Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: Confessions of an Uber Driver III: How do I rate?

Russell Brown

Sun, 12 Mar 2017 16:19:56 +1300

There doesn't seem much point in keeping this thread open. Closed, then.

goforit

Sat, 11 Mar 2017 16:15:47 +1300

Looks like the likes of Ben and company have given up on the Uber discussion, its a pity as there one sided view point actually always supported Uber even though they thought ot had the opposite effect. Maybe they come back

goforit

Wed, 08 Mar 2017 10:05:03 +1300

https://www.rt.com/viral/379765-uber-wooden-chairs-kazakhstan/

Came across this, guess lack of regulation and just do it yourself LOL

Ben Austin

Mon, 06 Mar 2017 23:51:34 +1300

The FT ran a story today based around an apparent increase in Uber executives seeking new employment.

_ "For employees at Uber, quitting the company often means walking away from restricted stock units or stock options worth hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars in Silicon Valley’s most highly…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 05 Mar 2017 10:21:11 +1300

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/technology/uber-greyball-program-evade-authorities.html?hpw&rref=technology&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

goforit

Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:29:16 +1300

The thing I cannot understand is the so called value of Uber, I run a business and if I was to value it, my value would be what someone else would be prepared to pay for it not the value of the money I had put into it. Investors may…

David Hood

Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:17:09 +1300

According to the NYT, where Uber said their self-driving car was under control of a human when it ran a red light in San Fransisco, it was actually self-driving at the time.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 26 Feb 2017 20:42:53 +1300

Their point that the business doesn't have economies of scale is a good way of summarizing why it must eventually break. They didn't actually make driving a taxi magically cheaper. They just worked out how to squeeze worker balls in a way that's taking a few years to unpack.

If…

BenWilson

Sun, 26 Feb 2017 16:22:56 +1300

Yes, it seems to be unraveling. I don't think that app based ride booking is going away, since it is actually a good idea. But Uber seems to be blowing their chances of a future, banking everything on technology that has not been invented yet. They had a perfectly good…

goforit

Sat, 25 Feb 2017 08:34:34 +1300

this sums things up nicely http://jalopnik.com/uber-is-doomed-1792634203

goforit

Tue, 21 Feb 2017 20:38:32 +1300

Looks like the great Uber idea is showing signs of self destruction. Most regulating authories around the world appear to have woken up to what Uber and other outfits whom think they have invented the wheel for the first time that all these outfits are doing are giving the regulators…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 21 Feb 2017 03:53:54 +1300

Yeah I just came across it too, and everything it says resonates with their behaviour in every way to every complaint ever made to them. It's a Trumpesque, however frantically they are trying to disassociate from The Orange Vortex.

In other words, they're only sorry that they got caught in…

BenWilson

Mon, 20 Feb 2017 17:35:33 +1300

Sacha

Mon, 20 Feb 2017 14:29:29 +1300

snap. That's a great post about how bad the head organisation is on the inside.

Hugh Wilson

Mon, 20 Feb 2017 12:48:10 +1300

https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber

Sacha

Sat, 18 Feb 2017 17:06:20 +1300

Driver-focused business model powers Uber competitor in US.

Kumara Republic

Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:50:16 +1300

Has parody turned to farce? We were joking about flying cars and Ubers last year as like the next level of ridiculous. Nek minnit, it’s what they’re claiming. Should we start a pool on the next technology? Add to this list:
-Uber Hover cars for competing with ferries
-Uber plus…

BenWilson

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:22:51 +1300

They are getting pushed out of many countries, and in some cases the management are being arrested. I think it's end of days for them. Which is usually the time an Empire looks strongest and most unassailable – right before it falls.

Yes it's quiet here. I've got another job…

goforit

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:28:16 +1300

I think over this coming year Uber is going have to work very hard at convicing the money people to part with more giveaway money to throw down the drain now they appearto be coming psychotic in there ideas. LOL

BenWilson

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 10:47:49 +1300

Has parody turned to farce? We were joking about flying cars and Ubers last year as like the next level of ridiculous. Nek minnit, it's what they're claiming. Should we start a pool on the next technology? Add to this list:
-Uber Hover cars for competing with ferries
-Uber plus…

goforit

Fri, 10 Feb 2017 08:06:50 +1300

Hi Ben, the world of Uber appears to have gone very quiet, I get the feeling that there forward movement (puff) around the world has slow down. Self driving cars and trucks have taken a beating and the new diversion appears to be flying taxis LOL.
Any news on your…

BenWilson

Mon, 23 Jan 2017 14:53:46 +1300

Not sure what he’ll be doing for Uber, but their days of not-very-smart programming might be ending.

I can't speak for how it operates everywhere, either. Proper road network databases may be much more developed for them elsewhere. I'm surprised they don't just buy one from Google or one of…

stever@cs.waikato.ac.nz

Mon, 23 Jan 2017 09:03:10 +1300

Maybe their software sophistication is changing, though.

I say this only because one of the speakers we invited to APSEC 2016 at Waikato last year had been working for Samsung...and he's just been snapped up by Uber.

He's a very smart person who deals with designing very sophisticated methods for…

BenWilson

Sun, 22 Jan 2017 17:52:29 +1300

Not that I probably need to tell goforit this, but for the benefit of everyone else it needs to be known that no driver is ever actually presented this contract by Uber NZ people. Nor are they ever made aware that they will be contracting to a third party. As…

BenWilson

Sun, 22 Jan 2017 17:32:42 +1300

In the taxi industry we have rules around this issue, the rules apply to contractors, employed drivers and shareholders etc. Failure to carry out an accepted order unless there is a justified reason fines apply. The fine is usually in excess of the fare value.

Uber do it simply as…

BenWilson

Sun, 22 Jan 2017 17:17:03 +1300

I am of the opinion once one has accepted a job that person has made a contract with the hirer, the only reason for cancellation is a break down and then the hirer should be contacted to be informed why they have been cancelled.

