Public Address | Cafe | Southerly: Coming Up For Air

Islander

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:51:37 +1200

Ngai Tahu should hang their heads in shame for joining in.

As a Kai Tahu, I totally agree.
Note: there is NO overall tribal consultation for these kind of decisions. They're made by the business hierarchy of TRONT.

Lilith __

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:55:17 +1200

Carter, a prominent Christchurch property developer and investor, is playing his cards close to his chest.

The prescriptive rules in volume two of the CBD plan around building heights, car parking, lane ways and design requirements will be unnecessary, he says.

Other developers agree the detailed rules are probably history.…

3410

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 15:16:28 +1200

I’m wondering why there isn’t already a reality tv show about the rebuild – working title Que CERA, CERA

Because it's an original idea, and therefore not eligible for NZOA funding?

Lilith __

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:20:16 +1200

I’m wondering why there isn’t already a reality tv show about the rebuild – working title Que CERA, CERA

Que?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DReJNvGlG70

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:01:15 +1200

The shitty that shines....
Yep. Holy crap, I don’t want to live in that shiny, characterless place.
I'm wondering why there isn't already a reality tv show about the rebuild – working title Que CERA, CERA

Lilith __

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 12:55:54 +1200

and here’s what is going up (click on the little symbols on the map to see image of projected building

Why, it leads me to think of the TV Series ” This Is Not My Life” and I imagine in more ways like that for you guys down there.

Yep.…

Hebe

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 12:38:08 +1200

It's the "no cars over three years old" rule that is news to me. The very opposite of a sustainable city. Ngai Tahu should hang their heads in shame for joining in. My only favourable for gated subdiviisons is that they keep the people who think like that corralled together.…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 12:13:45 +1200

and here’s what is going up (click on the little symbols on the map to see image of projected building

Why, it leads me to think of the TV Series " This Is Not My Life" and I imagine in more ways like that for you guys down there.
Albany…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 11:50:16 +1200

...a pogrom against any residual traces of
architectural character in Chch
and here's what is going up (click on the little symbols on the map to see image of projected building – took me a while to work that out – the paper had actual photos)

...sigh

Joe Wylie

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:51:29 +1200

It's almost as if CERA's conducting a pogrom against any residual traces of architectural character in Chch.

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:48:00 +1200

Moving homes from the Residential Red Zone back in the news today.... including Dr H!
and someone else taking houses to Invercargill and central Otago...

Chris Waugh

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 00:52:23 +1200

Especially if they are pellet burners- those things only work while the electricity is going-

There's a lot of good to be said for old tech. Sometimes old tech means best tech.

Islander

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 00:42:56 +1200

Be nice to see some figures on the air-pollution effects of wider use of eco-logburners (currently allowed only if replacing an older solid-fuel burner).

Especially if they are pellet burners- those things only work while the electricity is going-

Islander

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 00:40:54 +1200

Be nice to see some figures on the air-pollution effects of wider use of eco-logburners (currently allowed only if replacing an older solid-fuel burner).

Definitely.
Especially if they are only pellet-burners. (They dont work when the power is off.)

Lilith __

Tue, 17 Apr 2012 23:54:33 +1200

But wait, does it have to be a choice between people dying from smog or from cold and damp?? Can’t we do better than that?!

Be nice to see some figures on the air-pollution effects of wider use of eco-logburners (currently allowed only if replacing an older solid-fuel burner).

Although…

Islander

Tue, 17 Apr 2012 22:50:04 +1200

More people die as a result of cold mouldy houses here than from woodsmoke from logburners (
Absolutely!
As someone who lives in a cold mouldy house(only in winter!) – despite 2 log fires – I couldnt agree more...
Would support Ruth to the max-

Sacha

Tue, 17 Apr 2012 22:48:55 +1200

I'm for every person's right not to have planning regulations ignored for short term development convenience. But that's mainly for the precedent it will set for things like disability access standards. I realise home heating and energy pricing is a big issue for Christchurch residents. Glad to hear the smog…

Hebe

Tue, 17 Apr 2012 22:39:17 +1200

Priorities eh. Ruth Dyson wants rebuilt homes exempted from planning regulations to improve Chch's woeful smog.Good on Ruth. I'm for every man and woman's right to have a burner in the south. More people die as a result of cold mouldy houses here than from woodsmoke from logburners (the coal…

nzlemming

Tue, 17 Apr 2012 13:57:19 +1200

ROFLNUI!

