Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: How is Government evaluating its welfare reforms, and why aren’t we allowed to know?

Marc C

Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:56:26 +1300

WINZ and MSD got off lightly, the now convicted killer has wasted the rest of his life, just another New Zealand human tragedy that resulted in more tragedy:

"Russell John Tully went from nicest bloke to killer"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/77612963/Russell-John-Tully-went-from-nicest-bloke-to-killer

__"Russell Tully was born in Ashburton Public Hospital on March 14, 1966,…

Marc C

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:56:36 +1300

So we had the first two days of the trial of the accused Russell Tully now, and today he was taken from the courtroom and thus silenced, as he was .in the view of the judge not talking re what mattered and out of order.

What I get as an…

Rosemary McDonald

Tue, 23 Feb 2016 17:39:41 +1300

Russell Tully, born and raised in Ashburton, returned there to die.

Marc C

Tue, 23 Feb 2016 13:56:10 +1300

The accused, Russell J. Tully, does appear to be reluctant to work with a professional lawyer, and will instead be represented by two "Friends of the Court".

That will mean, he is not likely to get much of a chance to effectively defend himself, as such "Friends" usually only do…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:52:56 +1300

an ever changing news cycle
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/77160190/trial-of-ashburton-doublemurder-accused-russell-tully-delayed-to-wednesday

Marc C

Tue, 23 Feb 2016 00:55:59 +1300

2 links to recent media reports:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/77119471/Trial-for-alleged-Ashburton-Work-and-Income-shooter-Russell-John-Tully-to-begin

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/trial-date-set-for-ashburton-winz-shooting-accused-6231562

Marc C

Tue, 23 Feb 2016 00:53:01 +1300

A reminder:
"Carmel Sepuloni, Labour's spokeswoman for social development matters put some questions forward on 17 September 2015, to the Associate Minister for Social Development:
http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/39670

She appears to have OIA info that proves that newly started trials are not delivering what was expected."

Some evaluation info was promised by…

Marc C

Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:55:27 +1300

Re my last comment(s), see above:

It has been established, Jo Goodhew, Associate Minister of Social Development, lied and misled the House of Representatives, we got NO evaluation information at all “later in the year” (2015)!

http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/39670

And in the meantime, away from public attention, yet updated regularly on the…

Marc C

Tue, 22 Dec 2015 13:49:41 +1300

Just remembering, on 17 Sept. 2015 Labour’s Spokeswoman on Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni, asked the following question 8 in Parliament, during Question Time:

http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/39670

It was answered by Jo Goodhew, Associate Minister for Social Development, who did in part misinform the House, claiming all these new outsourced, contracted trials to…

Marc C

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:50:08 +1300

Yes, they do, hence so much gets either swept under the carpet, denied it ever existed, or is just plainly "wrong", no matter what.

https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2015/11/27/msds-selective-and-poor-responses-to-new-oia-requests-on-benefits-advisors-reports-mental-health-and-sole-parent-employment-services/

https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2015/10/04/how-the-n-z-health-and-disability-commissioner-let-off-a-biased-designated-doctor/

AND how much is this for “fall out”, that the MSM have NO knowledge about?

https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/speaker-of-parliament-complaint-abt-ombudsman-hdc-complt-handling-anon-xx-05-15.pdf

https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/speaker-house-of-repr-complaint-abt-ombudsman-office-reply-anon-25-08-15.pdf

https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/speaker-house-of-repr-complaint-abt-ombudsman-office-reply-anon-hilit-25-08-15.pdf

https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/speaker-of-parliament-complaint-abt-ombudsman-rqst-f-inquiry-reply-to-dec-anon-05-09-15.pdf

Heaps more seems to be…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:30:51 +1300

Maybe the government just hates releasing information
They hate getting it too...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/74463154/ecan-stops-measuring-public-opinion-of-its-leadership-performance

Marc C

Wed, 02 Dec 2015 18:21:30 +1300

Maybe the government just hates releasing information, and uses all legal and possibly not so legal means to do so? Frank Macskasy wrote an interesting post on the OIA frustrations he has experienced, but it seems others had much worse experiences:

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/12/01/hekia-parata-breaks-law-ignores-official-information-act/

I think we are denied the truth at…

Marc C

Sat, 28 Nov 2015 00:45:14 +1300

A new post is available with the above mentioned new OIA info:

https://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2015/11/27/msds-selective-and-poor-responses-to-new-oia-requests-on-benefits-advisors-reports-mental-health-and-sole-parent-employment-services/

It is likely to be edited a bit more, to add more links and relevant info.

