Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: A Disorderly Brexit

Tom Semmens

Sat, 16 Jul 2016 17:59:20 +1200

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13700085_941333612644789_2677308490432906429_n.jpg?oh=4cd4e92b61fb06e071d3bf9413e98b42&oe=57EBE540

John Farrell

Sat, 16 Jul 2016 13:54:46 +1200

Ah, but we're as far away from there as we could get.

Alfie

Sat, 16 Jul 2016 12:19:48 +1200

Even though his ancestor was briefly part of the Ottoman Turkish government I suspect the well-upholstered Boris is merely an almost six-foot stool…

Love your work Ian.

This Matt Kenyon graphic accompanying Jonathan Freedland's Guardian story — "With Boris Johnson in charge of diplomacy, Britain has insulted the world" --…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 16 Jul 2016 10:13:50 +1200

Especially as he has insulted the Turkish President in his 'award winning poetry' – http://www.rferl.org/content/turkish-silence-on-boris-johnson-insulting-erdogan/27857878.html

Even though his ancestor was briefly part of the Ottoman Turkish government I suspect the well-upholstered Boris is merely an almost six-foot stool...

David Hood

Sat, 16 Jul 2016 09:49:41 +1200

It is fortunate the new British Foriegn minister has Turkish ancestry, it would make him much more credible if he is sent to mediate the coup.

Moz

Fri, 15 Jul 2016 12:07:04 +1200

Britain has always led the world is satire

I thought for a second you were accusing May of satire with the appointment. The idea of Trump and Boris having a diplomatic meeting is definitely satirical.

Stross also has a take with Case Nightmare Blond

Alfie

Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:31:36 +1200

May's radical cabinet cleanout has certainly shocked a lot of people. Writing in the Guardian, Polly Toynbee describes it as a "brutal clear-out of the Cameron era". Her depiction of Osborne is sublime.

With a hiss of sulphur George Osborne exits stage right, never again his smirking budgets to pound…

Rich Lock

Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:40:34 +1200

The UK's new, unelected PM has appointed Boris the Clown as her new foreign secretary. Talk about distain for the electorate.

There's a theory floating about that she deliberately put him there so that when he inevitably stuffs it up completely she can shuffle him off into obscurity in disgrace.…

Alfie

Thu, 14 Jul 2016 13:07:05 +1200

The UK's new, unelected PM has appointed Boris the Clown as her new foreign secretary. Talk about distain for the electorate.

Alfie

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 17:50:28 +1200

…and it does remind of Private Eye’s regular ‘Solutions’ section

Nicely put, Ian. I had thought about asking for an English translation but wrote off the idea as possibly being too sarcastic.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:31:40 +1200

blogs are created by commentators – not solution providers!
I'm not convinced that the two are mutually exclusive...
...and it does remind of Private Eye's regular 'Solutions' section – highlighting and lampooning this favoured piece of corporate-speak.

Dennis Frank

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:20:41 +1200

Presuming nobody here has the answers to bad global trends, the behaviour of the control system & inadequacies of economics & democracy, is only natural because blogs are created by commentators – not solution providers!

It's still possible that the interweb may produce an arena designed to foster collaboration in evolving positive…

Alfie

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:15:51 +1200

Ben Jennings in the Guardian — Eagle serves to Corbyn

Alfie

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:14:51 +1200

I wouldn’t be surprised if, in the absence of another non-Blairite, he wins again.

I wonder what the Blairites will do then – a flounce would almost certainly be terminal, but they might do it anyway.

The Labour MPs involved with the coup have all stated that they couldn't work…

David Hood

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 13:21:10 +1200

So the NEC has voted to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

Reported though, after a couple of pro-Corbyn committee members had left at the end of the meeting, the committee then held a surprise vote on a off agenda item of setting a 6 month stand-down for…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 13:08:36 +1200

Who?

Here's a clue: the pundit is a she, and isn't a big fan of Jeremy Corbyn. Here's a selection of her words on Brexit, and Google can tell you the rest. To me it came across as Blairite blame-shifting.

__The trouble occurs when progressive parties become the property of…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 12:30:21 +1200

So the NEC has voted to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the absence of another non-Blairite, he wins again.

I wonder what the Blairites will do then – a flounce would almost certainly be terminal, but they might do it anyway.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 12:28:09 +1200

Who?

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 12:20:11 +1200

The New Labour faction is desperately trying to pull off their coup against Corbyn. At the moment their best hope is enforcing a ruling that he'll require the support of 51 sitting MPs to even appear on the ballot paper. This is a bizarre coup, not least because Corbyn’s main…

linger

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 10:30:32 +1200

There are certainly legitimate enough concerns about the direction of the EU, but the decision to leave doesn’t seem to address any of them.

Dennis Frank

Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:49:28 +1200

A British citizen & academic living here has been disconcerted by folks here being puzzled by his support for brexit, and explains it as our media bias portraying the separatist majority as being sick in the head.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11672585

He goes on to explain his concerns about the EU, citing lack of…

Alfie

Mon, 11 Jul 2016 13:26:29 +1200

...nobody commenting here has the answers...

I guess not. Time for Russell to close down PAS then?

Or maybe not, while there's still the possibilty that some of us derive value from the free and frank exchange of information and opinions in a relatively troll-free environment.

Marc C

Sun, 10 Jul 2016 22:38:16 +1200

Further to the above, I know people in Europe, having run family farms or businesses for two generations, now stuffed, facing bankruptcy, this partly due to "globalisation" and EU alignment of economic policies, they are at their end, some close to nervous breakdown. We have farmers in New Zealand faced…

Marc C

Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:57:23 +1200

Haha, did you not read my response above?

Well, maybe it is due to views like yours, and the implied claim of being infallible, that the Brits did in their majority vote exactly as they did in that EU referendum.

nzlemming

Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:06:54 +1200

So, what is your point, Marc C?