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 23:37:04 +1200

Pagani is bac in the mix. #fail
Some mixes seem doomed to fail.

nzlemming

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:36:42 +1200

As far as I know, Mallard is still involved in Labour's strategy/comms. That needs to change.

And I hear Pagani is bac in the mix. #fail

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:39:52 +1200

"Too busy" is currently being invoked In other words: "You're not important enough to bother with." Importancy ranking being decided by National's micro-slice polling.

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:13:27 +1200

new Local Government Minister Carter

another reason for all of us to join the dots with Hurunui/Ecan and what's coming next

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:04:29 +1200

the refusal to engage and deflection is a PR ploy got down to an artform by the Key government and its parts.
"Too busy" is currently being invoked by whoever's fielding new Local Government Minister Carter's calls. Interested parties got no part in the hustle.

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:01:13 +1200

it only works if no one constantly and coherently calls you on it.

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:53:44 +1200

the Ilam candidates' meeting last November, where Brownlee was too 'busy' to show up. That's the part of the National Party schtick that incenses me the most: the refusal to engage and deflection is a PR ploy got down to an artform by the Key government and its parts. Refusal…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:47:40 +1200

As far as I know, Mallard is still involved in Labour's strategy/comms. That needs to change.
Wouldn't surprise me if he farms the work out to his blubbery cycling buddy, who needs the work to pay his legal bills.

Denis O'Rourke at the Ilam candidates' meeting last November, where Brownlee…

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:40:52 +1200

Priorities eh. Ruth Dyson wants rebuilt homes exempted from planning regulations to improve Chch's woeful smog.

Just launched online petition 4 existing use rights 4 rebuilt homes so log burners can be used. Ecan says no. Say yes! #citythatrocks

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:35:30 +1200

I'd question if an 'Act Of God' was a self-inflicted harm in the cae of a churchHeh. Good for business?

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:34:43 +1200

Explains why Labour is a dead duck now.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:33:48 +1200

According to the Herald it's being paid for by the Anglicans business interruption insurance.

Apart from whether their 'business' was interrupted, I'd question if an 'Act Of God' was a self-inflicted harm in the cae of a church?

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:28:00 +1200

As far as I know, Mallard is still involved in Labour's strategy/comms. That needs to change.

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:21:30 +1200

Cardboard Cathedral to go ahead. I love this. Who would have thought of present-day Christchurch Anglicans as innovators?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1204/S00357/interim-cathedral-gets-go-ahead.htm

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:10:49 +1200

I hadn't seen that — Denis has started the hunting season then. Mallards only interesting as collateral damage.

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:10:29 +1200

“All of these problems will not go away, and it is now clear that only if the minister does, will there be any hope of positive action. He must go,” says Mr O’Rourke.

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:08:21 +1200

O'Rourke has been taking the fight to Brownlee

I like his style.

New Zealand First earthquake issues spokesman Denis O'Rourke said Mr Brownlee's claim that there was no crisis was "outrageous", and called for the Government to intervene in the Christchurch situation.

"Mr Brownlee has got his head planted firmly in…

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:04:22 +1200

In practice, O'Rourke has been taking the fight to Brownlee et al in a manner that would shame Mallard if he had a shred of principle left.

I have the feeling that Denis is lining up his ducks. In a way it is a shame he is no longer on…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:48:31 +1200

I think I got that Sacha. In practice, O'Rourke has been taking the fight to Brownlee et al in a manner that would shame Mallard if he had a shred of principle left.

And BTW, whatever happened to poor old Clayton Cosgrove? Devoured by the cat that got Megan Woods's…

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:34:50 +1200

Sacha's assertion that NZ First are more proactive on quake issues than Labour

not necessarily – just seem more likely to actually be effective unless Labour pull their thumbs from their bottoms pronto, rather than another 2 years.

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:22:42 +1200

What crisis? says Brownlee
So he's not in denial, it simply hasn't been brought to his attention.

Also from that first link, more evidence to bear out Sacha's assertion that NZ First are more proactive on quake issues than Labour. Christchurch list MP Denis O'Rourke continues to demonstrate that he…

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:24:57 +1200

What gets me is the kind of institutionalised cynicism that banks on that attitude, embodied by Brownlee, who seems happy to, as Mike Coleman has put it, “absorb the hits”.

