Here is where I do my semi-regular rant about poor Cookie Monster now being forced to sing 'cookies are a sometimes food'. He's fucking COOKIE MONSTER.

Oh no! Don't tell me that. I loved him and Orinoco because of their excess – what a way to spoil it.

Very very…

One Flew Over The Cookie's Nest.

But Chief, they're all Sesameal Crackers in there...

she's not wrong.

Yeah, I know.

I was just imagining Cookie Monster after a lobotomy, shuffling slowly forward, saying "Cookies... are a... sometimes... food...", and then winking.

Here is where I do my semi-regular rant about poor Cookie Monster now being forced to sing 'cookies are a sometimes food'. He's fucking COOKIE MONSTER.

I really hope that that was a scene from
Monsterpiece Theatre presents: One Flew Over The Cookie's Nest.

Otherwise, another small part of me…

Here is where I do my semi-regular rant about poor Cookie Monster now being forced to sing 'cookies are a sometimes food'. He's fucking COOKIE MONSTER.

I really hope that that was a scene from
Monsterpiece Theatre presents: One Flew Over The Cookie's Nest.

Otherwise, another small part of me…

If David saying the average consumption of petrol and diesel in this country is of the order of 9.something litres / 100km and the technology (ie cars and trucks) with a modern fleet can get it down the 4.5 L /100km,

just seems to…

Haywood had the answer. Get rid of the gas guzzlers.

and

IIRC his answer was a bit more nuanced than that

Then

If David saying the average consumption of petrol and diesel in this country is of the order of 9.something litres / 100km and the technology (ie cars and…

You clearly have not be re-organised, reviewed, restructured or shunted into masses of mystifying 'metrics' nearly enough.

I mean a good, *constructive* difference. :)

(I recall at my last job a manager wrote what they called 'a matrix' describing some way in which we were all to do something. You…

As I went through the economics, I touched on the thought that the company car wouldn't be necessary any more

Nor, indeed, most office managers, team leaders, and so forth. Plus the time freed up from all those pointless meetings can be spent in all sorts of gainful activities. (ETA:…

The firm winds up getting better productivity through giving people flexibility, the staff feel valued and don't leave as soon as a better offer eventuates.

Here's an article on home-working, to continiue to bang that particular drum. It's a shame the most relevant person they could think of to illustrate…

Lets not upset the poor fellow by reducing his considered answers to slogans.

Two wheels good! Four wheels bad!
Two wheels good! Four wheels bad!
Two wheels good! Four wheels bad!
Two wheels good! Four wheels bad!
.
.
.
.
What?

I don't see how managers make that much difference.

You clearly have not be re-organised, reviewed, restructured or shunted into masses of mystifying 'metrics' nearly enough. (Or you could try hosting a decent-sized tapeworm :))
Managers can make a difference.

The Street shoulda kept Lefty. The knda guy you wanna know about, if you know what I mean...

That Lefty is yer classic Made-Man ...
a real fingerman!

But management doesn't 'produce' anything!

Must...resist...urge...to...start...singing...The Internationale

Nope, too late...

Hideous in their apotheosis
The kings of the mine and of the rail
Have they ever done anything other
Than steal work?

But management doesn't 'produce' anything!

Well supposedly, "organisation" of others' efforts

which you could do if they were more.. productive. :)

I'm just about ready to show reels of the old Eastern European cartoon hit Worker and Parasite.

You're just bitter 'cause Elmo gets the chicks.

Dude, Bert and Ernie are where it's at. But I don't think they're that into the chicks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGPwM2bwnD0

If you slashed management numbers

which you could do if they were more.. productive. :)

Here is where I do my semi-regular rant about poor Cookie Monster now being forced to sing 'cookies are a sometimes food'. He's fucking COOKIE MONSTER.

Oh no! Don't tell me that. I loved him and Orinoco because of their excess – what a way to spoil it.

No, Elmo is the true evil. That little fucker needs to go down.

You're just bitter 'cause Elmo gets the chicks.

I bags the cookie monster – what a life.

