Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: David Fisher: The OIA arms race https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=332644#post332644 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=332644#post332644 Some powerful double speak by Bill English on the Nation today. Did you know this government is the most transparent we've ever had?
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/260562/govt-'the-most-open-nz-has-had'

I thought Bill had qualms but he must have been treated for them.

]]> Sat, 29 Nov 2014 22:41:26 +1300 NSA https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=332456#post332456 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=332456#post332456 Intercepted.

The Secret Life of Kim Dotcom: Spies, Lies and the War for the Internet can be purchased here.

]]> Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:47:25 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=332029#post332029 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=332029#post332029 another good piece from Andrea Vance in today's SST which contrasts nicely with some of the more sycophantic articles like this one which have been published by the Press in Sutton's home town. ]]> Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:24:54 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331845#post331845 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331845#post331845 More Sutton, and Andrea Vance absolutely nails it.

My respect for Vance grows with every article she writes.

]]> Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:38:33 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331843#post331843 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331843#post331843 How much of that culture is coming from their new Minister?

To be fair, that's always been their culture. One of the problems with the public service is the SSC. And it's structural as well as cultural. They don't actually do anything, except appoint CEOs.

]]> Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:23:04 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331713#post331713 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331713#post331713 Another fascinating insight, courtesy of NZ Computerworld's Darren Greenwood, written at the time the Employment Relations Act was being passed nearly 15 years ago. ]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:15:27 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331712#post331712 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331712#post331712 Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:03:14 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331711#post331711 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331711#post331711 s/he didn’t have to take a settlement of their arrangement

if she wanted any further public sector jobs. The power imbalance is high. Hence expectations that senior CEOs behave impeccably.

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:00:06 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331710#post331710 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331710#post331710 Andrea Vance absolutely nails it. ]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:59:29 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331709#post331709 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331709#post331709 Hence, the talk about ditching policy’s that thay them selves have argued, are important.

His view was that voters showed their policies didn't get any support and hence the situation they ended up in and therefore he was choosing to listen to the people. A herald column by Isaac Davison…

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:53:45 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331706#post331706 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331706#post331706 Back to the Sutton story... former CERA communications adviser Tina Nixon knows both parties and calls the resignation performance a "breathtaking PR snow job". She questions whether "people really think that a hug was what it was all about".
The woman at the centre of the incident had done more for…

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:35:26 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331703#post331703 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331703#post331703 My interest in the Labour Party just died a little further.

Same here I'm afraid. I don't know Andrew Little at all so this is only my gut feeling, but I was hoping Labour might choose someone intelligent and articulate with a sense of humour. Someone capable of giving Key…

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:13:48 +1300 Lucy Telfar Barnard https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331702#post331702 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331702#post331702 Yep. My interest in the Labour Party just died a little further.
I may be being unfair. I don't know much about Andrew Little. But nothing he's said has inspired me so far.

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:22:45 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331701#post331701 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331701#post331701 Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:24:38 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331694#post331694 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331694#post331694 one hopes John Key might learn from this…

Fat chance of that. He'd have to stop touching all those people when posing for selfies. And think of all those kisses he'd have to curb. The babies too, with the condescending pats. He is already wrong on so many levels he'd…

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:08:06 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331693#post331693 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331693#post331693 A swift departure announcement like that always has me suspicious of National pulling the strings to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
+1

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:58:42 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331692#post331692 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331692#post331692 Re the Sutton affair – Listening to Gary McCormick and that Cone woman on the panel (RNZ) yesterday was a gruelling exercise in curbing radio defenestration – Gary seemed to think he, and all men, were the victim FFS...
Today's take is that it was the inappropriate jokes
In his…

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:57:34 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331691#post331691 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331691#post331691 I wonder how the victim feels about this public trivialisation of her complaint?

Well I for one would have been happy for the person to share and s/he didn’t have to take a settlement of their arrangement. Bring it on,I say. Plus we got the wife on Campbell live up…

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:52:02 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331689#post331689 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331689#post331689 Whatever the outcome, I think we can assume that the Press has finally seen the futility of pouring whatever nonsense Sutton’s minders issue them with into the void of his personality bypass.

I think that the Sutton case will be used in PR training courses for years to come as…

]]> Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:11:09 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331681#post331681 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331681#post331681 Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:29:43 +1300 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331671#post331671 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331671#post331671 Andrea Vance breaks ranks again by describing the process of spin.

