Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: Gender quotas (and helping journalists with their maths) https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address mark taslov https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=380157#post380157 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=380157#post380157 tweet couplet brings the conversation right up to date. ]]> Wed, 03 Oct 2018 18:08:43 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=380143#post380143 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=380143#post380143 Tue, 25 Sept 2018 21:24:09 +1200 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=380142#post380142 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=380142#post380142 Vindication. ]]> Tue, 25 Sept 2018 21:23:33 +1200 Brent Jackson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301563#post301563 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301563#post301563 I guess they're doing a miniscule bit to help the under-representation of woman in the other parties.

But I too would favour the 1-2-2-2... approach.

]]> Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:24:03 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301523#post301523 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301523#post301523 Peter: The Green party list alternates male / female right from the top.

I’ve long thought that the Green Party, in order to be fair to both men and women, should alternate its list like serving in a tennis tie-breaker: e.g. one woman, two men, two women, two men etc…

]]> Fri, 22 Nov 2013 08:42:35 +1300 Steve Withers https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301522#post301522 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301522#post301522 Fri, 22 Nov 2013 08:07:50 +1300 Steve Withers https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301520#post301520 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=301520#post301520 I gave Gower the benefit of the doubt for quite a while, but now he’s been moved to my to my “Duncan Garner Response Protocol”.

Turn the volume down until over, or change the channel or turn the TV off and do something useful.

I did see that story about…

]]> Fri, 22 Nov 2013 08:00:08 +1300 Felix Marwick https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300576#post300576 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300576#post300576 I don’t know how we are supposed to judge the ‘merit’ of MPs, but the Green Party puts a lot of women in parliament. How do they do it?

I believe the Greens operate a 60-40 rule. MPs of either gender will constitute no more than 60 percent of the…

]]> Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:30:51 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300415#post300415 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300415#post300415 Thu, 07 Nov 2013 00:16:15 +1300 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300414#post300414 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300414#post300414 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 23:19:54 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300413#post300413 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300413#post300413 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 23:13:57 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300398#post300398 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300398#post300398 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 21:36:27 +1300 Peter Calder https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300393#post300393 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300393#post300393 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 20:15:06 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300376#post300376 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300376#post300376 Of course, the Greens are list-only in their representation, so don’t have the complications of electorate MPs (who are predominantly male) to consider. Which is why Labour can’t rely on adopting a similar, pretty simple measure to ensure gender equality.

It's only a matter of time before that has to…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 19:08:18 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300374#post300374 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300374#post300374 I think it’s because they actually treat women as people.

Well, they have always (I think) run a "zipped list" – alternating female/male/female/male (and then also considering other matters such as ethnicity, etc in the overall individual rankings). Which guarantees at least 50% women representing the party – which in…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:59:06 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300371#post300371 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300371#post300371 I don’t know how we are supposed to judge the ‘merit’ of MPs, but the Green Party puts a lot of women in parliament. How do they do it?

I think it's because they actually treat women as people.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:39:49 +1300 Hebe https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300369#post300369 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300369#post300369 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:34:08 +1300 Peter Graham https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300368#post300368 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300368#post300368 Another argument I considered including, but left out for length, is this: please show me an organisation that claims to select on merit and actually does.

I don't know how we are supposed to judge the 'merit' of MPs, but the Green Party puts a lot of women in parliament.…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:30:28 +1300 Paul Williams https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300366#post300366 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300366#post300366 their “decisiveness”, their “strength”, their “determination”, etc, etc

I do like those qualities. Hell, they're strongly evident in my household of three women, one man. How about 'empathy', 'intelligence' and 'open mindedness' for additions. Judith Collins displayed none of them in the House today or yesterday...

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:21:00 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300364#post300364 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300364#post300364 Also, Parliament is a House of Representatives, not the ‘House of the smartest’ or the ‘House of those with the most power’. It currently isn’t representative of women, and by a large number.

This. More than anything else on this thread.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 17:34:36 +1300 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300361#post300361 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300361#post300361 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 17:21:02 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300360#post300360 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300360#post300360 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 17:19:35 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300359#post300359 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300359#post300359 Again, it seems obvious to me that a lawyer's training is not one that best equips you for statistical analysis.