Marc C

Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:10:24 +1300

Here is a “clean” copy of the above mentioned OIA response from MSD (from 19.11.15), giving answers to questions about benefit components, the once appointed Health and Disability Panel, external and internal Advisors – and reports by them, about trials in the form of mental health employment services, sole parent…

Marc C

Fri, 20 Nov 2015 19:17:03 +1300

Having just obtained a copy of an OIA response from MSD, through a trusted source, it appears the evaluation of the Mental Health Employment Services and Sole Parent Employment Services is not going to be completed before June 2016. That is after Jo Goodhew told Carmel Sepuloni in reply to…

Marc C

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:21:40 +1300

UPDATE: An EVALUATION REPORT on “recent” social welfare reforms is apparently due LATE this year! This has been said in an answer to a question on Parliament:

On 17 September 2015, in the NZ House of Representatives (Parliament), the Labour opposition spokeswoman on Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni, put a hard…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 06 Oct 2015 06:24:29 +1300

Upcoming Fabian organised talk reminder
Max Rashbrooke – Why we need to change the way we talk about poverty and inequality
I would like to remind/invite you to the above event which will be held at the **WEA Rooms, 59 Gloucester Street, Christchurch, at 7:30pm on Thursday October 8th.…

Marc C

Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:19:59 +1300

An interesting new report by Bill Rosenberg and the CTU, reveals how dishonest the "investment approach" is that the present government is using to address long term welfare dependency and costs.

The government's "investment approach" to welfare reform is very flawed, and seems to be so designed to reduce only…

Marc C

Sat, 19 Jul 2014 02:03:43 +1200

Just a "tiny" hint on corporate advice on welfare reform in the UK, also now applied here, and do not forget the AFOEM, headed by former ATOS staffer, MR Dr David Beaumont, also know by many ACC clients, for "bizarre" reports and assessments:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/mar/17/epluribusunum

http://www.racp.org.nz/page/racp-faculties/australasian-faculty-of-occupational-and-environmental-medicine/realising-the-health-benefits-of-work/may-2010-video-presentation-professor-sir-mansel-aylward

http://www.racp.org.nz/index.cfm?objectid=E1D5428F-B1BF-2C2F-7A247F80DC4F363C

http://www.gpcme.co.nz/pdf/GP%20CME/Friday/C1%201515%20Bratt-Hawker.pdf
(see pages 13,…

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 18 Jul 2014 16:15:21 +1200

In fact, despite Sandra Waddell stating that the organisation was going to be completely independant of government back in I think 2008*, the NZDSN recieves more in government grants/contracts than it does from its membership subscriptions….

I'm having problems verifying this....the Radio NZ Pod cast I have saved on my…

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 18 Jul 2014 15:38:45 +1200

http://www.nzdsn.org.nz/uploads/publications/NZDSN-Annual_Report-Sept_2013.pdf

Sacha

Fri, 18 Jul 2014 14:33:51 +1200

government funded

I thought they were funded by membership fees?

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 18 Jul 2014 13:37:45 +1200

“” ….it pays to stay in touch with what is going on in the UK, in Britain, as that is where much of the “reform ideas” we have adopted here in New Zealand are coming from:”

The ILF can be compared to our Individualised Funding. For the same reasons, IF…

Marc C

Wed, 16 Jul 2014 23:24:33 +1200

Re this topic, it pays to stay in touch with what is going on in the UK, in Britain, as that is where much of the "reform ideas" we have adopted here in New Zealand are coming from:

http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/
http://dpac.uk.net/

It is an evolving issue, or policy area, and there…

Marc C

Sun, 06 Jul 2014 00:59:14 +1200

"Puts me in mind of an article written by Audrey Young way back in 2010.
An interview with Bill English….just hitting his straps as Minister of Finance."

Thanks for that link to the Herald article from 2010, Rosemary.

Yes, Bill English is one of the main "planners" of the agenda…

Rosemary McDonald

Sat, 05 Jul 2014 20:17:52 +1200

I have read as much as humanly possible from your link to the nzsocialjusticeblog, especially the bits about medical assessments, and the interesting connections with ACC.

Puts me in mind of an article written by Audrey Young way back in 2010.
An interview with Bill English....just hitting his straps as…

Angela Hart

Sat, 05 Jul 2014 19:57:44 +1200

Leaks are probably the biggest hope we have against what appears to be regulatory capture.

