For anyone lost:
http://publicaddress.net/system/topic,2645,southerly-confessions-of-a-social-retard.sm?p=176163#post176163

Something that worries me about home-schooling is, what happens if you grow up without having to deal with lots of other kids all the time?

Historically, rather a lot of famous folk grew up without contacting other children on a regular basis. They read as being very serious and conscientious…

the peaceable appearance of any society is much more fragile and easily disrupted than you might think

24 hours and three hot meals does seem rather optimistic these days.

How you doin'?

roflnui

I should clarify however that I meant this particular crocodile.

Snap!

There's a big difference between 'being an annoying busybody' and 'OMG that kid/dog/older lady is going to die', though. So the examples you give are more on the 'mind your own damn business, bossy parents' end of the scale…

-yes. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse...

Danielle – you ever tried "Little Boys"?

Yes, yes, I know! Which is why I loved the product (they were the highlight of my Mother's 80th birthday) but decided endorsing them was…

I should clarify however that I meant this particular crocodile.

That is one very cool crocodile! It way more appetizing than the Groundhog day cakes we were given as kids, or chocolate covered, cat-turd shaped cookies served in a plastic tray of oats "kitty litter centrepieces" that have long been popular at…

the only times I've had stuff stolen at an airport was in Canada (twice)
*the only time my mother was ever sworn at in a public bar, ditto
*the only time I've been publically abused to my face in a racist manner

Canada is indeed a very racist country, but…

(pats Salty on the head, and releases it back into the wild...)

(The source is Roald Dahl's Book of Revolting Recipes.)

but the peaceable appearance of any society is much more fragile and easily disrupted than you might think.

Well, I guess, but it seemed to me that the veneer of civilisation was thicker in Canada than in most other places I've ever lived in. As an example I hardly ever…

When I lived in Canada it used to be a standard joke that an anarchist in Canada was someone who refused to use the postal code.

I know this is how it looks on the surface, but the peaceable appearance of any society is much more fragile and easily disrupted…

When I lived in Canada it used to be a standard joke that an anarchist in Canada was someone who refused to use the postal code.

HEY !!! It must be time for a Newfie joke.

But in the case I cited above, I was standing in a queue, and the woman in front me whacked her child on the wrist (as she did what kids will do, and tried to…

But no doubt not allowing you to jump ahead of them in the queue to leave the child in the car for a shorter time?

Oh no no NO, Kyle. You must *comment annoyingly*, but never actually do anything to *help*. Because that way lies anarchy and madness!

I have also overtly expressed parental guidance on the odd occasion, mostly involving the placing of children in life threatening situations.

This aspect interests me, because it's one of the situations where I find that even quite diffident people can express highly forthright opinions to total strangers. I see this…

Anarchy (literally) is just below the surface of any society, and Canada is no exception.

When I lived in Canada it used to be a standard joke that an anarchist in Canada was someone who refused to use the postal code.

Go back to your fancy talking-not-in-circles about things-that-aren't-ever-so-slightly-ludicrous then. See if I care.

Yes, Russell seems to miss the small pleasures and minutiae of these discussions, doesn't he?

Where were we... sixteen angels on the head of a pin... not EIGHTEEN as I'm sure you're ready to concede.

I heartily…

I have also overtly expressed parental guidance on the odd occasion, mostly involving the placing of children in life threatening situations.

You'll love my new book, 'Eat Your Greens Right Now, Young Man,
or Daddy Shall Release the Crocodile'.

Just let me know when y'all get tired of the argument ...

I dropped off a while ago :)

oo, oo, Page 9!

Seconded.

I have also overtly expressed parental guidance on the odd occasion, mostly involving the placing of children in life threatening situations.

Or on the sidelines at football.

Just let me know when y'all get tired of the argument ...

oo, oo, Page 9!

she said Canada was a very racist country under the surface, but in NZ it was kosher to be racist and out.