Here is where I do my semi-regular rant about poor Cookie Monster now being forced to sing 'cookies are a sometimes food'. He's fucking COOKIE MONSTER. What's with him giving us responsible diet tips? (Ahem. Peter Ashby isn't still here, is…

I see where you're going but I already have dibs on The Grouch. Choose quickly, no one wants to get stuck with Big Bird.

Heh, if Oscar's taken guess I'm stuck with Elmo.

the value of putting more lines to more places

Connecting "circle" services that intersect the radial rail tracks seem most likely to be bus routes. At least regional transport planning is becoming more focused on public transport than on cars – though that brings a clash with the neanderthal in…

Japan does some things that would be great to see here (but I'd not import the little men with the white gloves squeezing you into the train in the morning, or the sake-stinking salarymen who fall asleep on you on the…

The workers are the ones who, like, do shit.

Funnily enough they're the ones who get blamed any time the righties talk about "productivity" – perhaps you've outed management's chum's as secret commies.

But Transport Minister Steven Joyce balked at the cost and called the proposal "simplistic". He said he agreed young people needed improved skills…

Talking about connecting A, B and C whilst servicing the need of the CBD and sneering in passing at the misfortunes of ACT... what is this, Sesame Street?

I see where you're going but I already have dibs on The Grouch. Choose quickly, no one wants to get stuck with…

...what is this, Sesame Street?

oh well, there's always some muppet trying to promote inner city communities...

Poor quality management and governance is a major reason for our nation's low productivity.

I don't see how managers make that much difference. The workers are the ones who, like, do shit.

Haywood had the answer. Get rid of the gas guzzlers.

IIRC his answer was a bit more nuanced than that. Lets not upset the poor fellow by reducing his considered answers to slogans.

For an…

Similarly, staggered working hours: I've worked in large firms where your arse had…

Brainless people in charge of things once again.

Furthermore, the high quality transport network can be extended into the areas where B and C live.

If this were indicated by any sort of staged transport plan to extend high quality services to the majority of Auckland, we wouldn't be having most of this discussion.

Creating half-arsed transport corridors…

Being stuck in a traffic jam on a bus is qualitatively worse than being stuck in the same jam in your car.

I don't agree. In a bus you can read or mess about on your phone or whatever. It's not safe to do that in a car if you're…

Haywood had the answer. Get rid of the gas guzzlers.

Simple.

ACT now!!! Hide Rodney!!

Buses get stuck in traffic jams caused by cars

Angus, do you understand what the word "busway" means?

Because NZ employers live in the dark ages and fret that they aren't getting their pound of flesh out of the serfs if they aren't at their desks 8:30-5:00

Poor quality management and governance is a major reason for our nation's low productivity. Sadly that includes managing staff's time and…

Applicant A will live on…

what's wrong with the brand spanking new busway?

It stops at the bridge and the buses have to queue up with the cars. Having one clipon 2/3 transit and 1/3 pedestrian cycle would solve this at minimal cost. A congestion charge would remove the resulting congestion *and* finance better public…

...staggered working hours, or working from home?

Because NZ employers live in the dark ages and fret that they aren't getting their pound of flesh out of the serfs if they aren't at their desks 8:30-5:00, with 10 minutes exactly for morning and afternoon tea, plus half an hour for…

Furthermore, on the subject of North Shore Rail – what's wrong with the brand spanking new busway?

Buses get stuck in traffic jams caused by cars. Being stuck in a traffic jam on a bus is qualitatively worse than being stuck in the same jam in your car.

And with the 'savings' surely there'll be plenty left for ongoing maintenamce, renewal and investment in the Whangarei and Gisborne railways as well.

As a thought exercise I am going to ask us to imagine we are Wellingtonians* in an…

Possibly since Symonds Street is a gentler grade. On very odd occasions I have seen a truck break down trying to make it up the…

However, what public transport does particularly well (especially rail) is increase the number of people who can still get to work…

So why don't you move out to the Airport? That would make your Wife's commute so much easier.

