Public Address | Cafe | Southerly: Tower Insurance Have Some Bad News For You

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 04 Dec 2011 21:42:43 +1300

fear facts…
…the Sunday Star Times got the date wrong for the eruption of Mount Pelée – by 85 – yes, eighty-five – years out.
They say:
…for example, in the 1987 eruption of Mt Pelee on the Carribean island of Martinique, 26,000 people caught in the base surge perished…

Islander

Sun, 04 Dec 2011 19:57:50 +1300

So, real proof editors are an officially dead species?
Shame.
They were some of the most learned people I ever met during my (limited) career as a card-carrying journalist. And they were also couth – where as subbies went for
your jugular (and their personal glory), proofreaders strolled around to…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 04 Dec 2011 18:43:34 +1300

And the Sunday Star Times got the date wrong for the eruption of Mount Pelée – by 85 – yes, eighty-five – years out.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 04 Dec 2011 16:55:12 +1300

They shouldn't give up now, if Gerry is refusing to meet them. Why don't they just occupy him instead?

merc

Sat, 03 Dec 2011 23:36:32 +1300

Just who does ECan really serve?

Kumara Republic

Sat, 03 Dec 2011 20:18:44 +1300

ECan said identifying land as liquefaction-prone “only serves to add potential for angst and cost in … development”. The report characterised this as a “dubious approach”.

Is that the post-sacking ECan? Sounds like it's all about the McMansions.

merc

Sat, 03 Dec 2011 15:47:11 +1300

Finally the bare truth of it,
ECan said identifying land as liquefaction-prone "only serves to add potential for angst and cost in ... development". The report characterised this as a "dubious approach".
Auckland Council denote your at risk buildings now.

Just thinking

Wed, 30 Nov 2011 08:42:00 +1300

Being of two minds on these issues as I head back to my office given the exact same assurances. I'm saying the rosary in one mind and the serenity pray in the other.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 30 Nov 2011 07:38:58 +1300

My understanding is that one could be arrested if found in a red-placard building . . .
Seems that the curtain-twitching custodians of the public good now have their own little ratepayer-funded stasi to gather evidence for precisely that kind of prosecution.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:54:06 +1300

I just think they have insulated themselves against all forms of human grief & misery by the
money/power they have & are no longer concerned about any kind of social contract, any kind of looking after ‘one’s neighbour.’

Bad cess to them.

What insulation do they use? I'm guessing barbed wire and…

Islander

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:51:38 +1300

Yes. Sadly.
And, appreciate the word play(of all.)

Hebe

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:46:28 +1300

Sacha

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:45:00 +1300

it's sill inscribed

below the window

Islander

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:42:40 +1300

Yes Joe – I use southern Kai Tahu dialect, but it is there-

I am just – so sad about everything – and cant think of anything more I can do.

Joe Wylie

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:51:43 +1300

There is a very wellknown whakatauki-

"E ki ana koe ki a ahau- he aha te mea nui?
E ki ana ahau ki a koe- he takata, he takata, he takata!"
Thanks for the reminder. Presumably it's sill inscribed, with slightly different spelling but I trust essentially the same meaning,…

Islander

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:38:52 +1300

There is a very wellknown whakatauki-

"E ki ana koe ki a ahau- he aha te mea nui?
E ki ana ahau ki a koe- he takata, he takata, he takata!"

But -that's just for humans...

And I truly think there are people in the power structure of ANZ who…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:56:33 +1300

. . . this old-boy-network crap . . .
Whatever it is, it’s characterised by a lame-arsed ineptitude at dealing with human issues, and a self-serving culture of legally-informed risk aversion with a demonstrably lethal track record. And as the attitudes on display at the current R. commission show, an…

Islander

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:19:30 +1300

I think a lot of this old-boy-network crap is just starting to be dragged out into the public gaze (and stare of horror.)

Just thinking

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:57:01 +1300

The emotions are simmering as people start lying about not knowing of the Earth Quake risk added to the PGC Building LIM in 2006.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-earthquake/6053877/Agents-happy-with-work-on-PGC

Hebe

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:12:40 +1300

Yes. My understanding is that one could be arrested if found in a red-placard building, but green doesn't mean it's safe. Huh?

Joe Wylie

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:41:19 +1300

Perhaps it's telling that the Press appear to have decided against opening online comments on that particular piece.

Hebe

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:38:58 +1300

Scandalous.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-earthquake/6053877/PGC-buildings-safe-tag-questioned

I draw your attention to this bit:

[CCC's Steve] McCarthy said there was debate within the council about the wording of the green placard, which was dictated by the Department of Building and Housing.

The green placard was only based on an external inspection. Building owners were responsible…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:30:17 +1300

BSA win!
But Tower were of the understanding that they'd been issued with a genuine nudge & wink-level loophole. While it didn't actually bear the Government imprimatur there was no way it'd intervene, no matter how loudly those who'd paid their premiums in good faith complained about effectively being told to…

Thomas Johnson

Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:26:50 +1300

BSA win!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10769487

Just thinking

Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:34:55 +1300

The clerical call comes from structural engineers assessments. I have no info this extends to geotech, but with residential apartments noted N/A nonresidential I have my doubts.

Hebe

Wed, 02 Nov 2011 11:36:17 +1300

Essentially clerical classifications from files, & not based on engineering assesments. This has caused ripples in engineering circles.
Why do you say that? I live near the Heathcote River and geotechs have sunk holes all around the area and seem to monitor them regularly.