Except if you followed hockey forums at all you'd know it's pretty kosher to be racist and out in Canada as well. In fact its gets nicely blended…

Can I call a bit of a 'NO WAI' on that? (Also known as 'bullshit'.) I think reactions to that particular situation would vary widely depending on personality, rather than some nebulous idea of national behavioural characteristics

Yeah, as a woman who is not a parent, who nearly got punched…

The sporting examples you give are unrelated to any of this, but I look them up and,the reaction to the spiteful outburst by a Canadian player is was huge public opprobrium for his remarks in Canada, and a milder disapproval in the US.

You also oddly left out the part…

In NZ society, to behave in a manner was considered appropriate, I would have pretended not to see the driver or notice he had nearly hit the kid when he swerved towards him, and I would have not made eye contact with the distraught Mum

Can I call a bit…

I attended a Canada Day event in central London a few years ago, in the company of several of Saskatchewan's finest. It was a big…

Charlie Sheen

Kyle, Charlie Sheen is an American actor. Gio, Patrick Kane is an American athlete.

Both of you are off on a tangent about men who work in lucrative businesses.

I remarked that in Canada the reaction to that by other guests to a loud bully would be shock,…

He commits aggravated assault on an opponent and doesn't so much as lose his place in the national team. The fact that Steve Moore wasn't a woman or a child doesn't seem that much of an extenuating circumstance to me.

Nah, me neither. Surely any muscled pro athlete must be…

I am pretty sure if a public figure from any walk of like hit a woman or killed a child their career would be over but I may be mistaken.

Sadly not so. Charlie Sheen was given a two year suspended sentence in the 1990s for physically assaulting a girlfriend.…

Are you sure she was Canadian? I cannot believe the entire nation of Canada is that judgeypants. She wouldn't survive 5 minutes where I work. There are ways and ways of doing things, and that ain't one of the most effective.

Yeah, Tracey is very Canadian – but I totally…

I am sure when NZers go to Canada they are frequently shocked and offended by facets of my culture that are completely different from their own.

When I think of Canada, the first word that springs to mind is 'offensive'. Heh.

(I should note that the story about telling off…

As for this guy... Patrick Kane ... he's not Canadian.

Ops. Hehe... yes.

Team Canada Rap Disses Patrick Kane and Team USA

"Can't believe you think you got a chance against the best/when your roster looks weaker than Patrick Kane's chest."

Sean Avery

So what have we learned from the NHL's actions on this, and by the hockey world's reactions?
Two things we've learned from this mess.
The first is the…

...but this struck me as a completely different league of difficult for the public to fogive this ...

brutal killing of his five-month daughter Jeanette.

You'll note I never defended that decision nor claimed that the NZ public would get up in arms about something like that. Just that there…

I took your general point to be that insofar as bullying existed at all in Canada, it was met with near-universal derision.

That wasn't my point... my point was that women in Canada are conscious of trying to appear sweet and will go to much greater lengths to mask their…

Im not sure the parallel between middle aged women at a cocktail party and the hockey viewing public in Canada is quite... comprehensible to me.

I took your general point to be that insofar as bullying existed at all in Canada, it was met with near-universal derision. And I think…

Parisians named one of their airports after the Internet slang for sarcasm

Huh. Wasn't aware that 'De Gaulle' was an internet term for sarcasm. Must try harder to stay down with teh kidz.

he NHL is not the Canadian sporting body!

Um, okay. I thought "national" in NHL meant "canadian" but don't follow sports, here or in Canada. And I'm not sure if anything I did look up about those people you named indicated to me that Canadians liked what they did. I…

Umm....did Paul tell you this? or did someone he went to school with tell you. hehe.

No, I met him in Canada and didn't meet his parents for years. When I did his Dad had a display case full of sporting trophies and photographs, and boxes of clippings from local…

And the reaction from the Canadian sporting body...

Er... the NHL is not the Canadian sporting body! It's a league comprising for the most part US teams. The NHL actually came down on Bertuzzi reasonably hard, but if you followed Canadian hockey forums or media in those days at all…

But here goes anyway:

The guy who…

Well he did get picked up by a US-based team (mine actually!) first!