Just because we respect your legal capability does not mean we have to extend that to other areas of expertise.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 17:18:53 +1300 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300358#post300358 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300358#post300358 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 17:16:31 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300355#post300355 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300355#post300355 I can imagine John Tamihere is seriously thinking about gender reassignment already...
(I mean, how hard could it be, right?)
Going on JT's past form it'd be a piece of piss. All you need to do is move one body part from the back to the front.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 17:01:59 +1300 Keir Leslie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300353#post300353 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300353#post300353 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 16:47:29 +1300 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300351#post300351 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300351#post300351 Having said that, while I think Labour’s move is an admirable one, we shouldn’t fool ourselves that it is going to be easy in practice. It requires a couple of tricky judgment calls:

I'm curious as to how they do it practically, but in reality in terms of end results,…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 16:25:34 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300350#post300350 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300350#post300350 Are our political expectations heavily differentiated by gender?

What I meant to say is that if you look back over the history of representation in NZ (and elsewhere), the sort of qualities that are thought to make a "good" candidate are things that men (on the whole) are more likely…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 16:19:34 +1300 Rachel Boyack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300347#post300347 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300347#post300347 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:56:51 +1300 Paul Williams https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300346#post300346 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300346#post300346 And we know – because history is good at telling us some things – that what it is people look for in political candidates is deeply gendered in nature, irrespective of how hard they try to correct for it.

Are our political expectations heavily differentiated by gender? Intuitively, I'm inclined…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:55:16 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300345#post300345 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300345#post300345 The Oakland Athletics?

Nope. They select to a formula that advantages less meritorious individuals on the basis of mathematical percentages. Not the same thing at all.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:52:32 +1300 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300343#post300343 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300343#post300343 We ended up with elections, I guess, because at some stage, we realised having hereditary rulers was a crock

We ended up with elections because a faction amongst those in power thought (correctly) that they could advance and cement their position by enlisting the less powerful in support:
– Colonial…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:45:54 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300342#post300342 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300342#post300342 May we compromise on “lesser”?

The lesser MPs are the ones in danger of demotion.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:44:57 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300341#post300341 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300341#post300341 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:41:42 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300339#post300339 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300339#post300339 Graeme's example proves the limits of the "only choose on merit" argument in relation to political candidates.

The A's were able to do what they did because:
(1) Baseball has defined rules that clearly establish the objectives of the game – you must score more runs than your opponents to…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 15:29:10 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300329#post300329 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300329#post300329 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:34:25 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300322#post300322 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300322#post300322 please show me an organisation that claims to select on merit and actually does.

The Oakland Athletics?

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:11:46 +1300 Paul Williams https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300319#post300319 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300319#post300319 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:01:39 +1300 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300317#post300317 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300317#post300317 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 13:39:54 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300313#post300313 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300313#post300313 so to counter this you introduce a policy to select on merit only AFTER you have been selected on the basis of your gender?

My remark about how organisations that claim to select purely on merit don't shouldn't be taken as mere snark. It is very hard to do in…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 13:21:09 +1300 Rachel Boyack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300312#post300312 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300312#post300312 There is international evidence that in a job interview, if you have the following candidates: a) assertive man b) passive man c) assertive woman d) passive woman, the following is the likely order of being hired:

Assertive man
Passive man
Passive woman
Assertive woman

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 13:06:29 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300311#post300311 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300311#post300311 please show me an organisation that claims to select on merit and actually does

It seems to me that the selection process in jobs is rather like democracy generally, in that one of the principle aims is to actually keep out the really bad candidates, rather than to ensure the…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 13:03:35 +1300 Rachel Boyack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300310#post300310 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300310#post300310 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:56:41 +1300 flash https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300309#post300309 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300309#post300309 please show me an organisation that claims to select on merit and actually does

so to counter this you introduce a policy to select on merit only AFTER you have been selected on the basis of your gender?

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:55:10 +1300 flash https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300308#post300308 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300308#post300308 Okay, I’ve done the quantitative. Now to take issue with the qualitative.


Men: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J
Women: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J

An equal selection looks like this:

Men: A B C D E
Women: A B C…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:51:33 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300307#post300307 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300307#post300307 Competent men and women, folks. Competency comes first.
We ended up with elections, I guess, because at some stage, we realised having hereditary rulers was a crock. They pandered to their own self interest, the rest of us could eat shit, or so it seemed, to a lot of them.…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:48:56 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300306#post300306 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300306#post300306 and actually does. I have yet to see one. Sexism is systemic and structural. So to suggest "just select on merit" elides the very real difficulties in… ]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:42:18 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300305#post300305 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300305#post300305 hidden genders...
May we compromise on “lesser”?
phew, er...
or leave it as "laissez-faire" even...
;- )

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:33:52 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300304#post300304 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300304#post300304 When you assume an increase of PV on 2011 (even a 6 point increase based on where we are now), and the requirement for 45% women, the maths doesn’t deliver any demotions.