We did. But the point is that if I couldn't work from home then there would be no place that didn't result in a long commute for one of us – and…

how can you reduce car travel by increasing the intensity of an urban centre whose predominant modes of access are motorways?

What Ben said...

Or, to greatly simplify the argument, if X number of people currently travel to work in the city and I build a PT system so that…

Second half of above comment still applies though – how can you reduce car travel by increasing the intensity of an urban centre whose predominant modes of access are motorways?

By making the alternatives to cars more viable. I'm not really following your point at all. Yes, more alternatives will…

Head slap moment, I have been a bit thick. Of course having two ends pointed south will double the capacity of trains from the south, because they can come in both ends. Unless there was demand for 20 trains from the Shore that extension would not increase capacity by…

Working closer to home is good too, especially if you live on the Shore, come to think of it, is there any other reason to live on the Shore?.

Working closer to home isn't always possible, especially in households with two or more workers. My office is an Albany and…

It's all about the coffee breaks. Life isn't much fun having coffee at home and gossiping to the walls about what happened on Nurse Jackie last night. That behaviour earns a trip to the reeducation farm.

The internet was invented so home workers like me can gossip. Problem solved.

Seriously…

Joyce has shown consistently that he won't pay to rehabilitate rail, preferring to diminish the size and utility of the network so that Quinn is forced to play with one hand tied behind his back as he tries to grow KR's income and share of the freight market.

Keep an…

Wellington, May 28 NZPA – Former ACT Party deputy leader Ken Shirley will become chief executive of the Road Transport Forum when former National Party cabinet minister Tony Friedlander retires from the lobby group in July.

There must be a fair percentage whack of workers in the CBD who don't actually need to all be sitting at their desks in the same rabbit hutch as their…

For those who have access to a hardcopy of today's Herald, there is a letter from Joyce on the letters page, in which he responds to criticism of his 'big truck' policy.

Sounds just like a Tony Friedlander write-up with a ministerial letterhead.

Let's say we build a North Shore Line. Then we can continue some of those trains through to the North Shore, but that doesn't help us get that many more trains to Britomart from the south, west and eastern lines. In fact, 20 trains in is about one every…

Letters page does not appear to be available online.

We should get a monorail like the one on Sydney. It's futuristic, reliable and has revolutionised public transport.

The Sydney monorail is a joke. Last I checked it was $4.90 for a single ride, way more expensive than trains and buses. While there has been an attempt to integrate monorail…

In which case it's back to the beginning of the post...

Does a voter actually control a pollie?

Depends how big the voter's wallet is, dunnit?

Only takes a "good" multiple-fatality crash involving a truck that didn't need to be on the road before the penny-pinching attitude of Joyce on matters rail becomes very, very short-sighted. Especially since road safety is also his bailiwick. I wonder if there'd be grounds to sue for failure to adequately…

One of the main reasons why we will need the CBD rail tunnel in the future is so that we can increase frequencies on the existing rail network, and also so that we can run an Airport Line.

From…

Incidentally, does anyone know the reason why port bound trucks, rather than using the expensive motorway built for them, tend to drive up symonds St.

Presuming you meant down and also assuming they are actually going to the Port the first thing that jumps to mind is that they are…

Our dishwasher doesn't seem to have a 'poach' setting, Angus (that will teach us to to buy cheap appliances). What do you recommend?

Lots of very well wrapped about tin foil, otherwise the coffee starts tasting of salmon.

How does that increase the number of trains on other lines that can use Britomart, though?

It mostly doesn't.

However in each scenario you have an equivalent pattern. One stream of trains approaching from the east to disembark their passengers before departing to the west with another stream of trains…

Bennett on matters beneficiary.

On matters beneficiary, I'd call Pull-ya Benefit more hypocritical than short-sighted. The "Fuck youse, I've got mine and now I'm going to kick out from the top the ladder that I climbed" attitude.

Collins on matters criminal.

I giggled. Rather hard.

Joyce on matters rail becomes very, very short-sighted.