What crisis? says Brownlee

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:24:08 +1200

being swatted with a feather seldom prompts much self-examination

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 12:08:27 +1200

Much more erudite

nah, I just used bigger words. :)

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:53:36 +1200

I do feel bad about how the rest of the country has so let down Christchurch's residents.
It seems more like one of those human nature things that only becomes apparent through living in 'interesting times'. Perhaps the ugliest examples of self-absorbed contempt for the misfortune of others have occurred…

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:42:29 +1200

Brokering connections between those scales is complex, but it's part of what political movements have always done. Also increasingly picked up by local government and community NGOs, but as you note those have understandably been overwhelmed by this crisis. Much more erudite; thank you for translating what I meant.

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:34:03 +1200

The gap for advocacy, advice, help seems to me to be in the area between those two large-scale and small-scale

Brokering connections between those scales is complex, but it's part of what political movements have always done. Also increasingly picked up by local government and community NGOs, but as you…

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:16:40 +1200

I do feel bad about how the rest of the country has so let down Christchurch's residents. You shouldn't have to fight this on your own.Don't feel bad! As someone who has been involved with a lot of causes of various types over the years, I don't have any answers…

3410

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:10:35 +1200

I do feel bad about how the rest of the country has so let down Christchurch's residents. You shouldn't have to fight this on your own.

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:46:17 +1200

I do feel bad about how the rest of the country has so let down Christchurch's residents. You shouldn't have to fight this on your own.

Hebe

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:30:05 +1200

The disturbing thing for me about post-disaster Chch is how the apparent ladders were abruptly pulled up and public concern treated as something to be event managed.Yeah, what you said +1. And it's real easy to divide and rule when your constituency are battered, broken or in a day to…

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:54:59 +1200

And what would that be?

Oblivion. There are choices now that should stop fools like Mallard recreating the last few years of sitting on hands, bitching about irrelevancies and treating this like some sort of game for the amusement of those inside the caucus room.

One MP like Dalziell won't…

Sacha

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:50:16 +1200

need to take the fight beyond

Must pick the right targets and allies, yes. For example, you now have a member of the overthrown ECan in parliament. She's part of a party that voted against the CERA enabling bill rather than for it.

Am sure you have some sense locally…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:46:57 +1200

I didn't mean denigrate Chchch's level of community organisation, just to make the observation of what was "apparent" . . .
Understood, sorry if I didn't make it clear. As it happens I've spent rather more of my life in Ak than I have down here, but I'm working on…

3410

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:17:53 +1200

Auckland doesn't exhibit a lot of apparent community organisation either

Now that you mention it, that's quite true. I didn't mean denigrate Chchch's level of community organisation, just to make the observation of what was "apparent", "from an Auckland perspective", under circumstances where one might expect a much higher profile.…

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:09:55 +1200

Make clear to them the consequences of continuing to not do their jobs.

And what would that be? . This Governments incompetence got Nicky Wagner elected. She stands up in Parliament and blathers on about how happy Cantabrians are with their mammoth efforts in Chch. How does anyone argue when…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 08:50:54 +1200

From an Auckland perspective, the apparent community organisation in Chchch is currently nil.
While from this end, Len Brown seems to become more like Bob Parker with every public utterance. Auckland doesn't exhibit a lot of apparent community organisation either, but when it does, as happened with the turnout against…

3410

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 07:44:25 +1200

Not coordinated, not widespread, not fast. I encourage everyone in Christchurch to demand some accountability from the political opposition that we all pay for. Make clear to them the consequences of continuing to not do their jobs. You deserve better, but it's not going to come without a fight.

Indeed.…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 01:10:47 +1200

At least some appear to be taking the legal fight to the insurance companies over the very issue that sparked this thread.
“The insurance industry have a line of QCs lined ready to take this to the Supreme Court. There is hundreds of millions of dollars at stake here.”
Not…

Sacha

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 23:41:53 +1200

some

Sacha

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 23:34:41 +1200

Windfall profits are seen as a 'right' by those too incompetent to make their fortune without a friendly government ensuring a market free from fair regulation.