There's far too many issues built…

BenWilson

Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:45:51 +1300

It’s a well known problem. I’ve written algorithms that attempt to solve it without doing a full Dijkstra walk through the road network for each location pair.

Me too, and that was in the 1990s. Now they can do it with a thousand times more computing power than I had.…

BenWilson

Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:42:48 +1300

Surely that information must raise alarm bells with the thousands of other illegal Uber drivers operating in NZ?

It very much depends on whether Uber simply picks up the tab. One this is pretty clear though – left to their own devices, it's pretty much at their pleasure if they…

goforit

Sun, 22 Jan 2017 13:38:57 +1300

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jan 2017 19:11:43 +1300

after acceptance cancel the job for a better one

If I was running any of those companies I'd ban that behaviour right away – erodes customer trust really fast. But then I guess it is harder to pretend a driver is an independent contractor?

Alfie

Fri, 20 Jan 2017 17:47:03 +1300

Meanwhile in the US Uber has paid $20m to settle claims it misled drivers over how much they would earn.
The FTC alleged that most Uber drivers were earning far less in 18 major US cities than Uber published online. Regulators also asserted that drivers wound up paying substantially more…

goforit

Fri, 20 Jan 2017 15:11:05 +1300

I found this article interesting as well, the point that struck me is why both Uber and Zoomy employ drivers that pick and choose especially after acceptance cancel the job for a better one. I am of the opinion once one has accepted a job that person has made a…

Alfie

Fri, 20 Jan 2017 10:28:19 +1300

For those who haven't read it yet, the venerable Russell Brown has penned an excellent piece for the Herald comparing Zoomy to Uber.

I was interested to read the comment from Ben that the Uber driver who crashed into parked cars is up for $27k in damages. Surely that information must…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 19 Jan 2017 13:20:41 +1300

It's a well known problem. I've written algorithms that attempt to solve it without doing a full Dijkstra walk through the road network for each location pair.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:39:44 +1300

being assigned as the closest car to someone in Downtown when the driver is in Devonport

Classic – same error as Coop's Aussie-built system had years ago.

BenWilson

Wed, 18 Jan 2017 10:52:34 +1300

The pickups are frequently at places that are not addresses

Just by way of example, two times I've been directed by both Uber and Google Navigation (which Uber launches if you choose it) to pick people up from the side of the motorway on the approach to the Harbour Bridge…

BenWilson

Wed, 18 Jan 2017 00:24:45 +1300

If I’m using it in town, I’ll need to pay either parking or a few extra kms for it to drive out on its own to someplace with free parks.

The first solution will work now. It uses less petrol and puts the same amount of cars on the road,…

goforit

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:02:51 +1300

Back to the taxi issue, today I purposely worked the Eden Tce and CBD areas of Auckland, I give it 7 hours and not one single phone order or in the case of the CBD not even a hail. I spoke to drivers from various companies to get there views…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:12:40 +1300

Well, no. My current car costs maybe 40c a km to operate. A real taxi is $3-4. Plus, I can taxi into the city easily enough, but suppose I want to go out to the Rimutakas and go hiking – it'll cost a fortune and getting a ride back is…

Silke Hartung

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 12:38:33 +1300

That is so bad! I've actually driven with Sreeman a few times and from what I remember he was friendly and a good driver. :(

BenWilson

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 12:04:50 +1300

Oh, hang on, soz. You specifically only meant:

- or I don't own a car at all, and just send for one when I need it

Which is pretty much what I said before. This exists, and is thus not innovative but for the one amazingly unvisionary part of taking…

BenWilson

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 12:02:16 +1300

So there's a modern version of the same thing, which is to let your car out to a taxi driver. Consider how appealing this sounds now, and multiply it by a factor of illegality, low prices, and no human to look after your car while they're in it.

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:19:11 +1300

I don't think the point is replacing human driven taxis by manual ones for taxi journeys.

It's more that:
– a huge number of people currently own a car
– self-driving cars will eventually happen
– if I take my self-driving car into town, I probably won't leave it in…

BenWilson

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:16:34 +1300

I agree that there are lots of question marks over self driving cars but am less sure that consumer willingness to use these would be the deal breaker so to say.

Yes, and also the question of whether they're technically viable at all, and if so, at what cost, none…

Hugh Wilson

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:18:11 +1300

Well, in fairness to the Vox piece – and I am not an Uber expert – it did frame the strategy as being somewhat 2 part: First win the market on price and convenience factors, second margins via uptake of self driving cars … I agree that there are lots…

BenWilson

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:29:16 +1300

The difference between Uber and Amazon is that Amazon were not relying on the biggest breakthrough in the history of robotics to make their business model vaguely viable (it's still not clear how much those cars are going to cost or who will pay for them all). That is one…

Hugh Wilson

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:02:36 +1300

Not sure if this was posted already (haven't read all comments!) but this is a good read on the overall picture for Uber viz some reported heavy losses during 2016:

http://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/1/9/14194202/uber-lost-22-billion-9-months

BenWilson

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:14:54 +1300

Gah, math fail. 6,000 * $500/week = $3,000,000/week in fares for Uber. They take 20-28% so it's only $600,000 – $840,000 per week. So $93,000 doesn't even represent a single day of their operation.

I can't know if $500/week is accurate. I just base that on the idea of doing…

BenWilson

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:28:48 +1300

Uber cars appear to carrying now more passengers than taxis.

Very hard to be sure about that. It looks that way to me, but they might not be taking that much away from taxis, it may be that demand massively increased due to the lower prices. I find it hard…

BenWilson

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:19:20 +1300

The last couple of days I have done a drive throughthe CBD of Auckland for several hours in business hours and have noted the increase of Uber cars in the area.