Except it may require that if you select a disproportionate number of men to contest electorate races (after…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:24:11 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300301#post300301 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300301#post300301 Okay, I’ve done the quantitative. Now to take issue with the qualitative.

Men: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J
Women: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J

An equal selection looks like this:

Men: A B C D E
Women: A B C…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:12:36 +1300 Rachel Boyack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300300#post300300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300300#post300300 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:11:42 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300297#post300297 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300297#post300297 Oh please! Fewer male MPs. :-) #oneupmanship

May we compromise on "lesser"?

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:45:15 +1300 Tristan https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300296#post300296 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300296#post300296 While it's nice to tie the next election to an election in 1922 (and onwards) I don't think its very relevant. The MMP elections I think are more so and from those I see there can be big changes for both parties between elections.

I expect that the margin between…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:41:02 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300295#post300295 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300295#post300295 But that doesn’t necessarily mean there will be less male MPs than presently

Oh please! Fewer male MPs. :-) #oneupmanship

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:40:58 +1300 Andrew Geddis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300294#post300294 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300294#post300294 I freely grant you're right in the sense that every new party list is likely to see some sitting MPs fare poorly.

Well, not if you just rank your sitting MPs as 1-34 on the party list (as has happened in the past).

But that cheap and completely unnecessary display…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:37:34 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300292#post300292 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300292#post300292 Aunty government...
Surely we want THUNDERDOME
Run by a woman, IIRC....

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:33:22 +1300 AdamPope https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300291#post300291 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300291#post300291 To use Stephen's example on Rachel's math, we'll just give the kids a bigger cake. Johnny gets a bigger slice even as it's only half this time...

Sorry, Rachel, I'm picking at a crumb there when the menu fills me with joy; still a long way to go mind...

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:28:51 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300290#post300290 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300290#post300290 be careful what you wish for...
I can imagine John Tamihere is seriously thinking about gender reassignment already...
(I mean, how hard could it be, right?)

;- )

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:28:46 +1300 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300289#post300289 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300289#post300289 just used the result pages and a calculator.

Good enough, thanks for the links

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:26:04 +1300 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300288#post300288 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300288#post300288 Don't make me test this assumption by going over past lists!

but will it be a statistically significant number of demotions compared to prior to the policy. Since there are more men, the raw number of men likely to be demoted is likely to be higher than the raw number…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:24:22 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300286#post300286 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300286#post300286 Hunger Games whatever.

Write me a one-pager and I’ll get it into NZOn Air. I think we’re onto a winner.

Surely we want THUNDERDOME. Two men enter – one man leave.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:20:25 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300285#post300285 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300285#post300285 Graeme, do you have a quick source to the time series you used for this?

I'm afraid you'll probably have to assemble it yourself. I just used the result pages and a calculator.

http://www.elections.org.nz/events/past-events/general-elections-1890-1993

and

http://electionresults.govt.nz/

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:18:57 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300283#post300283 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300283#post300283 Don’t make me test this assumption by going over past lists! I am prepared to have a bet with you, Russell, that the 2011 Labour Party list will include list-ranking demotions for multiple (two or more?) male Labour MPs.

I freely grant you're right in the sense that every new…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:13:54 +1300 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300282#post300282 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300282#post300282 we can look to history

Graeme, do you have a quick source to the time series you used for this? I'd like to play along at home (or at least during my lunch hour) and am hoping not to have to spend the time to assemble it myself.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:09:04 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300279#post300279 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300279#post300279 To justify an assumption of multiple demotions of male MPs, you need to assume

Don't make me test this assumption by going over past lists! I am prepared to have a bet with you, Russell, that the 2011 Labour Party list will include list-ranking demotions for multiple (two or more?)…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:04:47 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300278#post300278 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300278#post300278 Don Brash achieved a monumental turn-around for National in 2005 (an ~87% increase in vote share).

Yes, off the back of the worst election result for National, ever. Which is where Labour is right now. Well, worst result for Labour since National was created, anyway, so it's the same time…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 11:00:02 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300277#post300277 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300277#post300277 Perhaps you would like to redo your numbers based on that, and show us what would happen if Labour got ~37.5% of the vote at the upcoming election. Otherwise, I’m pretty sure most of us will assume this was simply an example of partisan hackery.

edit: that took longer than…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:59:30 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300276#post300276 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300276#post300276 But I didn’t see Paddy’s statement as being that incorrect. If you take the party list as it is now and apply the new policy, you will see a shifting of positions. I don’t think calling those demotions is that misleading.

Um, but it is, because the new policy won’t…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:57:51 +1300 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300273#post300273 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300273#post300273 Your analysis is based on an assumption that a two-term Labour opposition will increase its vote share by 45.6%. In assessing whether this is likely, we can look to history to see how common it is for two-term Labour oppositions to achieve such a turn-around.

