Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: KidsCan comes back

Tony Auckram

Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:47:26 +1300

Kidscan is in Dunedin tonight collecting 50% of the gold coin donation for Dunedin's Big Night in at our new stadium. My children were recipient's of at least two pairs of shoes Kidscan dish out to low decile schools (as an aside I would dispute the description "quality" shoes in…

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:47:46 +1200

The Howlett Foundation sounds like community service. Doing good for all the wrong reasons, but still doing some good.

Is there a Charity Audit Authority, beyond finacial statements? A measure of needs addressed, as opposed to works done(which may not be required).

Thinking of "Fairtrade" here as well. Moving from…

Elizabeth Sanderson

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:33:47 +1200

Hi russell – and yet – still NO response re: the Doug Howlett money go round? Also no response re: the fact that the are trying to convince the public to view only certain costs to make their return on investment look better than 18%? No other charity does this.

Russell Brown

Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:05:28 +1200

UPDATE: The following paragraphs are an update to correct a mis-interpretation by Rick of Oxfam’s figures at http://bit.ly/V1mG4. Rick had assumed that the “where the money goes” table added up to the 78% programme spend referred to at the bottom of the table. Oxfam advises that those figures comprise its…

Glenn Pearce

Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:54:24 +1200

I merely meant that as it is so difficult to obtain funding for these, they must have been pretty good at convincing funders to do exactly that.

To the tune of $770k in fact, very impressive.

A quick google and you'll find many many applications and awards from charitable trusts…

bronwyn

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:35:17 +1200

Steve – I didn't mean to imply that KidsCan were applying for funds for programmes and then were using it for salaries and running costs – I merely meant that as it is so difficult to obtain funding for these, they must have been pretty good at convincing funders to…

Steve Curtis

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:27:11 +1200

Bronwyn, youll will find that most funders require you to stick to the letter of your application. So KC will have specifically asked for money for salaries and running costs.
I checked online for Pelorus Trust who are a pokie trust and they more or less say in general we…

martin murphy

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:58:39 +1200

I dont think this charity is different to many others. They simply dont want to reveal their true efficiencies. NZ law allows this concealment by not requiring this information to be made public under the Charities Act. Ammend the Act and bring NZ into line with other countries. There are…

bronwyn

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:14:42 +1200

If I'm reading this correctly you have donors who have given $770k to the charity and specifically said "but don't spend it on the kids"

Not quite – more like "please spend this on making sure you have suitably experienced and professional to run these programmes that are paid at…

stephen walker

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:39:26 +1200

hello Rick,

thanks for the response to various questions and the overall summary. i hope everyone appreciates all the time and effort you are putting in on a voluntary basis.

i may have this wrong, but it seems to me that you want people to recognise that you have three…

Martin Taylor

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:19:06 +1200

Fair point, that's a bit more reasonable. Looking at the lease cost, it was quite a bit more than that at purchase but still a big discount over new.

Heather W.

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:22:26 +1200

I assume it is listed under motor vehicle expenses. The VW Tourareg (for Invitation Only Events) is listed on carjam.co.nz as 2004 model with a Turners valuation of $32805 (slightly less than cost of the total term of lease). The Ford Territory is a 2005 (KidsCan).

Description under lease and…

Martin Taylor

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:57:27 +1200

No mention of the $150,000 VW Touareg leased during the year. Not a good look and certainly makes you wonder about how gold-plated some of the other expenses might be.

Well done getting this issue aired, both Russell and Rick for a fairly detailed response but, as the comments indicate,…

Elizabeth Sanderson

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:48:18 +1200

So in summary I interpret Rick's comments as being "if you ignore our inconvenient costs like wages, costs of events etc, it turns our charities poor performance (20%), into great performance (94.5%). Awesome – using this approach means that there is no such thing as an underperforming charity anymore -…

Elizabeth Sanderson

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:08:25 +1200

re: Doug Howlett Foundation. Does anyone know what happeneded to the $2,800 paid for the website? If Doug is living overseas and Julie and Karl are no longer working for the Doug Howlett Foundation then where did this money go? Is the website underconstruction? What if any work has been…

Cartwright Family Trust Cartwright Family Trust

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:43:37 +1200

Good afternoon Russell, thank you for your very informative website. Each year my family support 3 charities by giving away the interest earned from our families perpetual investment fund. This year we decided to give 3 charities $10,000 each. However, in light of what I have read here, our own…

Elizabeth Sanderson

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:55:43 +1200

Hi Rick – well done. You nailed it. I was trying to get my head around Rick's 'interpretation' of income vs expenditure with not much success. Facts are (as you pointed out) you cannot separate the convenient income from the inconvenient income, nor can you separate the convenient costs e.g.:…

Elizabeth Sanderson

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:10:51 +1200

Something else as well... When adding the in kind donations to the level of services delivered to the children, you should compare apples with apples. How can we the public ever know whether or not the $760,000 worth of inkind donations Kidscan claimed was received for the programmes includes ONLY…

Martin Roberts

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:56:26 +1200

I do think Rick breezes through the fact of the events not actually raising a lot of money once costs came out.
I'm not completely sure that everyone knew that was how the events worked, and I'm relieved that the trust has moved on from the focus on events.