Yes, it's very likely. It's a pity that the journo in the article you link to didn't pick up…

goforit

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 21:51:34 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/88259563/illegal-uber-drivers-hit-with-93000-fines-as-company-continues-to-ignore-licensing-laws

The last couple of days I have done a drive throughthe CBD of Auckland for several hours in business hours and have noted the increase of Uber cars in the area. Uber cars appear to carrying now more passengers than taxis. Taxis generally speaking appear to be stationary and…

goforit

Sat, 24 Dec 2016 08:49:08 +1300

The heads of corporate and I guess you mean Co Op as the Taxi Federation is not an ATO but a body of representation of some of the ATOs that maybe only represent approx' 20% of all taxi operators. They all need membership to maintain there organisations management structure so…

BenWilson

Fri, 23 Dec 2016 20:09:07 +1300

If Uber has decreased the volume of Taxi work by 80% then why did the heads of Corporate Cabs and the Taxi Federation tell me they could barely detect the effect of Uber, and Blue Bubble say they are down maybe 10%? If you give me a link to some…

goforit

Fri, 23 Dec 2016 19:20:41 +1300

Yes I did mean the operators both in the taxi and private hire field. Uber has greatly decreased the volume of work to the taxi industry somewhere in the vincinity of 80% over the 24hr period, where in the earth do you think the bulk of Uber work came from…

BenWilson

Fri, 23 Dec 2016 17:46:12 +1300

in the meantime all the poeple not playing the game coreectly are fucking it for the operators who do play correctly

I'm not sure if that's entirely true. If by the "operators who do play correctly" you mean the taxi industry generally, then the impact of Uber would seem to…

goforit

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 20:59:58 +1300

If they’re giving Uber a free pass, then it’s way above my pay grade.

Thats it in a nut shell, but in the meantime all the poeple not playing the game coreectly are fucking it for the operators who do play correctly.

goforit

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 20:56:51 +1300

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Land/Documents/Small-Passenger-Services-Supporting-Regulations.pdf

Here is the proposed law changes so far.

BenWilson

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 18:00:07 +1300

I draw the line at getting involved in chasing people up for their taxes. This really is someone else's job. Similarly with chasing up whether this car crash has been properly investigated. If this country has reached the point where neither the IRD, nor the police are prepared to go…

David Hood

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 15:11:59 +1300

California's conditions to onerous for Uber.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/21/uber-cancels-self-driving-car-trial-san-francisco-california

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 12:36:49 +1300

Have you tried filing a report to IRD for GST evasion?

BenWilson

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 12:25:53 +1300

To answer any such questions requires engagement from someone who knows what they are talking about. It is quite literally impossible to ever get that from Uber. They do not have front line staff who understand tax law or obligations at all. None of them have ever been drivers or…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 11:21:09 +1300

Are many Uber drivers GST registered now?

There are two possibilities with GST:
– Either, as Uber pretend, they are supplying a service to the driver who treats independently with the passenger. In that case:
=> If the driver is *not* GST registered, Uber has to collect GST on their…

BenWilson

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 10:56:23 +1300

We have very similar problems with GST here. AFAIK, IRD is still trying to get their heads around what to do about it, which isn't helpful to all the drivers who have to fill out GST returns every couple of months.

Pretty sure ACC is not being paid by pretty…

BenWilson

Thu, 22 Dec 2016 10:51:46 +1300

But isn’t amazing how the information around this crash has been hushed up.

I'm not one to be overly conspiratorial about that. I'm sure Uber would like it to go away but police inquiries are not things conducted in public for good reason.

Ben Austin

Wed, 21 Dec 2016 23:01:48 +1300

Looks like Uber UK (if such an entity actually exists ! ;) ) may have some issues with local VAT (Value Added Tax – UK/EU wide)

https://waitingfortax.com/2016/12/20/thats-one-uber-vat-problem/

goforit

Wed, 21 Dec 2016 19:42:34 +1300

But isn't amazing how the information around this crash has been hushed up. The information I am getting is mainly hearsay but I do get the impression it was passed off as a private car accident on the night of the accident but the details will come out eventually.

BenWilson

Wed, 21 Dec 2016 18:35:50 +1300

If they’re a fully uncompliant driver (we’ll probably know soon enough) then no, they will not.

I'm now certain (from inquiries made) that the vehicle was non-compliant. This story is certainly going to grow.

BenWilson

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:03:41 +1300

It's worth noting that Uber driving is probably more tiring than regular taxi driving too. In a busy night I don't get to stop at all until I actually log out. The system is efficient enough to give you back to back jobs right through 5 hours. So working that…

BenWilson

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 17:57:32 +1300

There are quite a few guys doing what I would consider excessive hours. The law mandates no more than 70 in a week driving passengers and Uber does claim to enforce this one. But the other mandated parts of work time are completely ignored by them. That includes the 14…

linger

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 12:48:05 +1300

all the hallmarks of a driver falling asleep at the wheelWhich is of course what you'd expect with an exploitative system forcing drivers to work longer hours than is safe — so it's all the more suspicious that other cases haven't come to public attention before.

linger

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 12:33:41 +1300

hide the fact that they were Uber driving at the timeWhich might partly explain the immediate response of the passengers in this case to leg it, despite their injuries! Though it’s also true that they were close to their destination, and that they were extremely drunk.
The only reasons this…

BenWilson

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 11:54:07 +1300

Is this New Zealand’s first serious Uber crash?

I think we can be pretty damned sure that it is not. Statistically, that is extremely unlikely – Uber drivers have done over a million trips in NZ.

But we have not heard about them. I suspect this is because the drivers…

BenWilson

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 11:51:43 +1300

The reaction from the insurance companies should be secondary to the Transport Act as after all the insurance companies liabilities will be covered in policies held by the driver of the Uber vehicle.

If they're a fully uncompliant driver (we'll probably know soon enough) then no, they will not. The…

Alfie

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:51:44 +1300

Is this New Zealand's first serious Uber crash? Whacking into a parked car is not a good look. Was the Uber driver involved fully licensed? Did the Uber vehicle have a COF?

