Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: Confessions of an Uber driver

Pao Montenegro

Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:45:29 +1300

Thanks, Ben! I have asked Uber and they mentioned something about not needing to register for GST if the revenue is going to be under 60k. However apart from the GST, I have no clue what or how much will have to be set aside for tax purposes. I haven't…

BenWilson

Sun, 26 Feb 2017 16:16:39 +1300

Sorry, no one's written a guide as far as I'm aware. Try the NZUDA Facebook page for free advice, if you think such a thing is a good idea when it comes to taxes. Personally I think you'd get what you paid for. But you may be able to inquire…

David Hood

Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:17:03 +1300

Oh, so Uber's self driving car project seemed to be built on plans stolen from Google. That's going to end well.

https://medium.com/waymo/a-note-on-our-lawsuit-against-otto-and-uber-86f4f98902a1#.cet824g44

Pao Montenegro

Fri, 24 Feb 2017 09:05:26 +1300

Anyone here have a tax guide for Uber drivers in NZ? Thanks :)

BenWilson

Wed, 25 May 2016 17:44:23 +1200

It would certainly seem more clear cut, because the crimes that the people are being caught for certainly are crimes, as laid out quite clearly in acts of parliament. Copyright violations are far more nebulous crimes, full of jurisdictional issues. But driving passengers for hire or reward without a P…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 25 May 2016 17:30:23 +1200

It's an odd stance, because I would have thought, and it would be good if one of the distinguished lawyers on PAS could clarify, that by encouraging and benefitting from people breaking the law, Uber are a party to the offence. But maybe that doesn't apply to traffic offences?

(It…

BenWilson

Wed, 25 May 2016 17:18:07 +1200

Not sure if this got posted already. It's NZTA clarifying its position that Uber drivers without the compliance are breaking the law.

Note that they undertake no remedy against Uber whatsoever, despite clearly acknowledging what the current situation is. Their only recourse is to go for the drivers.

I think…

BenWilson

Tue, 24 May 2016 10:23:12 +1200

Some probably have. But no, those that are organizing are growing in number quite rapidly. It's a long fight, though. A marathon, not a sprint. If you're referring to this thread, there's a new one: Here

goforit

Mon, 23 May 2016 20:16:18 +1200

have the Uber drivers given up the fight with Uber

goforit

Fri, 20 May 2016 16:20:26 +1200

Just a change in subjuct. Drivers be aware of BP Ellerlise and give it a wide berth, that service station excessively overcharges it fuel prices, the other day I was charged 50% more for my fuel than the price normally charged at other BP Service Stations in the Auckland region.

goforit

Tue, 17 May 2016 21:47:38 +1200

when I started driving back in the day, the flagfall was $0.40, the time was $0.05 and the rate was $0.15 per mile. Uber will soon have you back to those rates. Except the costs don't drop fuel was $0.45 per gallon now its over $8.00 per gal. A brand…

Russell Brown

Tue, 17 May 2016 16:54:54 +1200

its not the drivers whom are part of the ponzi scheme, its the funding side

Not necessarily. Amazon went more than 20 years without recording a meaningful profit. But last quarter it reported $513m of profit on revenues of nearly $30 billion.

Uber says it's now profitable in North America,…

Russell Brown

Tue, 17 May 2016 16:42:55 +1200

It’s also cheaper, although the above points mean that a lot of people would prefer it, even if it wasn’t cheaper.

I would, in most cases.

But I must say, the new fares are appealing. I can get to K Road or back for less than $13, which does make…

BenWilson

Tue, 17 May 2016 15:34:44 +1200

That's my position in a nutshell. Uber is mostly better than taxis, particularly for when you have to call it rather than just get in one that's waiting for you. The app conveys several advantages in safety and convenience and customer service, and provides the driver with safety and convenience…

Bob van Ruyssevelt

Tue, 17 May 2016 11:54:34 +1200

As any marketer will tell you ideally the No 1 in a business will be the most expensive and make the most money. The Uber model is far superior to the old taxi model and with just a small discount to the rates of the main players should be making…

goforit

Mon, 16 May 2016 16:39:51 +1200

its not the drivers whom are part of the ponzi scheme, its the funding side, drivers are just pawns in the game where they should be the major players.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 15 May 2016 19:28:39 +1200

It's also a shitload of money, so it's not so clear why they need such an aggressive policy. I think they literally just don't know any better.

The likes of Uber CEO Travis Kalanick are basically 21st century railroad barons.

BenWilson

Sun, 15 May 2016 19:18:44 +1200

Actually when you think about Uber it runs the worlds biggest pozi scheme.

It doesn't really need to be a Ponzi scheme. It just runs that way now while they're growing market share. But there is real work being done at the bottom, so it's not like a Ponzi scheme…

goforit

Sun, 15 May 2016 19:04:43 +1200

the bottom line is and this includes Uber, when shareholders money is used to prop up any busness at some point the busness breaks down due to the fact those shareholders at some time in the future expect a return on their money invested. I Ubers case when they need…

Russell Brown

Sun, 15 May 2016 09:27:22 +1200

Looks like the model isn't going away. Apple has just invested $1 billion in the company behind China's top ride-hailing app:

Investing in Didi Chuxing allows Apple to grab a foothold in the Chinese tech market that reaches beyond iPhones—and also gives it a new platform for its other technology.…

goforit

Sat, 14 May 2016 19:11:46 +1200

hi Ben, I just read an article about fare rates in LA, they are $0.90 per mile that is approx $0.55c per km. I thinks yours could even drop lower in the future.