Oh, good. It's not just me, then.

Tom Semmens

Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:16:17 +1200

The PLP plotters seriously sem to think they can get a legitimate result by going to court to keep Corbyn off the ballot, by trying to stack the voting rolls in their favour, by constantly smearing their opponents as anti-semites, by playing the poor little rich kid victim whenever they…

Alfie

Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:38:13 +1200

David Hood

Sun, 10 Jul 2016 08:39:28 +1200

And with the U.K. Parliamentary Labour Party challenge now on, it boils down to if Corbyn will be allowed on the ballot, and if new members of the party are going to be allowed to vote.

Marc C

Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:39:50 +1200

Well, many go on about the "Brexit" vote in the UK and about Europe, but do not bother listening to and reading about the very arguments the ones in favour of an exit from the EU have delivered over the years.

One may agree or disagree, I thought it is…

John Farrell

Sat, 09 Jul 2016 07:20:58 +1200

So, what is your point, Marc C?

Marc C

Fri, 08 Jul 2016 23:43:34 +1200

This is astonishing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73eO0_zUMxw

How bizarre is he a peace maker, he seems almost like a leftist liberal.

Marc C

Fri, 08 Jul 2016 23:27:55 +1200

This shows how much contempt exists within Europe and how disunited even the European Parliament is, for those here, that have some fantasy idea about the harmony and ideals that supposedly exist, it is a broken dream, for sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz4AjgPwPvk

Marc C

Fri, 08 Jul 2016 23:20:13 +1200

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3dn8qs7ADo

defendue par Patrick Sebastien??

Where will this journey end?

Europe is DEAD, I think, the idea is, the rest is a sceleton of a fabric of "union".

Marc C

Fri, 08 Jul 2016 22:46:48 +1200

A weak pro European performance, Mr Farage on fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwLJMmdhSsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs

Is he demagogue or not just telling the blatant truth?

Rob Stowell

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 22:13:17 +1200

Yeah – I was thinking he might want to be sir nigel but a seat in the lords would be just the ticket for m. Farange.

nzlemming

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 21:36:12 +1200

And now Farage is running for cover

Ben Austin

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 21:28:03 +1200

Oh and farage has just resigned.

All weekend I was wondering what benefit there would be to the Conservatives giving him a seat in the Lords, assuming no South Thanet by election and could not think of one but now I'm wondering if there is a deal anyway.

Ben Austin

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 20:54:36 +1200

Whereas I'm sick of people calling Remain "whiners" and "poor losers". Just recall, if you will, that the newspapers and pundits are not the Remain camp. They are just people who may have voted that way and feel strongly about it. They do not necessarily speak for the Remain camp…

Sacha

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 19:24:42 +1200

enjoy Jonathan Pie's latest

fucking brilliant

Sacha

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 19:15:10 +1200

or 4 minutes if you'd rather enjoy a familiar meme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6HNXtdvVQ

nzlemming

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 18:08:31 +1200

https://youtu.be/0dosmKwrAbI
Worth 20 mins of your time for an ordered viewpoint

Russell Brown

Mon, 04 Jul 2016 12:16:17 +1200

I am a remain supporter, but I have just about had enough of the entitled whining from the remain camp. There have been serious discussions in the quality press in the UK at the need to do away with the universal franchise, like a bunch of urban middle class yellow…

Tom Semmens

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 21:09:56 +1200

Without the Remain voters, Corbyn is stuffed. Thousands of members don’t beat millions of voters, even if they all have placards.

I am a remain supporter, but I have just about had enough of the entitled whining from the remain camp. There have been serious discussions in the quality press…

John Farrell

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 20:05:45 +1200

I have just the thing for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U

andin

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 17:37:51 +1200

thought contagion is evident through vast arenas of human activity.

Its a veritable minefield
Who's monitoring the battleground?
Anyone?...NO ONE!
Booby traps ... everywhere?
Right that's it!
I'm building a wall ;-\

simon g

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 16:12:31 +1200

Alfie, I was looking for an irony because I was nonplussed by your reply. Coalition-building doesn't mean what you seem to think it means, by citing Blair's election victories (did you really think they had slipped my mind?).

Labour need votes, ergo a broad coalition of interests. It was ever…

Dennis Frank

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 15:30:36 +1200

Indeed, and I don't disagree with anything you wrote. Although social darwinism didn't stick as ideology, it often appears to be working out in real life in various social contexts. Most obviously, as driven by market forces. You could also cite team sports, eh?

Memetics has achieved considerable traction. There…

Dennis Frank

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 15:00:16 +1200

Give it a try. There'd be a tad less chance we all die of boredom.

Alfie

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 13:32:24 +1200

It can be hard to pick up irony online, so I’ll have to guess that’s what you are trying here. Otherwise, I can only suggest re-reading and understanding what “building a coalition” obviously means.

If you see any irony in my statement Simon, you're probably looking too hard. You disagree…

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:53:14 +1200

Maybe now would be a good time for an HDCA complaint against Mr Frank.

Tom Johnson

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:32:38 +1200

Actually now we are all pro-europe here in n.z how about a 35 hour working week and more taxing up the top. Let's show our support by copying France.

andin

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:24:37 +1200

people evolved

Ever heard of social darwinism? Its the wrongheaded belief that societies "evolve" like species do in their natural state.It turned out a very nasty meme "survival of the fittest"
If you want societies to evolve to be "better" it takes a lot of conscious effort by everyone in…

simon g

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:18:24 +1200

It can be hard to pick up irony online, so I'll have to guess that's what you are trying here. Otherwise, I can only suggest re-reading and understanding what "building a coalition" obviously means.

Meanwhile, are we still going with the assumption that "protest in London = votes in the…

Dennis Frank

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:31:10 +1200

The nations where people evolved sufficiently are those that adopted democracy. The definition google offers for racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

As…

andin

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:01:23 +1200

nations where people are sufficiently evolved.
Which nations?