Given Uber's well-publicised disregard for NZ law, you might expect the Herald journo to have asked those questions.

goforit

Tue, 20 Dec 2016 09:53:04 +1300

I guess the Unlicensed Taxi Service Drivers Association has spoken. This is the prefect opportunity for the Minister of Transport to instruct both the NZTA and the NZ Police to fully do their jobs in respect to the actual law and not Uber's Law or any other organisation's Law. The…

BenWilson

Mon, 19 Dec 2016 22:04:12 +1300

Will be very interesting to hear the full details of this crash. Bears all the hallmarks of a driver falling asleep at the wheel.

Will also be very interesting to hear whether the 3 cars that got smashed up will be covered, and by whom. A driver without commercial insurance is…

Sacha

Mon, 19 Dec 2016 18:17:38 +1300

Uber believes San Francisco autonomous vehicle testing rules do not apply to them either. Ooops.

BenWilson

Mon, 19 Dec 2016 15:14:16 +1300

None of the disputes are about deactivation. They're about arbitrary change and misleading inducement into contract.

goforit

Mon, 19 Dec 2016 15:01:18 +1300

Well Uber has gone to a great deal of time and expense when all they needed to do was to reactivate any driver who pushed the issue, especially with Uber's very lose contractual arrangements, LOL

BenWilson

Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:40:59 +1300

Ben are they still side steping that court action of yours.

I can't speak in too much detail, since the cases are sub judice, but so far there have been 3 adjournments. Uber sought the first one at the last minute, and the drivers sought their own ones in the…

goforit

Sun, 18 Dec 2016 16:41:58 +1300

It just Uber saying "we do not intend to agree to any regulations especially those that may prevent us from being controled in anyway" Looks like Simon Bridges has been given more power to fuck things up even more in the new line up under Bill English.

Alfie

Sat, 17 Dec 2016 15:24:35 +1300

Displaying what's becoming a familiar arrogance, Uber says it will ignore the California DMV's demand that they seek an autonomous vehicle testing permit for their self-driving cars.

While Simon Bridges proved to be a naive walkover for Uber, I'm not sure the San Fran authorities will feel so well-disposed towards…

goforit

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 12:23:01 +1300

Good on Uber and all the persons involved, its your organisation you choose to work with, so all this bulls^^^t Uber puts on reflect on all its personnel. Ben are they still side steping that court action of yours.

BenWilson

Fri, 16 Dec 2016 02:33:27 +1300

Naturally, as with every complaint to Uber, there is no way to ascertain whether their claim to have disciplined the human driver even happened at all. And if it did happen, there is no way that the person being disciplined got any kind of natural justice. Their method of distancing…

goforit

Thu, 15 Dec 2016 17:20:43 +1300

Never the fault of Uber's dream of the future lol.

David Hood

Thu, 15 Dec 2016 17:04:57 +1300

When self diving cars misbehave, blame the people.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/14/uber-self-driving-cars-run-red-lights-san-francisco

goforit

Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:48:12 +1300

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-traffic-Uber-Lyft-SFMTA-blame-10791265.php
One of the so called positive things Uber say it helps with traffic congestion, but not in a good way by this article.

goforit

Mon, 12 Dec 2016 17:15:35 +1300

Its even worse than what stated up above, the return distance has to factored in, when thats added in the driver is losing at least 0.40c/km. Good on Uber making the driver pay for part of the trip as well as the passenger, good business model.

Alfie

Mon, 12 Dec 2016 09:31:45 +1300

By my calulations even without allowing for the time factor and converting miles to kilometers look like the rate per km is approx 50c.

Then according to the IRD's Mileage rate for self-employed people they're losing 22c for every km they drive.
The mileage rate for motor vehicles is 72…

goforit

Mon, 12 Dec 2016 09:03:26 +1300

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/11/uber-driver-breaks-record-397-mile-journey-virginia-brooklyn/

When one looks close at this fare Uber drivers in this country are really well off. By my calulations even without allowing for the time factor and converting miles to kilometers look like the rate per km is approx 50c.

goforit

Sun, 11 Dec 2016 18:38:42 +1300

But yet they still drive for Uber, only have themselves to blame.

Sacha

Sun, 11 Dec 2016 17:32:09 +1300

More on the UK select committee report – calling out Uber for its reliance on "sweated labour".

One driver told [Committee Chair, Labour's Frank] Field: “Yesterday my hourly net income fell to £2 an hour. I made £40 cash, then had to put in £30 in petrol.” Another described his…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 10 Dec 2016 19:56:34 +1300

Guy Standing, who's warned of the emergence of the new precariat, cites Uber as an example of rent-seeking as applied to the Internet of Things.

goforit

Fri, 09 Dec 2016 14:06:05 +1300

Bang on Ben, it has certainly reduced ":he did that" and "she did that" and fully backs up or shows what or did not happen. Has saved a lot of drivers from having their P endorsements instantly removed and the bad drivers removed from the industry. Mind you Uber takes…

Alfie

Fri, 09 Dec 2016 12:32:15 +1300

Naked Capitalism is running a series of five stories delving into “Uber’s Ponzi-scheme economics”. Hopefully they may contain some interesting data for Ben and others researching Uber’s practices.

Link: via BoingBoing

BenWilson

Fri, 09 Dec 2016 11:29:00 +1300

Cameras? I'm convinced they would be of great benefit to drivers. Therein probably lies the reason that Uber is against them.

goforit

Fri, 09 Dec 2016 11:14:42 +1300

I see Uber is issuing instruction re flirting in Uber cars. Why does not the great Uber organisation take note how the taxi indrustry has handled these situations and its very sipmle to put under control.

goforit

Sun, 04 Dec 2016 12:37:06 +1300

http://www.dawn.com/news/1300112/denmark-files-charges-against-uber-over-illegal-business
Look at this, The Danish can do this, makes you wonder?

goforit

Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:56:53 +1300

That is what I had presumed, of course if uber keeps on flooding the market with more and more drivers the amount recovered from the passengers has to be increased to maintain the income. Thats the realality of this so called free market place. The cake is only so big.

