Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: Britain: the crisis isn't Brexit, it's Labour https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373803#post373803 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373803#post373803 It’s a bit like Trump in some ways – Corbyn’s style of campaigning actually works in some situations and GE2017 was one of those situations.

Some of the conclusions being made aren't necessarily based on much.

I found this on the US election quite interesting:

[[https://www.voterstudygroup.org/reports/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond|Political Divisions in 2016 and…

]]> Fri, 23 Jun 2017 22:07:08 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373801#post373801 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373801#post373801 My feeling was that this failure was at least as responsible, if not more, for the outcome as any genuine improvement in Labour's outreach and messaging.

I've said several times, on this site and elsewhere, that governments lose elections just as much, if not more so, than oppositions win them.…

]]> Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:31:41 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373800#post373800 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373800#post373800 U.K. Labour is bold.... U.K. Labour is visionary

Well, just like the curate's egg, certain parts are. UK Labour is not united at the moment. The Blairite Progress wing are very quiet at the moment, and managed to keep their gobs shut in the election run-up, but spent most of…

]]> Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:27:19 +1200 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373799#post373799 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373799#post373799 Think most of what the original post said is still acceptable – so far as criticisms of Corbyn are concerned anyway. However the victory of Labour and Corbyn especially in beating the extremely low expectations we all had is certainly not foreseen here.

It's a bit like Trump in some…

]]> Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:17:36 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373793#post373793 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373793#post373793 The other quite-reasonable assumption in the original post, unquestioned by anybody else at the time, is that May would run a competent campaign.

My feeling was that this failure was at least as responsible, if not more, for the outcome as any genuine improvement in Labour's outreach and messaging. Put…

]]> Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:51:47 +1200 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373766#post373766 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373766#post373766 The other quite-reasonable assumption in the original post, unquestioned by anybody else at the time, is that May would run a competent campaign. One should expect nothing less from a PM self-branding as “strong and stable government”. Instead, the wheels fell off and rolled in all directions.

National is hardly…

]]> Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:13:41 +1200 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373764#post373764 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373764#post373764
Yeah, I think the OP could win some kind of award for outstanding un-prescience.

To be fair, none of the liberal bourgeoisie echo chamber picked up any hint of the outcome.

To me, the outstanding thing about the Labour campaign was firstly how accurately they summed up their chances within…

]]> Fri, 23 Jun 2017 06:30:09 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373748#post373748 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373748#post373748 Yeah, I think the OP could win some kind of award for outstanding un-prescience.

And I'm loving the irony that following one of the charges on Corbyn's indictment being support for a terrorist-linked political party, May now depends for her majority on, guess what, a terrorist-linked political party.

]]> Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:23:05 +1200 Matthew Andrews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373740#post373740 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=373740#post373740 Wed, 21 Jun 2017 23:23:18 +1200 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372604#post372604 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372604#post372604 Tue, 02 May 2017 20:46:17 +1200 Zach Bagnall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372591#post372591 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372591#post372591 Tue, 02 May 2017 12:20:03 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372586#post372586 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372586#post372586 Ken Loach's 2013 Documentary The Spirit of '45
Details
Tuesday, May 9 at 7 PM – 10 PM
Joint event co-hosted by the Canterbury Socialist Society and the NZ Fabian Society screening Ken Loach's 2013 Documentary "The Spirit of '45'".

Through a collection of interviews and archival footage, Ken…

]]> Tue, 02 May 2017 09:14:46 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372568#post372568 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372568#post372568 Mon, 01 May 2017 21:05:38 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372565#post372565 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372565#post372565 Lol and the Guardian headline and slant:
Labour donor pledges to stand against Corbyn in general election

If he doesn't stand down, I'll run against him! Foster says.

]]> Mon, 01 May 2017 19:09:17 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372558#post372558 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372558#post372558 the Syrian civil war as being the first war triggered by climate change

I'd consider the causes stem from the west and Russia historically supporting dictatorial government in development countries in order to keep them under "control".

Then the US got fed up with one of these clients (Saddam) and…

]]> Mon, 01 May 2017 14:17:41 +1200 Northshoreguynz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372556#post372556 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372556#post372556 Mon, 01 May 2017 13:22:38 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372538#post372538 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372538#post372538 Effectively, the UK is now over-populated, unable to provide enough work for everyone, ethnically and politically polarised and as broke as it was in the crisis ridden early 1970s.