John Palethorpe

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 09:11:40 +1200

So, have you always been a racist twerp or did you take evening classes?

Dennis Frank

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 09:00:00 +1200

The situation in Iraq derives from the sunni/shia divide, more then a millennia of dualist sectarian culture-polarising, makes ulster folk seem enlightened and peaceful in comparison. The idea that westerners could help was always ridiculous.

Also, democracy only takes root in nations where people are sufficiently evolved. Trying to enforce…

Sacha

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:46:54 +1200

the wrong tolerance of urban liberals

If you're looking for problematic tolerance, how about voters going along with a century of European and American interference in the Middle East? Extremism does not happen in a vacuum.

John Palethorpe

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:33:07 +1200

It is rather amusing to see Marc put it on the liberal class for not intervening.

ISIS wouldn't have existed without Blair's delightful little Iraq adventure with his mate George. Blair, in particular, is that urban liberal class you now criticise for not intervening. I suppose there's a 'you break…

nzlemming

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:22:18 +1200

If your answer to racism, neglect of other cultures and abandonment of support for basic human rights is NZFirst, you really don't understand the question.

Marc C

Sun, 03 Jul 2016 01:03:40 +1200

As for the above comments, I think I have displayed perfectly why Labour or even Greens are un-voteable, indeed I consider, despite huge reservations, to for the first time to vote for NZ First, aghast really. Who would fall for this continuum and abject failure of a defunct government, that…

Marc C

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 23:11:16 +1200

As for the rest of Brexit, we all know that the following played a role too, and honestly, I and others had quite enough of the wrong tolerance of urban liberals, which has destroyed the votability of left parties.

[DELETED. PLEASE DON'T POST ISLAMIC STATE VIDEOS HERE. RB]

I know…

Marc C

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 22:02:29 +1200

Meanwhile USA, what side are you on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r5P1z4OWWo

Marc C

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 21:59:21 +1200

Ever so fitting, some Brits have brains and are outspoken at the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh0ac5HUpDU

Most seem to live in exile.

Marc C

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 21:31:30 +1200

As a person living in NZ with close connection to continental Europe, I think it is about time to tell the Brits to get stuffed, go and take your hike and see how you get on. We have observed for so many years, how the British governments have sought a…

Alfie

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 15:11:19 +1200

Labour have never won without that coalition, and dare I say, never will

Never? Only if you conveniently overlook 1997, 2001 and 2005. Labour won an outright majority in all three of those elections, albeit under Blair.

simon g

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 13:17:06 +1200

Some are "grassroots Labour supporters". Some aren't. There's plenty of evidence on that there internet to demonstrate that these aren't all salt-of-the-earth Labour folks, wanting to build a coalition to win (and Labour have never won without that coalition, and dare I say, never will). The parallels with 1983 have…

Alfie

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 11:49:36 +1200

Not that simple, Alfie. Membership of what?

Grassroots Labour supporters, Simon. There are lots of them, they're not happy with the PLP coup and they're flexing their democratic options. This feels like the beginning of a revolution. Hopefully.

Can the Tories really support Gove? Ignoring his total lack of charisma…

nzlemming

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 00:50:57 +1200

Meanwhile, in Austria.

That's... a little scary...

Rich Lock

Sat, 02 Jul 2016 00:10:02 +1200

in the so called former "Weimar Republic".

Meanwhile, in Austria.

Marc C

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 23:36:14 +1200

If it were not for the fact that the UK has a FFP voting system, and if it were not for the fact it is still a constitutional monarcy, it could well be heading into territory that was the "normal" in the so called former "Weimar Republic".

Rob Stowell

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 22:03:39 +1200

And while all this bloodlust unfolds, Corbyn is away at the Somme. That's poetry :)

Tom Semmens

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 20:17:55 +1200

The Portland Communications coordinated Blairite coup looks like it will collapse. The key problem for the PLP Blairite majority is they know they would almost all lose their seats if they stood as some sort of new, not-as-bad-as-whoever-is-running-the-Tories Peter Dunne clones, so for all thier air of superiority they know…

nzlemming

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 18:36:27 +1200

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-gains-60000-new-members-following-attempted-coup-against-corbyn-a7112336.html

John Palethorpe

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:48:06 +1200

I doubt that Corbyn's lost the support of 80,000 Labour members in ten months. That's how big his majority is – not against his nearest rival, but the total of all three rivals he beat in 2015.

He was 80,000 ahead twelve months ago, when the membership resoundingly rejected the…

John Palethorpe

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:44:06 +1200

Arron Banks, a big funder of UKIP, is apparently working on the next party – the one to either replace, or for UKIP to morph into.

simon g

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:42:05 +1200

I think UKIP will do fine if there's a whiff of "betrayal". And in less than a week, it sounds like there will be. Immigration Set to Continue Shock!

A real irony here – both the illiberal right and the uncompromising left are feeding their own Dolchstosslegende.

simon g

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:35:44 +1200

Not that simple, Alfie. Membership of what?

It's like people commenting on the Standard or Daily Blog telling Labour what to do. The party probably shouldn't take much advice from Mana.

Take a good look at those protest placards. In short: Socialist Worker isn't Labour, and London Labour isn't UK…

Alfie

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:31:23 +1200

Meanwhile 10,000 people turned up in Parliament Square to support Jeremy Corbyn. And an online petition supporting Corbyn has gathered more than quarter of a million votes in just 24 hours.

Corbyn has the support of the membership is not going anywhere.

Rob Stowell

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:27:50 +1200

do you think that Farage is the sort to quietly slide off into the background?
No. But he wouldn’t be the only politician in this imbroglio to have painted himself into a corner without any plan for what comes next.

Rob S

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:19:15 +1200

Given they are more-or-less a one-policy party, and that policy is about to happen – do they have anywhere to grow? Or will they disappear as irrelevant?