BenWilson

Sat, 14 May 2016 17:05:35 +1200

hope you are keeping up the fight with uncle Gubber(Uber)

Oh, yes. That I am.

goforit

Sat, 14 May 2016 13:26:28 +1200

Update on the Ezygo app, Ezygo have contacted me to comfirm their web page is being rebuilt and the app itself is of course linked to this, they assure me the app will be back operating as soon as the web page is ready.
When I hear more I let…

goforit

Fri, 13 May 2016 15:28:24 +1200

I do agree over that one with you, just spoken to them and the web page was put on the back burner while the app itself was beinf developed. Apparently the web page will be completed over the weekend.

Brent Jackson

Fri, 13 May 2016 14:33:16 +1200

Their website is absolutely crap at giving any information, which actually makes me not that interested.

goforit

Fri, 13 May 2016 13:59:52 +1200

I have just been given more information on the Ezygo app if anyone is interested.

goforit

Fri, 13 May 2016 11:21:01 +1200

only taken them two years, let hope they carry through this time

Stephen R

Fri, 13 May 2016 06:14:40 +1200

NZTA are starting off fairly gently...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/79938132/nzta-issues-17-official-warnings-to-noncompliant-uber-drivers-with-one-ordered-off-the-road

goforit

Thu, 12 May 2016 20:48:50 +1200

Good news for the underpaid Uber drives, if you have a P endorsement, A proper PSL, area knowledge cert', GST regrisation and COF the EZYGO app is up and running.
Rates are $1.85 per km and commission to the app is only 10%. The best part is non app jobs…

goforit

Wed, 11 May 2016 18:27:43 +1200

thats what I thought, where with a P endorsment it is 20 years another breakdown of the regs

BenWilson

Wed, 11 May 2016 18:11:02 +1200

I'm not aware of one. It would presumably be dictated by how young one could get a full driver's license and hold it for 2 years. What's that? 18?

goforit

Wed, 11 May 2016 16:56:38 +1200

Ben, what sort of minium age limit have they imposed on these new drivers ?

goforit

Wed, 11 May 2016 14:08:55 +1200

Hi again, every thing has gone round in a big circle, the argument over insurance is very simple its the same argument over the provisions of the Transport Act. If you are for hire and reward there is laws covering this and insurance to cover this.Any driver who does not…

BenWilson

Wed, 11 May 2016 13:03:59 +1200

I know this because I'm getting a steady stream of confused young guys who come to the driver pages trying to get the truth. Being honest young fellows, some of them, they called the NZTA to find out what the law was and got the baffling answer that not one…

BenWilson

Wed, 11 May 2016 12:59:36 +1200

My own one puts all the liability on me, and I’m pretty sure it’s pro-forma what everyone gets, even the newbies who are being signed up at a massive rate every day for the last 3 weeks. So yeah, the letter of the agreement says Uber doesn’t have to pay…

Stephen Judd

Wed, 11 May 2016 08:05:17 +1200

Ben, don't you some kind of written agreement with Uber? Does it describe any indemnity, compensation, or similar language for loss, damage, and legal liability while driving? If not, there's your real problem.

BenWilson

Tue, 10 May 2016 22:43:13 +1200

So, Uber would have to cover you because they’d told you they would, no?

Who knows? Would you want to test that one in court?

ETA: I'm not sure I'd want to be holding Uber to a policy they never gave me any copy of. What am I even holding…

FletcherB

Tue, 10 May 2016 22:27:45 +1200

Uber’s response was that they have their own insurance policy to cover any claims that are refused by the other insurance companies

Seeing as Uber will not supply any policy details on this, It means they are not supplying any reasons why it might not apply in any particular instance...…

BenWilson

Tue, 10 May 2016 21:38:17 +1200

Who knows? If you don't have a copy of a policy, you effectively don't have a policy. You have a gratuitous promise. Obviously the real reason you can't see the policy is because it would be an absolute disaster for Uber if anyone hostile got their hands on it.

goforit

Tue, 10 May 2016 21:02:20 +1200

of course you beleive uncle Uber has this so called policy

BenWilson

Tue, 10 May 2016 20:31:46 +1200

Had some fun stuff come in today. Since Uber no longer require you to have commercial vehicle insurance, drivers inquired as to whether the insurance companies would actually pay out, given that you'd be driving commercially. Uber's response was that they have their own insurance policy to cover any claims…

goforit

Tue, 10 May 2016 19:29:13 +1200

Now you see why there are P endorsments, PSL and Ato's in the system, Uber is trying to get every thing hidden from the authories, that is NZTA, Nz Police, IRD, WINZ etc. there has to be identification and responsibilites. The taxi industry has these fly by nighters who think…

BenWilson

Tue, 10 May 2016 18:37:49 +1200

Yup. Their response that they're "still working on generating an invoice" is a little bit laughable when we all know it's a computer generated thing that comes instantaneously. Furthermore, it's not code that needs to be written. It's code that they would have had to unwrite to get it to…

goforit

Tue, 10 May 2016 18:00:56 +1200

they are very wrong, if a customer requests a GST receit it must be given, under the $50.00 dollar mark an ordinary receit is acceptable by the IRD, but as said if the customer requests a GST one is has to be given. Uber is really pushing the envelope on…

BenWilson

Tue, 10 May 2016 17:53:59 +1200

I get this response automatically to my request in the rider portal to get an invoice:

"If you’re in New Zealand:

For uberX rides costing less than $50, tax invoices are not required by the Inland Revenue Department. If your ride does cost more than $50 or it is for…

goforit

Tue, 10 May 2016 17:40:13 +1200

Under NZ taxation regs, if a business has a turnover of $50,000.00 per year or more GST has to be applied. Uber definally has a turnover in excess of $50,000.00 per year, therefore it has to account for GST. It has nothing to do with how they descripe their busness,…

BenWilson

Tue, 10 May 2016 17:26:59 +1200

I can get a GST invoice on older trips from the rider portal. But any recent trips give an error message like this: "We are still working on generating an invoice for this trip. Please check again later. If you still require support regarding invoices please press the button below…

goforit

Tue, 10 May 2016 14:45:38 +1200

When I was with Uber their statements at that time just "Tax included" mind you that could have mean't anything, I was under the impression that all their transactions where GST included. Due to that fact plus I am GST regristered I paid GST on their work as well as…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 10 May 2016 14:35:08 +1200

So Uber isn’t charging GST? I can’t find any reference to this on invoices (so if they are charging GST, it’s illegal).