Sure, the Ducks – say no more! – but in the end even back home his retribution for being a bully and a goon was a place in the Olympic team.

Mmmh... you mean like Todd Bertuzzi?

Well he did get picked up by a US-based team (mine actually!) first!

and the retribution was swift:

You realise that the Stars who were so up in arms about it are based in Dallas right?

See, secretly, you like Jocks!!

And Jocks like Squints*....it's fate!

* Bones slang for "scientists".

I was quite shocked to find (8 years into the relationship) that Paul had in fact been his school's biggest jock, a fact he hid from me

Umm....did Paul tell you this? or did someone he went to school with tell you. hehe.

See, secretly, you like Jocks!!

;-)

I…

bullying in Canada is met with sharp censure and the bully is made to feel pretty crappy and unpopular

Mmmh... you mean like Todd Bertuzzi?

Dyan, as a counter, I give you Sean Avery, born in Ontario.

Kyle, this illustrates my point. The guy said something coarse cruel about his ex-girlfriends and bitchy about his teammates:

"I'm just going to say one thing. I'm really happy to be back in Calgary; I love Canada. I…

Being physically strong is a big advantage in childhood"
-not wrong dyan!
I was hefty _ _ and_ _strong as a kid, and it meant I kept my place in the family pecking order (I'm eldest) until I left home, and was never bullied at school, despite wearing very heavy…

I understood that any skill in essay writing that might be useful in metaphysics and epistemology would be useless in logic.

I dispute that. I only passed Stage 3 logic because of my essay writing :-)

But yes, I can see that an obsession with numbers scores highly in that…

-not wrong dyan!

I was hefty _ _ and_ _strong as a kid, and it meant I kept my place in the family pecking order (I'm eldest) until I left home, and was never bullied at school, despite wearing very heavy…

Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking of when Dyan was saying that there wasn't as much bullying in Canadia!

I didn't say there wasn't much bullying in Canada, but that it was a social convention that it be couched in much, much more subtle forms than saying nasty things…

How the hell did you score 27, dyan? There must have been some dimension you really hammered.

I think it's the numbers thing, mostly. I like numbers, recognise patterns quickly. I like to do things with a specific, precise order of events – mainly to compare progress with former attempts.…

but having to convince ministry officials that a child is particularly "special" should not have to be one of them.

What if they are special? Who else should they be convincing?

It's rather unfortunate that homeschooling is the only alternative to mainstreaming in NZ, but there are kids who can't…

Or do home-schooled kids emerge into the adult world with robust, undamaged egos, and are then able to handle snarky, game-playing adults easily?

Depends on both the kids and parents. I know some who did, some who spectacularly didn't.

I think what bothers me about home-schooling as a concept is:…

Yup, I've got no problem that people have to convince the Ministry about a genuine need to keep kids away from school.

I do. There should be regulations about how education is provided, and standards to be adhered to (including levels of social interaction with other children), but having to…

The most memorable (literary) tale of childhood bullying I can think of is Margaret Atwood's Cat's Eye. I think that story resonates with many, many people.

Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking of when Dyan was saying that there wasn't as much bullying in Canadia!

inadvertently worn mismatched pairs in professional situations

could be part of the test too, prehaps :)

Something that worries me about home-schooling is, what happens if you grow up without having to deal with lots of other kids all the…

Q: How do you spot an extroverted [stereotypical profession/social group]?

A: They stare at _your_ shoes when talking to you.

Not necessarily — I know a teacher who used to be driven nuts by PI students who wouldn't make eye contact with her. What she read as disrespect or evasiveness…

Q: How do you spot an extroverted [stereotypical profession/social group]?

A: They stare at _your_ shoes when talking to you.

When people do this, I tend to check my shoes – I have more than once inadvertently worn mismatched pairs in professional situations.

