"Ok let me get this straight boss – when I goes home we have to pump the water out of the bedroom to go to sleep – and you want me to dig a hole in the ground and go down it?????"

re Dutch land borders

Heh…

Ha! This is a question that can only resolved by military means, Dr Janssen! I propose that our fleets meet at Cook Strait. Don't forget to bring your cutlass, you son of a Dutchman.

There are lower-tech ways of doing this...

... the Dutch Navy really was the largest and most powerful in the world until the late 1700s...

Ha! This is a question that can only resolved by military means, Dr Janssen! I propose that our fleets meet at Cook Strait. Don't forget to bring your cutlass,…

But a bit of googling shows that not to be the case. It's the fact that 50% of The Netherlands…

I think you're right David this is a really interesting period for energy use. All the sailing nations were working tremendously hard to develop energy efficient transport (boats) to explore and exploit the world. One of the reasons the Dutch were so succesful was because of their…

By the end of the 1600s, this navy had become the largest and most formidable in the world [15]; a state of affairs that would last (in the form of the Royal Navy) right up until the early years of the twentieth century…

Kyle I was being facetious with "discovery" I thought that was clear.

So when you say "discovery" you mean... colonisation? Something else? Because it would help the discussion of the past few days if you were clear about what your original post meant.

Some much awaited wiki wisdom – but still feel free to quote me.

A page that doesn't mention 'New Zealand' or 'discover/y' – I'm not sure how that advances your argument on the reasons for NZ's discovery.

And you still haven't provided an explanation as to how your theory that…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation

Transportation punished both major and petty crimes in Great Britain and Ireland from the 17th century until well into the 19th century. At the time it was seen as a more humane alternative to execution, which…

The proof will be in American Colonies rejection of transported prisoners (prior to revolution) & the subsequent actions of England as demonstrated by the time line. Your ball from here run with it if you wish.

So no references at all? That's what I thought.

I believe history is everyones concern,…

Kyle historical chats via wiki will always be a bit limited.

The time line works and there is proof – promise I'm not plucking this one.

Perhaps it would help if you referenced your claims – online or offline. Your claims aren't backed up by any historical scholarship that I…

*lodges cotton wool in cheek*

"Now maybe you can do me a favour"

The school I work at has entered and has made the final five of a competition to create and…

... social faux pas — sort of like using "gay" in one of it's three current meanings, with a member of the wrong generation!

Oh, you've done that too... glad I'm not the only one!

Certainly the Vikings had the technology, tho the square sails weren't ideal...…

Social/political pressures built up in the States & they were less inclinded to accept transported prisoners. Then as today prisoners don't matter to free men. So too Oz resisted prisoners once they got a generation or two on the ground.…

The Celts?

They don't burn very well. Too soggy.

We burn heaps better after marinating in whisky.

The need for the Great Southern Land started with "The revolutionary era began in 1763, when the military threat to the English colonies from France ended."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_revolution

Well that's a page that talks about the American Revolution, and doesn't mention the great southern land. The bit outside the quote you've…

Cook to Oz & NZ 1769/70
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_New_Zealand

Although not on wiki we did have 4 convicts and then another…

In fact the use of sails to tack against the wind may have originated rather closer to Alexandria, however.

Thanks for your comments, Rob. It seems that few inventions are as disputed as the development of the lift-type sails — everyone claims them! But from my research…

Australia & NZ were only "discovered" because England needed another dumping ground for its trash

I'm sorry Michael, that's nonsense. Depending on which theory of discovery you follow, the reasons alter, but none of them had to do with convicts.

Tasman sailed here under the orders of the United East India…

How can you talk of world exploration and not mention Admiral Zheng He

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He
OK 1421 has a bit of bollocks in it too. But these guys bathed and were cultured beyond beyond their bacteria, unlike the English.

Australia & NZ were only "discovered" because England needed…

(Iberia also is rich in those important Celts...)

The Celts?

They don't burn very well. Too soggy.

Surprisingly, however, a closer examination of this green and pleasant land reveals a number of plausible reasons why England (and later, Great Britain) had all the right ingredients to make such an outcome possible.

The Celts?