Nice, and good on the Greens for proving that John Key treats Government as his plaything Also showing how long it took for the Greens to get their OIA request (while Key is out of the Country talking…

]]> Mon, 17 Nov 2014 03:36:38 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331664#post331664 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331664#post331664 Andrea Vance breaks ranks again by describing the process of spin.

Step 4: Deploy the prime minister

Only he can simultaneously reassure the media the Government is pulling out all the stops, while suggesting to the public this is really all a silly old storm in a tea cup. This…

]]> Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:53:03 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331658#post331658 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331658#post331658 Stripe tease artiste...
“Young wild pigs have stripes.
This guy isn’t wild,
he’s Gerry’s stooge.”
Yes we kunekune!

]]> Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:37:13 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331657#post331657 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331657#post331657 The ‘Sutton considers his future’ story

Oh those Quirky Roger Facts.
Whatever the outcome, I think we can assume that the Press has finally seen the futility of pouring whatever nonsense Sutton’s minders issue them with into the void of his personality bypass.

Back when Sutton took to wearing a…

]]> Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:22:24 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331655#post331655 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331655#post331655 the latter
The 'Sutton considers his future' story has now been updated:
'Roger Sutton sex claim taken seriously'
Rennie said he received the investigation report on Friday and was communicating his response to the relevant parties.
"The outcome of this process will be made public as early as…

]]> Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:28:43 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331654#post331654 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331654#post331654 will swamp the new Labour leadership announcement or vice versa

the latter

]]> Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:05:53 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331653#post331653 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331653#post331653 (give ’em an inch) the game is afoot…
Sources said the commission was planning to make an announcement on Sutton early next week, timed to coincide with the Labour leadership vote.
Snap! I was gonna comment on that too…

Maybe Labour could bring their announcement forward (or delay it) –…

]]> Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:45:03 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331650#post331650 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=331650#post331650 And another core government agency cynically playing games with release timing.

Asked whether State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie met with Sutton yesterday, a spokesman said the question would be considered as an Official Information Act request, meaning the answer would likely be delayed by four weeks.

Sources said the commission…

]]> Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:50:55 +1300 FletcherB https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330896#post330896 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330896#post330896 On that note, I’d say a Kiwibank of electricity might be less cumbersome to set up than the “Pharmac of electricity” that is the NZPower proposal.

You mean a government owned power company to compete with the private ones? Like all the ones we just sold off? That weren’t all…

]]> Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:15:49 +1300 Stephen R https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330893#post330893 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330893#post330893 On that note, I'd say a Kiwibank of electricity might be less cumbersome to set up than the "Pharmac of electricity" that is the NZPower proposal.

Christchurch used to have a fairly vertically integrated power supply, owning lines, power and generation (I think) and any profits were used to reduce…

]]> Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:19:06 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330890#post330890 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330890#post330890 Leaving Taranaki Savings Bank, TSB, the only New Zealand owned bank in the country until KiwiBank was established.

On that note, I'd say a Kiwibank of electricity might be less cumbersome to set up than the "Pharmac of electricity" that is the NZPower proposal.

]]> Thu, 30 Oct 2014 15:12:52 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330885#post330885 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330885#post330885 Thu, 30 Oct 2014 14:37:41 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330865#post330865 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330865#post330865 ASB has not always been a privately held business, it used to be one of the regional “Trust Banks”.

And the regional savings banks in the rest of the country, bar Taranaki, sold up and out to Westpac.

]]> Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:07:51 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330861#post330861 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330861#post330861 ASB has not always been a privately held business

Someone, no doubt, will correct me if I am wrong but wasn't having an account at a trust bank a proviso for getting a mortgage years back, a bit like the old British "Building Societies"?

]]> Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:50:08 +1300 FletcherB https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330858#post330858 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330858#post330858 ASB has not always been a privately held business, it used to be one of the regional "Trust Banks".

http://www.asbcommunitytrust.org.nz/about-us

__ASB Community Trust distributes grants to the not-for-profit sector throughout Auckland and Northland each year.

Founded on the sale of its shares in the ASB bank, the Trust has distributed…

]]> Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:39:31 +1300 Jack Harrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330764#post330764 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330764#post330764 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 17:21:31 +1300 Jack Harrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330763#post330763 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330763#post330763 Wed, 29 Oct 2014 17:20:25 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330762#post330762 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330762#post330762 when they screw up the redaction ]]> Wed, 29 Oct 2014 17:16:30 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330662#post330662 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330662#post330662 that receives a fair amount of financial support from the ASB Community Trust

excellent

]]> Tue, 28 Oct 2014 23:02:59 +1300 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330661#post330661 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330661#post330661 I totally get your point that OIAs are an important tool for making governments more transparent. It just wasn’t a lot of fun to be on the receiving end of, as a parent volunteer.

