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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Speaker: A conversation from belief</title>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338644#post338644</link>
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						<p>Safran. That’s him :) Thanks. I found the series wonderfully provocative, full of sarcasm, but honest and even handed in its approach.</p><p>I’m sure that Tangi was a good experience.</p><p>I should note that I don’t see evolution and the Genesis narratives as contradictory worldviews or understandings of the truth…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2015 09:05:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338639#post338639</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338639#post338639</guid>
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						I love it, Steven. That made me laugh :) For what it's worth I believe in both the Big Bang, followed by evolution, AND Genesis. Trying to explain that in this forum would take far too long though, so again I'll just point to John Walton's NIV Application Commentary on…
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				<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:25:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338614#post338614</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338614#post338614</guid>
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						<p>Lee, firstly and genuinely, thank you for your honesty.</p><p>Allow me to address a couple of things:</p><p><q>Do I need to explain how this undermines your claim that your god exists “inside you”? Do I need to explain the massive social divisions this suggests is the purpose of your god?…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2015 19:55:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Lee R</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338564#post338564</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338564#post338564</guid>
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						<p>Hello Francis,</p><p>I think this is what stands in the way, hypothetically, between you and me, or people like me and people like you, no matter how well you listen, or how much effort you give to assisting people in need:</p><p><q>"... all people are endowed with a morality that…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:00:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338510#post338510</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338510#post338510</guid>
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						For what it's worth I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much all of that comment. And far from having your receiver turned off, judging by that comment, it's functioning very well indeed ;)
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 19:28:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>andin</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338503#post338503</link>
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						<p><q> So hopefully we can all extend patience, empathy, humility etc towards one another.</q></p><p>That go for stephen joyce (and others) as well? :-))</p><p>Hey I know many of the religious persuasion try to live good lifes. But being as such, is not a guarantee. We all screw up. And if…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:56:39 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338456#post338456</link>
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						Brilliant!
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:36:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338455#post338455</link>
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						<p>Mitch Benn points out the limits of Lennon's song:<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zP0xYv0sZk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zP0xYv0sZk</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:31:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338450#post338450</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338450#post338450</guid>
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						<p><q>Nice post Francis. I found myself nodding a lot as I read it (and not in a going to sleep way).</q></p><p>I'm glad you managed to stay awake! :)</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 12:01:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Chopper</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338448#post338448</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338448#post338448</guid>
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						Nice post Francis. I found myself nodding a lot as I read it (and not in a going to sleep way).
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:52:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338423#post338423</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338423#post338423</guid>
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						<p>Thanks, Oliver. As a fan of Lennon myself I loved that mention of him! I know many Christians dismiss his song, Imagine, but I find a lot in it that resonates with my faith.</p><p>Thanks for sharing about the warmth of what you encountered growing up as well, even though…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:47:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338421#post338421</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338421#post338421</guid>
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						<p><q>So while someone like Frances will argue all the smart bits about Jesus and Faith whole glossing over the weird/nasty bits</q></p><p>Simon, thanks for your comment. Allow me to note that it was never my intent to argue for Christianity here. Nor was my intent to explain everything related to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:38:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Oliver Thompson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338418#post338418</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338418#post338418</guid>
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						Hey Francis, and hi regulars here. Religion and the associated philosophy is a subject that’s interested me most of my life and had a big, practical influence – I grew up in the church, and moved with my family to Dunedin as a primary school child so that my father…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:30:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338411#post338411</link>
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						<p><q>See thats just frustratingly vague. Lets just all close our eyes for a minute and look to the heavens. But it seems that is what this thing called faith is, a whole lot of airy answers to questions that need clarity. Anyhoo good luck with all that.</q></p><p>Andin, please accept…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:13:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Simon Lyall</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338408#post338408</link>
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						<p>The problem with as I see it is that Religion is no longer a source of answers:</p><p>A 2000+ year old document telling explaining how the universe was created, the history of the middle east and how we should treat each other (including foreigners, homosexuals, and women) we now find…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:58:41 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>andin</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338406#post338406</link>
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						<p><q>universal truth set by God (and implanted in various ways, such as culture).</p><p>It’s not an argument that I can spend much time with beyond this as it’s not something I have delved into much (and I can see a million different ways to contradict it, each of which would…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 05:39:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338398#post338398</link>
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						I can, but it is a very quick and dirty graph from the data sitting on Wikipedia (intentional homicide rate by country/ irreligion rate by country) and one of the issues is that while homicide is a reliable indicator  (it gets reported) it is a rare event (so the rate…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 21:24:11 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338397#post338397</link>
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						<p><q> but seems to be the majority view in the US, that atheists are fundamentally untrustworthy. </q></p><p>Because of US culture I wonder how many of the respondents have real live atheists in their lives ;) The beauty of living in New Zealand is the diversity of cultures and views.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:42:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338396#post338396</link>
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						<p><q>The comeback is that the universal truth could exist without God’s involvement too. </q></p><p>True. That's what I point out in the article I wrote on the Stephen Fry comments where I state a case a non-theist could make in response to it.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:39:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338395#post338395</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338395#post338395</guid>
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						That's a fascinating graph, David. Are you able to break that down into countries?