I suspect the IRD is going to drop a very large bucket of poo on them. Not a tax expert, but I think the revenue would have no…

goforit

Tue, 10 May 2016 13:54:38 +1200

Ben look forward to your forthcoming statements

goforit

Tue, 10 May 2016 13:53:42 +1200

Hi Rich, there are two problems with that idea, firstly even you as a Uber must do the odd job outside the Uber app and therfore no record especially if its a cash job so withholding tax can become a problem, secondly Uber to come under such a regulation would…

BenWilson

Tue, 10 May 2016 13:18:44 +1200

Yup, it's a bit of a conundrum for public transport that Uber has got so cheap that it's actually less costly to a customer to get picked up and driven 2 at a time into the city than to get in a bus, with all the farting around before and…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 10 May 2016 10:32:32 +1200

The tax avoidance is easily dealt with – there are already a bunch of activities where the IRD requires the employer to withhold tax from contractors – they just add taxi driving/"ridesharing" to this list.

If Uber then refuse to pay, then they instruct the banks (there's probably a law…

goforit

Mon, 09 May 2016 20:41:37 +1200

I been watching the Uber app for the past week and I see they are playing a game called put the carrot in front of the driver with continually moving the surge around Auckland, I seed cars racing to the surge area and when they reach the area the surge…

goforit

Mon, 09 May 2016 20:38:20 +1200

In principal you are right Ben, but the reality of it Uber does not want any regulation at all, if they where to back down especialy here in NZ where the taxi industry is already an open shop it sets an presidint that would effect there world wide fight to…

BenWilson

Mon, 09 May 2016 19:55:38 +1200

Well, they threaten to, anyway. It might be a bluff worth calling in NZ, since up until 3 weeks ago, there was hardly any trouble with compliance at all. This is a manufactured crisis. In reality there was and still is no shortage of people willing to take on the…

goforit

Mon, 09 May 2016 13:56:39 +1200

Hi, I guess which side of the fence you sit on, protecting the public or just letting anyone have access to the public. Strange isn't it? When ever Uber is forced to follow the regulations in any given area they just stop their service.

BenWilson

Sun, 08 May 2016 23:36:49 +1200

Which logic? The public logic in requiring fingerprints to be collected, or the private logic in deciding to remove all services from Austin because the public voted on a law in a way they didn't like?

Sacha

Sun, 08 May 2016 18:37:27 +1200

A public ballot in Austin, Texas represses Uber and Lyft services somehow by requiring driver fingerprints. I don't quite grasp the logic.

goforit

Fri, 06 May 2016 15:36:17 +1200

Ben what you need to do is to think of UBer work as fill in work and look to the other sectors of the passenger transport service to buld up the more profitable work, use one to off set the other. but until you have your own PSL no one…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 06 May 2016 13:16:16 +1200

I see the Victorian* cab monopoly is fighting back. With limited success.

(Cab licenses in Melbourne go for several hundred thousand – not surprisingly, getting a cab is near impossible).

* Place not era. Although in the case of cabs, place *and* era.

BenWilson

Fri, 06 May 2016 07:33:48 +1200

Ben talking about taxes did you get the point I made you are not responsible for the payment of any taxes as thats the responsibilty of the PSL holder

Can I ask you to email me? Use the little envelope icon to get my address. Really keen to discuss this…

BenWilson

Fri, 06 May 2016 07:30:52 +1200

when Uber is surge pricing the Uber work nearly stops and 15 mintues after the normal fares return the work kicks back in.

Absolutely. The canny passengers know to wait surges out. Drivers flock extremely rapidly and the surge dies, then they book at normal rates.

BenWilson

Fri, 06 May 2016 07:29:44 +1200

Fares can only be refused for specific reasons

Yes, anyone with a P Endorsement got taught this.

When a taxi driver down a small hire they are turning down profit. There is more many in short jobs than long ones. Tell you more later

You don't need to, that's already…

goforit

Thu, 05 May 2016 20:44:11 +1200

hi again, price is the main factor the less they spend on transport the more they can spend elsewhere, this is human nature, you may have noticed (thats before the price drop) when Uber is surge pricing the Uber work nearly stops and 15 mintues after the normal fares return…

goforit

Thu, 05 May 2016 18:48:52 +1200

Ben. What you see on ponsonby rd is not the taxi industry it's the dregs of the industry. Fares can only be refused for specific reasons. When a taxi driver down a small hire they are turning down profit. There is more many in short jobs than long ones. Tell…

BenWilson

Thu, 05 May 2016 17:31:08 +1200

Now you proberly get an idea why taxi meters are set where they are, everyone needs to be able to live off the work they do, its not all about the customers getting a really cheap deal.

Quite. From conversations with a lot of riders, I'm surprised how often the…

goforit

Thu, 05 May 2016 17:25:35 +1200

Very true, the small passenger transport service even before Uber was over loaded with vehicles and that not only counting taxis there are all sorts of passenger service vehicles out there. The pie will only support so many feeding off it

Kumara Republic

Thu, 05 May 2016 16:52:14 +1200

Now you proberly get an idea why taxi meters are set where they are, everyone needs to be able to live off the work they do, its not all about the customers getting a really cheap deal.