When my partner asked the geotechs what…

Just thinking

Wed, 02 Nov 2011 10:40:33 +1300

Thanks Hebe, that helps a lot.

I note it has those CERA signatures.

The residential apartments on cnr of Peterborough St & Park Tce is N/A Urban Nonresidential. It seems all Heritage buildings are Blue or lower.

It may follow soil types, but I suspect it follows years areas were developmented…

Hebe

Wed, 02 Nov 2011 09:13:12 +1300

In fact you are still green, now with a fetching yellow tint . We're that shade too but I take it that each site will within those broad zones be different.

This story provides an easy link to the maps and stuff:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/5870986/New-green-zoners-face-tougher-standards

Just thinking

Tue, 01 Nov 2011 19:49:31 +1300

I was Green & now find I am Yellow.

Anyone know a map that shows this?

Specifically where is the grey & what variation is likely to this colour coding?

krustacean

Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:15:58 +1300

Just had an email from AMI – we won't repair your relocated house because we choose to give you the equivalent cost of repair....so I cannot relocate my redzone 'repairable' house to a new section as AMI have now confirmed they won't repair it.
They'll give me the $$ from…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:07:12 +1300

We are entitled to know the truth of what has occurred …
Lianne Dalziel* makes some very good points in this Opinion piece in today’s Press
What on earth is going on?
As a former minister I know exactly why a government chooses to release a report on a…

krustacean

Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:31:54 +1300

Off subject somewhat...
So my house is redzone and 'repairable'.....so I asked the question can I relocate it to one of the many greenzone sections popping up in Christchurch ? (I'd pay for the relocation, good idea I thought). AMI's response? 'Your house insurance policy with AMI would cease' and…

Just thinking

Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:09:48 +1300

Campbell didn't do too bad here.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Behind-the-decision-to-demolish-Christchurch-cathedral/tabid/367/articleID/231276/Default.aspx

Steve Barnes

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 23:45:34 +1300

O squee! He has a wee RWCup on his lapel!Isnt that adorable? Eh?

Reminds me of George Bush with his little American flag. Next we will be hearing that Goff doesn't have a lapel badge because he hates the All Blacks.
I noticed that no ties were worn by the…

Islander

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 21:58:50 +1300

That fat guy to the left? Yeaaah-

O squee! He has a wee RWCup on his lapel!
Isnt that adorable? Eh?

Joe Wylie

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 20:24:01 +1300

As for security for Key?
At yesterday's mall opening, Protecting JK from the big guy?

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:16:44 +1300

just yuk is my feeling about the treatment of small cardigan. I am trying to not be too materialistic so the mall thing? meh.
My Dad wanted to pop down there to study the container thing. Might be why I haven’t seen him.
As for security for Key? [[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10762704|True to form…

Ross Mason

Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:52:31 +1300

There is no such thing as a harmless cardigan. All harmless cardigans are Nats voters. Dangerous.

Joe Wylie

Sat, 29 Oct 2011 17:11:25 +1300

Garden City:
At today's containerville city mall opening a harmless cardigan climbed onto the gravel of a raised garden bed to catch a glimpse of John Key. A large policeman promptly hauled him down and admonished him with "Would you do that on your own garden at home?" The poor…

Just thinking

Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:58:58 +1300

Conflating these two stories amused me, noone else got the joke.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/5875019/Catholics-females-get-fair-crack-at-throne
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/5873594/Cathedral-rebuild-could-cost-50m

To be a City in NZ you need a Cathedral and or 20K people.

The City as we know it has no people and now loses its Cathedral at its heart. And so how is Christchurch still…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 28 Oct 2011 15:15:38 +1300

Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee and Cera chief executive Roger Sutton will deliver an update at 2.15pm. (28 Oct)
Details released online via CERA's Land Check website.
True to form, the site crashed in the first few minutes and is still down.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:00:42 +1300

Oranges and Lemons...
Cathedral’s fate to be announced this morning.
I love a good church fete...
;- )

Orange Zone update...
Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee and Cera chief executive Roger Sutton will deliver an update at 2.15pm. (28 Oct)

Sacha

Fri, 28 Oct 2011 10:52:57 +1300

Cathedral's fate to be announced this morning.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 28 Oct 2011 09:28:43 +1300

Cells that fire together, wire together...
and the real Hop Yip Chong (spelling?)
Hop Yick Cheong and Co... and Gordon Tait's bookshop when it was up the alley beside The Zetland, and a Ringo's Book Exchange on every suburban corner... I can still smell the approach to Mary Grays... and…

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:26:48 +1300

How does an income-less person like me help?
Indeed, what can I help with?

I can only deal with memories – going back to 1952-
and my memories are familial & particular-

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:25:52 +1300

look again. it's metal. the kind you could wrap around some structures to keep them together.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:33:56 +1300

Investors rather than owner-occupiers.

Throwing more non-renewable petrol on the FIRE that's burning down the productive sector.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:05:19 +1300

Hebe:
I regret that I never pushed along my children to go up the Anglican Cathedral spire; there was always "another day" because it had "always" been there for me.
I guess that's what familiarity does. Although I've got ancestors here from since the early 1850s I grew up in…

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:04:01 +1300

My brutalist (and wealthy) former father-in-law summed up the philosophy of the concrete-builders when he explained why he was so enthusiastic about the buildings in Paris: "Built of stone. There's no bits that'll bloody rot off."