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:37:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338394#post338394</link>
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						<p><q>Not also a balance of goods vs harms? Like “he’s going to miss out on something small, but she’s going to get something big, so that’s OK, in balance”? </q></p><p>That was what I intended to imply with "Utilitarian calculus, the whole of that balancing act. </p><p><q> rather they believe that the…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:33:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338393#post338393</link>
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						<p><q> they believe that the reason most people feel constrained in doing so is because all people are endowed with a morality that is seated in a universal truth set by God (and implanted in various ways, such as culture).</q></p><p>The comeback is that the universal truth could exist without God's…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:30:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338388#post338388</link>
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						<p><q>I find the belief that you can’t absolutely terrifying, as if, were there not a church to tell you right from wrong, you’d just be running around stabbing people in the face whenever the mood took you.</q></p><p>I think the argument is often misunderstood. </p><p>It’s not saying that people who…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:06:24 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338374#post338374</link>
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						<p><q>Sometimes it’s a balance of harms, a utilitarian calculus. </q></p><p>Not also a balance of goods vs harms? Like "he's going to miss out on something small, but she's going to get something big, so that's OK, in balance"? I tend to think we've almost forgotten half of what utilitarianism is…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:12:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338372#post338372</link>
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						<p><q>I find the belief that you can’t absolutely terrifying, as if, were there not a church to tell you right from wrong, you’d just be running around stabbing people in the face whenever the mood took you.</q></p><p>To be fair, Francis did rhetorically say "some make" not "I make", so…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:47:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338362#post338362</link>
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						<p><q>It’s hard to know as the Christian community is so big and diverse.</q></p><p>I was pondering this. Francis’s column reminds me of my mother’s Christianity; open, tolerant and accepting of difference. She was raised, however, by a woman who was massively intolerant of <em>other Christians</em> –   who didn’t, in face,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:49:55 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338354#post338354</link>
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						<p><q>Acceptance is probably more important than humility and whatever else you said.</q></p><p>Good call. It's probably just splitting hairs but I would say that the ability to accept the 'other' where there are differences requires humility. Everything else I mentioned in that sentence, such as empathy etc, is about going…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:32:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>andin</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338351#post338351</link>
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						<p>.<q>I believe in the historical Jesus, that he was both divine and human,</q></p><p>Thats not the historical jesus, thats the mythic fella created when the Nicene creed was written.</p><p><q>Doing difference well starts with some simple concepts</q></p><p>Acceptance is probably more important than humility and whatever else you said.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:25:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338343#post338343</link>
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						<p><q>Do you think this kind of attitude is in the majority amongst your fellow Christians? I mean at this time, rather than in the past.</q></p><p>Good question. It's hard to know as the Christian community is so big and diverse. Doubtless there will definitely be some who think it but…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:36:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338339#post338339</link>
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						<p><q>I’m also not someone who thinks that anyone who doesn’t line up with my own worldview has no basis for an ethical or moral approach to life.</q></p><p>Do you think this kind of attitude is in the majority amongst your fellow Christians? I mean at this time, rather than in…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:25:56 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338324#post338324</link>
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						Yes. Telling people what they are doesn't generally help any discussion.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:49:01 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338320#post338320</link>
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						<p><q>Religion and indoctrination go hand in hand and you sound well and truly indoctrinated</q></p><p>With all due respect, Rae &mdash; this is exactly why I don't talk about my experience of faith around here much, or in any great depth.  To have a part of my life that is intimate,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:42:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338295#post338295</link>
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						<p>Ben, thanks for taking the time. I'm not interested in trying to debate for or against religion or my own specific worldview, but I do want to pick up on this:</p><p><q>There are good principles in many other religions too, and in plenty of people who don't make a religious…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:23:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338288#post338288</link>
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						Francis, I can agree that there are quite a few good principles in teachings attributed to Christ. But as an agnostic bordering on atheism, that's where it ends for me. There are good principles in many other religions too, and in plenty of people who don't make a religious connection…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:01:17 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kevin McCready</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338284#post338284</link>
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						<p>For Russel:<br />My 4 step Guide for journos interviewing religionists<br /><a href="http://kmccready.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/journalists-interviewing-religionists/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://kmccready.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/journalists-interviewing-religionists/</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:54:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338276#post338276</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338276#post338276</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Russell, I’m really glad you had that experience with John. John is a good guy and the broader work of CBA is excellent. Sadly I don’t sit on their board, but I work as one of their announcers at Christmas and Easter when they do stuff for Newstalk ZB. </p><p>The…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:30:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338275#post338275</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338275#post338275</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>A while ago, I agreed to come on as a guest on Newstalk ZB’s <a href="http://www.reallife.net.nz/shows.aspx" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Real Life with John Cowan</a>, which is produced by the Christian Broadcasters Association, where Francis is on the board <em>(er, no he isn't &mdash; see below)</em>.</p><p>It was a good experience. It’s nice to be able…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:24:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338253#post338253</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338253#post338253</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>A quick question: why is your board all blokes?</q></p><p>Ross, I forgot to also add that at this point it wasn't for lack of trying. There a couple of great ladies who came very close to being on this initial board, but in the end they didn't quite see it…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 09:45:56 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Francis Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338231#post338231</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338231#post338231</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>A quick question: why is your board all blokes?</q></p><p>Good question, Ross. My long term ideal is a more diverse board, or at least some functionality that enables a wide range of voices to feed into what NewsLeads does and how it is shaped. Informally that is happening but the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:37:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rae Sott</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338226#post338226</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338226#post338226</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I'm an atheist, I also think that a guy existed in the Middle East, in the past, who is now referred to as Jesus Christ. I think it was probably more likely that he was part of a movement, ahead of its time, in that it did take what would…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:01:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ross Bell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338225#post338225</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338225#post338225</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Thanks for the post Frank.</p><p>A quick question: why is your board all blokes?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:01:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338224#post338224</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-a-conversation-from-belief/?p=338224#post338224</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:01:16 +1200</pubDate>
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