A: They stare at _your_ shoes when talking to you.

Autism can be diagnosed with a brain scan

Interesting, but extremely preliminary, given the numbers involved and the fact that they only looked at adult men.

I did read it with my special patented Ben Goldacre Bad Science detecting glasses firmly in place.

I have been told by people in…

it stretches the bounds of my practically limitless credulity for you to assert that Canada is a land without such bitchiness.

It's not that Canadian society is without bitchiness or bullying, but it is censured very sharply and very early. Bullies are punished by their peers – there is a…

Just incidentally, unlike some elephant species, mammoths never seem to have had a pygmy variant.... (snort!)

They seem to have here and here.

* Considered poor joke along the "face-to-" lines but cunningly withdrew...

I was astonished, and wished to be back in Canada where that kind of crap would have been strongly discouraged in grade school by disgusted peers who'd have said "grow up" or "stop being such bitches" by the time they were 8 or 10 years old.

Dyan, I am willing…

nous is the word: it's not hard to check. For goodness' sake, there are PRONOUNCING dictionaries on-line.

Enjoy the long-distance coat-

Nice thread – of course I'm now off for a long-distance run...

For which, I'll need me coat.

NOUS

Mammoth may be a contender for WOTY. I shall certainly be using it in small talk from now on.

I like

With you Steve B re small talk-

me, slightly desperate, "And…

But the important one would surely be children, rather than adults. In adults it's a relatively easy diagnosis compared to pre-verbal children. And considering the massively amplified dividends of early intervention, that's where it would pay off the most.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. But it's not…

You must miss the old country Gio.

We don't do small talk in Italy. We go straight to either eatin' or fornicatin'. Sometimes both.

Never an awkward social moment.

There are no small topics, only small people. But you're a bigger person so involve yourself in small talk, and enjoy your life.

That'll learn 'em!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSkIpGnlB3o

Small talk irritates me as it irritates pretty much everyone on earth

Blame these guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0ef6NhY74

...but I like taking to taxi drivers, hair dressers, bus drivers... anyone really.

dang! down girl!
it's gonna be compulsory cameras
in the hair salons now, too!
' – )

[pedant heads back to hill...]

David and I don't do the disco round, because he's partially deaf (he finds it impossible to follow conversations in large crowded rooms) and large crowds just freak me out.

I'm almost with you. If I wasn't single, and loud, crowded, drunken venues didn't offer the opportunity of fraternising with…

I'm pretty good with public speaking and facilitating meetings and am largely OK with people I don't know. The…

Interesting, but extremely preliminary, given the numbers involved and the fact that they only looked at adult men.

If they could reliably get all the males, there's 80% of ASD right there.

But…

I think this is what I was getting at. There are still forms of human interaction that appall me — workplace warfare more than most — but I can avoid those.
I still wouldn't place myself on the autistic spectrum, but my path through life suggests a degree of some…

Interesting, but extremely preliminary, given the numbers involved and the fact that they only looked at adult men.

maybe it was just a Brian scan?

A few people on here will be interested in this. Posted in case you haven't already seen it.

Autism can be diagnosed with a brain scan

Interesting, but extremely preliminary, given the numbers involved and the fact that they only looked at adult men.

Autism can be diagnosed with a brain scan

I suppose it would be impolite for me to suggest here at this stage that perhaps people with ASD just need to exercise more and then they'll be cured?

No more impolite I suspect than suggesting that exercise can cure being a cowardly cat.

I suppose it would be impolite for me to suggest here at this stage that perhaps people with ASD just need to exercise more and then they'll be cured?

Funny you should say that. In Japan, rigorous physical exercise is part of autism therapy (Daily Life Therapy).

I think this is what I was getting at. There are still forms of human interaction that appall me — workplace warfare more than most — but I can avoid those.

Sure — David and I don't do the disco round, because he's partially deaf (he finds it impossible to…

I recognise the D for Disorder is meaningful and adds value to the term. It's an interesting word,…

Although I sometimes get impatient with Aspie advocates who seem to forget that there can be real harm in people not being able to interact well with their environment.