I'd say all of that is true, on the proviso that you accept neoliberalism and its model of how they run…

]]> Mon, 01 May 2017 09:58:34 +1200 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372536#post372536 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372536#post372536 Mon, 01 May 2017 08:53:59 +1200 81stcolumn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372532#post372532 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372532#post372532 Ok this is a bit of a snark but surely is evidence that Labour's problems don't revolve exclusively around Corbyn.

I present Michael Foster:

The charming candidate

The bellicose ex-member

The entitled resurrected activist

]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2017 22:51:55 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372530#post372530 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372530#post372530 I think the lesson here is that if you're going to give the members a say you need to be very careful that the members are aligned with the organisation

The members...not...being part of the organisation? Is that what you're trying to say?

I trust that Labour have something similar.…

]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:41:39 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372523#post372523 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372523#post372523 Yeh, it wasn't the people that infiltrated it was the ideas. And Muldoon did gosh darn broke it. So I've been told. I think that's a red herring, because they won an election and then did the opposite of what they said. That's not the fault of the electoral system!… ]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2017 19:42:33 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372513#post372513 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372513#post372513 To get elected you’ve got to win your wing and take them with you toward the centre.

There are many strategies that might work. That one has been popular, but it might have also had its day as the "wing" concerned is divided into many different directions. Perhaps the wing…

]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2017 16:06:15 +1200 Zach Bagnall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372510#post372510 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372510#post372510 Does the UK have any realistic appetite for reviewing its electoral system? Or is it highly content with what it has?

The last referendum on the topic had a negative campaign (backed by both sides of the political divide) which make the Brexit campaign look restrained and factual in comparison.…

]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2017 13:23:33 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372509#post372509 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372509#post372509 Sun, 30 Apr 2017 12:19:52 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372508#post372508 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372508#post372508 Sun, 30 Apr 2017 12:13:50 +1200 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372506#post372506 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372506#post372506 There was no rule saying centrists couldn't sign up members

I suspect that the existing MPs are mostly committed to the same system as we have in Australia. They want a small group of local party members who all have close social ties to the MP, and rules to make…

]]> Sun, 30 Apr 2017 10:51:49 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372504#post372504 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372504#post372504 Does the UK have any realistic appetite for reviewing its electoral system? Or is it highly content with what it has?

There have been electoral reform efforts in the UK for over 100 years. Seems there's been little progress made in that time.

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 20:29:07 +1200 Alex Coleman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372503#post372503 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372503#post372503 The thing that continually strikes me about pieces like this is the lack of any self reflection whatsoever by the centrists, or whatever you want to call them.

Complaining that Corbyn brought in outsiders so no fair, or doesn't count, or what have you are so far off point as…

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:59:39 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372502#post372502 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372502#post372502 It causes me to think plenty about how the likes of Douglas and Prebble infiltrated NZ Labour in the 80s, despite having polar opposite ideologies from typical Labour policies. They weren't exactly going to get anywhere under Muldoon, and joining Labour was the only realistic option for getting into parliament… ]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 19:19:33 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372501#post372501 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372501#post372501 But it seems also intransigent and unable to provide such an ‘elegant solution’ as creating a left party outside Labour that could express its own personality, yet work so closely with it when required.

It causes me to think plenty about how the likes of Douglas and Prebble infiltrated NZ…

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:57:51 +1200 Nick Russell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372499#post372499 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372499#post372499 Labour now has the largest membership of any party in Western Europe. This does mean something – it is highly unlikely in the UK that you would get 500,000 people that have views that are strongly enough held to pay to join an organisation, but at the same time be… ]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:39:06 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372493#post372493 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372493#post372493 Wow, actually finally read the your Irish post all the way to the bottom.