BenWilson

Fri, 02 Dec 2016 22:32:55 +1300

I could only presume that the author was basing that on a considerably higher driver income than what has become normal. Which would be nice.

goforit

Fri, 02 Dec 2016 21:21:50 +1300

I read that article and was taken back by the amount of 4 times the price to be profitable and I presume that both Uber and its drivers, if we compare that to the average taxi fare in Auckland that would be twice the average price of an taxi fare.

BenWilson

Fri, 02 Dec 2016 17:36:20 +1300

That seems highly plausible to me. It's already about half the price of the cheapest alternative except Zoomy, which is running the same model. Which will crack first is the only question. Zoomy have deep pockets behind them too.

Sacha

Fri, 02 Dec 2016 15:57:20 +1300

Its business model is buying market share using speculative capital and then pretending to be a sound business

A transport analyst reckons it's not even able to be profitable without hugely jacking up fares once competitors have been driven out of business.

BenWilson

Fri, 02 Dec 2016 08:34:10 +1300

I wonder if the Uber model would have expanded rapidly and been accepted by the public as a cheap option as it has.

I'll go out on a limb and say absolutely no way. Its business model is buying market share using speculative capital and then pretending to be a…

goforit

Fri, 02 Dec 2016 07:54:32 +1300

All parts of the act needs to be read to have the overall picture. The proposed chages to the act will take care of the issues mentioned by having only one form of small passenger service. Uber wants all the regulations dropped even though they where the one that asked…

BenWilson

Thu, 01 Dec 2016 21:20:06 +1300

No what I meant was that you could split hairs over what charge would stick to the parent corporation. The charges that can and have stuck to many drivers are ones defined in the act. Metering like a taxi probably could stick too, if any officer was prepared to slot…

goforit

Thu, 01 Dec 2016 20:56:16 +1300

we split hairs over it being a taxi service or a private hire service

This is the reason why your group is not taken seriously, when your members operate outside the act it is spitting hairs but when your parent company operates outside the act they are naughty as. Its…

BenWilson

Thu, 01 Dec 2016 09:19:54 +1300

In NZ Uber is an unlicenced and non approved taxi service.

That's probably the closest charge that could stick to them. But whether we split hairs over it being a taxi service or a private hire service, neither option makes it some mystical new form of economic model for the…

goforit

Thu, 01 Dec 2016 08:56:54 +1300

All sectors of the passenger transport service are ride share, in other words the passengers share a ride with the driver. Always remember Uber started off as Ubercab, then when told they could not operate as a taxi changed the descripton to private hire service and when questioned on that…

BenWilson

Wed, 30 Nov 2016 19:30:09 +1300

But this is not to detract from your point of the higher moral ground that those apps sit on, the unlevel playing field that they are operating in. It reeks of partiality that NZ transport operations, illegal or otherwise can and have suffered harsh penalties for violations of the exact…

BenWilson

Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:53:04 +1300

Yeah, if you include complying with the Operator Licensing Rules. I think they could have significantly pushed back if their apps were not actually quite shit, though. Dispatching is based on who got to the general area first rather than who is actually closest and wants the job. Then there's…

goforit

Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:31:22 +1300

Uber already applies pressure to there drivers here who use the use of other taxi type apps which is bit of a cheek as the taxi typeapps are the only fully compliant apps to the current transport act.

BenWilson

Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:21:17 +1300

This is highly likely to play out in Auckland soon, with Zoomy.

David Hood

Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:15:45 +1300

Saw this reporting about the uber/juno struggle in New York:

http://www.recode.net/2016/11/28/13768756/uber-driver-deactivation-juno-advertising-new-york

BenWilson

Wed, 30 Nov 2016 11:55:50 +1300

Yes. Also the media* still has not cottoned on to the existence of legal Uber drivers. Somehow, they have still completely missed the fact that it is possible to legally drive, and the only thing stopping Uber from signing up drivers that way is that they are unwilling to comply…

goforit

Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:25:44 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/87000172/uber-drivers-closer-to-being-lawful-as-government-looks-to-fasttrack-legislation
Look at this, bribes must be flowing again.

Sacha

Fri, 25 Nov 2016 13:45:27 +1300

Economists can be daft, especially libertarian ones. As if there's a free market equivalent for police background checks, vehicle standards, etc.

goforit

Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:40:09 +1300

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1611/S00483/mps-should-lighten-up-on-uber-as-they-may-soon-need-new-jobs.htm

Look at what this clown has to say, go to show how been taken in by the Uber bull s**t.

Brent Jackson

Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:11:48 +1300

Here's Eric Crampton's opinion of the select committee.

Sacha

Fri, 25 Nov 2016 07:25:39 +1300

Yep, sure can't rely on our lazy, ignorant MPs to do anything about holding Uber accountable.

goforit

Thu, 24 Nov 2016 18:13:40 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/86824498/mps-miss-the-point-over-how-ridesharing-service-uber-works
Looks like your leader is having some trouble with his bulls**t.

goforit

Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:33:06 +1300

Yes, even I think the app is good, its application to the industry that is all stuffed up.

BenWilson

Thu, 24 Nov 2016 00:51:27 +1300

Uber's losses show the unsustainability of the model. They took a good idea, the app they built for streamlining booking, delivery and payment, and fucked it up with a business model based on exploitation. It didn't have to be this way, and it won't continue to be forever. I suggested…

goforit

Wed, 23 Nov 2016 15:03:14 +1300

bit of a joke this Uberisation of the taxi industry, Uber lowers it prices to below a reasonable profit level to push out the existing taxi industry then the drivers of uber complain about it all, basicly there is so much cake to be shared around, if one overloads the…

BenWilson

Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:53:56 +1300

That's how it looks. I'm fighting this for a reason. It's an important cause, no matter how little people give a crap about the drivers. Under a decent compliance framework with a genuine enforceable contract they're a positive force in the industry. The way it is at the moment it's…

goforit

Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:56:56 +1300

Makes one ponder on it all. Every regulation from transport, taxation, health and safety, imergration, work and income just to name a frew has come under attack from Uber. The future of the welfare and income of the persons involved in passenger transport has taken a 100 year step backwards.