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:56:28 +1300

Not wrong-

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:47:54 +1300

weaving some distinctive Maori design into the structural lattice.

We dont need that: we need is what the olds did – small, congruent with land, a slight burden on Papatua-nuku -why do we need fucking concrete? It has failed-

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:47:14 +1300

Investors rather than owner-occupiers.

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:46:23 +1300

One hope I have is that Christchurch might just begin to reflect the pre-Pakeha 800 years or so years of settlement in some small ways. I'm not holding my breath though. While we're at it, we could call some of these new subdivisions by names that reflect the Maori heritage…

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:41:24 +1300

So – we can do wood & wooden & enhanced wooden – we have the knowledge and the abilities-

why are we enslaved by concrete?

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:28:14 +1300

Visible strengtening is a must, for trust and my own asthetic appeal. A Punk-Gothic look as we engineer NZ-Gothic as it never was in England

Imagine weaving some distinctive Maori design into the structural lattice.

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:01:50 +1300

Respect Joe, but I beg to differ.

The Arts Centre visable 1980s strengthening worked. The 2000s super fancy and expensive strengthening worked.
The parts put off and not yet worked on had some failure.

Not one building in the world is built to with stand what we went through, a…

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:43:25 +1300

O fuck, you’ve nearly made me cry Hebe-

I could only afford Vassars when I got – not a paper-run, but a collecting run for paper monies (courtsey my mother’s second husband, whom all her children hated.)
We were all so very proud of her when she divorced him when…

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:34:21 +1300

Vassars were, for some reason, For Grown-Ups. Pink mice with pinched ears and angelica tails and cinnamon bars and acid drops were Mary Gray for me.

Chancery Lane with that coffee shop; speaking of which the Albatross, the Victorian, the Mousetrap building in Oxford Terrace and the place in High…

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:26:45 +1300

It’s not those big landmarks that are the most important to me

Chancery Lane.
The Whitcomb&Tombs mall ( anyone remember Mary Gray's?)(And, peppermint cakes? Vassars?)

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:14:50 +1300

I regret that I never pushed along my children to go up the Anglican Cathedral spire; there was always "another day" because it had "always" been there for me. I loved tthe inside of that church though, it was just beautiful and worn in and kind of Arts and Crafts-y.…

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:04:08 +1300

I first climbed that stone spiral as an 18yr old law student – it, and the more quadral one in Larnach's Castle made indelible impressions...

I knew 'my' Chchch had died a long time ago -but, stupidly I'd thought stone buildings = lasting forever.

Forgetting that my first ancestors here…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:43:43 +1300

I really really miss the natural assets like the Port Hills walks . . .
You’ve reminded me of the words of Harry Ell, onetime Postmaster-General, muscular christian and the driving force behind the summit road and it’s romantic constructions. His idea was to open the Port Hills to inspire…

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:18:27 +1300

Good point that about human construction; I really really miss the natural assets like the Port Hills walks and the clean wild beaches like Southshore. Now they are stinking wild beaches.

Islander

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:38:21 +1300

That your work Joe? Great but sad.

It is extremely effective, whosoever's work it is-

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:27:44 +1300

That your work Joe? Great but sad.

linger

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:26:31 +1300

(Yeah. That particular "word on the wire" is perhaps being spit-roasted.)

Joe Wylie

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:05:27 +1300

I notice around the city that we still have the trees and big sky, and they go a long way to keeping the “feel” of the place . . .
I think we kind of knew back in February that most of the iconic human-made stuff was gone forever. The…

Hebe

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:10:05 +1300

Antony Gough, who owns most of the Strip in this morning's Press: The rebuild would be expensive, with the sandy riverside land requiring 16 metre-deep pile foundations for even a one-storey building, he said.

Implying that a good slice of the central city will have the same building constraints and…

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:44:01 +1300

Yeah, I still don't see any evidence of a linkage that makes sense.

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:38:02 +1300

Chinese invest in NZ infrastructure

English courts $6 billion in Chinese investment

Ngai Tahu partners with Agria in PGG Wrightson

time for Chinese investment

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:28:42 +1300

Russell – your first paper has picked up this story.

http://www.starcanterbury.co.nz/news/cathedral-demolition-fear/1150822/

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:21:40 +1300

The word on the wire is that Christchurch Investment is the trade off for allowing massive Chinese Investment in NZ Dairy. Labour & National agree here as they do over the Kaiapoi development.

_Over and above_ would be paying out insurance, repair or replacement value when the building didn't need to…

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 01:38:57 +1300

Please explain the relationship between insured Chch buildings and Chinese dairy investors, because I can't see one.

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 01:37:08 +1300

over and above

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:38:29 +1300

Building for earth quakes is safer and more economic than gambling/insuring against them.

That has to be a real lesson, forget EQ insurance and strengthen buildings.

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:33:24 +1300

That's not the word around the cordon.

The word on the wire is Christchurch is a trade off for Chinese Dairy interests to "invest". This isn't about current buildings or owners or business and certainly not an international insurance payout over and above policy conditions.