Especially when a lot of taxi drivers happen to be migrants who, for…

goforit

Thu, 05 May 2016 16:29:29 +1200

Hi Ben, actuall employed drivers are very rear these days due mainly to the very low profits of the small passenger transport system, companies like Uber have driven prices down which of course has been followed by most operators (even taxi services are effected). In the past the wage was…

BenWilson

Thu, 05 May 2016 16:14:09 +1200

They sure aren't and will probably realize this sooner rather than later.

I'm curious whether you can give me an example of a firm that pays a wage to someone driving under their PSL? It seems like the kind of thing that you could only do with someone who had…

goforit

Thu, 05 May 2016 15:38:16 +1200

Ben the employment agreement is only a cover to give the appearance of being above board. Unless you are the actual named holder of the PSL you have to give the appearance of being employed by the PSL holder, remember Uber is not the law of this country

goforit

Thu, 05 May 2016 15:30:50 +1200

Bob, answer to your question, seeing you have your own PSL use it, save yourself the 5% the company is charging you to use someone elses PSL. The company cannot subcontract as they are currently doing, when the new regulations become law anytime in the next two years or so…

BenWilson

Thu, 05 May 2016 15:25:40 +1200

You need an employment agreement, the PSL holder needs a wage book as legally you can only work for wages and the PSL holder needs to collect the PAYE off you and pay the IRD monthly.

I would be surprised if any Uber drivers are working in this way. Paying…

Bob van Ruyssevelt

Thu, 05 May 2016 14:56:19 +1200

I have actually passed the requirements for the PSL but I have not uplifted the certificate because although I am registered with Uber I am technically contracted to the company which owns and leases to me my vehicle. Uber pays them and they pay me. Therefore I am entitled to…

goforit

Thu, 05 May 2016 14:49:56 +1200

I fully understand where you are coming from, to complete the process and to completely hide the fact you are subcontracting (this is against the current regs) you need to have a paper trail, the car, hp agreement (if you have one) and insurance needs to be in the name…

BenWilson

Wed, 04 May 2016 23:45:31 +1200

You're asking a very hard question goforit. It's likely that what you're saying is technically correct, but, like the metering, it borders on the unenforceable, because it involves an enforcement officer reading an employment contract on the side of the road. Believe me, this one has me worried. It was…

goforit

Wed, 04 May 2016 22:53:02 +1200

Just reread the blogs. I see you do not hold your own PSL but use someone else's for 5% of the take. Think you need to take another look at the Transport Act. You need your own PSL to operate a passenger service on your own behalf. The fine for…

goforit

Wed, 04 May 2016 20:31:34 +1200

Are you saying one can operate your own car by using another person PSL. I was under the impression unless you are actually employed to drive for the PSL holder you must have your own PSL. Maybe I have been given wrong information.

BenWilson

Wed, 04 May 2016 20:01:12 +1200

There is no legal way to bypass the PSL, goforit. You either get one yourself by passing the Knowledge of Law and Practice course, getting police vetted again, and paying for it. Or you work under someone else's one, carrying with you proof of your arrangement with that party.

Or…

goforit

Wed, 04 May 2016 19:46:16 +1200

hi Ben, you have certainly gained a lot of knowledge in respect to Uber. I agree with you on the subjuct of P endorsements and COFs, reading through you blog i noticed or think I have you have found away to by pass the PSL you as a owner/operator should…

BenWilson

Tue, 03 May 2016 16:31:20 +1200

Not Not Agreed, isn’t Agreed To Not. I was there. I minuted the damned meeting, it never happened.

Gah, too clever by half. First not should be "Note".

We barely discussed going on strike. That's way too premature.

BenWilson

Tue, 03 May 2016 16:17:39 +1200

Way back I did some work for the Ministry of Transport because someone noticed that sharing a ride…

That’s interesting, BeShakey. How long ago was that? What was your involvement?

BenWilson

Tue, 03 May 2016 16:14:39 +1200

I can tell you for sure, that the Uber drivers have not agreed to strike. Not Not Agreed, isn't Agreed To Not. I was there. I minuted the damned meeting, it never happened.

BenWilson

Tue, 03 May 2016 16:13:12 +1200

But I’m sure Andrew Geddis will explain how that would exceed their powers, leading Idiot/Savant to ask how that would be unusual.

Classic! First laugh I've had today, thanks!

Moz

Tue, 03 May 2016 15:08:27 +1200

people wouldn't make a fake Uber app that instead erases the phone

That would be hilarious. I'm tempted to make one just for the humour value. Think of the laughs when all the drunken punters hit "wipe my phone" instead of "get me home" on a Friday night.

Appropriately, this…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 03 May 2016 10:53:03 +1200

Quite a good idea really – people wouldn't make a fake Uber app that instead erases the phone, destroying any evidence the cops might have been looking for in the first place.

Moz

Tue, 03 May 2016 10:14:20 +1200

It's what makes it so hard for enforcement to do anything about Uberers. They are nearly invisible against the general population of cars.

Surely enforcement is less of a "swoop squad" and more "download the app, get the Ubnik to come to you"? If anyone is in a position to…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 02 May 2016 21:39:09 +1200

It seems that the simmering Uber controversy is in danger of proving Ned Ludd right. I've come to the view that the original Luddites weren't opposed to technology, but rather they were opposed to rentier feudalism.

Specifically with Uber, far from cutting out the middlemen – ie the taxi industry…

Sacha

Mon, 02 May 2016 21:30:18 +1200

My thanks Alfie for linking to relevant articles. Much appreciated.