No it's not — but I'm on the committee of a body that receives a fair…

]]> Tue, 28 Oct 2014 22:59:20 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330577#post330577 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330577#post330577 the occidental two wrist...
“bible belt”
'the Middle Eats' crisis?

]]> Mon, 27 Oct 2014 06:39:19 +1300 Marc C https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330571#post330571 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330571#post330571 Sun, 26 Oct 2014 21:28:10 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330563#post330563 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330563#post330563 crisis, what crisis?
The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.
Dante Alighieri

The Press's often apt Saturday 'Quote Unquote' column>

]]> Sun, 26 Oct 2014 06:45:29 +1300 phplad https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330561#post330561 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330561#post330561 agreed – this problem is not peculiar to NZ though is it ?
Is it not right throughout the world, a world driven by the wrong values ?
This problem will not be fixed by libertarian heros, or moments of truth.
Those hero's will be written off as conspiracy theorists…

]]> Sun, 26 Oct 2014 00:17:06 +1300 Jack Harrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330535#post330535 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330535#post330535 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 20:36:32 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330533#post330533 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330533#post330533 allowing the Ombudsman to invoice agencies for investigations into their OIA handling would go a significant way towards addressing this.

That's a very good suggestion – also noting that the Office investigates not only central but local government inquiries as well.

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 20:34:20 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330529#post330529 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330529#post330529 the 'temporarily embarrassed millionaires'

Otara styles

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:13:08 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330501#post330501 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330501#post330501 The only reason for privatisation and this is what we see coming from National, is to give lucrative contracts to their supporters and companies that members have shares in, a corrupt practice if there ever was one. The ideology is one of greed and avarice.

In Sir Joh’s Queensland, they…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:55:21 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330499#post330499 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330499#post330499 I think we had politicians who were trying to make this a better place,

But the voters just wanted tax cuts and the supposed opportunity to get rich like John Key, suckers.

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:46:44 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330498#post330498 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330498#post330498 How did we end up with some of the existing stuff, like the original OIA and the culture that followed before all these efforts to sidestep it, and the Bill of Rights Act, and MMP?

I think we had politicians who were trying to make this a better place, and…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:42:42 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330496#post330496 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330496#post330496 The trouble is that the way things are works wonderfully well for those in power. Unless that changes, why should they fix it?

How did we end up with some of the existing stuff, like the original OIA and the culture that followed before all these efforts to sidestep it,…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:30:21 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330495#post330495 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330495#post330495 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:59:03 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330494#post330494 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330494#post330494 Just tacking an offence with a 2 year max sentence on it would introduce the spectre of transgressing ministers being kicked out of parliament for good, and it would spell career death for public servants too.

More importantly, it would give public servants something to point to to justify standing…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:37:16 +1300 Adam H https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330493#post330493 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330493#post330493 Productivity Commission

Every time I see that term I chuckle.

Military Intelligence.

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:32:12 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330486#post330486 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330486#post330486 My own argument for invoicing, even if agencies can find the money, would be that it turns a difficult-to-enforce law into a financial line that would have to show up on budgets, and have be explained in those terms to people who care about money.

I have to agree with…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:49:12 +1300 popbot https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330483#post330483 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330483#post330483 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:25:06 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330482#post330482 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330482#post330482 The other side of that is the excuse that the OIA is expensive and should be curtailed.

It depends on perspective, really, given the cost of Ombudsmans’ investigations, invoiced or directly funded, could be greatly reduced if government agencies did their jobs and complied with the law in the first…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:20:57 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330481#post330481 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330481#post330481 If the argument for private provision is more efficient or innovative service, I have yet to see evidence of that in this industry.