Other…

Martin Roberts

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:53:50 +1200

The number I consider most important is the ratio of impact to donated resources. The actual cash movements are secondary – only drug smugglers and terrorists start charities with the primary purpose of moving money around.

There seems to be a growing discussion in the charity sector on quantifying impacts.…

Elizabeth Sanderson

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:54:27 +1200

Something else I noted too. Rick was at pains to repreatedy make reference to certain costs which "are not intended for programme delivery" such as grants received for administration costs, when evaluating the percentage returned to the children. The thing is this. Every other charity in NZ has the ability…

Elizabeth Sanderson

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:17:10 +1200

Careful anaylsis of Ricks comments leaves me with more questions than answers. For example – what about the Howlett Foundation? Doug's comments suggest that it was Julie and Karl who ran the Foundation. That being the case how do they explain knowingly taking approx $40,000 in salaries and only raising…

J Debreceny

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:47:47 +1200

Congrats to Rick for participating in the discussion. It's not often that someone takes the risk of joining in a debate like this.

I suspect Kids Can works at a very different level from many community groups, and that its staff are probably better paid than many in the community…

Rachel Prosser

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:28:42 +1200

Thank Rick – there's a lot of information there.

Also, good on you for taking on a voluntary role in a charitable trust. It isn't easy – there's a lot of accountability which goes with it (and that all takes time). Grant funders want copies and evidence and that all…

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:54:11 +1200

If I'm reading this correctly you have donors who have given $770k to the charity and specifically said "but don't spend it on the kids"

It'd be the other way around.

You'd apply to some grant organisation or whatever for "1 administrative staff member for X time", or "2 computers"…

Simon Pound

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:53:52 +1200

Hi Rick

Thanks for responding Rick – -lots of words there and carefully selected examples – -but there are some basic questions unanswered – -The Howlett trust money go-round is fascinating and unaddressed- and by running Ltd Liability companies I can't understand how that makes it more transparent.
Surely if…

Russell Brown

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:40:40 +1200

I do think Rick breezes through the fact of the events not actually raising a lot of money once costs came out.

I'm not completely sure that everyone knew that was how the events worked, and I'm relieved that the trust has moved on from the focus on events.

Anecdotally,…

Russell Brown

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:32:40 +1200

Also the numbers don't seem to add up $331, 187 + $34,550 = $770,901 ? Or I may have missed something there, should that second figure be $334,550

I wondered that too, but I'd rather wait for word from the author before changing it.

Glenn Pearce

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:28:12 +1200

I'm interested is this "tagging" of donations for admin purposes only.

If I'm reading this correctly you have donors who have given $770k to the charity and specifically said "but don't spend it on the kids"

Also the numbers don't seem to add up $331, 187 + $34,550 = $770,901…

Richard Kyle

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:22:12 +1200

"If you're going to include the 'in kind' support, which seems fair enough" ...

Quite often in-kind isn't counted or used in this way as the value of in-kind is subjective.

Thanks Rick ..for responding, engaging and most of all volunteering

Russell Brown

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:15:23 +1200

Not 'spend' or 'allocated' ' but 'available'. The spin being that 85 % of money raised by telethon will be going on their programmes.
In virtually every metric the choice of words gives a far better impression than is actually the case

Which is fine and fair comment.

The point…

Steve Curtis

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:09:33 +1200

So Mr Shera is an early riser means its all OK.

If some cant see spin in such comments as 'high protein low sugar' muesli bars ? Since they use standard branded merchandise Ive yet to see one muesli bar that isnt 25% sugar and the average is 33%

This…

Russell Brown

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:46:52 +1200

This is quite a piece of work , designed to mislead, by an expensive spin doctor

Both wrong and very unfair.

Whatever you think of the trust or Rick's account of its operation, bear in mind that Rick is an unpaid volunteer as chair.

He has nonetheless fronted repeatedly over…

Eddie Clark

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:37:17 +1200

Steve, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but your last sentence is not fair and, it seems to me, baseless:

– how do you know Mr Shera is an "expensive spin doctor"? My understanding is that he's an unpaid chair. And one can't throw the derisive term…

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:34:35 +1200

Thanks for posting that Rick. I thought most of it was fair. This however I'd take exception with:

KidsCan Income
Total income $1,953,056
Less income tagged or not contributed for programmes ($770,901)
Equals income available for programmes (Y) $1,182,155
Programme delivery
Cost of programmes as shown in accounts $357,289
Plus…

Steve Curtis

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:19:57 +1200

There are so many loopholes in this that you could drive a truck through, just a few for starters..

.. 85 cents in every dollar donated by the 'general public'.
So all the corporate donations dont count ?
So what was the total they are referring to from the general…

Craig Wearne

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:16:56 +1200

And.....boom shuker
I am not about to disect Rick Shera's figures, mainly because I don't really give a toss. Maybe Rick can be allowed to get back to running the charity and continue to do something while the rest of us sit back and pat ourselves on the back for…

Russell Brown

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:16:34 +1200

Thanks, Rick.

But nothing about the Howlett Trust?

Public Address

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:16:34 +1200

Discussion from blog post.