Not just him.
Bennett on matters beneficiary.
Tolley on matters education.
Collins on matters criminal.
Brownlee on matters resource.
And Key on anything.

This political sensitivity is perhaps why there was a no show from the regional director of the NZTA, who had been scheduled to speak as well, but pulled out at the last minute for fear of being expected to discuss Government policy in the area. Snort.

I wouldn't be at…

By way of contrast, the 214 km Gisborne – Napier railway is at threat of closure for its inability to generate net revenue sufficient to cover the annual line maintenance and renewal cost of $2 million
...
may well allow Government to leave the decision on mothballing = closure of…

By way of contrast, the 214 km Gisborne – Napier railway is at threat of closure for its inability to generate net revenue sufficient to cover the annual line maintenance and renewal cost of $2…

Incidentally, does anyone know the reason why port bound trucks, rather than using the expensive motorway built for them, tend to drive up symonds St.

Because they want to kill university students.

I've long maintained that mid-Symonds should have been reduced to 30kph and two lanes once the motorway extension…

One line mentioned as facing closure is Northland

Nnnnnnoooooooooo...........sob ...sob.

Given that reportedly a lot of the track is so under-maintained that trains are reduced to walking pace, it's not surprising. Joyce has shown consistently that he won't pay to rehabilitate rail, preferring to diminish the size and utility of…

Note how the sun moves across the sky and casts pretty shadows...

The earth's rotation must be increased by 10x its present speed when they build that "interchange" for the shadows to move that quickly.
They must have a hotline to the celestial bus/sun controller.
Well one good thing, the…

Only if it links back to the Western Line, though. Otherwise it's just two tracks going to a single line that doesn't link to any other part of the network.

Or it is double tracked all the way out to Albany (long skinny loop) or forms a branched loop somewhere…

$2000 for a dishwasher? I hope it cooks breakfast!

Poached salmon.

Like others, I really encourage you to go read Joshua's many detailed and illustrated posts about it, as you seem interested in the…

Also, how would a rail loop encourage people who can't use it to the CBD?

By make getting around the CBD a lot easier, by providing transport that doesn't rely on crowded city streets, you make the CBD a more attractive place to be.

Only if it links back to the Western Line, though. Otherwise it's just two tracks going to a single line that doesn't link to any other part of the network.

Or it is double tracked all the way out to Albany (long skinny loop) or forms a branched loop somewhere…

Incidentally, does anyone know the reason why port bound trucks, rather than using the expensive motorway built for them, tend to drive up symonds St.

huh? Driving up Symonds St is driving away from the port. The hill slopes down to the water, after all.
I've seen plenty of trucks…

Hasn't been too bad a week down here. A truck and trailer flipping over at 5am in the morning yesterday and blocking – completely – (well done that lad!)

didn't seem a great mix carrying mail and highly flammable substances in the same load....

Architecture porn...…

For the price of the $1.4 billion Waterview Connection the government could buy every household in Auckland a $2000 dishwasher.

$2000 for a dishwasher? I hope it cooks breakfast!

Does anyone else keep reading the title of this post wondering why John Roughan is sacred?

Scarred, for me

Importantly for PoA though, they've opened an inland container park in Otahuhu, connected of course by rail. This is helping take some of the burden off the inner city motorway network, and improve reliability of PoA services.

Otahuhu? Don't you mean Wiri? Or is the container park separate from the…

and it's a beat-up '92 Corolla.

maybe this was the cause of her problems, old cars like that are easier to break into and more likely to be without an alarm.

I believe Auckland's employment patterns are considerably more distributed than they were 30 years ago.

Yes, I think it…

Angus, again I cast my mind to Melbourne which has a much bigger port right next to the CBD and manages fine. It's fine because they keep expanding all kinds of capacity, roads, rail, light rail, etc. It's no surprise that ports end up next to cities – more accurate…

Moving the port's a non-starter. The cost of trying to find enough land to viably take over as a container park means it's never going to happen, especially given that it must, by definition, be coastal land. It must also be flat, accessible by road, and preferably able to be…

Excuse me it I am incorrect again, but I have always assumed that the biggest congestion problem with Auckland stemmed from the proximity of the CBD (with its rush hour) to both the port and SH1/the bridge which are vital to commerce. There are many possible solutions to this including…

Spaced

Well, if we're talking 'spaced', then surely the episode where Tim and Daisy go for a night out?