I have yet to see it in any industry. The only argument for privatising that gets offered is that public bodies are inefficient and, let's face it,…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:10:04 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330480#post330480 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330480#post330480 I have noticed that NZTA and MBIE have got a lot better technically at document redaction over the last three years ;-)

There is a way of extracting redacted data from documents that relies on word length, repetition and probability, unfortunately this method is unreliable at best for redacted sections…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:01:53 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330478#post330478 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330478#post330478 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:52:04 +1300 llew40 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330477#post330477 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330477#post330477 A good piece and thought-provoking. Some thoughts:

a man with a question the public wants answering connecting with the public servant who has the information.

Is it possibly a bit hyperbolic to say that media questions are by definition ones that the "public wants answering"? – thats not always been…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:32:36 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330468#post330468 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330468#post330468 Most people doing these things are smart enough to know that’s possible, and not well trained enough to know exactly how to make sure that there are no traces of the material they want to censor still in the document.

I have noticed that NZTA and MBIE have got a…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:24:28 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330467#post330467 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330467#post330467 (I assume this doesn’t mean run of the mill Companies Office stuff)

Joyce is so petty that nothing would surprise me.

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:22:02 +1300 A S https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330466#post330466 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330466#post330466 The other side of that is the excuse that the OIA is expensive and should be curtailed.

That is commonly claimed, but I don’t personally put much value on those statements. Heatlh and Safety is expensive too, more so than the OIA, but we don’t hear as many complaints about…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:21:53 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330464#post330464 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330464#post330464 there is no transparency between DHB funding and care home costs (allowing care homes to plead poverty & get off the hook on paying above minimum wages)

Indeed and all the while the little shareholder runs gleefully giggling to the bank.
Aged care is becoming the RTZ of the modern world.

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:18:31 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330462#post330462 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330462#post330462 Just tacking an offence with a 2 year max sentence on it would introduce the spectre of transgressing ministers being kicked out of parliament for good,

And turkeys will vote to have Christmas and Thanksgiving twice a year.
Now, where's my fucking pony?

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:13:56 +1300 Jan Rivers https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330461#post330461 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330461#post330461 Needs

The kind of additional outsourcing the government appears to be planning using in the first place the Productivity Commission to investigate the 'market in social care' makes for an urgent need that not only government but those delivering government contracts should be funded (as well as mandated) to respond…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:07:49 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330460#post330460 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330460#post330460 I think that most of the worst transgressors against the OIA actually wouldn't mind if their agencies had to pay for the cost of Ombudsmen.

The other side of that is the excuse that the OIA is expensive and should be curtailed.

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:04:50 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330459#post330459 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330459#post330459 But one reason those people are less inclined to answer now is that they simply don't trust the media to use that open honest answer fairly.


A valid point. I wish I could see something effective we could do to promote fair and honest reporting.

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:00:44 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330458#post330458 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330458#post330458 if the Minister were to fail to acknowledge the request in time, the OIA request would simply proceed despite their inactivity?

Yes. The only reason for informing the Minister is to avoid the "ambush" of Ministers who, like in the case of Helen Clark, are not actually hiding anything, just…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:00:37 +1300 A S https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330456#post330456 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330456#post330456 It is all one way, and it really shouldn't be. Just tacking an offence with a 2 year max sentence on it would introduce the spectre of transgressing ministers being kicked out of parliament for good, and it would spell career death for public servants too.

Houses would be cleaned…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:34:54 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330455#post330455 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330455#post330455 While the discussion here and David's post have rightly focused on the way our government is abusing the OIA act I do think there is a case to be made that the media have to bear some blame for the current state of the relationship.

David describes a past that…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:30:39 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330454#post330454 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330454#post330454 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:27:39 +1300 A S https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330452#post330452 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330452#post330452 I had more of a rant in the other thread, but at the moment I feel that allowing the Ombudsman to invoice agencies for investigations into their OIA handling would go a significant way towards addressing this. On one hand it isolates the Ombudsman’s funding from Parliament, so that it… ]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 09:15:53 +1300 Stephen R https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330448#post330448 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330448#post330448 they would find the material in hard copy (even if it meant printing it out first!), photocopy it, redact the photocopy, scan it as an image and send out PDFs of the images. Which meant I'd have to OCR and correct it myself. They did this after they realised that… ]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 08:14:59 +1300 Matthew Hooton https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330445#post330445 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330445#post330445 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 07:06:17 +1300 mark taslov https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330442#post330442 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330442#post330442 this parrot lives!

Yes Steve, certainly worth considering. even If it only puts the wind up Herr Dunne enough to distract him from his confounded smartphone tapping for just a couple of minutes each day, it would produce more efficient Ministers and a better shot for the unwashed.