Alfie

Mon, 02 May 2016 21:01:28 +1200

The Herald reports that upset Uber drivers are threatening to strike.

BeShakey

Mon, 02 May 2016 16:50:57 +1200

I might be (a little) to blame for this one. Way back I did some work for the Ministry of Transport because someone noticed that sharing a ride with a couple of mates and giving them a few dollars for petrol was illegal. The law was changed so that 'passengers'…

Russell Brown

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 13:05:35 +1200

Got your eye in spotting P endorsements yet?

It was very prominently displayed :-)

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 12:01:22 +1200

Yes, the rider app can be used to find Ubers. I'm not even sure that we do disappear when we have passengers. At least, several times I've watched the rider app whilst on a fare, and a ghost car has shadowed me miles out into the burbs – I presume…

Bob van Ruyssevelt

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:47:26 +1200

Enforcement officers can download the passenger apps which will show where unhired cars are waiting. More of a problem though to spot cars with passengers.

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:43:08 +1200

Yes, in case it wasn’t clear, I think Uber’s defence that they are now “Ridesharing” is total bullshit. The law in NZ is clear. If you drive for hire or reward, you must have a P Endorsement. It really is that simple. Uber thinks that some weasel words about my…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:05:12 +1200

taken for a ride…?
I don’t get Uber’s ‘Ridesharing’ defence/stance – surely that would involve the driver intending to head in the direction the non-driving ‘sharer’ wishes to go?
I think Ben alludes to that earlier on. If the driver is going solely where the passenger wants to go that…

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:52:56 +1200

The Transport Agency has a minor problem because Uber cars are unbranded.

It's not a minor problem. It's a major problem. It's what makes it so hard for enforcement to do anything about Uberers. They are nearly invisible against the general population of cars. Of course anyone trained to know…

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:48:38 +1200

It's an easy mistake to make because they confusing use the word "License" to refer to the business license. Don't confused "Passenger Service License" (PSL), with P Endorsement.

A compliant driver needs evidence of both. The P endorsement is what lets you drive for hire, and it is also printed…

Alfie

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:40:15 +1200

Shame on Stuff for their plagiarism.

However I think Uber is wrong. You're still carrying passengers "for reward" which requires a P license, rightly in my opinion.

Uber's tactic is pretty straightforward... saturate the roads with Uber vehicles and outnumber the existing providers. The Guardian story pretty much shows that's…

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:39:04 +1200

Got your eye in spotting P endorsements yet?

Russell Brown

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:18:08 +1200

I had a discussion about all this with my driver home last night. He was concerned.

Russell Brown

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 10:15:57 +1200

You have misquoted Geoff Cummings – he said company employees do not need a Passenger Service Licence (if the company holds one) not that they didn’t need a P Endorsement on their driving licence.

Oops. Thanks for pointing that out.

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 09:06:45 +1200

Amelia Wade has picked this story up in the Herald. Good article.

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:42:02 +1200

Aha, good pickup. That makes a lot more sense now. Oh, and welcome to Public Address!

Bob van Ruyssevelt

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 03:54:34 +1200

You have misquoted Geoff Cummings – he said company employees do not need a Passenger Service Licence (if the company holds one) not that they didn't need a P Endorsement on their driving licence.

BenWilson

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 03:30:44 +1200

You are right about that. I should really have said “however much more to get it back to the same”. It’s a bit of a magic unknown formula to me at the moment, because the question of empty returns comes up. If you are getting a lot more jobs, then…

Bob van Ruyssevelt

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 02:51:16 +1200

I concur with your views Ben but not your maths. In order to recover a 20% rate cut you need to do 25% more work (and that doesn't really cover it as you have 25% more costs as well). You will not know that this is the second 20% rate…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:29:27 +1200

OK, gentlepeople, I'm going to hit the road again, to literally get the word from the street. I think from today's events that further posts would be interesting? I feel that the next blog on what Uber drivers get paid would be of interest, although this is a hell of…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:19:59 +1200

I get that the passengers are sharing the cost with each other. That's different to what has happened in taxis since they were drawn by horses?

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:18:26 +1200

Uber's comeback.

TLDR: We're not stopping.

Longer version. We've rebranded from being a passenger service to "Ride Sharing".

Man, I wish we did actually have ride sharing in NZ. I'd use it. But unfortunately, when someone books an Uber ride with me, I have to wait until they get in…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:18:08 +1200

Stuff have just 'broken' this story!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/79443348/uber-drivers-operating-illegally-in-new-zealand--nzta
No mention of the fact that they probably are just piggybacking on Radio NZ's picking up your story this morning – damn cheeky if you ask me trying to pass this off as their own work...

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:56:41 +1200

Yay!

Good info in there as to what letting a private third party do your police vetting leaves out.

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:55:20 +1200

It left me pondering when is regulation a good thing and when should convenience trump all?

Very tough question. Obviously, I wouldn't be an Uber driver at all if I thought that disrupting existing businesses is a terrible thing. But yes, there's still got to be a boundary at which…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:48:03 +1200

license owners haven’t even needed to drive, just sit back and be rent-takers

Indeed. That's not the feeling I've had from my own license holder. He worked extremely hard to get a great many drivers on the road for his cut, talking all of them into compliance, training them on…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:37:26 +1200

you’d have to say that any traditional taxi business will be rooted.

Obviously they're very worried. But they do still dominate the market. Uber hoovering up the little rides, and possibly competing strongly on the suburbs-to-city rides doesn't stop taxi drivers having significant advantages. Only they can sit on a…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:33:49 +1200

Until the '70s and the building of ski resorts, Queenstown was a village of 1,000 or so people. Tourism is it's industry and reason to exist.