Shit like that don't stop.

I don't see the U.K. as being in the same mould as '30s Germany but do you think…

Rob Stowell

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:48:05 +1200

Labour busted down as UKIP surge ?
I don't quite understand how UKIP have a future. Given they are more-or-less a one-policy party, and that policy is about to happen – do they have anywhere to grow? Or will they disappear as irrelevant?

simon g

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:41:07 +1200

So often we read history books and wonder how a particular cluster***k happened. In Britain now they're living through the perfect example of why and how it does.

A history classroom, decades hence:

"So that's how the UK ceased to exist. Scotland left the union after the UK left the…

Alfie

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:30:09 +1200

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6HNXtdvVQ

Boris Johnson's HQ as the EU referendum result comes in.

Via The Standard

John Palethorpe

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:29:39 +1200

May benefits from Labour's turmoil as well. She's already working the line that her lack of visibility in the Referendum was because she was Getting Shit Done as Home Secretary – really going for the 'The boys have had their fun, let's get on with it' persona.

The Tory voters…

Rob Stowell

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:21:12 +1200

If they weren't so busy shooting each other it would be a plum for Labour. Gove is an unlikeable ideologue. May looks more electable, on the surface. But as a 'remain' advocate, she'd face a fair bit of internal turmoil – and Tory voters might not warm to her. Corbyn…

John Palethorpe

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:21:09 +1200

Tory reckons here – https://shinbonestar.org/2016/07/01/subtle-vicious/

The Tories haven't had a eurosceptic PM, but it's likely they will now. Hague, IDS and Howard were – but they were also failures.

Boris? Well, a decade of edging towards the job he wanted and he gets ankle tapped by Michael Fucking Gove in…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:01:49 +1200

The UK conservatives have almost never elected the frontrunner as leader (since they acquired a formal method, pre-1964 the leader just emerged).

Usually, any politician who has been in cabinet a while and is seen as a front runner has sufficient enemies that they can't win. Heath, Thatcher and Major…

Alfie

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 13:33:20 +1200

There was a political reporter on the BBC last night who seemed to be well informed. According to him, Gove called MPs into his office Thursday morning and said, "I don't think Boris is up to it. So I'm standing instead."

He gave the impression that Boris was the last…

Dennis Frank

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 12:50:03 +1200

From the Guardian: " Johnson once said that there was more chance of him being reincarnated as an olive or finding Elvis on Mars than becoming prime minister. And thanks to the moves of his erstwhile friend, that appears to be a more accurate prediction than he could have imagined."

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:43:38 +1200

“What a catalyst you turned out to be. ...”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmoHv8Mf_-o
What ho? What if?
Hello-Hurray – it's the price to pay to the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles
Hello-Hurray – I'd prefer the plague to the Eton Rifles, Eton Rifles

Interesting to see that Stephen Frears and Michael Seresin both worked…

simon g

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:04:44 +1200

Epitaph for Boris Johnson, as seen on Twitter:

"What a catalyst you turned out to be. Loaded the guns, then you run off home for your tea."

(Eton Rifles, of course ... )

John Palethorpe

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 08:31:43 +1200

Realistically it's between Michael Gove and Theresa May then. Both of them will be invoking Article 50, given their statements.

Gove is a pure idealogue on this sort of thing, I have experience running up against him during his tenure as Education Secretary.

May is the arch-pragmatist. She's posed as…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 07:39:06 +1200

Great gimbling Slytherin toves!
Or is it just that the UK is going through a 'bad spell'?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/books/81643898/jk-rowling-loses-twitter-followers-over-eu-brexit-stance
I can detect strong whiffs of 'Confundus', 'Flipendo', 'Expulso ', 'Stupefy ' and 'Obliviate'!
They desperately need a 'Reparo' and 'Ennervate ' cast soon!
http://www.pojo.com/harrypotter/spelist.shtml

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 07:18:09 +1200

truly Poe-faced?
I note that the National Party Drama Society are rehearsing their play ‘The Masque of the Red Death’ at the Chateau on the Park in Chchch at dusk this evening (July 1st)
The story takes place at the castellated abbey of the “happy and dauntless and…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 06:51:56 +1200

the faraway Farage farrago...
the Bullingdon playbook: you break it and someone else has to fix it.
...and Johnson does look like someone who "has never had a 'real job' in his life"
– Who's laughing now?

nzlemming

Fri, 01 Jul 2016 00:35:00 +1200

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/boris-johnson-and-theresa-may-go-head-to-head-in-conservative-le/

Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron said: "Boris follows the Bullingdon playbook: you break it and someone else has to fix it."

nzlemming

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:49:15 +1200

Things are getting even odder. Boris will not now stand as Tory leader

Ahahahahahahahahaha! That is so Boris. Complete twatcock.

Tamsin6

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:01:16 +1200

Things are getting even odder. Boris will not now stand as Tory leader.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 22:22:28 +1200

Regarding the Blairite ructions in UK Labour, I'm coming to the realisation that it may not be so much a rebellion as it is a last stand. And it seems Brexit has made Blairism even more of a product of the decade that gave us Britpop.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 22:16:58 +1200

Labour (here and there) needs to give the voters something to vote for rather than count on us voting against the government, and it needs to be something other than “more of the same, with different coloured ties on”.

For me, they already have, and it's closely related to the…

John Palethorpe

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:46:32 +1200

Cor, Gary Younge is on form: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/brexit-disaster-decades-in-the-making

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:49:15 +1200

Pretty confrontational.

If Eagle runs against Corbyn, I think she'll struggle to win the 40,000+ votes she needs, against a background of the Chilcot enquiry reminding the electorate (which hasn't changed since last year) of the war.

If Corbyn gets banned from standing (which would probably involve a court challenge)…

John Palethorpe

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:53:06 +1200

Except, of course, Eagle voted in favour of the war – as did most of the PLP. And that's a real sore point with the membership.