Correct me…

]]> Fri, 24 Oct 2014 00:15:45 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330441#post330441 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330441#post330441 Fri, 24 Oct 2014 00:12:58 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330438#post330438 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330438#post330438 Like I said...
Surely the need for Ministers to be aware of the release potentially political damaging information is a no brainer? but we should also place a limit on the amount of time a Minister, or their representative can have to acknowledge such releases, because this will always be…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:45:33 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330436#post330436 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330436#post330436 Wow. I have never seen one of those though I knew something like them must exist.

Try OIAing one of yours. It might be interesting.

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:26:37 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330434#post330434 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330434#post330434 But if you are media, or a successful requester, any request you make is seen as controversial regardless of content, so its got to be knives out from the start.

I was told by a source that anything with my name on it was flagged to the minister (Joyce) before…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:01:48 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330433#post330433 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330433#post330433 I’m surprised we haven’t yet seen more implementation of the OIA’s S15 provisions, to allow charging for processing requests, as an informal deterrent.

They do. It's just not publicised very often. What tends to happen is they say "it's going to cost you this much", you refer it to the…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 22:59:48 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330432#post330432 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330432#post330432 I know it doesn’t always work, especially with many of the situations described here, but if I just want something uncontroversial then I tend to just ask politely before anything else, and with no specific reference to the OIA.

Which works great for uncontroversial queries from uncontroversial people. But if…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 22:53:35 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330430#post330430 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330430#post330430 if you make a polite enquiry and a public servant fobs you off, ask them if that is their final response

I know it doesn’t always work, especially with many of the situations described here, but if I just want something uncontroversial then I tend to just ask politely before…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 22:07:26 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330427#post330427 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330427#post330427 this parrot is dead!
...like a hole in a wall needs Pollyfilla.
Polyfilla
;- )

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:57:01 +1300 mark taslov https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330426#post330426 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330426#post330426 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:41:03 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330421#post330421 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330421#post330421 ask them if that is their final response, because legally they've responded to an OIA request and you can go straight to the Ombudsman.

good tip

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:01:03 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330420#post330420 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330420#post330420 I feel that allowing the Ombudsman to invoice agencies for investigations into their OIA handling would go a significant way towards addressing this. On one hand it isolates the Ombudsman’s funding from Parliament, so that it can be funded for its actual workload to uphold the law against shoddy agency… ]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:47:30 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330418#post330418 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330418#post330418 The suggestion that NASCs are independent organisations is frankly extraordinary.

Really taking the piss, right – and signed off by senior officials.

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:34:04 +1300 Matthew Hooton https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330417#post330417 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330417#post330417 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:28:07 +1300 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330415#post330415 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330415#post330415 Partially, it is because they don't have to do the actual donkey work if an Ombudsmens complaint is lodged (which was always a useful tool to motivate junior colleagues to the do the job right the first time), but largely it does come down to not just Ministers but also… ]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:22:55 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330413#post330413 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330413#post330413 public service corporations tend to be very mindful of their reputation, their public appearance and image,

The only people they are fooling is themselves.

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:41:25 +1300 Marc C https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330412#post330412 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330412#post330412 I respect David Fisher as one of the remaining real, dedicated, investigative and hard working journalists there still are. He raises very valid concerns and points out what has been going on in the public service, and how they deal with OIA requests now.

"David wrote/said: "The shift really began…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 19:22:11 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330408#post330408 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330408#post330408 Agreeing with I/S on this, and further that all inquiries to a government agency or minister are regarded under the act as OIA inquiries, according to the Ombudsman.

Yes. So under the Take No Shit rule, if you make a polite enquiry and a public servant fobs you off, ask…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 18:04:31 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330406#post330406 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330406#post330406 They weren’t refused. They were all met within the specified timeframe.

Good to know.

I totally get your point that OIAs are an important tool for making governments more transparent. It just wasn’t a lot of fun to be on the receiving end of, as a parent volunteer.

I understand…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 18:00:51 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330405#post330405 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330405#post330405 C.J.: I didn't get where I am today by wearing underpants decorated with Beethoven. ]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:35:35 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330404#post330404 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330404#post330404 all inquiries to a government agency or minister are regarded under the act as OIA inquiries

"Nice weather today isn't it Minister?"
"I'll need that in writing.... pleb"

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:31:00 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330403#post330403 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330403#post330403 I suspect it comes back to the idea of the government as a business and the PM as a CEO. Government should not be a business, we have private enterprise for that.