Two-term Labour oppositions have contested…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:53:59 +1300 Lew Stoddart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300272#post300272 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300272#post300272 Write me a one-pager and I'll get it into NZOn Air. I think we're onto a winner.

Paddy would make an outstanding presenter for this show. "Do you have the support to survive another night at #37? Are you concerned John Tamihere will shank you for your spot?"

L

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:50:48 +1300 Andrew C https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300271#post300271 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300271#post300271 So, your objection is that

Just to be clear – I don't have any objection to the policy whatsoever. And even if I did I usually defer to the sentiment that Craig just detailed: it's their game, so it's their rules.

But I didn't see Paddy's statement as being that…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:43:39 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300270#post300270 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300270#post300270 But if you think that somehow quotas mean that incompetent women will be promoted ahead of competent men, then you will need to say, to my face,(or on-line will do), that I’m incompetent.

Frankly, I think you can look at any government – central or local, foreign or domestic -…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:42:57 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300269#post300269 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300269#post300269 Hunger Games whatever.

Write me a one-pager and I'll get it into NZOn Air. I think we're onto a winner.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:41:57 +1300 Deborah https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300268#post300268 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300268#post300268 Thanks for the shout out, Stephen.

For the record, I'm sticking my hand up to be a candidate for Labour at the next election. I'll look for a list position, and I'm also running for selection in Rangitikei, because there's plenty of party vote to be had there.

Would anyone…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:34:40 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300266#post300266 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300266#post300266 I like a lot of voters, I as guessing, don’t see any problem with what labour is doing, quite the opposite in fact, equality benefits us all

And even if you don't like it, tough titty. Labour (like every other party) gets to select its candidates however it sees fit.…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:25:59 +1300 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300265#post300265 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300265#post300265 It seems appropriate to link to the new free online data journalism course on next year
http://datadrivenjournalism.net/news_and_analysis/Data_Journalism_Handbook_Creators_Announce_Online_Data_Journalism_Course
(as seen on StatsChat)

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:21:28 +1300 Rachel Boyack https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300264#post300264 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300264#post300264 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:20:55 +1300 David Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300263#post300263 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300263#post300263 You cannot fancy pants the maths to get around this.

So, your objection is that, while no current male MPs will suffer (the news story in the question) new MPs (and both sexes will be equally qualified to be there) are statistically more likely to reflect what the general population…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:18:42 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300261#post300261 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300261#post300261 I agree with the policy, but also agree that the example is self-serving and will play into Paddy Gower’s hands by starting at 40% and increasing from there.

See the top line of the spreadsheet, assuming a 27.48% Party Vote.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:10:52 +1300 Lilith __ https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300260#post300260 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300260#post300260 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:02:01 +1300 Robyn Gallagher https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300259#post300259 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300259#post300259 A couple of weeks ago Helen Clark guest-edited the BBC Newshour programme. As part of it she talks about the benefits of gender quotas in politics (this bit starts at about 5:00, but if you have time, you should listen to the whole thing).

BTW's the UN's global goal is…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:01:15 +1300 Scott A https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300258#post300258 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300258#post300258 I agree with the policy, but also agree that the example is self-serving and will play into Paddy Gower's hands by starting at 40% and increasing from there.

How about the figures bases on the current caucus, then a PV of 36% in 2014, then 38% in 2017. What would…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 10:00:50 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300257#post300257 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300257#post300257 Surely the “maths” given by Rachael is pretty blimmin self serving. The only reason for the increase in men is the fact the PV has been pumped up for the example.

Well, yes. Up from Labour's derisory vote in the last election, roughly in line with polls. The claim being…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 09:58:18 +1300 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300256#post300256 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300256#post300256 Wed, 06 Nov 2013 09:52:29 +1300 Andrew C https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300254#post300254 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300254#post300254 Surely the "maths" given by Rachael is pretty blimmin self serving. The only reason for the increase in men is the fact the PV has been pumped up for the example.

It would seem to me that, all things being equal, if you change the ratio then you CHANGE THE…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 09:46:26 +1300 bob daktari https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300253#post300253 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300253#post300253 I like a lot of voters, I as guessing, don't see any problem with what labour is doing, quite the opposite in fact, equality benefits us all

thanks for the clear and concise outline though, fraid its not going to convince those in the media and other domains that just…

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 09:35:57 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300252#post300252 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-gender-quotas-and-helping-journalists/?p=300252#post300252 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Wed, 06 Nov 2013 09:35:57 +1300