Alfie

Wed, 23 Nov 2016 09:40:00 +1300

That’s not actually my job to enforce, it’s the Government’s, and the various arms it has for exactly this purpose.

Here's a perfect example of one of those government departments taking proactive action against illegal drivers. NZTA's seeming reluctance to enforce NZ law against infringing Uber drivers suggests that they may…

BenWilson

Tue, 22 Nov 2016 09:19:30 +1300

If it was chess I'd say it's the mid-game.

Was just on Breakfast too. It was a bit of a blindside to just be focusing on safety issues, given the pre-interview. But that's mass media format, unfortunately. Focus on a single issue.

I certainly didn't form the Association entirely for…

goforit

Mon, 21 Nov 2016 19:40:38 +1300

Seen you on tele Ben, god when is this crap all coming to an end.

BenWilson

Mon, 21 Nov 2016 17:39:16 +1300

I'm probably going to be on Seven Sharp tonight.

goforit

Wed, 16 Nov 2016 18:13:16 +1300

looks like 30% commission to Uber is on its way

BenWilson

Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:41:42 +1300

It's the Disputes Tribunal but the same comment applies. You can't contact out of the jurisdiction. The Act states that very clearly.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:33:32 +1300

I don't think the locus of their offices has any bearing on the jurisdiction of the Employment Tribunal. If the work's being done by an NZ resident in NZ, then NZ law applies.

IANAL, but you knew that.

BenWilson

Mon, 14 Nov 2016 19:43:48 +1300

Thanks for the vote of confidence. But no, I don't think tarpitting the Tribunal can be dragged out for years, nor will there be any further expense. Furthermore, we have a number of these coming and the referees may see matters differently in other districts.

goforit

Mon, 14 Nov 2016 18:38:47 +1300

You must have known this would have been their response to your action. Will take years and a lot of money for this case to have a conclusion. This is why the new proposed transport act changes are aiming to overcome by having operations like Ubers to have an NZ…

BenWilson

Mon, 14 Nov 2016 13:57:54 +1300

The idea of trying to evade NZ law on jurisdictional grounds, when their business is run here in every meaningful part of the word "run", is farcical. I'm pretty confident that any judge can see this. Any person can see it – the conniptions are astonishing that are required for…

BenWilson

Mon, 14 Nov 2016 13:46:36 +1300

Arden's case has been pushed back as their defense appears to be entirely jurisdictional. It's not clear why, with the several months they've had to prepare that this adjournment is necessary. Hopefully it indicates that the referee wants more time to get their head around the issues. Because more time…

BenWilson

Sun, 13 Nov 2016 19:17:02 +1300

Yeah bro a lot has changed in the last few months. Worth a look again.

I've spoken to the people who run it personally. A couple of very switched on guys with a sound business plan and some big backers. They fully want to work with the Drivers Association (although…

goforit

Sun, 13 Nov 2016 15:55:29 +1300

Thats good Zoomy appears to be gaining ground, when my taxi was with them I was lucky to get one job per fortnight. That arcticle was really well writen and to the point.

BenWilson

Sun, 13 Nov 2016 10:16:23 +1300

There still seems to be a surge map. But it's never been that easy to see how hard the customer is being surged. Part and parcel of not being responsible for the billing.

Last night I had a first. Big long surge at end of Shapeshifter concert. Got 4 back…

goforit

Sat, 12 Nov 2016 10:17:28 +1300

I see Uber's updated app makes its hard to follow whats going on including when surge pricing is in effect. Looks like the drivers will be missing out on surge price values putting more money into the pockets of Uber.

goforit

Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:16:41 +1300

That is where I refound it, origionly it was a pop up thingy when I was looking at some thing else.

BenWilson

Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:09:55 +1300

Furthermore, it is only a matter of time before this happens in NZ. Then both Uber and our government will be in all sorts of shit. They have sat on their hands far, far too long.

BenWilson

Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:08:49 +1300

I have a feeling that this will lead to huge lawsuits in the US. There is no way Uber can distance themselves from this, when they have not followed any due process to ensure the drivers comply to the state screening processes.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 11 Nov 2016 11:50:34 +1300

https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-driver-rape-unconscious-teen/

BenWilson

Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:25:01 +1300

Ah, so you mean they're showing up as closed in Google Maps?

goforit

Fri, 11 Nov 2016 09:51:50 +1300

https://www.google.co.nz/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=m2g8Vt3OKK_u8weSnIGYAw&gws_rd=ssl#q=uber+parnell

Don't know if I have captured it, but try this, its part of the ad in the RH top corner

BenWilson

Fri, 11 Nov 2016 09:03:25 +1300

Really? I wonder where they are now? Can you send me a screenshot?

I notice that referral bonuses for new drivers have now hit $750. If they go any higher, they might as well just be paying for the compliance in the first place.

Suggests that it’s becoming difficult…

goforit

Thu, 10 Nov 2016 18:23:48 +1300

Hi Ben, what have you done to Uber, have they gone into hiding. I had a pop up thingy on my PC stating the Parnel Uber office was permanently closed.

goforit

Sat, 05 Nov 2016 10:33:12 +1300

COF if over 6 tonnes in weight.opps made a mistake COF applies to motorhomes over 3.5 tonnes. The minium driving licence required is private up to 6 tonnes.

goforit

Fri, 04 Nov 2016 19:01:45 +1300

Basicly all vehicles that are for hire and reward must be operated under a TSL, but the TSL has been broken down to reflect where in the hire and reward industry they belong to. Small passenger service vehicles operate under a PSL but older small passenger services may be still…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 04 Nov 2016 14:57:13 +1300

Rental cars are required to have COFs (and rental companies have their own kind of TSL with fairly limited requirements I think, though I wondered if Wicked's could be yanked on grounds of unfit impropriety).

