Public Address | Cafe | Southerly: For Those in Need of Sleep https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24293#post24293 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24293#post24293 Hello again David,

I'd have to agree that economics has really only got interesting in the last 10 years or so. I'm glad I got to it a bit later via complexity theory and Kevin Kelly.

Perhaps now it is much easier to crunch some of those numbers ? and…

]]> Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:45:09 +1200 David Haywood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24095#post24095 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24095#post24095 Jason:

Many thanks for posting your summary of the paper (much better than my attempt), and the other nice summary by Paul Chefurka.

It's vaguely heartening to know that at least three other people in the world (you, David Strahan, and Paul Chefurka) also think this paper is a big…

]]> Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:40:13 +1200 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24076#post24076 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24076#post24076 Also just noticed that there is summary of sort on the significance of Solow / Kummel & Ayres at

Oil Depletion and Economic Instability

which also refers to the Last Oil Shock book by David Strahan where I came across the theory.

]]> Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:57:34 +1200 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24075#post24075 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=24075#post24075 Hi David,

Thanks for mentioning that Ayres paper. I have been thinking about how to reflect on energy policy and you just drop a link in there as a throw away line almost.

K J Aldous wrote:

Since the first sentence of the paper is palpable nonsense, can any encouragement…

]]> Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:48:06 +1200 Neil Morrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23502#post23502 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23502#post23502 Dr Creon sounds like a character from one of Pynchon's novels. I haven't read Mason & Dixon but am currently reading Vineland which is very funny, reminds me of the Coen brothers.

Pynchon and thermodynamics – so appropriate.

But the application of thermodynamic concepts, which concern very simple things such as…

]]> Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:06:02 +1200 K J Aldous https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23492#post23492 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23492#post23492 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:37:16 +1200 David Haywood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23473#post23473 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23473#post23473 K J Aldous wrote:

... can any encouragement be offered for my persevering with the rest of it?

Er... admittedly they didn't put that very well. What they mean is that they test their mathematical model with various possible explanations for the Solow Residual.

I guess I've always been amazed…

]]> Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:00:25 +1200 K J Aldous https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23470#post23470 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23470#post23470 Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:43:09 +1200 Jackie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23414#post23414 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23414#post23414 What an emotional rollercoaster this thread is. To wit:

Laughing........

These days, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

People say that, and yet, have you tried? Because it does. In my experience, eight year olds enjoy both the testing process, and the horrified look on Grandma's face.

Crying...........

Apart from…

]]> Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:04:27 +1200 InternationalObserver https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23370#post23370 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23370#post23370

I get my Agamemnon ( done in interestingly shaped old bottles) from an ageing hippy on the Coromandel who has built his own Memnon press from old tractor parts.

Er, I think some of you have misunderstood what Agamemnon is.

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:48:41 +1200 Tony Kennedy https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23364#post23364 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23364#post23364 special psychic powers – being irish helps

its all greek to me

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:39:52 +1200 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23362#post23362 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23362#post23362

Is anyone else even slightly interested in this?

Yes, but I feel responsible for enough damage to this thread already. Too much homerphobia for my liking.

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:31:29 +1200 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23357#post23357 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23357#post23357

When you stop and realise that you've suddenly been posessed by one or more of your parents, and they're talking to your kids

And when you realise your kids are channelling your childhood self. ("But why do I have to get dressed? Are we going somewhere?) A good tipper for…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:40:19 +1200 Andrew Stevenson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23356#post23356 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23356#post23356 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:38:48 +1200 Jeremy Andrew https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23354#post23354 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23354#post23354 Then there's the weirdness which becomes a normal part of life with you barely noticing it.
The first time your wife calls you Dad, while the kid isn't in the room.
When you sit down & realise you can't actually remember what you used to do to fill in all that…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:31:30 +1200 Jeremy Andrew https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23353#post23353 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23353#post23353

It passes. It all passes.

I certainly hope it does!

I agree – everything that goes into the sprog passes through. Hence your inpromptu redecorating spree.

Babies have their moments, but you get much more value from other people's babies – that way you still get sleep and you can…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:23:58 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23351#post23351 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23351#post23351

Oram is not as widely publicised, sadly, as those members of New Zealand's business community who believe anything that inhibits a pollution rich, poor-worker race to the bottom is a DISASTER FOR THE COUNTRY! AND I"LL PACK MY TOYS AND GO TO CHINA!

Heh heh!
Tell 'em not to bother…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:05:50 +1200 rodgerd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23347#post23347 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23347#post23347 It seems to me that this has profound implications for our economy, i.e. that we can achieve significant economic growth by investing in technology that has a higher exergy conversion efficiency — something that there is massive scope for in this country. It also raises the question as to whether… ]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:39:12 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23344#post23344 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23344#post23344 On the Solow Residual thing, one thing that maybe an economist could explain to me is why they always look at productivity growth as:

__Universal Widgets produced 100 trunnion brackets an hour at a value of $1000 using 10 workers. After installing an Acme 2000 flange twiddler at a cost…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:29:07 +1200 Lyndon Hood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23342#post23342 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23342#post23342 Don't believe anyone who says to keep your Antigone in the dark. I tried that and the poor thing expired before I'd finished shutting the door.

I tried for years to grow Medeas at home but they don't produce viable offspring.

I like to follow my Agamemnon with sliced Cassandra.