Ed Miliband didn't, because he wasn't an MP then. Neither did Corbyn.

Marc C

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:50:48 +1200

The discussion here is interesting, but most commenters seem to be continuing to be concerned about the "Brexit" and the consequences for the UK. Focus now seems to be on the British 'Labour' Party and who will be the new or possibly re-confirmed leader.

It appears to me that the…

David Hood

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:22:09 +1200

Angela Eagle is saying she is going to run for Leader, this is going to place the Chilcot Report in the campaign period. Which is probably healthy for Labour in the long run as it lets everyone express their opinion (assuming people accept the result of this campaign).

Dennis Frank

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:22:42 +1200

I see two scenarios looming – potential futures. The first takes the form of a government `in the national interest' that reconciles the tory divide by bringing UKIP back into the fold via collaboration between Boris Johnson & Nigel Farage. Watch for this media report:

"Our political reporter has been advised…

Dennis Frank

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:02:50 +1200

Yes, that's an excellent summary and overview. I trust you will apply your considerable acuity to the political terrain of Aotearoa, where endeavours of the intellect are always conspicuous by their absence!

That `third way' of the blairites was an exercise in fakery. They recycled the concept from the early…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 07:26:04 +1200

Alas in wondering land...
Man, that Farage is a graceless oik (after watching his taunting tirade in the European Parliament in the last few days – the soccer hooligan party) and Cameron calling for Corbyn to stand down – when did we pass through the Looking Glass?

nzlemming

Thu, 30 Jun 2016 01:05:59 +1200

Here's a collection of background thoughts and future thoughts on Corbyn

https://shinbonestar.org/2016/06/29/the-long-war/

Well said, John, and far more eloquently than I.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:44:48 +1200

FPP prevents any of it.

Only three parties have ever been in government in the UK during the nearly 400 years since they stopped being an absolute monarchy: Tories/Conservatives, Whigs/Liberals and Labour. The Liberal => Labour transition occurred in the late 19th and early 20th century as working class man…

John Palethorpe

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:56:15 +1200

Here's a collection of background thoughts and future thoughts on Corbyn

https://shinbonestar.org/2016/06/29/the-long-war/

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:41:20 +1200

In a sensible political system, the rump PLP (made up of Blairites, Brownites, careerists and those who don’t really care if the government bombs foreigners and throws people out of jobs so long as they use the correct language around their chosen identity group) would accept the loss of Labour,…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:36:06 +1200

In a sensible political system, the rump PLP (made up of Blairites, Brownites, careerists and those who don't really care if the government bombs foreigners and throws people out of jobs so long as they use the correct language around their chosen identity group) would accept the loss of Labour,…

nzlemming

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:35:11 +1200

But I honestly doubt the PLP can focus on Boris.

That is the metaphor in the woodpile, yes.

nzlemming

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:34:20 +1200

But can we get past the idea that the only people who don't have faith in Corbyn any more are Blaire dead-enders? It's plainly not the case.

There are a lot of Blair dead-enders, though, and a lot of people who've come into the Houses since Blairism started to rise.…

David Hood

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:07:40 +1200

I would speculate that if the PLP can focus on Boris Johnson, they could actually win the next election- assuming he is PM he will be the person that a) left Europe b) broke all the promises about what would happen about leaving. He is going to be hated by…

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:57:28 +1200

Cute quip but missing the point.

You did kind of set up the joke!

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:56:37 +1200

If UK Labour could manage to offer a fix for the EU situation (basically, concede acceptance of all EU rules without actual membership in return for market access) then, once businesses start closing in droves, they could win without much in the way of public love.

That does seem pretty…

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:55:04 +1200

Corbyn believes that Tony Blair should stand trial for war crimes – a position which does not endear him to the remaining Blairites within Labour.

I do want Corbyn to be there for that.

But can we get past the idea that the only people who don't have faith in…

nzlemming

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:35:43 +1200

Although those representatives aren't elected by the party membership, but by millions of constituents.

And it's the constituents who should be putting the most pressure on, but it's the membership who decide the selection process. The PLP has alienated itself from both.

Yeah, but Roy Hodgson has resigned.

Cute quip…

Alfie

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:31:22 +1200

There's no doubt that the parliamentary wing of the Labour Party dislike Corbyn taking the party back to the left. Keep in mind that the Chilcot Report into the Iraq war is about to be released on July 6th, following a near seven year gestation. Corbyn believes that [[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/22/jeremy-corbyn-preparing-to-call-for-tony-blair-to-be-investigate/|Tony Blair…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:21:54 +1200

(UK) Labour won in 1974 though. Not because they were particularly united (the Healey supporters were widely at odds with the Bennites) or because the mass of the UK population were particularly in love with them – they won because of a crisis.

It was more of a material crisis…

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 15:13:03 +1200

While he has the allegiance of the membership, he’s safe as leader. What the membership need to do is put pressure on their elected reps to get their shit together and actually do their job.

Although those representatives aren't elected by the party membership, but by millions of constituents.

He…

nzlemming

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 14:33:52 +1200

Your confidence that, having been overwhelmingly rejected by his MPs and had his shadow Cabinet wrecked to the extent that he's struggling to fill it with supporters, he will soon display hitherto unseen qualities and lead Labour to victory (or even run an effective Opposition) is admirable, but I don't…

simon g

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 14:32:54 +1200

In 1983 UK Labour campaigned on a manifesto that was considerably to the left of current Corbyn. That was the famous "longest suicide note", which incidentally included a commitment to withdraw from Europe (as it then was, much smaller than the current version).

In 1997 the same party won power,…

B Jones

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 14:23:30 +1200

Reminds me of David Lange in 1989. NZ Labour got most of a decade in the wilderness for those crazy five years, and a permanent hole in its left wing support base that's only been filled when it plays nicely with its support parties. Building a majority isn't an easy…

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 13:24:46 +1200

Let me amend that. I expect to see a different Corbyn. You may see what you will.