Perhaps the ultimate take on this is that English exceptionalism and arrogance is about to over-balance and take the whole thing down to the depths of irrelevance, in a world where China, Russia, Brazil and India…

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 12:28:43 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372492#post372492 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372492#post372492 Dude posted 3 times now- please, please don’t mention the war or abstaining on welfare capping or …

Also I saw George Monbiot headbut a guy in the face. He’s a violent psycho, like most of Corbyn’s supporters. And what is Corbyn doing to stop that? The Monbiots of this…

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 12:16:37 +1200 andrew r https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372487#post372487 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372487#post372487 Got on ya George – this seems a better focus. Especially right about

*now* !!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/25/vote-labour-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 10:17:47 +1200 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372486#post372486 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372486#post372486 ...it is highly unlikely in the UK that you would get 500,000 people that have views that are strongly enough held to pay to join an organisation, but at the same time be so completely out of step with public opinion that the party has no future.

Given the current…

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 08:38:51 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372483#post372483 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372483#post372483 What if both the Blairite and Corbynite wings of UK Labour are in the gun? It could mean the unwelcome prospect of the UK turning into a Singaporean-style one-party democracy.

Worth noting that [[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/03/lack-of-working-class-labour-mps-has-alienated-voters|in 1964, 37% of UK Labour MPs came from the working class but by 2015 that had…

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 02:51:46 +1200 Matthew Andrews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372481#post372481 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372481#post372481 And this, right here, is why the Labour Party is f*cked. I hope the last person to leave will turn out the lights, and leave Corbyn in charge of an empty room. Maybe then he and Momentum will finally be happy

Labour now has the largest membership of any party…

]]> Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:48:54 +1200 Matthew Andrews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372480#post372480 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372480#post372480 Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:39:12 +1200 kiwiwolf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372479#post372479 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372479#post372479 Sat, 29 Apr 2017 00:03:35 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372477#post372477 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372477#post372477 you don’t win elections by immediately kneecapping your leader

You might if you thought they were leading you to disaster. But I'm not defending the party dysfunction. It's totally divided. I think that's because what it represents is, too. Its fragmentation is an image of the society under it. It's…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 22:28:33 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372476#post372476 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372476#post372476 It was interesting to hear Mike Moore talk about Anderton as our Benn. It was also handy that he was able to operate as a party apart, and a yet play a crucial part. Wasn’t it Deputy PM? And a top ranking in cabinet?

Corbyn is unable to do that…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 21:49:01 +1200 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372474#post372474 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372474#post372474 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 19:41:40 +1200 Sam Bradford https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372473#post372473 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372473#post372473 Yes, but if it's about electability--
--you don't win elections by immediately kneecapping your leader
--especially when there is no obvious replacement (if the other contenders hadn't been remarkably uninspired Corbyn never would have won)
--the centrist Labour party was already very unpopular and directionless
--and they haven't actually campaigned…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 19:30:03 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372469#post372469 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372469#post372469 At that point they’re not even pretending to represent the party anymore. The party IS the members.

It is, but winning members is a sideshow to winning voters in the whole point of the democratic process, selecting the leadership of the country. You could equally say that the members aren't…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:54:32 +1200 Nick Russell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372468#post372468 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372468#post372468 Simple Nick when he voted against he was voting against the neoliberals who had taken it over with their Tory Light policies. Corbyn is a man of strong principles which govern his thinking. Blair was never ever a Socialist, just a wishy washy opportunist

And this, right here, is why…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:34:53 +1200 Sam Bradford https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372467#post372467 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372467#post372467 When Corbyn won the leadership (before he'd even announced policy preferences, preferred shadow cabinet etc), a large number of Labour MPs immediately said they would refuse to work with him in leadership positions, assuming they could get him rolled quickly by refusing to cooperate.

He was voted in by the…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:24:31 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372466#post372466 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372466#post372466 The evidence so far suggests that not only do they have no real ideas, their opponents in the party don't either. My feeling is that the entire reason Corbyn was elected was that no-one had a better idea. Which tells you an awful lot about the calibre of his opponents… ]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:22:03 +1200 kiwiwolf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372465#post372465 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372465#post372465 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 17:19:53 +1200 Moz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372464#post372464 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372464#post372464

Brexit may mean tough times ahead for May’s government, but for now the crisis of truly historic proportions belongs purely to the left.

Yes, it's very much a "dog catches car" moment – the left have got the Labour leadership, now what are they going to do with it? The…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:40:09 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372463#post372463 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372463#post372463 The whole Sinn Fein thing is interesting (and the use of the term Sinn Fein/IRA is telling – it's a Tory/Unionist meme to conflate the two).