I know what you mean. There is a line between tolerating/celebrating difference, and indulgence. A hard one to find in many…

I sometimes get impatient with Aspie advocates who seem to forget that there can be real harm in people not being able to interact well with their environment.

To me,…

We've got the builders in.

What day did you say the builders were leaving?

"At this time, we are working with the FAA and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to investigate the incident..."

It wouldn't be the airline that pressed charges. I can understand aviation authorities taking very seriously anyone being airside unauthorised, so I imagine they'd arrest first and…

Which is, as I've said before, what I've learned from our kids: an understanding of the way people are different. It has been an incredibly useful insight to me.

'You must have chaos in your soul to give birth to a dancing star.'

F. Nietzsche.

We've got the builders in.

NAILED!

It's really helpful to cultivate a bunch of stock observations. And to perfect the "mmmhmmm" noise.

Yes, but...

I am so tempted to respond, "Do you want details? Do you really care?".

Guess I'm just too honest for this cruel dishonest modern world :)

And just to clear up some…

But why?

People could fall out the open doorway? Also, there might have been someone walking underneath the door, baggage people or something. Don't the doors have explosive bolts that blow them off?

Does seem OTT to me, though. Firing him would be sufficient. This way, more people will hear…

And then sometimes people are so annoying you just have to Lose it.
Slater was charged with criminal mischief and reckless endangerment.

But why? It seems like an entirely reasonable response, don't you think? Had the plane been in flight, then that would have been a little over the top.…

Also, I am now about to put on some Billy Idol and chair-dance

Best euphemism for having a wank that I've heard all day!

Even we chit-chatters have issues with this stuff, though: I hate the whole hairdresser experience so much that I have cut and dyed my own hair for several years.

OMG I'm so glad it's not just me! Unfortunately I haven't learned how to cut my own hair so…

Just back from an interesting Media Bites event (part of the Wintec Spark Festival) , with Steve…

Russell, can we live at your place?

We've got the builders in.

No, really, we have.

visits to the barber are usually a fairly agonising experience

Even we chit-chatters have issues with this stuff, though: I hate the whole hairdresser experience so much that I have cut and dyed my own hair for several years.

I simply have no interest in 'playing the game'. Needless to say, cab rides and visits to the barber are usually a fairly agonising experience.

It's really helpful to cultivate a bunch of stock observations. And to perfect the "mmmhmmm" noise.

I an curious to figure out if there is…

I would like to talk more on this but probably won't be able to until much later.

That TV show you watched last night? Talk to someone else.
The latest Hollywood celebrity shenanigans? Talk to someone else.

You cut me to the quick! ;)

Finding it very interesting…

I feel bound to point out that I'm not exactly standard-issue either.

Yeah, you probably get pissed off quietly.

Holy Shit. I might have to do another analysis in a day or two. But since the last a quick shifty of those who have now done the test suggests we…

20 billion neurons in the human brain…

It's only disorder if it can't find a socially acceptable direction. Which means 'disorder' is a social construct wrt autism.

Totally, and I'm very interested in changing that construct

I'm not going to stand still just so people can see me clearly

Dancing might help with that

you could actually be a master of social situations, and yet still well on the spectrum

Like quite a few aspie women, apparently

I am sensing a slightly apologetic tone in the reporting by those with higher scores. Please don't. Tony Attwood claims we are all on one continuum, but some are clustered nearer one end. And Temple Grandin says we would…

so I'll just make another cuppa tea
sit down and have a Boil…

Nah. I did it out of curiosity and I am not shy (don't ya think?).

You're not shy, but that isn't the only dimension of the test, of course, just a major one. I felt much like your man did about a lot of the questions, could have scored much…

Sooo, do I require an invite to the Great Blend RB or will I gate crash? Have I missed a thread that has mentioned the venue?