"spark up a big fatty McGratty, head up to Camden on the tube, find the nearest indie pub with an eclectic juke box and drink until we: a) fall over, or…

I still enjoy driving in London. The traffic is far denser but as everybody is driving defensively you can nip in and out of traffic with ease, people just share that space so effectively.

I really noticed that during my last trip to London in 2001. We were being let…

Turning the Onehunga branch into a loop that crosses to the Airport and then links to the Manukau branch would open up many options, including a train from Hamilton via the airport.

Not to mention airport to everywhere else on the train network.

Tunneling westward makes sense because rail would need to follow the northern motorway and that means crossing to Birkenhead which is west of Britomart. This would double the number of tracks out of Britomart and thus double the capacity with this new capacity coming from the Northshore.

Only if it…

Excuse me it I am incorrect again, but I have always assumed that the biggest congestion problem with Auckland stemmed from the proximity of the CBD (with its rush hour) to both the port and SH1/the bridge which are…

One line mentioned as facing closure is Northland

Nnnnnnoooooooooo...........sob ...sob.

...tunnelling solely to get to the Shore simply means that it doesn't take that third, but it also doesn't add to the existing lines.

Tunneling westward makes sense because rail would need to follow the northern motorway and that means crossing to Birkenhead which is west of Britomart. This…

So, who is to benefit by Mr Joyce's mega trucks, it certainly will not be the majority of the population, so who is it?

...

there is money and if National plays their game no doubt Big Trucking will line the coffers of the "I'm all right Jack, fuck you"…

How long ago? All the lines have improved dramatically, and from memory in July about 86% of all services were within five minutes of scheduled time.

It's been 18 months since she stopped working, but I don't think she had even tried catching one in to work for several months…

And when I were a lad, people had to go all the way to London to have the experience of being off their 'eads on the Tube.

Tim: Where are you?
Mike: Err, Sheffield.
Tim: What are you doing in Sheffield?
Mike: Fell asleep on the tube.
Tim: The tube…

it was too unreliable, and you can't tolerate that when you have to get to work.
Man, are you guys so not Italian :-)

Or unaware of many of the best traditions of the working peoples

And if an Italian is late for work it ain't the fault…

[edit] It also shows how much more capacity the CBD tunnel would allow.

Angus, another hitch…

FWIW, my wife used the Western line to Britomart. It was perfectly good for getting home, but not sufficient for getting to work – it was too unreliable

How long ago? All the lines have improved dramatically, and from memory in July about 86% of all services were within five…

it was too unreliable, and you can't tolerate that when you have to get to work.

Man, are you guys so not Italian :-)

Putting a line from Britomart to the Shore would increase the number of tracks leading out of Britomart by 100% (doubling its capacity).

Uh, no. Unless the Shore line was tunnelled out through the far end of Britomart, it would have to use the same two tracks for entry/exit as…

Instead we have the incumbent chimp calling the (for once united) supercity candidates loony for supporting rail over his beloved asphalt truck-heaven holiday highways.

Big Trucking should be careful what it wishes for. It might actually get it.

Sure, the politics aren't easy in such a road and car based culture, but a good political leader should be able to steer this through ok.

Instead we have the incumbent chimp calling the (for once united) supercity candidates loony for supporting rail over his beloved asphalt truck-heaven holiday highways.

I think around 3000 people a day board a train at Papakura station. Let's say those people drive…

A supercity is a big diverse electorate, most of whom cannot access the rail network and will be asked to pay for this anyways.

Sure, the politics aren't easy in such a road and car based culture, but a good political leader should be able to steer this through ok.…

Back then you'd see High Court Judges – not sure if his honour David…

Let's say the CBD tunnel allows eight-car trains going at 2 minute frequencies each way. That's 60 trains per hour that could access say Midtown station. I'm not…

You're talking about a whole new train line, going from South to West? Is there a proven demand for this?

