 offices are nearby and…

There is a lot of trust for the cops to have dotted the i & crossed the t.
But then the raid in Christchurch no warrent but wanted to pursue a raid anyway & I do want to nail the TV3 conspiracy for the early morning raid. Although TV3 are…

Moreover, the trial would have to occur in the High Court.

Could the main intent of the warrants and evidence collection be to have Tuhoe, Unite, Save Happy Valley, and other groups added to the terrorist list?

OK, that sounds monstrously stupid, fair enough, but if our media had been a little more credulous it __might…

But even if…

Unless that domestic organisation is the Government, or the act also involves terrorising civilians, then yes.

So if your organisation blows up McDonald's stores (after hours with noone in them) to protest their suppliers' overfishing of Hoki stocks – that's terrorism. But if they do the same to local fish…

What recourse does anyone have for getting their group de-listed as a terrorist organisation?

*They can request the PM to revoke the designation;
*They can wait for three years until it is due to expire and seek to be heard in the High Court on the application that it be…

The facts, when the come out, will be important: what if anything was planned in Tame's wananga?

and if the answer is not "nothing", how long before the phrase "state-sponsored terrorism" appears?

But seriously,

What recourse does anyone have for getting their group de-listed as a terrorist organisation?

One more:…

I'd imagine the legal call was whether to include the TSA on the warrant, or just leave it with other acts.

I'm pretty sure Broad has actually said they took the kind of legal advice Graeme has mentioned before including the TSA charges.

I had to read parts of that about three times to get my head around it

Well I didn't do a very good job then did I? :-)

Conspiracy to murder carries a maximum of 10 years' imprisonment, participation in a terrorist organisation 14 years', but I doubt that's the…

Can I ask – what's the advantage of laying charges under this Act? Lets say hypothetically, the plot was to kill someone. Conspiracy to commit murder already exists. What advantage would there be…