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:17:58 +1200 Andrew Paul Wood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23337#post23337 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23337#post23337 Die Hard, "Ah, the benefits of a classical education." ]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:09:30 +1200 David Haywood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23336#post23336 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23336#post23336 Deborah wrote:

It passes. It all passes.

I certainly hope it does! All ages may be good ages, but I am not so keen on the age of screaming and projectile-defecation. Although, it has to be said, what a shame we can't compare your child's projectile-vomiting with Bob-the-baby's projectile-defecation. During…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:09:16 +1200 Lee Wilkinson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23333#post23333 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23333#post23333 While we are at it....
Oedipus, call your mother!

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:01:52 +1200 Andrew Paul Wood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23332#post23332 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23332#post23332 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:01:38 +1200 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23331#post23331 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23331#post23331

Otherwise your Oedipus will be terrible, so bad that the very smell will cause passing car drivers' feet to swell and spasm on the accelerator and crash their vehicle, leading to the well known problem of Oedipus wrecks.

Oh look. Now you're just being silly.

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:01:13 +1200 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23327#post23327 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23327#post23327 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:50:55 +1200 Andrew Paul Wood https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23326#post23326 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23326#post23326 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:40:29 +1200 Evan Yates https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23319#post23319 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23319#post23319

Yes, but where can you find good Antigone at this time of year in Hamilton, the Farmers' Market doesn't seem to have any.

The best organic Antigone is to be found in the warmer climates of the Far North. However the recent floods in Kerikeri seem to have wiped out…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:02:04 +1200 rodgerd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23309#post23309 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23309#post23309

Every age is a good age. Really. And the older they get, the quicker those ages pass. Unfortunately that's something you can only appreciate after it has happened.

The best bit of prenting advice we got – from numerous sources – that turned out to be completely correct was to…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:27:09 +1200 Jeremy Andrew https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23304#post23304 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23304#post23304 Yes, but where can you find good Antigone at this time of year in Hamilton, the Farmers' Market doesn't seem to have any.
I tried growing my own, but the family wouldn't eat it once they'd given it a name.

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:49:30 +1200 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23302#post23302 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23302#post23302 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:48:32 +1200 Tony Kennedy https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23301#post23301 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23301#post23301 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:47:35 +1200 Evan Yates https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23298#post23298 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23298#post23298

Fancy not knowing your Antigone from your Agamemnon

How gauche!!

Every one knows that Antigone should only be served before luncheon (preferably on thin slices of toast). On the other hand, Agamemnon is crying out to be drizzled on a nice thick steak to bring out the flavour.

I get…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:34:48 +1200 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23297#post23297 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23297#post23297

These days, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

People say that, and yet, have you tried? Because it does. In my experience, eight year olds enjoy both the testing process, and the horrified look on Grandma's face.

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:25:38 +1200 Deborah https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23296#post23296 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23296#post23296

that should of course read Antigone, not Agamemnon, duh.

Lucky you corrected that yourself, Don. Otherwise the rest of us would have been sitting around saying, "Gosh. That Don Christie can't be very well educated. Fancy not knowing your Antigone from your Agamemnon." ;-)

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:03:55 +1200 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23292#post23292 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23292#post23292 Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:18:39 +1200 Don Christie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23291#post23291 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23291#post23291

"So it goes."

It also crossed my mind that the chorus of Agamemnon might have said something similar. Sleepy end of week connections.

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:13:10 +1200 Andrew Stevenson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23290#post23290 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23290#post23290 Its a mouse

A thing you need to be careful of, but no one tells you, is to consider what toys to supply your child with. Sure, they look cute with the four foot mouse/rabbit/thing and other hangers on.
But down the track when they're a blubbering writhing mess screaming…

]]> Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:33:11 +1200 JP Hansen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23279#post23279 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23279#post23279 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:43:22 +1200 JP Hansen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23278#post23278 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23278#post23278 First child, huh? By the 3rd pregnancy generally the odd piece of Brie can be consumed guilt free. It's all pasteurised in NZ anyway...

And it's a mouse. A rabbit would have teeth. And long ears. And be greyer. And perhaps have longer hind legs.

]]> Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:37:42 +1200 Robyn Gallagher https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23277#post23277 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23277#post23277 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:10:07 +1200 Stephen Judd https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23276#post23276 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23276#post23276 However, at this stage we can't vouch for what happens after the age of 9 (years, that is).

Perhaps I'm just an old soppy, but I was always bewildered by people who would enquire how old my daughter was, be told, and then reply "x is such a good age,…

]]> Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:06:56 +1200 David Hamilton https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23275#post23275 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23275#post23275

"Well," replied Creon, "I seem to be stuck with Thomas Pynchon and Mason & Dixon." He thought for a moment, and then added: "So it goes."

This made me laugh out loud – something the internet almost never achieves. Brilliant.

]]> Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:02:25 +1200 Deborah https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23272#post23272 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23272#post23272

now that my life has descended into a nightmare of sleep-deprivation, endless screaming, projectile-defecation, and other practices normally prohibited by the Geneva convention.

Yes, parenthood is quite gruelling.

We have been there. All of it. But we had projectile vomiting too. Right across the kitchen – very impressive.

It passes.…

]]> Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:32:31 +1200 Judi Lapsley Miller https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23271#post23271 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23271#post23271 Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:57:19 +1200 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23270#post23270 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/southerly-for-those-in-need-of-sleep/?p=23270#post23270 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:57:19 +1200