I mean like people would go to a stop at Mt Eden/Grafton and then link bus into the city and yes I do think there might be some demand…

The CBD tunnel is needed for many many reasons, perhaps the biggest being that unless we build it we can't ever expand the rail sytem beyond its current extent.

Angus raises some interesting points, though I think…

I still enjoy driving in London. The traffic is far denser but as everybody is driving defensively you can nip in and out of traffic with ease, people just share that space so effectively.

I really noticed that during my last trip to London in 2001. We were being let…

In Auckland people tend to drive as if their "right of way" is all that matters

I don't know; after spending time driving on the Shore, I find City drivers relaxed, pleasant and courteous.

the sound of a car horn is taken as a threat or insult and the use of brakes for anything other than stopping at your destination is regarded as "some c%*t pulling out in front of me so I must kill him/her"

There is that: road rage seems to be…

Kurt, selamat datang teman, dan bahagia hari kemerdekaan. What's the sentiment like in Jayapura today – I'm guessing there are a lot of people unenthusiastic about official celebrations?

Terima kasih banyak. Just got 'home' this morning and the airport is of course decked out in merah dan putih. Sentani always…

They would proceed from Papakura to Mt Eden to Henderson. West Auckland is not a "nowhere stop".

You're talking about a whole new train line, going from South to West? Is there a proven demand for this?

I personally wouldn't have a problem with it, if there's any demand, but…

I'm not angry and feel no hatred for it, it is however still a waste of money, because the existing network is a joke. Our network serves too few Aucklanders

To repeat myself, the CBD tunnel is desperately needed to increase capacity. Britomart is already under strain. Until those capacity…

Andrea, I was more meaning that you stop people thinking "Oh, the roads are so empty, I'll stop taking the bus" by making it expensive to revert to their car-loving ways.

I really don't like this idea. If the roads are empty then they could be used, what's the problem…

I think a K'Rd station and thus a city loop makes an inordinate amount of sense.

It occurs to me that it would also be a boon for the hospitality sector in the evenings. Easy mobility between downtown and K Road without a car sounds fun. Indeed, it would have…

The solution to that is to heavily ration parking space, and make it very expensive to take a private motor vehicle into the CBD or other areas that are similarly well-served by public transport.

You are not going to "solve" congestion. What is the point of having all these streets…

The CBD?

In what space? It's not like the CBD is, in normal economic conditions, overflowing with an abundance of unoccupied office space. It's also distinctly unsuited to manufacturing, and doesn't exactly have space to accommodate tens-of-thousands of people coming from two- and three-bedroom residential areas.

Albany may be "Auckland's…

if congestion goes down much, driving looks that much better and people jump in their cars

The solution to that is to heavily ration parking space, and make it very expensive to take a private motor vehicle into the CBD or other areas that are similarly well-served by public transport.

Bizarrely, I quite like JKT, but only for brief periods (3-5 days maximum). I've spent a lot of time there, and love the food and mix of sub-cultures. Bahasa as spoken on the streets is fascinating and confusing.

But, yes, it's a filthy broken dump as well.

I'm very likely…

I hate that city with a passion that border's on insanity.

Bizarrely, I quite like JKT, but only for brief periods (3-5 days maximum). I've spent a lot of time there, and love the food and mix of sub-cultures. Bahasa as spoken on the streets is fascinating and confusing.

But,…

Yes, I'd be reluctant to walk much further than that. Especially if it was wet.

And this is Auckland!

Though that 700m radius is still at the upper end of the 400-800m walking distance in the report that Angus cited.

Yes, I'd be reluctant to walk much further than that. Especially if it was wet.

Wouldn't a 1400m gap between stations imply a 700m radius

Yes, my bad. Too little sleep, too little coffee. Though that 700m radius is still at the upper end of the 400-800m walking distance in the report that Angus cited. What he didn't say is that 2km is only viable…

As it stands at the moment I enjoy getting a rental car when…

I love driving in Auckland, it's so fast and easy. But Aucklanders tend to get really pissed off when I tell them that.