Alfie

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:59:51 +1200

I was listening to an item on RNZ the other week about the Air BnB experience in Barcelona, the net result of which was un-limited accommodation available in the city.

Barcelona has suffered more than most cities from the increasing popularity of AirBnB. Thousands of locals have been evicted from…

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:27:50 +1200

__The taxi drivers I know all paid between $20k and $50k to buy into their business. That’s quite an investment which takes years to pay off. If the government allows Uber to operate illegally, it’s the equivalent of sticking a big bureaucratic finger in the faces of thousands of registered…

Katita

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:22:44 +1200

Thanks for the post Ben, it makes really interesting reading. I worked (many a year ago now) at the Ministry of Transport in the division that licenced and enforced taxi companies/ operators. Believe it or not I used to attend Tribunal hearings where those buying into the business had to…

Alfie

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 16:10:14 +1200

I’m agreeing with you Ben and I didn’t suggest the purchase of shares was a compliance cost. I was making the point that taxi drivers do have to front up with this sort of money to buy into their business, and if the NZTA turns a blind eye to Uber’s…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:59:32 +1200

OK, I'll amend my statement to simply "it's not a compliance cost". It's buying the goodwill of a business, and an asset (the car) too. I don't count buying my car as a compliance cost. To set up a transport service, all you need is a Transport Service License. Then…

Alfie

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:41:55 +1200

That $20-50k was not compliance costs, it was pure profit to the taxi empire they were buying into.

This may be different in Auckland where the company may own all of the cars and merely employ drivers, but it’s not correct for the taxi drivers of my acquaintance, Ben. In…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:35:12 +1200

I’m sure Uber has some good drivers, but when they can offer to make people instant taxi drivers for just $25 with few safety checks and no compliance to the existing law, something smells bad.

I have to reiterate, that until Thursday, most Uber drivers (outside of Christchurch) were very…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:30:20 +1200

Re Uber Assist – do you know if there are any plans for Uber to become part of the Total Mobility scheme?

I'm not aware, I'm sorry. It would be awesome.

I am a wheelchair user myself who would consider using Uber but given I can get 50% off using…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:21:26 +1200

Why not?

Above my pay grade, that one. Question for NZTA? Or the Minister? Or a lawyer?

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 15:14:42 +1200

The NZTA has just announced that it will prosecute individuals who do not hold a P licence.

This has been their position all along, of course. As it should be.

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:57:08 +1200

I wonder if they've considered introducing another specialised service for those of us who miss the 160kph+ antics of European taxi drivers. UberFast (TM) would require drivers to provide a suitably hopped up vehicle (Subaru WRX, BMW M3, that sort of thing) and treat any speed limits as a minimum…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:07:16 +1200

Thanks Hilary...been flat out on my non-Uber life for a couple of hours. Will try to address questions for a bit.

Alfie

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:36:37 +1200

You've certainly stirred things up Ben. The NZTA has just announced that it will prosecute individuals who do not hold a P licence.

While Uber drivers operating without a passenger endorsement could face a $10,000 fine, the spokesman said the NZTA wasn't currently taking legal action against the company itself.…

Angela Hart

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:53:16 +1200

I'm jealous of these guys ability to get around on a beach. They are so lucky! Thanks ACC.

Hilary Stace

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:44:21 +1200

There is a specialist wheelchair taxi service in Wellington consisting of one man and a van. I think most of his work is via Total Mobility. He is very nice and helpful and gets to know his regular clients and their particularly needs. This is a good model for a…

James Green

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:33:10 +1200

While I do love the Uber experience, a lot of things I've read (thanks for that post from the Guardian), make me more lukewarm to corporate Uber.

And then to wonder whether Uber themselves may be disrupted. Perth is trialling small self-driving electric buses, and the company that builds them…

Rosemary McDonald

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:30:59 +1200

I would ditch taxi companies completely unless I was going somewhere which could only accommodate a regular wheelchair (I mostly use a power wheelchair to get around). The availability of taxi mobility vans is so limited,

...and even for those lucky enough to have their own accessible vehicle, there can…

Erin

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:04:35 +1200

Re Uber Assist – do you know if there are any plans for Uber to become part of the Total Mobility scheme?
I am a wheelchair user myself who would consider using Uber but given I can get 50% off using taxi companies, it doesn’t really seem worth my while.…

Alfie

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:31:36 +1200

This discussion is slightly academic to me as I live in Dunedin and Uber doesn’t operate here, yet. But I was upset when I heard that the government appears to be effectively fucking over thousands of local taxi drivers in an effort to please an international business.

I must confess…

Hilary Stace

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 09:47:48 +1200

Up now. That was very interesting. Good to hear your audible voice (as opposed to the written one)

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201798845/transport-agency-warns-uber-drivers-could-be-breaking-law

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 09:32:37 +1200

How do we link that?

Hilary Stace

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 09:12:37 +1200

Ben explaining all this on Radio NZ's Nine to Noon right now. So multi-media!

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:42:40 +1200

Do you have the complimentary bottle of water thing in NZ?

I do it myself, but there's no Uber policy about it. My wife talked me out of being el cheapo and just filling used bottles myself, so I buy them in bulk as a deductible expense. Surprisingly few people…

oga

Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:21:08 +1200

That's a good tip about the fare review. I use my Uber account to book cars for my partner to go to work and back (in Mexico City), so my account has been used twice a day six days a week. About 30% of the time (usually later in the…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:06:56 +1200

Well people, I'm gonna hit the road now. Replies will be intermittent at best, I hope, until tomorrow.