The only emergency for these cosseted fools would be our government doing its job, and citizens and their representatives making sure that happens. While…

Lilith __

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:57:05 +1200

I grok that the govt wants to protect the "rights" of property investors, but I still can't fathom how the provision of more emergency housing will hurt them. Rental accommodation is full, the remainder of the displaced population has to live somewhere. And they need housing RIGHT NOW, not after…

Joe Wylie

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 22:08:19 +1200

Where's the coordinated opposition to that viewpoint?
At least some appear to be taking the legal fight to the insurance companies over the very issue that sparked this thread.
[[http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6738987/Fictional-repairs-cut-insurance-payout|"The insurance industry have a line of QCs lined ready to take this to the Supreme Court. There is hundreds of…

Sacha

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:47:45 +1200

I can't understand why Brownlee and CERA don't use their extraordinary powers to deal with the rental housing shortage.

Because that would interfere with the unfettered profits of residential property investors. Brownlee has been explicit about their interests being his priority – well, except where that conflicts with those of…

Joe Wylie

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:32:39 +1200

Perhaps the single nastiest thing to have emerged post-quakes is the realisation of the corporatised and dehumanised bureaucratic culture that's become entrenched in NZ. Even if we're no longer prepared to have what's left of our collective intelligence insulted by the squirming ineptitude of Roger Sutton, promoted beyond the level…

Ross Mason

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:21:18 +1200

I have just finished a weekend and a day of watching a few Titanic docos. The last one was about the body recovery and identifying the bodies. I have to say I am having great difficulty in distinguishing between the actions of the White Star Line to their employees and…

Lilith __

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:57:01 +1200

I can't understand why Brownlee and CERA don't use their extraordinary powers to deal with the rental housing shortage. They got the new rugby stadium built in 100 days, which must be very cheering for the families made homeless by the earthquakes who are receiving no official help at all.

Why…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:04 +1200

Favourite comment on Sutton's nattily pinstriped appearance at the $700+ per head Seismics and the City "forum":
wild boar piglets have stripes like this.... but this man is not wild any more, he has become Big Brownlee's house boy.

Hebe

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:40:45 +1200

Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority chief executive Roger Sutton said he was not aware of issue.I do not believe that; unless he has been silo'd.

Anyone who owns property in Wellington should read Janine Starks' column "When a City Erupts" in today's Press, the "Good Living" section, re the wider insurance…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:30:04 +1200

Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority chief executive Roger Sutton said he was not aware of issue.
'Rainman Roger', idiot-savant.

Gee

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:49:02 +1200

Round Two of 'Rebuild' >> 'Repair' in the Red Zone begins

Tamsin6

Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:40:47 +1300

On the subject of Lake Ellesmere, was perturbed to read this today:

Pollution of Ellesmere

nzlemming

Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:00:30 +1300

and if not are there businesses that do e-funerals,
by which I mean someone to tidy up one's digital presence

Why, yes, yes there are.

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 24 Dec 2011 10:41:29 +1300

lief / life / file...
There are costs to everything. Right now we don’t know what the cost to immortality would be, because it doesn’t exist. The only way to know is to give it a go.
We are wetware, software and some calcified hardware
will we be able to…

Lilith __

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 15:04:52 +1300

It really does call for swearing this time

I remember when Stuff put up a recording of an RNZ reporter doing a phone interview at the time of the Feb quake. They flagged it as containing offensive language. You know what? The poor lady said shit, twice. Pretty mild, I…

Hebe

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 15:01:15 +1300

It really does call for swearing this time.

Rob Stowell

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:37:24 +1300

Yeah, BUGGER!
5.8 8kms depp, 20kms NE of Lyttelton.
This is going to put a damper on Xmas. I still have shopping to do!

Sacha

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:29:22 +1300

Russell has started a new thread for this topic.

Lucy Stewart

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:26:12 +1300

You said a bunch, Sacha. By the looks of the Geonet map it was centred out under Pegasus Bay. Lots of jiggy aftershocks. Could really do without this.

Christ. Assuming we would have heard if a tsunami *had* happened, but a slightly bigger one out there and Brighton is fucked.…

Lilith __

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:21:40 +1300

Bugger.

You said a bunch, Sacha. By the looks of the Geonet map it was centred out under Pegasus Bay. Lots of jiggy aftershocks. Could really do without this.

Sacha

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:20:34 +1300

Twitter #eqnz feed – for the latest.

Sacha

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:19:20 +1300

Stuff story about latest quakes. Bugger.

Lilith __

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:13:50 +1300

Thank fuck for power and internet. Hoping by some miracle water and sewers will also be OK.

Joe Wylie

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:11:00 +1300

Power, internet, lots of sirens in Sockburn.