I had no strong feelings either way about Corbyn, but what I'm seeing now is a man whose day-to-day job is leading the Parliamentary Labour Party. And 80% of those he is supposed…

nzlemming

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 12:57:44 +1200

Let me amend that. I expect to see a different Corbyn. You may see what you will.

nzlemming

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 12:53:44 +1200

Is the more straightforward explanation not that a leader who has now lost a caucus confidence vote 172-40 simply does not have the support of his Parliamentary colleagues?

A party grouping that has swung to the right and is nervous about an actual left-wing leader because they have been inculcated…

Dennis Frank

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:13:18 +1200

How about a game-player perspective? Labour Party members still playing the antique democracy game, recycling the 19th-century conceptual strait-jacket in the millennium in the hope that everyone will be that simple-minded forever.

Labour MPs playing the parliamentary numbers game, knowing their power-plays are closer to political reality than the morons…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:01:56 +1200

I guess it depends on whether you think the members of a party should be allowed to decide the leadership and direction of that party, or whether you prefer the model (as in NZ National and the CCP) where control flows from the top down and the members are instructed…

John Palethorpe

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:59:30 +1200

Different electoral system then, too – and much less of a battle between ideologies within the party.

The changes which swept Corbyn in were demanded by those MPs who didn't want a repeat of The Wrong Miliband getting in thanks to the Union vote. They wanted more membership power, trusting…

David Hood

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:20:57 +1200

If Corbyn's popularity among is fellow MPs keeps increasing linearly at the present rate (based on the two data points of the leadership race and now), in 18 months he will have a majority of MPs supporting him.

David Hood

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:46:18 +1200

Probably, but what I understand is that the MPs specifically want is both Corbyn out, and for him not to stand in a leadership contest because they think he would win. There seem to have been a number in the Parliamentary Labour Party that have been refighting the leadership campaign…

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:24:58 +1200

So Corbyn lost a non-binding no confidence vote among MPs 172 to 40.

From The Guardian’s story. When the party rules were revised in 1993, making such a vote formally binding was not considered necessary:

David Ward said John Smith, the previous leader for whom he was chief of staff,…

David Hood

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 07:36:17 +1200

So Corbyn lost a non-binding no confidence vote among MPs 172 to 40.

Which probably makes him more popular among MPs than in the original Labour leadership election campaign.

Russell Brown

Wed, 29 Jun 2016 07:35:37 +1200

From Labour’s perspective, it is. The Blairites are the right wing, Third Way, centrists so beloved of Blair. I’m not saying Benn et al are being advised by CrosbyTextor, but it’s a classic CT ploy, and well publicised, and I doubt that they aren’t being encouraged by their “friends” across…

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:38:45 +1200

I think you'll find that Caleb said the first paragraph.

Well, yeah, but it wouldnt have made any sense if I hadn't included it to give it context.

And within the context, my (I argue not unreasonable) assumption was that you were referring to the tories. Them being notorious cat-chuckers…

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:14:01 +1200

I think Corbyn is a lot closer to the traditional Labour voters and their beliefs in what a government should do than Greenslade is willing to give him credit for

The Labour party on the other hand, has a lot of 'splainin' to do, Lucy.

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:13:06 +1200

I think you'll find that Caleb said the first paragraph. I added a comment that I did not think it accidental that we were talking about Corbyn. Somebody wants it that way. The dead cat distraction is most definitely one of the weapons that CT employ. Its use is well…

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 23:08:37 +1200

To quote you in full, with added emphasis

The Tories have just presided over the greatest disaster in the country's history since WWII and we're talking about Corbyn?

I do not believe that is accidental, myself.
#deadcat #CrosbyTextorPlaybook

You have now clarified thusly...

I'm not saying Benn et al are…

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:47:35 +1200

Give this a read. Greenslade nails UK Labour's problem.

Not bad, but I don't agree as much with this bit:
There is a now mismatch between what Corbyn and his supporters believe; what the majority of Labour MPs believe; and what the wider community of traditional Labour voters believe.

I…

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:35:45 +1200

It's not the tories resigning en masse from the shadow cabinet.

From Labour's perspective, it is. The Blairites are the right wing, Third Way, centrists so beloved of Blair. I'm not saying Benn et al are being advised by CrosbyTextor, but it's a classic CT ploy, and well publicised, and…

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:16:43 +1200

Give this a read. Greenslade nails UK Labour's problem.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/jun/28/why-jeremy-corbyn-is-not-the-labour-partys-real-problem

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:53:53 +1200

I do not believe that is accidental, myself.
#deadcat #CrosbyTextorPlaybook

Ok, so, if this is a dead cat play, where's the corpse? And who threw it?

The thing about the dead cat, is because it's dead and incapable of moving by itself, someone needs to have thrown it onto the…

Ben Austin

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:25:27 +1200

Well I can confirm this, almost all of my centrist/left NZ friends who've now lived in London for a few years cannot bring themselves to support Labour at present. These are people I know who've voted Labour and Greens in NZ (so far as anyone can know who someone else…

Ben Austin

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:20:54 +1200

Agreed, although I'm also equally interested in what to do _next_ as well.

First thing seems easy enough, support the Mayor in his attempts to gain more autonomy for London, both permanently and in short term to be part of negotiations for Brexit.

Second is harder, I'll probably have to…

Caleb D'Anvers

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:47:45 +1200

+1.

The Blairite conspiracists, meanwhile, remind me of nothing so much as United Future. A bunch of clueless non-entities representing a mythical “centrist” electorate that doesn’t actually exist.

David Hood

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:45:23 +1200

London had a mean Remain vote of 60.9% and a median 61.6%, Islington (i.e. Corbyn area) was 75.22% Remain. about 15% above the region

Yorkshire and The Humber had a mean Remain vote of 41.35% and a median 43.22%, Leeds (i.e. Hilary Benn area) was 50.31% Remain. about 9% above…

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:35:19 +1200

The Tories have just presided over the greatest disaster in the country's history since WWII and we're talking about Corbyn?