It's a rock bottom sale…

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:25:35 +1300

To be fair, any government would have had to negotiate – Pavletich despite his daft advocacy of sprawl is right that the insurers are pivotal. One less wedded to 'daddy knows best' might have been more open about it. Practically, perhaps even shared state-funded geotech info with residents as well…

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:17:51 +1300

What do you reckon Brownlee, English, Joyce, Key et al were negotiating for months about with the international and local insurance industry? Trade-offs were made. Responsibilities and irresponsibilities were agreed.

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:09:18 +1300

pray tell?

Sacha

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:03:39 +1300

why pay a cent?

Deals were done.

Just thinking

Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:01:09 +1300

And the influx of money to come into the city over the next 20 years from the foreign reinsurers' bank accounts
I hope so, but I fear CERA can order demolition, but not Insurers payouts.

A Great many buildings were either needlessly demolished or demolished to gain access to demolish…

Sacha

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:45:42 +1300

Charitably, they're merely incompetent.

Hebe

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:28:29 +1300

Yes. Groan. But for my own sanity I try to keep looking for the noble side of human nature in all this.

Sacha

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:10:05 +1300

we had a PM and Finance Minister who could speak the insurers' language and would put cutting a deal with them at the forefront

They did. The results speak volumes about whose interests they're working for.

Hebe

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:44:00 +1300

New Zealand will survive the Canterbury Quakes but will Christchurch? Christchurch will survive, but not in its old physical form and with its old power structure. Most of us are doing quite fine without the CBD now; we've adapted with varying sorts and degrees of inconvenience and loss along the…

Just thinking

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:18:02 +1300

Brownlee bowed to Cosgrove with the foolish Kaiapoi development inside the 50 db CIA zone.

It's really not a Blue, Red or even Green thing. It's our city dying at the hands of central Govt playing off the population (Auckland) vs 20/25% of the GDP or Christchurch.

New Zealand will…

merc

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:11:35 +1300

Awe. So many good points there, will they listen?

Sacha

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:03:50 +1300

Great Campbell Live story on architectural historian and TV presenter Kevin McCloud visiting Christchurch (6 min clip).

He expains beautifully at about 2m30 why a 7 storey limit makes sense. And towards the end at a meeting with residential redzoners, raises the idea of setting building standards street by street.…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:54:46 +1300

Thanks Hebe, wish you a happy back on track.

Hebe

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:56:29 +1300

Hebe:
No idea what you mean by that, any suggestion of malice on my part is ill-founded. All the best in your troublesDamn done it again; not getting at you. Just that straight after my post last night life got rocky and I'm not able to engage in incisive, debate-adding…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 12:27:46 +1300

Hebe:
No idea what you mean by that, any suggestion of malice on my part is ill-founded. All the best in your troubles.

Steve Barnes:
Funny how insurance is the ruin of so many small players, but cause for dancing in the streets for those above a certain critical mass.

Steve Barnes

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:48:14 +1300

Gobsmacked...
Kiwi in line for big payout on quake-damaged office tower
Christchurch's tallest office tower – the PricewaterhouseCoopers building – will be demolished and its landlord Kiwi Income Property Trust will get a big insurance payout to compensate it, pleasing analysts who follow the stock.

Hebe

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 11:23:51 +1300

Sorry; I'm incapable of rational debate after 12 hours of domestic disaster. I'll re-engage when you remove that hex...

merc

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 10:19:36 +1300

Hat tip Interest.co.nz http://www.interest.co.nz/property/56362/opinion-hugh-pavletich-sees-political-circus-running-rebuild-and-objects-taking-garde
Suggests that if insurers will not insure city rebuild, city will have to be built elsewhere, but there is nowhere nearby allowed for that density.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 26 Oct 2011 07:45:12 +1300

I don't agree with much of Brownlee's actions or beliefs, but I do not wish those eq-related posts on anyone.
With so many lives turning to custard for a whole heap of quake-related reasons, isn't that a bit like fretting about whether grass feels pain if it's walked on? Because…

Hebe

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:49:01 +1300

Joe, my comment was not intended to minimise anyone's suffering. I don't agree with much of Brownlee's actions or beliefs, but I do not wish those eq-related posts on anyone.

Joe Wylie

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:21:49 +1300

I heard that Brownlee keeps trying to resign as earthquake minister. Maybe they all want to resign; I would — what a bloody awful job to do.
There's been a huge amount of genuine courage and goodwill displayed since the quakes. You only need to have attended the meetings of…

Islander

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:15:35 +1300

What happens when you resign from a given post?
ONGOING RESPONSIBILITIES?

Hebe

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:56:13 +1300

I heard that Brownlee keeps trying to resign as earthquake minister. Maybe they all want to resign; I would — what a bloody awful job to do.

Islander

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:53:03 +1300

Roger Sutton has presented his resignation on three seperate occasions to Gerry and it has been refused each time.

I cannot envisage a proper contract that does not allow for resignation.
There is something really weird about this comment.

Joe Wylie

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:37:41 +1300

Roger Sutton has presented his resignation on three seperate occasions to Gerry and it has been refused each time.

Picture St George having to ride the Dragon, rather than slay it.
Interesting image. For some reason it evokes the lyrics of an old Korn Kobblers number:

__Some day they'll bury…

Just thinking

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:25:36 +1300

Substantiated statements have it that the Anglican Bishop wants Christ Church Cathedral Demolished.

I hear even Sir Miles Warren (who worked on its Earthquake strengthening) had a great deal of trouble getting an audience and was not greatly encouraged by the response he got about saving the building.