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:02:50 +1200

There's a lot to like about it. I was a convert after the first ride. Like most riders, I was concerned about how it was possible for the income to be reasonable when the prices were so low. But the drivers told me it was because they got a lot…

Eediot

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:22:52 +1200

Great, and topical, post, Ben. Thanks.

Without wanting to sound just like a pro or anti post, my worst Uber experience was also my best. I always check the route and get a fare estimate before booking and was taken on a ridiculously circuitous route in Sydney a couple of…

Martin Brown

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:15:30 +1200

Re safety, one thing I do like with Uber is the information provided re. time, route, car type and driver’s reg. It’s emailed to the account holder and not only stored on their server somewhere. That’s quite reassuring. And I don’t get any of that from the supposedly regulated services.

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:52:09 +1200

There is so much to like as rider.

And as a driver! I want it to stay that way.

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:50:14 +1200

yet I’ve spoken to a couple more recently who reckon their turnover has increased since the drop. Go figure.

Yes, I'd kind of like to leave off the discussion of the fairness of the rates and what it will mean and focus on the compliance side here. But rest assured,…

James Green

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:45:52 +1200

I have always avoided taking taxis as much as possible, except when travelling, and even then as an emergency measure — I have even taken an intercity taxi ride, after missing a public transport connection which would have meant missing a plane flight. And Lisbon. Lisbon taxis were ubiquitous and…

John Farrell

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:25:26 +1200

Oh, YOUI!

http://www.interest.co.nz/insurance/80813/youi-firing-line-current-and-former-employees-detail-explosive-claims-about-culture

Martin Brown

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:53:39 +1200

I take a lot of cabs and always have as I don't drive. I felt bad about their 20% drop as I felt I was already getting great value and the minimum fare seemed...barely fair. A couple of drivers I spoke to immediately following were a bit pissed off, mainly…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:57:32 +1200

I took out full commercial insurance, with YOUI, who have experience in dealing with Uber drivers.

As for licensing, yes, you have to change the category to a commercial vehicle, and then get a COF. They're a little bit more expensive, but it's not much, really. Getting the vehicle to…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:40:00 +1200

The additional insurance cost goes to making Uber driving rather less viable as a little earner for just a few hours a week.

..and what about ACC payments?

Ritchie Sims

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:09:27 +1200

Did you upgrade your vehicle insurance? I checked with my insurance company, they would have needed me to upgrade from private use (about $600 annually) to commercial (about $1600 annually), so I've parked the idea for the time being. Also, does it make any difference to the vehicle licensing (rego)…

Dan Salmon

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:51:02 +1200

There's deregulation and deregulation I guess.
Interesting in that context to see this posted on facebook...

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:18:04 +1200

Finally, they could go to Uber with a search warrant – they have offices here?

Good luck with that! I only know where the room that they sign people up in is. Where the rest of their NZ infrastructure is, is anyone's guess.

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:15:51 +1200

Proper police checks and so on, yes. Which Uber also did, until last week. Most Uber drivers today are still compliant, by a big margin. But this could be rapidly changed. I understand that it’s getting as high as 20 new drivers a day recently because the compliance drop has…

Dan Salmon

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:55:05 +1200

Thanks Ben. (yeah edited the post when i realised the original idea had been broached in a comment i'd missed)
That's really informative. I'd assumed that reputable companies (nowdays) would keep a track of their cars (even just to protect their drivers), and check references and police check their drivers,…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:43:19 +1200

Oh, and of course one of the other protections is related to cost, so I'll put that separately here. The driver literally can't rip her off, aggressively demanding some arbitrary fare at the end. Drivers have no control over the charging at all, except in so far as starting and…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:37:49 +1200

you’re talking about Uber giving them a list of their illegal drivers, and a list of every trip they do?

Well, they claim to do a police check, so the police/MoJ will already be getting a list of everyone checked (whether it's legal to take police check requests and use…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:34:52 +1200

Stepping outside the cost issue, the question i keep coming back to, is if my 14 year old daughter was catching a cab home at midnight would i prefer an uber driver or a reputable cab company, and without some sort of regulation there’s very little protection.

Yes, I’m hoping…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:19:25 +1200

I’m surprised they’d want to bugger this up, but maybe they’re propertarians and not happy unless fighting the evil guvmint..

Yeah, it seems they were just biding their time, and our compliance honeymoon is over. I doubt they did it without a conscious plan. It's not like this is the…

Dan Salmon

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:16:51 +1200

Does the p endorsement offer any protection to our teenage daughters choosing between ubers and reputable cab companies?

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 13:05:25 +1200

The cops could bust every illegal Uber driver without leaving the warmth of their office, which must be an attractive prospect.

You're talking about Uber giving them a list of their illegal drivers, and a list of every trip they do? Ain't gonna happen by Uber's choice. I have no…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:57:19 +1200

IANAL, but isn’t Uber, by encouraging people to drive without a P endorsement, itself a party to each offence?

This is the discussion I was most hoping would erupt here. IANAL too. But there are plenty heaps of lawyers who read here....please comment!!

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:53:12 +1200

- IANAL, but isn’t Uber, by encouraging people to drive without a P endorsement, itself a party to each offence? Kim Dotcom is being nailed to the wall for a lot less..

– If Uber is actually checking police records, then there’ll be a record of every request which could…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:06:43 +1200

I reckon that if you want to be a professional driver and carry passengers, you should need to do an advanced driving test and some form of local knowledge test – not London taxi standards, but knowing local landmarks, motorways, etc.

Yes, area knowledge, which used to be mandatory for…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:01:11 +1200

he wasn't confident about the SH16 > Southern motorway transition

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:59:39 +1200

Would that affect my rating as a rider?