We can hope, but there is an obvious climate of fear and with good reason.

I'm sorry to hear about the issue with your teeth. There seem to be all sorts of cost cutting measures…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 05 Jul 2014 16:18:34 +1200

Unfortunately it often seems to take extensive civil unrest to remove so called citizens' representatives who have chosen to ignore the function they were elected to perform.

Or a friendly insider within the Bowen St Triangle who has the guts to do a Chelsea Manning or Edward Snowden and blow…

Angela Hart

Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:19:43 +1200

I fear things have now got out of control and much more serious damage may need to happen, before any of the mentioned parties and stakeholders may review what they are doing.

I agree with you. If there isn't an honest, open and voluntary change of direction from those in…

Marc C

Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:40:08 +1200

Further to Angela's last comment: A few years ago Sue Bradford tried to bring a bill into Parliament, when she was still with the Greens, seeking an amendment to the Social Security Act, to allow appeals beyond Medical Appeal Boards, and to also allow some other fairer steps under social…

Marc C

Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:29:33 +1200

Acclaim Otago have done a great job and achieved something, taking issues to the UN. But WINZ beneficiaries have too little history in working together, and they are more fragmented and even more marginalised, so it is a struggle to even get some to speak up or out about what…

Angela Hart

Fri, 04 Jul 2014 15:46:07 +1200

By the way, there is NO way to proceed with a challenge of a MAB decision and take it further to a court!

Perhaps the route taken by Acclaim? A shadow report to the UN highlighting the lack of access to justice of ACC claimants.
http://www.acclaimotago.org/page2.html

It would require a…

Marc C

Fri, 04 Jul 2014 10:08:23 +1200

Thanks for your reply, Angela, and yes, I must concede, even High Court and higher court rulings may be circumvented by the legislative. What the government did was they "qualified" the courts' verdicts and interpreted it their own way, and then made a new law, that offered abysmally poor "help"…

Angela Hart

Thu, 03 Jul 2014 22:26:27 +1200

So why is the Ministry of Social Development hiding behind the Official Information Act to avoid telling us how they plan to do that? Are they only interested in cutting the fiscal liability?

In my humble opinion the answer to your question is Yes!
Not only are they only interested…

Angela Hart

Thu, 03 Jul 2014 22:12:20 +1200

Links from Rosemary's quote which didn't transfer:
NZ Public Health and Disability Amendment Act 2013
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0022/latest/whole.html
Few parents get paid http://www.nzherald.co.nz/simon-collins/news/article.cfm?a_id=135&objectid=11240668

Angela Hart

Thu, 03 Jul 2014 22:05:11 +1200

Thanks Marc, yes, I understand, it's just that I've been reluctant to fully accept that we no longer live in a valid democracy. Legal avenues are already compromised, to borrow from Rosemary's Paying Family Carers post on Access:

"We took (another) deep breath and tried to give a précis of…

Marc C

Thu, 03 Jul 2014 16:37:49 +1200

Angela, the ONLY place, where you can achieve anything that will result in binding decisions, or at least precedents setting legal standards, is the High Court and other courts above it!

Marc C

Thu, 03 Jul 2014 16:34:57 +1200

Angela, I have had some dealings with the Ombudsmen Office. It was clearly pointed out to me, that all they can do is make recommendations and issue reports, as the Ombudsman Act apparently states, but they cannot enforce these. They are not binding on the agencies, departments or institutions that…

Angela Hart

Thu, 03 Jul 2014 16:05:04 +1200

Yes, thanks I see and the Ombusdman's office advice certainly supports this view in my case, but is there anything I can do other than wait for the Ombudsman? I've already written back to the MOH stating that the Ombudsman disagrees with their view and quoting 2(5). I was rebuffed.…

Angela Hart

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 16:54:14 +1200

so am I right to say you're seeking details of the eligibility assessment process?

No, not exactly, the stated eligibility criteria are clear. But I think there may be an imposition of a requirement for a certain number of unpaid support hours once the person's support need is assessed. Otherwise,…

Angela Hart

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 16:41:58 +1200

Only 9 of the 121 families ( at the time of my information) had more than 35 hours.

oops, sorry folks, I've just been over the figures and I got this one wrong. There are actually 24 of the 121 families getting more than 35 hours per week. There are…

Angela Hart

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 15:50:24 +1200

I know one person who felt so humiliated by the process and the requirements for jobseeker or whatever they call it now, that he goes without. My circle of friends is pretty small, so if I know one, there must be many more people like him. He's in the invidious…

A S

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 15:16:33 +1200

Great post, Michael. You raise some very important questions on these changes.