The Bishop…

Just thinking

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:05:06 +1300

Unsubstantiated rumour has been said – Roger Sutton has presented his resignation on three seperate occasions to Gerry and it has been refused each time.

Picture St George having to ride the Dragon, rather than slay it.

Joe Wylie

Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:37:21 +1300

We also have a meeting booked with Roger Sutton.
By way of a little background, you could try picturing yourself as living in darkest Southshore or Spencerville with a big chunk of your life on hold. After having had your hopes raised a couple of weeks back by loose talk…

Just thinking

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:27:34 +1300

Indeed, I was always told of the joy of running through the dump by Mum & banned from doing it by Dad.
For Bexley this os obviously a chance to rehabilitate the land nad stop pollutants from poisoning the estuary. Things like steel & copper.

Joe Wylie

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:13:34 +1300

Workmen scamble over the abandoned ruins pulling on wires & shoving them in their pockets . . .
An old Chch. tradition for those who grew up in Wainoni & Aranui in the era of the vast Aranui dump. What kid could resist the myriad recreational possibilities of that enchanted wasteland, while…

Just thinking

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:25:06 +1300

You're not kidding. Workmen scamble over the abandoned ruins pulling on wires & shoving them in their pockets, is a sight not far removed from picking up cans from the bin or ciggies from the gutter.

Joe – I think 20secs into that vid has a guy whose middle name we…

Carol Stewart

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:59:39 +1300

A roundup of the media coverage at the hearings, from the Science Media Centre.

Sacha

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:42:34 +1300

Thanks to machinery like this

Yeah, but does it crack safes?

Steve Barnes

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:32:31 +1300

A-Ward Hosts Demolition Christchurch Awards Nice of them eh?
A-Ward supplies demolition equipment so they thought having a bit of a beano for their mega spending customers would be a great idea, they even invited Brownlee to help with the pats on the back for all those hard…

merc

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:12:16 +1300

Everybody from the minister down...

Joe Wylie

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 13:01:56 +1300

Deals on Wheels Nov 11 mag page 22

Gerry Brownlee is the guest of honour at the Christchurch Demolition Awards in September.
Bloody hell JT, it was real. Not a demolition derby with Brownlee as the Humber Super Snipe, taking the hits* & chortling, but a red-carpet event where everyone got…

Sacha

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:16:58 +1300

Philip Matthews writes beautifully of disrupted memory and place. (h/t Jolisa – and happy birthday).

Most of us have not had reason to think about this before. Who determines what goes where? Should it be left to capital or the community?

...

In the past few months, some lines written…

Just thinking

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:00:17 +1300

Deals on Wheels Nov 11 mag page 22

Gerry Brownlee is the guest of honour at the Christchurch Demolition Awards in September.

Joe Wylie

Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:03:18 +1300

Spooky...
A bit squeaky to be spooky.
Perhaps 'Mr News's' voice will eventually break, & he'll be sufficiently emboldened to emulate his role model:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=qHkXFsK6UUg

Steve Barnes

Sat, 22 Oct 2011 19:16:28 +1300

Spooky...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CZD_THg1iM&feature=relmfu

Hebe

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:22:35 +1300

Unplugged one from the archives, September 5 last year, before the psych people got John Key's ear, when everyone was still speaking out loud rather than whispering in dark alleys as now:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4096823/Bigger-earthquake-predicted-to-come

And here's a good one:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/338428/Closer-links-between-scientists-and-Civil-Defence

And this from late last year http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/4200738/Scientists-can-t-rule-out-fault-below-Chch

A report on the…

Just thinking

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 14:27:12 +1300

I haven't seen Murray Horton since ... last Friday at the launch of "A thorn in their side".

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1110/S00168/international-launch-of-a-thorn-in-their-side.htm

Just thinking

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:42:32 +1300

You got a meeting with Roger!
We tried since it was CD and just got in a month or so back.

So far I think Canty have had at least 3 Dist Commanders and Acting Dist Commanders in the last 6 months.
Where is Dave Cliff? He is well respected…

Russell Brown

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:59:51 +1300

Anyway, just a heads-up that Jose Barbosa and I are traveling to Christchurch for the CEISMIC launch and will look to get a full show's worth of stories while we're there.

I've already found recent discussions here very useful — we're talking to Dean Kozanic from The Press about the…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:13:55 +1300

THE REAL CHRISTCHURCH ISSUES
PUBLIC MEETING
WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 2nd at 7.30pm
Knox Presbyterian Church Lounge
28 Bealey Avenue, Christchurch

What are the real issues facing the people of NZ
and Christchurch this election?
SPEAKERS:
Jeremy Agar, CAFCA Chairperson, on the Productivity Commission
Murray Horton, __CAFCA Organiser & Convenor of New Zealand…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:57:16 +1300

Understood ChrisW. Very apt, considering that the NZH is still happy to feed him the oxygen of publicity on a slow news day. If it's not the orange jacket it's the silly hat.

ChrisW

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:51:47 +1300

While I don't believe that your connecting Ford and Radley's call for greater openness on the discussion of seismic data with the Ken Ring fringe was intentionally snide, it's hardly justified by even a casual reading of their submission. Sorry, Joe – no connection of the Ken Ring fringe with…

Sacha

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:50:14 +1300

I'm a bit pressed for time right now

Likewise.

merc

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:44:36 +1300

Daniel Tobin that is a brilliant video inside the red zone. So many questions I want to ask.