A personal housetruck or other non-commercial heavy vehicle (like this) needs a COF as well,…

BenWilson

Fri, 04 Nov 2016 14:35:21 +1300

Hang on, you're asking if you can get a COF for some other kind of purpose without a TSL? I think so. I don't know exactly and it's not really relevant to the discussion, which is about driving for Uber or Taxis. I think rental cars tend to have COFs…

BenWilson

Fri, 04 Nov 2016 14:29:06 +1300

Not sure what you're asking if I'm sure about, Rich. A passenger service vehicle is required to operate under a PSL. So they require you to produce one. What I'm saying is that AFAIK there is no checking done on whether the TSL you show them belongs to someone who…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 04 Nov 2016 13:10:57 +1300

Are you sure Ben, coz it sez here: "If your vehicle is required (my bold) to operate under a transport service licence (eg goods vehicles 6000kg or over, vehicle recovery vehicles or large passenger vehicles) then you must provide your transport service licence number to the inspector before the CoF…

BenWilson

Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:32:55 +1300

A PSL (Passenger Service License) is a kind of TSL (Transport Service License). Yes, you need it to be compliant. You need your own one, for Ubering, unless you are an employee of the person holding it, who must also own your car, and be paying you a wage. So,…

Singh Singh

Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:45:13 +1300

Question, to start with Uber or Taxi the driver should have TSL , P endorsement plastic ID card, COF for the car. What is PSL ? Is it been referred again to TSL? If I missed any to be compliant, please advise. Cheers

BenWilson

Mon, 31 Oct 2016 14:09:06 +1300

It's a good analysis, as usual.

Sacha

Mon, 31 Oct 2016 13:33:18 +1300

Gordon Campbell on the UK ruling.

goforit

Mon, 31 Oct 2016 12:27:44 +1300

But Uber going to get on top of every thing now with their talk of driverless flying cars, its a bit like flying pink elepants Lol. they haven't got driverless on the road cars right yet.

BenWilson

Mon, 31 Oct 2016 10:58:07 +1300

IANAL, but I don't think that the details of the driver compliance make much difference in this case. It's about the actual nature of the work, much more than it is about the legal fictions that have been invented around it. That ruling Ben Austin referred to is absolute dynamite.…

goforit

Sun, 30 Oct 2016 17:03:35 +1300

Hi Ben, I have thought about this situation for several days and if the current NZ laws are aplied this would be the situation. I have broken it down to three situations;

(a) fully compliant driver with TSL/PSL
(b) dodgy driver using a TSL/PSL that belongs to someone else.
(c)…

BenWilson

Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:36:37 +1300

Busy day:
TV3
One News
Granny
Radio NZ
…and I can’t find the Newstalk ZB interview.

I can’t say I have a deeply informed opinion about this case that was just ruled on a day ago on the other side of the world, nor can I claim to be speaking on…

BenWilson

Sat, 29 Oct 2016 12:41:02 +1300

I'm getting too many interviews to keep up with on this today. Watch TV3 and One tonight, listen to NewsTalk ZB or RNZ or read NewsHub. That's so far....

BenWilson

Sat, 29 Oct 2016 10:52:33 +1300

@ rich I expect it will be very relevant. Much to digest there.

Ben Austin

Sat, 29 Oct 2016 03:58:01 +1300

Uber has lost a first level Employment Tribunal claim in England today on the question of employment status (or more precisely, worker status*). Page 26 onwards has the conclusions.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aslam-and-farrar-v-uber-reasons-20161028.pdf

*Similar to employment, but a new statutory concept. Entitled to national minimum wage, holiday pay and subject to working time…

Rich Lock

Sat, 29 Oct 2016 03:44:41 +1300

Not sure how relevant this UK decision will be for NZ, but may be of interest: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/28/uber-uk-tribunal-self-employed-status?CMP=fb_gu

goforit

Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:05:29 +1300

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/uber/search/results.cfm?kw1=uber

The tax man is acometh.

goforit

Mon, 24 Oct 2016 17:38:11 +1300

http://nypost.com/2016/10/23/uber-warns-of-fake-driver-scam-spike-at-city-airports/

I did a giggle to myself when I read this, Uber is now complaining about others working their patch, was not to long ago Uber was the one working someone else's patch at this location. This is what happens when regulations are thrown out the window a free for…

Sacha

Sun, 23 Oct 2016 22:38:47 +1300

This tells me even though a blind eye has been turned [if] a complaint is received by NZTA from the public over these issues the law would be enforced.

Not if their Minister is instructing otherwise.

Sacha

Sun, 23 Oct 2016 22:37:36 +1300

Short article about some of the legal/moral issues holding up self-driving cars.

goforit

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 20:43:32 +1300

Ben as you know I do agree with just about every thing you say and when and if the act is ammended most of the issues will disapear. All I am saying in the meantime the current act is the law and it has been tested and drivers over the…

BenWilson

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 19:49:12 +1300

Yes, you are right, and no one but taxi drivers care. Not passengers, not the NZTA, not the CVIU, not the Minister of Transport, not the general public. It's been tested in court and it died the death that farcical old laws that are going out under a law review…

goforit

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 17:03:20 +1300

We are not talking about a taxi fare that is metered but a private hire fare that must be agreed upon in advance, usually most private hire operators say for instance $25 per hour or part of an hour and that usually covers variations.
You may say its a farcical…

BenWilson

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:51:40 +1300

When this happens and of course it does occassionly, a new price has to be negotiated at the time of changed circumstances.

Sounds like it could be made effectively identical to a taxi in pricing structure. So the question that probably occurred to the regulators was "if it's functionally equivalent…

goforit

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:24:45 +1300

(what happens if you book a conventional private hire and decide you want to divert?)