Hey, if they want it that way then they should accept that we, the Public of New Zealand,…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:29:05 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330401#post330401 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330401#post330401 Just thinking about it – isn’t an OIA meant to be the method of communication of last resort.

Agreeing with I/S on this, and further that all inquiries to a government agency or minister are regarded under the act as OIA inquiries, according to the Ombudsman.

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:24:48 +1300 Lilith __ https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330400#post330400 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330400#post330400 I think Clark’s “no surprises” rule was about letting the minister know information was being released before he/she had to front the media on it. Key’s rule is more about “does the minister want this released?”

This.
Also, under Key, ministers seem to consider fronting to the media and/or public…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:22:03 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330399#post330399 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330399#post330399 government information was presumed to be secret

Except it wasn't treated as such by most government departments. For most departments it was expected that inquiries from the public (even journalists) would be answered as openly and honestly as possible.

That has changed and using OIA requests does not change it…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:13:11 +1300 Carol Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330398#post330398 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330398#post330398 if they were refused as such, they were refused improperly.

They weren’t refused. They were all met within the specified timeframe.

Looking back, they probably just hastened the inevitable changes.
It’s very debatable that they were made in good faith in the sense that they were not about finding out…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:07:24 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330397#post330397 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330397#post330397 Just thinking about it – isn't an OIA meant to be the method of communication of last resort.

No. The OIA is supposed to make government more transparent, by making it easier to get information from them (this may shock people, but pre-OIA, government information was presumed to be secret…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:57:33 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330396#post330396 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330396#post330396 They were all made by the same person with the same motivation ..
To be fair, the context was that there were a lot of trust problems at the time between the board, the school management and the school community, as the subsequent ERO report identified. But the use of…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:54:06 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330395#post330395 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330395#post330395 Just thinking about it – isn't an OIA meant to be the method of communication of last resort.

David's post tracks the change leading to it being used as first port of call.

But trying to fight for OIAs to be released earlier and with less political interference would seem…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:53:45 +1300 Carol Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330393#post330393 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330393#post330393 Can you give a rough estimate of what proportion of the OIAs made to your school board were vexatious?

They were all made by the same person with the same motivation ..
To be fair, the context was that there were a lot of trust problems at the time between…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:43:00 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330392#post330392 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330392#post330392 David Fisher's speech in the Herald. And it appears to be in full. ]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:39:43 +1300 giovanni tiso https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330390#post330390 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330390#post330390 I made a series of OIA requests attempting to get at the information. I've copied the last two (which were to different Ministry people because my previous responses came from them) and the final response to dropbox, which you should be able to access via this link.

Thank you Angela.…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:35:15 +1300 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330389#post330389 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330389#post330389 90% of people who voted for National were deranged,
Oh Mass Psychosis your face contorted again, you really must think you are unrecognisable!
Great post Thanks David.

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:22:58 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330388#post330388 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330388#post330388 Key's rule is more about "does the minister want this released?"
That's what ya get with Dictators, power at all costs. That is why I doubt any change for the better under this Government.
I was having a conversation with a Doctor the other day who reckoned that 90% of…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:08:45 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330386#post330386 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330386#post330386 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:49:46 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330385#post330385 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330385#post330385 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:41:04 +1300 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330384#post330384 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330384#post330384 Gradually, we began to suspect we were being screwed in this way as well. Ministers don't like being surprised by anything. OIA requests would be processed – then sent to the Beehive for sign off. I have the flow charts. I see the processes. They require OIAs which are being… ]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:35:30 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330382#post330382 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330382#post330382 It’s a safe bet who the mystery sender is, and thankfully it’s not David Fisher. (HT Giovanni Tiso)

https://twitter.com/gtiso/status/525103439018090497

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:17:03 +1300 Felix_felix https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330380#post330380 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330380#post330380 Thanks Angela, I was about to say that seemed iffy. But I see that you've pointed this out in your final letter: Entities not in the OIA register are deemed to be holding Official Information if they act for/are contracted by entities that are in the register.

No way is…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:51:24 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330379#post330379 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330379#post330379 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:50:11 +1300 Lilith __ https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330378#post330378 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330378#post330378 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:47:45 +1300 A S https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330376#post330376 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330376#post330376 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:45:23 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330375#post330375 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330375#post330375 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:35:41 +1300 A S https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330373#post330373 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330373#post330373 Yep, I agree entirely. My point was that for those who ignored that legal duty, the structure of those requests gave them extra latitude to do so.

