Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: Cannabis: make it legal but don’t let anyone make money from it

Alfie

Tue, 15 Jan 2019 18:06:26 +1300

Medicann, founded in March last year, has been placed into liquidation after investing $3m in the business.

Company chair and Tauranga GP Dr Franz Strydom describes competing factions within the business making his job difficult. There's also just a little whiff of possible fraud in the story.

Strydom said he had…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 07 Jan 2019 08:58:23 +1300

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/109760925/is-the-hype-about-cbd-or-cannabidiol-real

Russell Brown

Fri, 21 Dec 2018 16:20:08 +1300

That said, I agree with Nic that keeping big business out of it is preferable. Restricting sales to individuals and co-operatives seems to me a good option. However, there’s the problem of potency specification and the reliability thereof. As long as we have a large portion of the population with…

Dennis Frank

Fri, 21 Dec 2018 08:31:59 +1300

You can't seriously expect legislation to prevail over human nature. People have been trading stuff for millennia, and money is just media for easing that process. Laws that don't work are never a good idea.

That said, I agree with Nic that keeping big business out of it is preferable.…

Craig Young

Tue, 18 Dec 2018 13:37:00 +1300

Good strategic move here, especially as Can't-abis campaigners Family First are already humming and hahing about the dangers of "Big Pot" given Bob McCoskrie's recent Colorado visit. So why aren't they campaigning as vigorously against breweries and tobacco companies?

SimonD

Mon, 17 Dec 2018 20:41:16 +1300

“despite there being no precedent within the capitalist system” Welcome to the bold new world of doing something that no one else has done.

SimonD

Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:14:55 +1300

No much to be frank. It’s a pretty harmless plant compared to gorse, old mans beard or privet to name just a few that are growing unchecked in rental properties across the country. It’s not poisoness like Castor oil plant and unless smoked or baked is pretty innocuous. If my…

Moz

Sun, 16 Dec 2018 20:30:05 +1300

the will and the means to grow their own which

I can just imagine the councils being thrilled when a whole bunch of people want to use their community garden spaces to grow pot. What could possibly go wrong?

Even in NZ, not everyone has the space to grow pot.…

mark taslov

Sun, 16 Dec 2018 15:40:15 +1300

I feel that’s rather resorting to semantics to sidestep my point, as the article states:

The government allows only two private companies to produce commercial cannabis

i.e. a ’model for commercial retail without big business’

as a response to "commercial selling"

as in ’cannabis is supplied through chemist shops’

i.e.…

SimonD

Sun, 16 Dec 2018 14:03:40 +1300

No Uruguay is not a commercial model. The cannabis is supplied through chemist shops to registered purchasers and grown by order of a government agency. Nothing like a commercial model. And no the current directive to treat drug possession as a health issue rather than a criminal one is by…

mark taslov

Sat, 15 Dec 2018 18:33:00 +1300

I truly fail to see how commercial selling wont result in big tobacco moving in.

Isn’t the model for commercial retail without big business Uruguay?

if you can grow it for nothing the why would you buy it.

As a number of people implied over the page, if you can’t…

SimonD

Sat, 15 Dec 2018 18:06:09 +1300

No because if you can grow it for nothing the why would you buy it. To keep the price high there would need to be some sort of Cannabis OPEC in order that the market isnt flooded with excess bud. This is becoming a bit of a circular argument. However…

mark taslov

Sat, 15 Dec 2018 11:49:44 +1300

none of that really strikes me as a strong argument for continuing to foster a black market – It’s not something I’ve looked into but are there any other localities where legalising cannabis has caused the price to drop to unprofitable levels?

Moreover the big profits thought of when one…

SimonD

Sat, 15 Dec 2018 00:41:08 +1300

Yes I get that its a new market and an opportunity for the North particularly but I dont think it is likely to solve any financial woes. My guess is that once legal the price will likely drop to a unprofitable level and it simply wont be worth the weight.…

mark taslov

Fri, 14 Dec 2018 10:15:27 +1300

Surely looking at alcohol and tobacco would tell you that letting in big business is a recipe for disaster.

I’m with you on that – I just don’t understand why that necessitates extending the absolutist prohibition on selling for profit – especially with our tourist numbers – but I’m poor…

SimonD

Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:28:49 +1300

Yes there will always be a black market it is the nature of humanity. The point is what is the way to achieve the most equatable solution that causes the least harm. Surely looking at alcohol and tobacco would tell you that letting in big business is a recipe for…

Worik

Thu, 13 Dec 2018 20:43:38 +1300

Mostly a good proposal.

But selling does need to be a crime? Even if it is just against regulation, like moderate speeding big business would stay out

mark taslov

Thu, 13 Dec 2018 18:03:48 +1300

Uruguay still has a black market to cater largely for tourists who are prohibited from purchasing cannabis, the productive capacity is failing to meet demand with people lined up outside pharmacies, they’re lagging behind pro-prohibition countries on medicinal cannabis, fights between criminal gangs, mostly associated with drugs, made up 59%…

SimonD

Thu, 13 Dec 2018 15:44:41 +1300

Well thats not really correct as the Uruguayan model I mentioned is most of the way there and seems to function quite well. The other point is that this model is extremely easy to implememt. No major institutions need to be put into place nor regulating bodies. The police can…

mark taslov

Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:01:04 +1300

Even the most socially anxious can manage a pot plant surely?