Yeah, Auckland is pretty easy to get around in a car except during rush hours along certain routes. And no amount of PT is going to stop…

Our 'burbs houses probably average 10 or 15 km from a station. Adding line to reach more of these potential customers can be done much more cost effectively than tunneling under Albert Park.

ROFL. Now you're really taking the piss. Land to run train lines doesn't come for free. There's…

tunneling under Albert Park

The prefered tunnel route doesnt go under Albert Park. INdeed, it doesn't have a station right next to the Universities (it follows Albert st more closely,…

Last time I checked, a 1400m straight line would equate to a 2800m radius. And at an average human walking speed of 4km/h 1400m's still a 17-minute walk.

Huh? Wouldn't a 1400m gap between stations imply a 700m radius?

I love driving in Auckland, it's so fast and easy. But Aucklanders tend to get really pissed off when I tell them that.

I don't. I lived in Melbourne for 5 years, and it has great public transport, but getting around Auckland is still a shitload faster, cheaper, and more…

[in] Singapore ...the stations in the CBD and destination points tend to be a lot closer together than 2000m.

If Angus' post was correct, they were talking about 2km catchment radius which implies closer to 4km between stations.

likewise downtown melbourne has about 5 stations in a ring, all at…

Each of the proposed new stations will be placed within 1400 m of an existing station. This study (pdf) of Singapore's MRT system shows their design criteria was for station catchments to be 2000 m radius

Last time I checked, a 1400m straight line would equate to a 2800m radius.…

In the 'burbs, they can be much further apart.

Our 'burbs houses probably average 10 or 15 km from a station. Adding line to reach more of these potential customers can be done much more cost effectively than tunneling under Albert Park.

But how do you kill a zombie?

It is difficult to kill that which does not exist. Myths persist as long as there are people who want to believe them.

likewise downtown melbourne has about 5 stations in a ring, all at key points feeding into the tram network. some of which are only about a km apart.

They're a pleasure to use, when they're not breaking down in summer heat. I hope we'll have something to approximate this within…

So Matthew what do you can a road that only has one lane, for both directions?

I believe the term-of-art is "one-lane road". I find it confusing and illogical too.

LOL andrea quin, you're always just that much faster than me

What can I say....I do my best.

It is kinda depressing how often all these tired old arguments come up and how easy it is for someone who has studied it at all can bat away the criticisms. But…

[in] Singapore ...the stations in the CBD and destination points tend to be a lot closer together than 2000m.

likewise downtown melbourne has about 5 stations in a ring, all at key points feeding into the tram network. some of which are only about a km apart.

one station, say…

I suspect anything would look good in comparison to Bangkok. Which, not incidentally, has finally got round to starting on a decent rail system, if I understand correctly.

Superb, skytrain and underground systems, but not new: they've just celebrated their 10th anniversary. Efficient, fast and cheap. I find getting around…

Then again, my experience of Auckland is always a little different. I always enjoy how little traffic there is in the city when back.

I suspect anything would look good in comparison to Bangkok. Which, not incidentally, has finally got round to starting on a decent rail system, if I…

I think Angus has made the arguement My Roughan would have liked to make.

Except that the conclusions drawn from that report are flawed. As someone who has spent a lot of time in Singapore over the past decade or so (some 30 visits since 2005, several extended), the stations…

It's a pity Joshua is on holiday in the US right now, I know he'd be a great addition to this conversation.

Edit: James, bingo.

I suspect the difference in population density probably has something to do with the lack of public transport in Auckland

Yes – the lack of public transport options has contributed to the failure to restrict the city's urban sprawl. Or is that not what you meant...

It's true that European…

Auckland's density is thanks to the relatively decent lot…

I suspect the difference in population density probably has something to do with the lack of public transport in Auckland

You suspect wrongly... There are both more and less dense cities than Auckland which have better and worse public transport. To some extent, better transport creates greater density around itself…