I also agree with you that the welfare reforms don't seem to have improved W&I job matching capability. I also wonder if the churn figures around returns to benefit would tell an interesting story about the sustainability of the…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 14:34:16 +1200

Your Ombudsman link isn't working.

Bloody Ombudsman's website. Go to Liberty, search for "contractor", and look at Case Notes [W48879]. Its actually about a contractor of a contractor, and the Ombudsman upheld LGOIMA applicability because they were ultimately working for a city council.

Michael Fletcher

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 10:17:53 +1200

Hi Marc,
Actually the 1,500 people leaving benefit for work is probably correct and it is FEWER than the weekly average for the period 1999 – 2005 as reported in the Welfare Working Group's "The Issues" paper (p11). lots of possible reasons of course, but it doesn't appear that the…

Sacha

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 09:44:44 +1200

so am I right to say you're seeking details of the eligibility assessment process?

Angela Hart

Wed, 02 Jul 2014 07:53:58 +1200

Your Ombudsman link isn't working.
I've tried all sorts with this particular effort on Funded Family Care. If I can get past the contractor issue, the specific information will come out because I did make narrower and highly specific earlier requests. However I'm new to this OIA business and appreciate…

Sacha

Tue, 01 Jul 2014 21:15:34 +1200

FASS

http://www.fass.org.nz/

Sacha

Tue, 01 Jul 2014 21:13:59 +1200

Also I had Ombudsman office advice before I made my OIA requests

oh it's highly relevant. hijack away. :)

Kumara Republic

Tue, 01 Jul 2014 21:01:56 +1200

I'm tempted to think that what we need right now is an Edward Snowden of the public sector. And he'd go a whole lot further than the MFAT leaker.

Angela Hart

Tue, 01 Jul 2014 20:35:52 +1200

yes, I have the guidelines on FFC for both the NASCs and FASS.
And to answer Idiot Savant, I made narrower and more specific requests earlier, and by the time I got to this one I had decided to go for as much as possible. If there is cost they…

Sacha

Tue, 01 Jul 2014 14:48:28 +1200

The guidelines to the NASCs are most interesting for what they do not say

So you do have the guidelines already?

Idiot Savant

Tue, 01 Jul 2014 14:44:05 +1200

"The Ombudsman's reference to section 2(5) of the Act is correct for independent self-employed contractors to the Ministry who are considered in a similar position to an employee; information they hold is deemed to be held by the Ministry. However NASCs are independent organizations delivering services to members of the…

Hilary Stace

Tue, 01 Jul 2014 10:09:14 +1200

There is a Ministry of Health database called SOCRATES that holds all the NASC information. Several years ago an enormous amount of disability funding went into establishing it (and questions were asked in parliament) in the apparent belief it would make things equitable and transparent across the various NASCs and…

Angela Hart

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:16:45 +1200

What sort of informatioon were you asking for?

"all information held by the NASCs in their capacity as contractors to the Ministry of Health, relating to the implementation and operation of Funded Family Care. This includes any material generated by the NASCs for their own use in assessing and implementing…

Tao Wells

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 21:00:10 +1200

Great work Michael Fletcher. Thanks you. Kia Kaha

Marc C

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 20:05:20 +1200

Michael – Quote:
"In fact that report draws a lot on the Taylor Fry data. Interestingly, it has a section called "Off Benefit Outcomes" which I thought sounded promising but which turns out simply to report exit rates from benefit."

Yes, this is totally disappointing, and I challenge the Prime…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 19:05:52 +1200

a “relentless focus on work"
This, to me, is the brunt. We have the technology to build robots to do the hard graft, we have software to do the number crunching, you can go buy a Rumba to clean your house, without letting one of those annoying poor…

Michael Fletcher

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 17:18:52 +1200

Marc, yes, the Ministry did publish a further actuarial report on Friday, which was after I had drafted this. In fact that report draws a lot on the Taylor Fry data. Interestingly, it has a section called "Off Benefit Outcomes" which I thought sounded promising but which turns out simply…

Michael Fletcher

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 17:03:35 +1200

Thanks, Lilith_

Sacha

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:53:54 +1200

The Ministry requires NASC agencies to report regularly on services they provide. The Ministry holds that information for services they fund. I don't know about the other NASC funding from District Health Boards, but they usually demand accountability for services they pay for. What sort of informatioon were you asking…