Umm, yes, I'm wondering the same thing. Although it feels like I know, or should know, but can't quite remember.

Life is like one…

No and 10 surprises me

I score higher on some tests, but yeah, I'm socially able. Things might be different had I not managed to largely do things My Way.

In retrospect, I could have scored myself higher on pattern recognition ...

Yeah, because I remember Rob well from the Welly launch

Which means, Rob, you must have made quite the impression.

It's fair to say there's a reasonable amount of that night Emma fails to recall.

I'm sure I would have noticed. Reasonably sure, anyway. Well. A bit sure.

Scored 29 on that test. But much of how I am in social situations depends on my mood. Sometimes very exuberant, other times very quiet. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Yeah, because I remember Rob well from the Welly launch, and I don't believe we were behaving like…

I'm not exactly standard-issue either

No, and 10 surprises me

analysed every second question and queried the probability of situations and the accurateness of the way questions were phrased/worded

you get at least 10 bonus points for that

Speaking of ad swipes and tropes...
I wonder if the same ad agency did the
State Insurance and the Wellington promo ads
where they both use giant present boxes?

I wanna know who's the agency that says "Hey, why don't we do an off-Broadway-style thing?" to every freakin' job they…

3. Russell's familiarity and ease with auties (and what to do when they're naughty) is soothing and encouraging.

Heh. Naughty auties.

I feel bound to point out that I'm not exactly standard-issue either. I like working, but I've never been big on workplaces, for example.

does "Here we come / Walking down the street"
mean nothing to you people?!

...er, a holiday in Queensland?

Simian songsters aside...

Speaking of ad swipes and tropes...
I wonder if the same ad agency did the
State Insurance and the Wellington promo ads
where they…

Oh, shit! Did I say that out loud?

I heard, and remind me to lock you outside next time Gorillaz is on and everyone else is dancing at our gatherings 3 4. ;)

.I think we're onto something here.

I actually cant dance either but if everyone is and the…

The one constant though is dancing, which I just can't do.

I think we're onto something here.

If someone says "blah" then the correct / usual response is...

Chuckle and nod.

Touché.

There is something hilariously incongruous about that being a response to quoting the theme song from The Monkees. I love the world.

The Gorillaz line up does look pretty incredible though, don't you think?

Shut up. I think we're going to be out of the country at the time.

Damon Albarn & Jamie Hewltt of course, with;
Mick Jones and Paul Simonon.
De La Soul.
Bobby Womack.
Mos Def.
Shaun Ryder.
etc

If they can't put a show on, who could? Having said that, the latest album hasn't…

But Billy Idol's Dancing With Myself, that IS about wanking, right

Every Billy Idol song is about wanking, I believe.

Scored 29 on that test. But much of how I am in social situations depends on my mood. Sometimes very exuberant, other times very quiet. I don't think I'm alone…

Does the phrase "Here we come / Walking down the street" mean nothing to you people?!

Hey, I'm too busy singing to put anybody down.

I'm kinda interested in how many people on this thread started university at age 16. Was/is that common? I can't help thinking of Doogie Howser M.D.

Not to mention he was probably the world's first blogger.

Goddammit, 3410, I thought we had something special.

Oh, shit! Did I say that out loud?

It's not even true, really. It's just... "World's First Virtual Band"?? Does the phrase "Here we come / Walking down the street" mean nothing to you people?!

They're re-recording it for the next campaign as "When I'm with you, I multi-touch myself".

I'm pretty sure this isn't about self-gratification, but it may contain references of a sexual nature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePIImGMjn_8

Whereas if you stumble upon the Justin Beiber song of the same title? Well, what else would it…

Definitely an energy-type introvert – social things exhaust me and I always reach a point where I just.have.to.leave.now – although I generally enjoy myself up that point as long as I know some people.

I think the thing I appreciate most about my husband is that I can come home…

I think the last time I did the Myers-Brigg test was about the same time Destiny's Church was marshalling for the "Enough is Enough" march to…