I recall a few years back I supported this type of approach, just to give some idea of what I understand this would entail. An annual supply for a mid to heavy smoker would equate to the harvest of…

Rob S

Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:16:59 +1300

allowing “big pot” to dominate a potential market is however only one potential outcome from legalization, the one thing I’ve not seen anyone support.
Will we see an astroturf campaign of some sort come out of the tobacco/alcohol business groups?
Who has the ear of the relevant decision makers?
When…

bob daktari

Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:20:44 +1300

This is still preferable to opening the door to big businesses.

totally agree – allowing "big pot" to dominate a potential market is however only one potential outcome from legalisation, the one thing I've not seen anyone support, thankfully :)

Sacha

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:58:46 +1300

Beautifully clear, thanks Nic. Great to see your name again so many years after WellMen.

Nic Beets

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:39:31 +1300

legal or illegal – someones going to be making money I believe this is not a given. There will be a time of transition and the black market may linger for a while. This is still preferable to opening the door to big businesses. In the long run I think…

bob daktari

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:32:06 +1300

I'd rather the state wasn't directly involved in any way other than clipping the ticket (tax) and supplying and enforcing regulation – which may include licensing the growers and sellers

I don't have the answer nor perfect solution but I do know I totally disagree with Beet's premise

The solution…

SimonD

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:18:09 +1300

Interestingly that is much like the Uruguayan model. You can grow 6 plants for personal use or you can form a cooperative and grow up to 90. However if you register as a user then you can buy a certain number of grams a month grown by (or on behalf…

mark taslov

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:02:40 +1300

I grow tobacco – for exactly that reason. It’s daylight robbery stimulating night time robbery.

bob daktari

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:01:24 +1300

No body bothers growing tobacco

But they do and its a growing (sorry) pursuit from what I gather due to the continual price increases

I'm not suggesting for a second we allow the likes of tobacco companies be allowed to be involved in any legal cannabis market, thats the last…

mark taslov

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:59:23 +1300

Even the most socially anxious can manage a pot plant surely?

As Russell said:

people who can’t or don’t want to grow their own. Which is a lot of people.

As Joe said:

some of us are blessed with “black thumbs”, the magical ability to kill any kind of plant…

SimonD

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:57:49 +1300

Even the most socially anxious can manage a pot plant surely?

mark taslov

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:55:04 +1300

there will be a ton

I’m not sure if you checked the link but there already are a ton of seeds coming in.

19,000 – 2018
43,000 – 2017

It covers most of the country, Adams said.

the issue is that importation is grounds for a search warrant.

My feeling…

BenWilson

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:45:19 +1300

It's more like the supermarket herbs produce than the fresh produce. If you smoke as much cannabis as the lettuce in a small salad you will get high as. It's more like the mint in the garden than the potatoes, and probably about as much trouble to grow and harvest.

SimonD

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:40:03 +1300

Seeds will become more available over time. We discussed this at the pub the other night. It is an issue and as Russell sort of said it is easy to see them being given away with other products such as potting mix and 20ltr tubs. Not sure that needs to…

SimonD

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:35:12 +1300

Yes but supermarkets operate in a market where it is legal to sell. This is why they sell tobacco. No body bothers growing tobacco and hence it is profitable to major international companies. My feeling is if you can’t be bothered to grow it or find someone to give it…

mark taslov

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:12:36 +1300

What say I want to grow some good shit but can’t source seeds/plants?

Happy to be corrected, that’s something I’ve not seen much discussion of specifically wrt decriminalisation of cultivation, whether for personal use or clubs, namely the loosening of restrictions on seed importation from reputable sources.

Rob S

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:04:10 +1300

Where do I get my starter kit from?
What say I want to grow some good shit but can't source seeds/plants?

bob daktari

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 13:00:27 +1300

It’s a pretty safe bet that there isn’t going to be much profit if you can grow it yourself for free.

supermarkets and fresh produce sellers might disagree with that

I have a garden but get my veges from the supermarket – why because I don't like nor care to…

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 12:55:22 +1300

but legalizing personal crops will radically reduce the profit and therefore any black market will be restricted to those with significant net worth who want the Rolls Royce of weed.

Or people who can't or don't want to grow their own. Which is a lot of people.

Growing bush weed…

Ross Bell

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 12:32:05 +1300

Some organisations tasked with harm minimisation seem fixated on getting more funding for their education campaigns rather than coming up with proposals to minimise harm.

Low blow, and not true.

The Drug Foundation's* model drug law is a pretty good starting point

*I assuming the author means us…

SimonD

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 11:35:31 +1300

Edit function discovered.

SimonD

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 11:31:40 +1300

I agree that the standard of weed is likely to drop but that devotees will use careful cultivation to keep standards high for their own crops. The general lowering of the strength of cannabis is not really a problem though. Less strength less potential harm. As for a black market,…

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 11:07:23 +1300

This is essentially the system that Washington DC accidentally ended up with – it's legal to possess, use, grow and "gift", but commerce is forbidden.

It works pretty well – in part because a permissive medicinal regime takes up the slack – but there are still some issues, including weed…

Nic Beets

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 11:02:52 +1300

Joe I am also a notorious plant murderer. That's where the sharing part comes in

Joe Boden

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 10:04:22 +1300

Makes a great deal of sense, but some of us are blessed with "black thumbs", the magical ability to kill any kind of plant we might try to grow.

Verity Thom

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 08:53:41 +1300

Totally support this remarkably common sense, sound argument.

Public Address

Wed, 12 Dec 2018 08:53:41 +1300

Discussion from blog post.