Northern Ireland came into being through the threat of anti-constitutional violence. The Asquith government was elected on a promise to grant home rule to…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:32:31 +1200 martinb https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372462#post372462 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372462#post372462 If he's so terrible, just roll him.

Still- remember "He and hardcore supporters carry most of the blame for Labour’s current predicament."

That's right, I'm sure. Two terrible election losses. The Scottish independence referendum and the terrible joint campaign with the Tories which has wiped out the Scottish seats.

The…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:07:24 +1200 Nick Russell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372461#post372461 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372461#post372461 However, a portion of the blame still has to rest with the parliamentary wing of the party that have not supported him.

I find this endlessly amusing. Some day someone is going to explain to me why a man who voted against his own party over 500 times now deserves…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:58:15 +1200 Matthew Vink https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372460#post372460 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372460#post372460 http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/04/exclusive-conservative-poll-showed-party-would-lose-seats-liberal-democrats

"Last month, Conservative MPs from Cornwall and Devon urged May not to go to the country for fear they would lose their seats... According to multiple sources, a survey conducted by Crosby Textor showed the party would lose most of the 27 gains they made from the Lib Dems…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:56:34 +1200 Zach Bagnall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372459#post372459 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372459#post372459 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:55:40 +1200 kiwiwolf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372451#post372451 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372451#post372451 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:24:09 +1200 kiwiwolf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372450#post372450 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372450#post372450 Labour needs to make up its mind what it stands for and the others need to leave. If that means that neither wing is relevant then at least it is realistic.
Barry the majority of the "Party" knows what it stands for, just the centre right politicians who have been…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:23:22 +1200 Zach Bagnall https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372449#post372449 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372449#post372449 Interested to see if the Lib Dems rebound this time around.

If there's a chance my old electorate is in play, I'll be checking out https://tactical2017.com/ for ideas.

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:17:40 +1200 kiwiwolf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372448#post372448 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372448#post372448 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:14:38 +1200 81stcolumn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372447#post372447 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372447#post372447 To be fair, that's where quite a few of the new members came from in the first place.

I dunno: I know of some longtime UK Labour members who are utterly distraught at what's happened.

Agreed on both counts;

The SWP now inhabit a vacuum left behind by parliamentary Labour,…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:02:17 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372446#post372446 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372446#post372446 Nice piece of Tory Party propaganda Andrew, a long way from the truth that I hear from the UK. Just read one article that reports Tories lead dropped 8% in a week.

They'll have been cheered by that. But other polls are considerably less happy. And they all have Corbyn's…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:57:20 +1200 kiwiwolf https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372445#post372445 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372445#post372445 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:48:15 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372444#post372444 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372444#post372444 “Fuck off and join the SWP”

To be fair, that's where quite a few of the new members came from in the first place.

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:48:05 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372443#post372443 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372443#post372443 I guess the membership got sick of being used and voted for someone who espoused their values.

I dunno: I know of some longtime UK Labour members who are utterly distraught at what's happened.

There's also the fact of 26,000 members bailing since mid-last year, 7000 in the month after…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:42:39 +1200 81stcolumn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372442#post372442 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372442#post372442 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:40:52 +1200 Barry - https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372441#post372441 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372441#post372441 I make no comment on Corbyn's competence or his suitability to be the leader of the left. However, a portion of the blame still has to rest with the parliamentary wing of the party that have not supported him.

Labour has been a broad church for a long time, but…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:14:49 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372440#post372440 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372440#post372440 I think a broad TL;DR on that is that Corbyn isn't a centre right politician, and thus the right don't accept him as a safe pair of hands for a Labour-labelled interregnum between Tory governments.

The problem with Corbyn is that (I guess) he sees the EU as un-reformable and…

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:01:03 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372435#post372435 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372435#post372435 But when all commentary plays the man not the ball Labour has nowhere to go.

He's (a) the party leader and, (b) constantly championed on a personal level by his fans. I don't see how you can talk about it without talking about his personal performance.

]]> Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:16:11 +1200 81stcolumn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372433#post372433 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372433#post372433 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:00:57 +1200 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372432#post372432 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-britain-the-crisis-isnt-brexit-its/?p=372432#post372432 Discussion from blog post.

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