Carol Stewart

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:33:36 +1300

Didn't GNS say that?
Well, no, not in the way the Herald are implying.
Have a look at the recordings of the hearings, Sacha. I'm sorry I'm a bit pressed for time right now to dig out the relevant session. I think it was on the afternoon of the 18th.…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:33:32 +1300

a gallimaufry up…
New Press video from inner city taken yesterday (20/10/2011).

Joe Wylie

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:33:16 +1300

I see Gerry Brownlee's current "geodata" and the general arse-covering as relating more to the other end of the system, the impacts of those earthquakes on buildings, infrastructure and lives.
Brownlee uses the term 'geodata' with the same vagueness he displayed when referring to estimates of potential mineral wealth in…

ChrisW

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:28:45 +1300

It's important that the hard questions continue to be asked, but a L'Aquila style beat up is not something to be encouraged.
Exactly what I had in mind too. But the L'Aquila story on risk communication and liability is complicated too – this current Scientific American blog helpful – http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/10/20/italian-seismologists-on-trial-for-failing-to-communicate-well/

merc

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:28:13 +1300

"The process we have is the process that was determined as being most appropriate."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5826034/Red-zone-challenge-proposal-scrapped

Hebe

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:24:03 +1300

The "why didn't they say so" discussion does not address the core reality of an under-resourced, under-funded poor relation of a government entity suddenly having to provide cutting-edge scientific advice to the government and provide very difficult PR messages to a panicked populace with what I guess to be near-zero…

Sacha

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:22:12 +1300

A very measured response, Sacha.

And thank you. Have learned a lot about decision support and it seems relevant here.

Sacha

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:19:38 +1300

the serious allegation that GNS knowingly withheld information because of 'social science advice'

Didn't GNS say that? Like Merc above, I'd welcome more detail.

Carol Stewart

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:03:44 +1300

A very measured response, Sacha.
The Herald editorial seems pretty unfair to me. They are making the serious allegation that GNS knowingly withheld information because of 'social science advice'. This is not supported by the video records of the hearings – GNS make it clear that they had a policy…

merc

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:57:03 +1300

Missed this prediction yesterday, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/christchurch/news/article.cfm?l_id=187&objectid=10759977
Statistical modelling as of last month presented by GNS Science showed that there was roughly a 14 per cent chance of another quake in the range of magnitude 6 over the following year.
It is the quakes over magnitude 6, such as that in February, have…

Robert Urquhart

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:44:45 +1300

Tangent, since this seems to be the current earthquake/christchurch thread – I had the opportunity to look around inside one of our earthquake-threatened historic places this past weekend and thought people here might be interested in the photos (and the possibility of another group visit at a later date)

[[http://marsden-online.livejournal.com/801611.html|Antonio…

merc

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:28:53 +1300

It's taken Herald a wee while to announce this, http://www.interest.co.nz/bonds/56296/governments-debt-manager-raises-nz900-mln-bond-auction-ahead-possible-borrowing-programm
Linked to topic due to the borrowing announced as being in part for Christchurch.

Sacha

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:24:57 +1300

Or was written by a different anonymous journo. :)

Russell Brown

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:22:52 +1300

You could argue that the Herald has been supporting that style from this government throughout the last few years (notably the ECan takeover), which contrasts with this editorial’s stand in favour of people making decisions for themselves.

That's because the editorial is largely about justifying the the angle of the…

Russell Brown

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:19:30 +1300

I’d hazard a suggestion that wouldn’t be all that far off the Ken Ring model of earthquake risk communication.

I did wonder.

Sacha

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:16:07 +1300

Informed decisions about risk require both likelihood and impact to be understood, as well as what the decision-maker regards as the most important general factors (or 'values') in guiding their own decisions.

It takes much more effort to communicate those in a way that the public can engage with, rather…

merc

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:55:50 +1300

And aftershock risk compounded by already compromised buildings (from the previous shocks)?

Sacha

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:44:39 +1300

Good interview with GNS’s Kelvin Berryman on RNZ ‘Checkpoint’ yesterday

Ta for the heads-up. Here it is (5 mins, listening options).

The story says GNS sought government funds to map unknown faultlines but did not even receive a response (WTF?).

Berryman says that the extra information would not have helped…

ChrisW

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:24:28 +1300

The people of Christchurch were, therefore, told that there could be a sizeable aftershock, but not the areas where it was most likely to occur. Having emerged unscathed from the December 26 jolt in terms of lives lost, they were unaware that the worst-case scenario of the GNS provided no…

ChrisW

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:05:03 +1300

I'm referring essentially to assessments of the earthquake-generating end of the system (the current subject of the Commission hearings and commentary) where my "trust" expresses a goodly amount of confidence that the surprises and severity and huge human and financial cost of these earthquakes will make a major difference nationally…

merc

Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:30:18 +1300

Herald editorial today,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/christchurch-earthquake/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502981&objectid=10760584
These questions need to be asked, who are these social scientists (sic) who predicted panic, and why were they the arbiter of the fate of so many?

Joe Wylie

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 23:54:13 +1300

I trust there will be very strong recommendations for increased resourcing for a major upgrade in earthquake risk and hazard assessments throughout NZ, and they will be well received and accepted by Government at all levels . . .
As these kinds of recommendations haven't been welcomed by Government in…

Hebe

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 19:37:19 +1300

Me too.