No. Cancelled trips affect neither party's ratings. They typically involve higher cost for Uber, though, because a support person has to try to work out what happened and take some action. Emails have to be written, responded to. Manual changes to charges…

Russell Brown

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:43:51 +1200

No. But you can cancel any that don’t, and that is a perfectly fair reason to do so.

Would that affect my rating as a rider?

And also: is there anyway I can choose my driver? You know, maybe I'm prepared to wait for that driver I like...

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:39:02 +1200

Nothing to do with the actual driver but definitely soured the whole experience.

I can't say I'm a fan of it myself. Mostly because it sours the experience, but also because the surge pricing is very weak information on how to maximize earnings. The idea is to encourage drivers to…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:26:28 +1200

No I meant that they driver in a safer manner on the roads :).

Oh, LOL. Yeah. Guilty as charged there. Real pressure comes on drivers to break the road rules. But Ubers are not even slightly exceptional there. That's taxis generally. When getting to jobs the pressure is on,…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:13:13 +1200

You got Surged!

Yeah I know. It was a combination of me misinterpreting the multiplier and the estimated base cost being ~100% wrong – all on my first use of Uber. Nothing to do with the actual driver but definitely soured the whole experience.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:09:11 +1200

Driver safety

No I meant that they driver in a safer manner on the roads :).

Gosh aren’t those no U-trun signs annoying and WTF are those dotted yellow lines on the side of the road there for anyway

signed grumpy of Mt Roskill

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:07:26 +1200

No. But you can cancel any that don't, and that is a perfectly fair reason to do so. From communications directly to drivers querying what the hell is going on, it seems like Uber are going to look for this, and might reconsider their position if enough customers act this…

Miche Campbell

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 11:05:37 +1200

Is there any way to specify in the app that you will only accept a driver with a P endorsement?

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:45:59 +1200

If Uber lowered the safety standard for it’s drivers I would use an alternative. No question. I am totally not an overprotective mother.

Clearly not! Your daughter has a lot of power to make this change untenable for Uber. She just has to refuse any driver that won’t show a…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:42:45 +1200

Where is tax levied on each ride transaction (including GST)?

Drivers are responsible for all their own taxes. You are charged GST, built into the fare. It's a good question, and I can't speak authoritatively on this until I've done my first terminal tax return because I quite simply don't…

EAColeman

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:37:34 +1200

I put uber on my 15 yo daughter's phone so she can get around the city at night safely after gigs. Easy, cheap and gets charged to our credit card and receipts are emailed – no worries about cash being spent on RTD's (not that my angelic child would do…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:35:39 +1200

I’d recommend using uberASSIST, the new option launched a few weeks ago. It guarantees you a driver with a very high rating who has attended the uberASSIST course, and is likely to be helpful and patient. The fares are identical. But the vehicle is no different to uberX. So it…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:28:36 +1200

taxing taxis…
… all users have registered with a credit card. Also, I don’t have to carry cash....
Done: Invoice is in the mail. Corporate users love it.
Where is tax levied on each ride transaction (including GST)?
Does the ‘parent’ Uber handle all these transactions – will all monies…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:20:44 +1200

And you don’t get anyone doing a runner on arrival.

Yup, although that's not so much a safety issue as a convenience one. A really big convenience. Cuts both ways too. No one has to reach for their wallet. People just get in, get driven, get out. Done: Invoice is…

Hilary Stace

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:17:53 +1200

So if you had a disabled child or adult who needed a ride somewhere would you recommend Uber generally? Or just those who did the P training?

Russell Brown

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:14:00 +1200

Also, I don’t have to carry cash.

And you don't get anyone doing a runner on arrival. One driver told me he felt that was the best part, compared to his previous taxi work.

Russell Brown

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:12:17 +1200

You got Surged! Topic for another post. It’s definitely not uncontroversial. Riders hate it. Drivers love it. But it’s pretty much a lottery. About 1/20th of my fares are comprised of extra surge charges. I don’t have the stats, but gut feeling is that the possibility of surge adds roughly…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:55:26 +1200

well if it is meant to ensure that taxi drivers and uber drivers are safer on the roads

It's meant to ensure the passengers are safer. Driver safety is via other processes. Taxis have their security cameras. Uber has the app, with location tracking, and the fact that all users…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:52:36 +1200

You got Surged! Topic for another post. It's definitely not uncontroversial. Riders hate it. Drivers love it. But it's pretty much a lottery. About 1/20th of my fares are comprised of extra surge charges. I don't have the stats, but gut feeling is that the possibility of surge adds roughly…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:44:55 +1200

I've had two uber rides. One paid for by a friend. And the one that makes me doubt I will use Uber again. Essentially the multiplier (which I misinterpreted) combined with a ludicrous "estimated cost" meant we paid roughly three times what a taxi would cost.

I have no problem…

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:13:16 +1200

Surprising fact: taxi drivers who are company employees don’t need a P licence. Weird.

I'd like to see his source on that, because as far as I know, it's not true. So long as you drive passengers "For Hire or Reward", you need it.

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:04:49 +1200

A suggestion mooted to other drivers (yes, we are starting to organize) was to advise passengers to use their own powers to make protest. It seems more likely to have an effect on Uber than anything the drivers could say or do otherwise. Our ability to complain to management or…

Russell Brown

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:58:43 +1200

I feel the same way, but I’m not clear on how to require that.

By the way, Geoff Cumming's 2014 Herald story on the taxi industry is a very informative background read. Surprising fact: taxi drivers who are company employees don't need a P licence. Weird.

Jean Hughes

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:50:36 +1200

Sorry but having a P endorsement should be the bottom line. I will be asking that my Uber driver has one when I use them.

Public Address

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:50:36 +1200

Discussion from blog post.