Angela Hart

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 15:01:06 +1200

You are absolutely correct but the MOH claims that the contractor clause (which I quoted in my OIA request) does not apply to the NASCs.
I quote from Mr Hundleby's letter:
"The Ombudsman's reference to section 2(5) of the Act is correct for independent self-employed contractors to the Ministry who…

Idiot Savant

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:44:54 +1200

So true, and under this Government we are also unable to access information from the NASCs (Needs Assessment and Service Co-ordination agencies) contracted by MOH to ensure disability support services go where they are needed. According to the MOH the NASCs are community groups and not covered by the OIA.…

Sacha

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:03:10 +1200

no, though you could argue the National Health Board is a successor

izogi

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:36:41 +1200

I have asked the Ombudsman to investigate the Ministry’s decision. But as the Minister and the Ministry both know, the Ombudsman’s Office is overloaded and decisions take many months

A couple of years ago, Shane Jones was working on the Ombudsmen (Cost Recovery Amendment Bill. It never progressed (National nuked…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:27:56 +1200

On a related note, is Health Benefits Ltd just the late unlamented Health Funding Authority by another name?

Rob Stowell

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:13:59 +1200

The reports and evaluations may well reveal how rather simply COST focused the reforms are, and how questionable science has been relied on, to simply use as a justification of certain measures, like moving sick and disabled from certain benefits.
If I were to bet on it, I’d say no,…

Angela Hart

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:08:59 +1200

How do we know it is in the public interest, or not so? Lack of transparency and secrecy do not serve the interests of the public, as this is in an area of policy,

So true, and under this Government we are also unable to access information from the NASCs…

Russell Brown

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 07:44:51 +1200

Quote from the post above: "(NB: Since this post was submitted the ministry has published its “first internal actuarial report produced in relation to the forward liabilities of the welfare system.”)"

I guess it is this:
http://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/evaluation/investment-approach/key-findings.html

So was this due to someone at MSD working on Sundays, or did…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 07:32:38 +1200

...happen to wear large earrings
... and was last seen abseiling off Column Crag?

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 07:24:23 +1200

...loves company...
Immiseration
Surely we have a Minister for that?
A whole Department even...
It's their job to be fear!

Kumara Republic

Mon, 30 Jun 2014 03:04:54 +1200

The reforms are in large part based on a strategy that one previous head of Work and Income was said to have described as ‘shaking the tree’ – imposing conditions and obligations on beneficiaries that make it harder to stay on (or get onto) a benefit.

Did the previous head…

william blake

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 22:39:25 +1200

Why aren't we allowed to know?

Immiseration.

http://www.stateofnature.org/?p=5024

Marc C

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 22:22:58 +1200

From the post, regarding OIA response refusal by MSD:
"Two reasons were given. The first was to protect the conduct of public affairs through the free and frank expression of opinion. The second was that because the information is under active consideration the wider public interest of effective government would…

Marc C

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 22:06:24 +1200

I guess it is this:
http://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/evaluation/investment-approach/key-findings.html

So was this due to someone at MSD working on Sundays, or did…

Lilith __

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:52:38 +1200

Unless all evaluation of massive programme changes was simply thrown out the window to save money. Why bother when neoliberal economic theory proves you are right?

Could this be the case? That there's actually no evaluation of effectiveness?

steve black

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:33:15 +1200

A friend (who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons) is a professional evaluator. She noted that as soon as the Nats took office from Labour, Government contracts for evaluation work pretty much dried up. One presumes the work was moved from professional evaluators into accounting firms, management consultants, and the…

Sacha

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:00:23 +1200

yes, make it an election issue, as it were..

Rob Stowell

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 16:36:47 +1200

Is there any other way to challenge the MSD decision? Public humiliation might help.

Lilith __

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:50:19 +1200

It’s an easy strategy for reducing welfare numbers and the ‘fiscal liability’. And, yes, it will identify some who could be working. But it also risks shaking off some of the most vulnerable, those without the strength and determination to cling on to the tree however much they may need…

Sacha

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:04:36 +1200

When the actuarial approach was first publicised, weren’t there concerns about the model assuming that people stayed on a benefit forever – leading to some hefty and utterly unrealistic cost estimates?

Public Address

Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:04:36 +1200

Discussion from blog post.