When this happens and of course it does occassionly, a new price has to be negotiated at the time of changed circumstances.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:14:44 +1300

If you've got a database like Uber's (or even from publically accessible resources like Google Maps) then it's fairly straightforward to estimate within reasonable margins the journey time/distance and give the passenger a firm quote – which wouldn't often lose the driver money. If they want to reroute, they get…

BenWilson

Tue, 18 Oct 2016 15:54:21 +1300

Under the current act there is 5 forms of small passenger service and the one that descibes the Zoomy operation is a taxi service therefore the regulations around taxi service must be complied to

To me it looks more like the drivers are operating private hire services, but they're not…

goforit

Tue, 18 Oct 2016 10:52:08 +1300

And let’s be even more specific. Zoomy itself is not offering the private hire service. That is done by each driver. Their sole violation of the law is that they don’t fix a price for the trip beforehand, or charge an hourly rate fixed beforehand.

Dont forget on demand which…

goforit

Tue, 18 Oct 2016 10:39:27 +1300

One cannot choose which regulation they wish to be compliant with and which regulation does not suit them, Uber has shown us ignore one or two regulations in the beginning and then ignore the rest of them. Innovation is a good thing and should be encouraged, the innovation that Uber…

BenWilson

Tue, 18 Oct 2016 09:56:42 +1300

Work the drivers longer for less profit, it has been proven that there are plenty of drivers that just flock to this model

It's not the low pay anyone is flocking to. It's the ease of access, the low barriers to entry, the casualized setting of your own hours, and…

BenWilson

Tue, 18 Oct 2016 09:25:35 +1300

I only said they were more compliant than Uber. Yes, it's impossible for an app based service that meters rides to be compliant with the current Operator Licensing Rule. As far as I'm aware this has moved into completely unenforced territory long ago. Whether that constitutes an unlicensed taxi service,…

goforit

Tue, 18 Oct 2016 08:19:00 +1300

Work the drivers longer for less profit, it has been proven that there are plenty of drivers that just flock to this model and of course the public just love supporting this model.

linger

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 20:08:43 +1300

Uber and Zoomy should merge:
new company title would simply be UseMe.
I leave it open whether that describes a plea to customers,
or the drivers’ relationship to the company.

goforit

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 16:50:55 +1300

Ben, Zoomy is not compliant with the current transport act, a private hire service such as Zoomy offers cannot carry on as an unlicensed taxi service, the every nature of an on demand and metered private hire serice is not permissable under the currant act, When the amended act is…

BenWilson

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:27:39 +1300

Basically, Juno is targeting Uber where it’s weakest – driver welfare – and luring over high-rated drivers.

In Auckland, Zoomy is doing much the same thing. They currently have a minimum payout for drivers of $15, no matter what the fare was. They also insist on almost all the compliance,…

goforit

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:10:05 +1300

Drivers don't work for tips but when one is given it is appreciated.

Russell Brown

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 11:48:23 +1300

You had a driver driving you while he was waiting for his P Endorsement, I hope he was not driving for reward of any sort.

No, no. He had his P endorsement and was an excellent driver – he was talking about how long it took for his endorsement to…

goforit

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 11:18:49 +1300

In early May I had a meeting with the NZTA, they admitted Uber was not compliant with the act but it was until the amendments to the act was made law to expensive to put Uber through the legal system of enforcement.

Sacha

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 06:59:06 +1300

OIA response shows NZTA got legal advice in May about including Uber as second party when prosecuting non-compliant drivers. I guess either the advice was that they couldn't or they have been instructed not to.

BenWilson

Mon, 17 Oct 2016 03:27:31 +1300

It could be soon, or a hundred years from now. No one has a road map. Uber and Google have a strong track record in making websites and phone apps. That translates to cracking a huge breakthrough in robotics in the same way that a strong track record in making…

Singh Singh

Sun, 16 Oct 2016 19:21:52 +1300

The dates may vary Ben, but heavy investments are made by Uber & google on this . So it's happening but will take its own course of time ... cheers

Singh Singh

Sun, 16 Oct 2016 19:17:30 +1300

Spot on, I am yet to drive. Cheers

goforit

Sun, 16 Oct 2016 14:31:23 +1300

That’s the flipside of the gig economy – workers are very mobile.

I notice that in India where a driver works for both Uber and Ola the driver's commission goes up to 35% for both companies. The companies must be sharing driver information so to screw the driver for working…

goforit

Sun, 16 Oct 2016 14:29:02 +1300

I had a driver last week who told me about waiting for his P endorsement

You had a driver driving you while he was waiting for his P Endorsement, I hope he was not driving for reward of any sort.

Russell Brown

Sun, 16 Oct 2016 09:16:33 +1300

Did you see the New Yorker's story on Uber competitor Juno?

It's very interesting. Basically, Juno is targeting Uber where it's weakest – driver welfare – and luring over high-rated drivers. They're copying the business model and taking the best workers. That's the flipside of the gig economy – workers…

Russell Brown

Sun, 16 Oct 2016 09:11:58 +1300

Uber’s advice to these people, according to these people who have spoken directly to me: Keep driving, we’ll sort it out.

I had a driver last week who told me about waiting for his P endorsement to come through and being urged to just start working by Uber staff.

"They…

goforit

Sat, 15 Oct 2016 17:50:42 +1300

I guess its a matter of time now when the IRD step up there enforcement over the new GST regulations, I wonder if Uber will pay the fines of the drivers over this.

goforit

Sat, 15 Oct 2016 17:46:57 +1300

The actual case of noncompliance by the drivers does not go away even if Uber pays the fine, when these drivers in the future try to become compliant they can be blocked by the process as they have history of being noncompliant.

BenWilson

Sat, 15 Oct 2016 16:58:57 +1300

I have heard of a few people in the last week who have had the book fully thrown at them. Whatever non-compliance they are guilty of, they're up for it. Several fines of $2000 for people having no COF, P Endorsement, PSL, and logbook.

Uber's advice to these people, according…