I do not believe that is accidental, myself.
#deadcat #CrosbyTextorPlaybook

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:34:21 +1200

The Tories have just presided over the greatest disaster in the country's history since WWII and we're talking about Corbyn?

Yeah, well, I'll repeat what I said upthread:

So the Labour opposition have somehow contrived to achieve the in-the-circumstances almost impossible feat of wrestling the spotlight off the government of…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:25:08 +1200

On the main topic:
Geoffrey Robertson (QC, incidentally) sez what I was thinking

The UK government can't trigger Article 50 without first getting legislation to repeal the European Communities Act through Commons and Lords.

Caleb D'Anvers

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:23:55 +1200

I don't think Corbyn is anywhere nearly as incompetent as he's being portrayed. Just as I think Miliband would've been a really quite good Prime Minister. The issue here is media framing. The Tories have just presided over the greatest disaster in the country's history since WWII and we're talking…

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:20:04 +1200

In the context of the moment though, extraordinary rendition isn't relevant.

With Corbyn playing the straightest possible bat, giving the Blairites ANYTHING to with spin on to throw at him is dumb.

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:13:04 +1200

Crimes of the Corbynites:
– student activists being mildly nasty on Facebook

Crimes of the Blairites
– their leader organising to kidnap people and send them to Libya to be tortured

Obviously, the Corbynites are way worse…

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:01:28 +1200

But the fact the resignees were planning this before the Oldham by election and the Council elections – any opportunity for Corbyn to fail, and he didn't – puts me on his side of this.

Add that to the fact that their opportunism means that now, with the Tories in…

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:56:34 +1200

Corbyn has shown himself to be pretty bad at his job

Yes, but...

– zero honeymoon period
– little to no support from parliamentary/party apparatus
– sections of the party actively working against him from day one
– attempted a negotiation and consensus style of leadership, rather than confrontational
-…

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:50:50 +1200

Yeah, there's no winners in this – some of the language the anti-Blairite lot are using is verging on the stuff Tommy Mair was into when he murdered Labour MP Jo Cox earlier this month. Exterminate the Blairite Vermin and all that.

You know, I don't think Corbyn's been great…

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:50:15 +1200

Some people in "Italy, France, Denmark & Netherlands Call For EU Referendums".
Guess who?

Yeah, I know, and they're referencing the Express, so....

But it has been cited as a concern for the EU in more sober journals, too.

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:49:03 +1200

This column from the Grauniad is good Britain faces leaderless turmoil. But don’t worry, Boris is back from the cricket

Boris is no doubt waiting for some of Mrs Gove's "clever people" to sort it out for him.

ETA Beautiful quote:
"As for Labour, the rolling pageant of departures from…

John Farrell

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:42:43 +1200

Some people in "Italy, France, Denmark & Netherlands Call For EU Referendums".
Guess who?

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:38:46 +1200

I actually have no idea how accurate this outfit is but Italy, France, Denmark & Netherlands Call For EU Referendums

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:26:47 +1200

This is precisely my view, with added essence of Momentum anti-semitism (a distressingly common trend in the modern left-Left).

You're quoting the Torygraph, now?

I'm not doubting that anti-semitism exists, yes even in the hallowed halls of Oxbridge, but isn't this like tarring John Key with every act committed by…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:24:20 +1200

Whip it good!
Actually it was just a smutty one-liner.
Doh!
I geddit ( I was thinking you Wellingtonians call it the Dom)
I'll plead a bad cold relapse for my cloth ears,
everything else is blocked as well...

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:05:35 +1200

“Both vigorously deny the claims” – it’s not unheard of for organs like the Telegraph to just make shit up, you know. And there is an influential minority that conflate Zionism with Judaism and the Jewish race, allowing any criticism of Israel to be treated as anti-semetic.

Corbyn won with…

Russell Brown

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:03:50 +1200

I would add that there's pretty clearly a cynical Blairite gambit going on. I just don't think that's all it is.

Russell Brown

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:47:54 +1200

Corbyn has been attacked constantly by the right-wing tabloids, by Blairites, by all manner of opponents, in bad faith. AND …

Corbyn has shown himself to be pretty bad at his job.

This is precisely my view, with added essence of Momentum anti-semitism (a distressingly common trend in the modern…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:50:38 +1200

Basically, the UK establishment rely on Labour as their plan B. When the Tories become too toxic, a Blair-style figure can get in and put a new face on the same policies.

Corbyn's destroyed this insurance policy and that's what they're terrified of – an actual left-wing government

frank stark

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:43:29 +1200

Hi Ian:

Actually it was just a smutty one-liner.

But, seriously, I read all news text now with my hands in my pockets to prevent me reaching for my gun – or at least a blue pencil.

David Hood

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:44:13 +1200

The number of rejected votes is nowhere near enough to make a difference, being a tiny fraction of a percent.

However, as the percentage of the community voting Remain rises, so does the percentage of rejected votes. So people voting Leave are better at putting a cross in a box.…

David Hood

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:30:19 +1200

The Chilcot Report is about to come out. I would speculate that those Blairites keen on a coup regardless of the Brexit outcome (so those pushing the 24th as a date for a while before the campaign and result) would rather Labour was not led by someone happy to call…

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:16:49 +1200

Oh, because they really really really didn't expect him to win in the first place and he's had about as much full throated support as Colin Craig.

They have spent the last ten months preparing for an opportune moment. The Oldham & Bassetlaw by-election was supposed to be the moment, as…

simon g

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:05:52 +1200

Only half-true.

Corbyn has been attacked constantly by the right-wing tabloids, by Blairites, by all manner of opponents, in bad faith. AND …

Corbyn has shown himself to be pretty bad at his job.