You also have to remember that in practice, your average public servant is not permitted to pick up the phone and call media,…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:29:18 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330370#post330370 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330370#post330370 Another reason, and I suspect this doesn't apply to you, is that so many of the requests I have processed over the years were terribly written, and gave those very same people just the reasons they needed to refuse to supply information.

Sure (and you only have to look at…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:22:52 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330369#post330369 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330369#post330369 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:19:43 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330368#post330368 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330368#post330368 We now use amazing analytical tools.

I would love to know what they are ;-)

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:18:28 +1300 A S https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330367#post330367 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330367#post330367 Speaking as someone who has had long-term experience on the receiving end of OIA requests, things have definitely changed, and not for the better.

While much of the process remains the same, and any half-way competent official can readily identify and collect in one place all the information that relates…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:14:31 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330366#post330366 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330366#post330366 It should also be acknowledged that OIAs can also be used in a vexatious way as well. Our school board had experience of this.

Truly vexatious requests can be refused. The barrier is rightly high because those in power tend to see inquiries by citizens or those they are in…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:12:06 +1300 Carol Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330364#post330364 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330364#post330364 It should also be acknowledged that OIAs can be used in a vexatious way as well. Our school board had experience of this.

Vexatious in the sense that the motivation was not about finding out the information – which would have been readily available had the person simply asked for…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:09:55 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330360#post330360 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330360#post330360 I made a series of OIA requests attempting to get at the information. I've copied the last two (which were to different Ministry people because my previous responses came from them) and the final response to dropbox, which you should be able to access via this link.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xqjdqsmq1lhclb7/AAAgE7UCzVSKV6XUF70EQCoSa?dl=0

The format…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:51:56 +1300 Juha Saarinen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330359#post330359 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330359#post330359 Apart from incessant OIA delays – sometimes even having simple questions automatically turned into OIAs "for the sake of process" – isn't it marvellous how certain government agencies and departments wait until the last business day before a major public holiday to release information and important decisions?

Excellent post, David.

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:49:53 +1300 Adam H https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330358#post330358 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330358#post330358 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:36:34 +1300 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330357#post330357 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330357#post330357 Meanwhile, we can still get the message heard... (via Action Station)

Sign open letter on dirty politics
Royal Commission into Dirty Politics

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:26:10 +1300 Paul Brislen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330354#post330354 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330354#post330354 Lovely piece, David. As ever.

I'm in the odd position of having made OIA requests myself and having had OIA requests sent my way in my role on a school board.

We went out of our way to find all the information asked for in the time frame allowed, but…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:53:37 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330352#post330352 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330352#post330352 My thanks to Russell, David & his employer for making this available.
Is it not a bit strange that the Herald hasn’t made the transcript available themselves on what seems an important & newsworthy matter?

Tim Murphy was actually the first to retweet the link to yesterday's post, where I mentioned this…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:44:42 +1300 jon_knox https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330351#post330351 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330351#post330351 My thanks to Russell, David & his employer for making this available.
Is it not a bit strange that the Herald hasn't made the transcript available themselves on what seems an important & newsworthy matter?

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:03:06 +1300 giovanni tiso https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330350#post330350 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330350#post330350 a claim that Needs Assessment and Service Co-ordination Agencies (NASCs) which are contracted to the Ministry of Health to gatekeep resources are not subject to the OIA.

Do you have a link to your OIA request about this anywhere?

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:55:29 +1300 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330349#post330349 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330349#post330349 Thanks David, I'm an ordinary citizen, not in the media and this piece helped me to understand what has happened over time and why my own experience with the OIA was what it was.
I don't trust them any more either. I was straight in my OIA requests, clear as…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:52:15 +1300 Idiot Savant https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330348#post330348 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330348#post330348 I don't think fears of lazy "gotcha" journalism in any way justify this sort of erosion of our democracy, and any public servant who thinks it does should resign. They are accountable to us. Anyone afraid of that has no place in the New Zealand public service.

If they are…

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:46:25 +1300 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330346#post330346 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330346#post330346 Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:22:59 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330345#post330345 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-david-fisher-the-oia-arms-race/?p=330345#post330345 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:22:59 +1300