Just thinking

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:07:57 +1300

I feel sick.

ChrisW

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 17:59:34 +1300

Late to this, and wonder whether rather too much is being expected of earthquake prediction here – after the event of course the probability it will occur is 1, but predicting the future is so much harder.

Say it’s a 50/50 that the largest aftershock will be as big as…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:32:45 +1300

Three ring CERC...
CERC was set up by the government in the early days after 4 September and its functions include coordinating the Government and local body recovery effort. It is also supposed to be the chief means of communication between the three councils and the Government.
It consists of…

merc

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:25:05 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/5638243/City-Mall-to-open-without-bars
The rush to recreate the CBD seems a little premature, wonder if GNS is holding any information regarding any further probable tremors? I wonder. Ah,
At the inquiry on Tuesday, Ford had asked GNS Science natural hazards director Terry Webb if he thought the agency had provided ECan with…

Hebe

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:11:11 +1300

You're getting there too.. I noticed that Kevin Furlong, a visiting US earthquakes academic who happened to be stationed at Canty Uni for the big shakes, was often loose-lipped compared to the 'official' versions from GNS etc. When the media thought to ask he, unconstrained by funding threats and Peter…

merc

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:55:12 +1300

I was reminded of a certain person answering questions at the Erebus Commission of Inquiry (I sat in on two very poignant sessions), the same use of language later to be famously described as an...orchestrated litany of...

Sacha

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:47:28 +1300

labelled coverage of his comments in the New Zealand Herald newspaper "disappointing"

Did they say anything inaccurate? Or merely inconvenient.

Sacha

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:46:33 +1300

GNS had not withheld the information but did not publicise it

Uh huh.

merc

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:39:07 +1300

Under scrutiny yesterday, Berryman admitted GNS Science was aware of the possibility of a more devastating tremor striking near central Christchurch after the magnitude-7.1 shake on September 4, 2010.

However, in the first few weeks after the September quake the possibility of more devastating aftershock was intentionally not discussed. It…

Hebe

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:31:35 +1300

We did. But post Boxing Day the worsened cracks on many city buildings (I particularly noted the Press building) were passed as safe by council engineers.

I also tracked the pattern of aftershocks on quake.crowe from October on and became convinced, with my sketchy knowledge of geology and faultlines, that…

Sacha

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:14:40 +1300

Am I right in thinking that one 1990s politician who was centrally involved in the 'deregulation' of both building and maritime standards (and sat on his hands in telecommunications) was Pakuranga's finest, Maurice Williamson? He must be dead proud of his handiwork.

How could the opposition not make hay from…

Sacha

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:10:48 +1300

Already working – and who knows what the Rena one might reveal..

Sacha

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:10:02 +1300

I may be slightly hyperbolic here

I fear not.

merc

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:02:50 +1300

Well perhaps the Commission will shed some light on events.

Christopher Dempsey

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 11:55:55 +1300

fell through the cracks of multiple agencies with ill-defined responsibilities.

It’s not so much as falling through the cracks as a situation of no-one in any agency being brave enough to say N and O together without fearing the wrath of developers taking them to court for denying developers the…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:06:06 +1300

I don’t think it’s at all alarmist to say that the 181 who perished in the CTV building would probably be with us today if the OPUS report had been heeded.

For the future,it is also worth remembering from the Herald article further up that Rolleston is up for the…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 09:04:05 +1300

You have to wonder how many people would have made an informed decision to avoid the central city after September if told of the actual risk.
Without an accurate time frame I guess it's a bit academic.
For me the most significant thing about the largely ignored report commissioned by…

merc

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:48:43 +1300

Wu wei.

Sacha

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:41:47 +1300

If the true facts were shared with emergency management authorities as we are told, what action did they take?

Sacha

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:39:49 +1300

You have to wonder how many people would have made an informed decision to avoid the central city after September if told of the actual risk.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:36:37 +1300

The Press’s Paul Gorman reports on Rachel Ford and Ed Radley’s appearance at the Royal Commish:
"New Zealand scientists well knew of Canterbury’s vulnerability and told Government long ago. For years, critical modelling tasks the region required for proper preparation fell through the cracks of multiple agencies with ill-defined responsibilities."

Hebe

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:25:09 +1300

The reports quoted pre-date the removal of Ecan . Islander is right in that the post-earthquake butt-covering is world-class when it comes to the various councils.

Islander

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:43:41 +1300

In a word,

yes.

Grubby little paws were quite frantically trying to block off aisles of blame it seems-

with post-event legislation, yet-

Kumara Republic

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:09:09 +1300

A monumental scandal if true.

As in post-Katrina monumental? All the more so if the ECan sacking was a contributing factor.

merc

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:16:45 +1300

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10760238
Speechless.

Hebe

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:11:07 +1300

Joel Cayford’s revelatory posting from last July.
I'm lost for every word except the short pithy ones. Cayford appears to say neither Ecan nor CCC did a proper hazard management plan, except to shovel responsibility on to the other council. A monumental scandal if true.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 19:33:44 +1300

. . . I'd be interested to read comments from someone who can sort the wheat from the chaff.
Amen to that. Many thanks Hebe.
They appear to refer to the same largely ignored risk assessment report prepared by OPUS Consultants for ECAN, mentioned in Joel Cayford's revelatory posting from…

Stephen Judd

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 18:37:28 +1300

Wow. That is damning stuff if true. I don't have the background to assess it properly either, mind.