Being attacked by the bad guys doesn’t automatically make a leader good. It’s a reason to…

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:56:10 +1200

Why do you think they are so desperate to smear him?

Because he makes them look bad by actually being left wing. The malcontents are Blair acolytes.

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:53:50 +1200

Yes, that's the issue.

Thanks

Matthew Hooton

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:37:58 +1200

The point is, Labour MPs are desperate to smear Corbyn and are resorting to desperate stuff like this,

Why do you think they are so desperate to smear him?

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:37:25 +1200

If anything, Labour have completely swept aside the pound plummeting, the UK credit rating dropping and the Tory leadership contest – and they still think they're doing the right thing.

At a moment of complete crisis, they imploded. How very, very disappointing.

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:22:27 +1200

Here's a prime example. Corbyn fronted Remain, but was also realistic about the EU's failing. On Referendum Day, he tweeted that he had voted Remain.

So, resigning Shadow Cabinet member Chris Bryant goes on television and implies that Corbyn actually, secretly, voted Leave instead – even though there's no evidence…

Russell Brown

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:21:00 +1200

Or do I need to have text in the post as well as attaching an image?

Yes, that's the issue.

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:18:01 +1200

The thing is, they genuinely believe they're doing the right thing by Britain. Hence the tears and the fury. They think a new leader is needed, although they can't actually name who that person is – because that'd really trigger a leadership challenge.

They believe that a united Parliamentary Labour…

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:09:41 +1200

Trying a JPG

nzlemming

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:07:51 +1200

Russell, I seem to have broken PAS again by posting an image. Does Supermodel not like PNG files, or something?

Or do I need to have text in the post as well as attaching an image?

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:43:48 +1200

The 1922 Committee, the Tory backbench group, has brought forward the leadership election. Candidates will be able to be nominated from Tuesday UK time, meaning the eventual new leader/PM will be in by early September. Three months though, a loooooong time.

Meanwhile Corbyn's going nowhere, despite the Parliamentary Labour Party…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:33:18 +1200

from pillage to post...
Looks like the 'Leavers' are salting the wells and trying to obliterate their tracks...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/27/brexit-campaign-wipes-website-clear-sparking-speculation-it-is-hiding-its-promises/

they are so dumb they haven't even heard of the wayback mchine it appears
having said that this http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave still seems live and what a typo riddled amateur hour job this…

John Palethorpe

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:32:52 +1200

That, right there, is the problem facing a lot of voters – 'who out there looks like they'll represent me?'

So when a populist party comes along with easy solutions to complex problems, and the main parties are filled with disappointing failures from the last Labour Govt and disappointing failures…

Tamsin6

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:46:44 +1200

Yes, I know what you mean. My problem is, not sure who to vote for instead...

Ben Austin

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:30:33 +1200

I have Hoey, although to be fair to her she has been for Brexit for a while, long before I moved to her constituency.

Suffice to say I won't be voting for her. It's going to be a while before I can vote for a Leaver, especially a prominent one.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:28:13 +1200

Peris cope….
Need to point out that the Dom has subs…
But as I understand they are hamstrung by Fairfax’s ‘Right First Time’ policy where journalists copy goes direct to page, virtually unmediated, with subs barely given time to throw a heading on it (though I hear the journalists are…

Tamsin6

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:27:21 +1200

My local MP is John Cryer, chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party (so quite likely to be a bit busy just now) – he was also a Leave voter in a Remain electorate. He has a statement on his website explaining his position. It is fair to say he is…

frank stark

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:52:41 +1200

Need to point out that the Dom has subs...

Sacha

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 07:11:09 +1200

Lessons for the left.

A much better reaction to Brexit and to what now appears to be a wave of anti-establishment reaction across western democracies, would be for social democratic political parties to look for ways to re-engage with the electorate, and particularly the working class, on progressive issues.

That…

Caleb D'Anvers

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 03:52:38 +1200

Nick Clegg in the Financial Times on Cameron's unforgiveable complacency:
David Cameron and George Osborne ... alone are responsible for bringing our great country to this sorry pass.

This need never have happened. When we were in coalition with the Conservatives I was repeatedly asked by them to agree to…

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 03:23:36 +1200

After his election, many people, myself included, flocked back to a party they’d completely written off.

I signed up as a supporter specifically to vote for him at the leadership election. Although I generally have no issue with him, I'm very unimpressed with his referedum performance. So he's probably not…

Caleb D'Anvers

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:59:34 +1200

Many in the PLP seem to despise Corbyn more than they do the Conservatives. They appear to have little in common with the constituencies they represent, no understanding of working peoples’ lives or opinions, and something approaching contempt for the membership of the party. Chris Bryant, former Shadow Leader of…

Ben Austin

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:46:52 +1200

The Labour Party issue is one that seems inevitable though, to an outsider at least. He wasn't liked by most of the parliamentary party but the scale of his victory and perhaps the possibility of his popularity delivering results in the recent elections made it about impossible to do anything…

Rich Lock

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:18:03 +1200

I think the Conservatives will come in for their share, but this Labour meltdown is just too distracting.

So the Labour opposition have somehow contrived to achieve the in-the-circumstances almost impossible feat of wrestling the spotlight off the government of the day (the ones who actually completely stuffed the country,…

Ben Austin

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:48:02 +1200

I think the Conservatives will come in for their share, but this Labour meltdown is just too distracting.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:03:26 +1200

That this is now all being blamed on Labour,

Which is so dizzyingly absurd, I'm sure David Cameron will be mirthlessly amused if he ever drops by.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:48:39 +1200

I’d also point out that disproportionate support for “leave” in Labour strongholds isn’t the same thing as Labour supporters voting leave. By and large, these voters probably weren’t Labour. Instead, they were largely habitual non-voters or what used to be called the “Tory working class,” largely invisible under First Past…