Hebe

Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:39:33 +1300

At the risk of becoming a single-issue poster(ior), I have been having a nose around the Royal Commission into the Earthquakes website, just because I'd like to know what the learned are saying without the filter of a journalist and his/her deadlines and word limits. http://canterbury.royalcommission.govt.nz/
The submissions are available…

Just thinking

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 17:52:22 +1300

In my Westside Story, I've just had EQC through and they put my mind to rest and just a floor board here, a tile there and some plaster & paint.
And I do know how lucky I am, mate. I do know how lucky I am.

Just thinking

Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:15:50 +1300

We have a couple of Zombies in the office again.
They're here in body, but shit scared, their nerves have had it.
Resignations half written, but not yet able to leave.

Rob Stowell

Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:52:20 +1300

I wonder how that 5,5 we had at 8.34pm
went down at the fanzone in Hagley Park ? Folks were strangely calm, reacted but settled down to the game almost instantly. The big screens did wobble, rather.

Sacha

Sun, 09 Oct 2011 21:38:09 +1300

is it a Full Moon out there

just an astrologer's pallid arse

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 09 Oct 2011 21:32:23 +1300

I wonder how that 5,5 we had at 8.34pm
went down at the fanzone in Hagley Park ?
– I almost left the lounge!
Hmmm – is it a Full Moon out there....

Good(ish) turn out at the Bexley area rally today
(No National MPs or Bob Parker, as usual)…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 13:17:26 +1300

A great article by the marvellously well-informed Janine Starks. Like her earlier piece on red zone issues, it's a refreshing change from the usual mealy-mouthed timidity.

A pity that the Press has attempted to headline it as bait for the usual idiot's auction of online comments.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:57:10 +1300

Red Zone Moaners, are they reasonable from the Press – hopefully they aren't implying that the lovely couple and their children pictured are in any way moaners, – explainer, questioners and solution seekers, yes...

Islander

Mon, 03 Oct 2011 21:19:05 +1300

Too modest – was/is much better-
(one of my South family is collecting all of it…)

Joe Wylie

Mon, 03 Oct 2011 21:16:25 +1300

Not that I think te Herald is a great information source but it is common to the country and available for a broken down city
As part of the group that owns the widely-circulated Christchurch Star giveaway, they're only as parochial as they choose to be. For example, their online…

Just thinking

Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:11:51 +1300

Fair enough, the bile does build up on stuff from time to time. And search the CTV youtube page for the interview where they say "Have your say" was all about you telling us what we want ... er no I mean..."
Face to face in the people I meet…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 02 Oct 2011 10:10:25 +1300

have had a gutsful of being so impugned…and are"demanding realistic answers.”

I have no patience for reading all the “spin” too when I believe, (from the outside looking in) that it is insulting to the intelligence of Cantabrians, no matter how polite you all are. A quick glance at the…

Islander

Sat, 01 Oct 2011 22:29:49 +1300

That is precisely what I am hearing from whanau in the eastern suburbs.
People who expressed anything but the “official” version (“We’re all in this together, and anyone who runs away or says different, is letting the side down”)
have had a gutsful of being so impugned…and are"demanding realistic answers."

Joe Wylie

Sat, 01 Oct 2011 22:22:47 +1300

Do you think this is fair?
If you mean is it a fair overview of the post-quakes situation, I believe that it's a pretty good snapshot of how things were at the time the article was published (September 20}.

I don't get to read the letters to the Press, but…

Just thinking

Sat, 01 Oct 2011 19:54:57 +1300

Do you think this is fair?
We all have whanau in the east who have been without a toilet for over a year.
I've not come across this divide or any resentment to those who are leaving.

Joe Wylie

Fri, 30 Sept 2011 09:52:59 +1300

Bitter in-fighting has replaced the initial shock and grief. Cantabrian has turned on Cantabrian: A distanced perspective, unconstrained by the crippling timidity that blights our local media, from Peter Bills in South Africa's Cape Argus.

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 29 Sept 2011 09:08:48 +1300

I hear there’s (a) deal in the wings over the BoR.
The Chchch we now live in is an "RSA about face" place....

Just thinking

Thu, 29 Sept 2011 08:22:42 +1300

I hear there's deal deal in the wings over the BoR.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 29 Sept 2011 01:01:09 +1300

We will never take pity on our beautiful garden city!

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 28 Sept 2011 09:27:20 +1300

Keeping up with the Jones (or Joneses)*
Sir Bob weighs in on the future of the Chch CBD
and I suspect he has some good points, unpalatable perhaps,
but close to a truth as things stand (or don't, as the case may be)...

* I'll leave the pedantry to the…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 27 Sept 2011 20:20:53 +1300

Give them the mandate and I believe they would be happy help you. It’s a team, remember. :)

Just thinking

Tue, 27 Sept 2011 18:16:07 +1300

Brendon Burns didn't do too bad here.
I fear his tough outer shell may crack and expose a chewy marange centre.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/5688773/Historic-Places-Trust-gutless-with-Cera

chris

Tue, 27 Sept 2011 03:57:03 +1300

Classy

Kumara Republic

Tue, 27 Sept 2011 01:32:21 +1300

You’ve all been waiting for it, so here it is…