Lilith __

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:04:13 +1300

You OK, Chch peeps? Fuck that gave me a fright.

nzlemming

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 13:15:04 +1300

Bugger yez all! I am going to live forever!

Or die in the attempt...

Sacha

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:59:58 +1300

Vampire stories seem to cover this ground..

Stewart

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:58:29 +1300

Quite so, Lucy. I have no opposition to the research into prolonging life and I am happy to concede that my own philosophical position on this will not be shared by many (particularly those with a more acquisitive/materialist bent).
The research into the prolongation of life might just lead humankind…

Lucy Stewart

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:51:02 +1300

Personally, I have no desire whatsoever to live for ever and the idea of it fills me with disgust. Accept that what you’ve got is what you’ve got and it is temporary .

See, I think there's a difference between trying to lengthen life at all costs and trying to…

Stewart

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:29:24 +1300

There's something about accepting the idea of one's eventual demise that imparts a degree of grace, if not wisdom, to many (thinking) people.

Bit it also something that plenty of people will never 'get'.

Personally, I have no desire whatsoever to live for ever and the idea of it fills…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:02:30 +1300

Bravo. Bravo. That's what I have been getting together in my head these past couple of days. It seems to me that the ever present threat of our mortality is what keeps us trying to live our best lives. As in, if time is limited, we had better make the…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:00:34 +1300

If we think there are social equity issues now, just imagine the gap that unequal access to long life would create.

Or would it? There would be so many rich people with lots of time to make more money that there wouldn't be enough to go around and they would…

Stewart

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:57:36 +1300

I feel that there's a lot to be said for the 'intimation of mortality' adding to our enjoyment of actually being alive. If we were all (to all intents & purposes) immortal, would that not cheapen what we experience as life?

dyan campbell

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:51:01 +1300

Lucy said

Current life extension, however, where people linger on and on in very poor health...that's another story. If that's all we manage – a life where you're old, really old, in ways that restrict you from doing all those things you dreamed of, for more than half of it…

Lilith __

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:37:59 +1300

re: The Electric Prunes: full marks to the guy dancing with the autoharp while he sings. Multitasking!

Lilith __

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:41:08 +1300

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa-7Q

Sacha

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:26:46 +1300

I believe they call that the 'speck tackle'...

an inspiration for much spam, I hear

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:16:17 +1300

Star dust!
It is the realisation I am this mere speck of dust in this vast universal expanse that makes my life my one and only opportunity to try and enjoy it and to see others around me having the opportunity to enjoy theirs as well.
I believe they call…

Lucy Stewart

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:47:05 +1300

If we think there are social equity issues now, just imagine the gap that unequal access to long life would create.

Look at the social equity issues we have right now about, say, raising the pension age, because of life expectancy differences.

Sacha

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:44:48 +1300

We think too much.

quite

Sacha

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:44:30 +1300

If we think there are social equity issues now, just imagine the gap that unequal acess to long life would create.

Ross Mason

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:03:21 +1300

Curmudgeonliess is about being a sad bastard each and every day. I do hope I don't fit that.

Lucy hit the nail re the GGGkids!

What annoys the shit out of me is there seems to be this deep ingrained desire to see folk "right". My wife finds it my…

Lucy Stewart

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 03:46:54 +1300

I really can't understand anyone wondering what they would do with 700 years, there is so much more to do than one lifetime can encompass.

I think it's the personal relationships that people are thinking of, mostly. Marriage, for one – can you really promise "til' death do us part"…

David Haywood

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 01:44:15 +1300

Who would WANT to be alive for even 150 years?... Think about the Xmas prezzies. The money you have to put in Xmas cards to all those Gkids, GGkids, GGGkids etc.

Yes, we all know what a reluctant gift-giver you are, Ross. Given that my house is currently being held…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 23 Dec 2011 00:18:30 +1300

Oh yes, I could actually learn to be a cabinet maker, and then learn to surf and then do chemistry properly and then ...

I really can't understand anyone wondering what they would do with 700 years, there is so much more to do than one lifetime can encompass.

Islander

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:36:33 +1300

Yep, the Late great Douglas Adams summing it up...except for the bowl of petunias...love it-

Lilith __

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:08:28 +1300

Think of what you could learn over a much longer lifespan…that’s one of my major regrets, not enough time to spend studying this and practising that-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h02a2HSB58M

Islander

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 20:59:40 +1300

Think of what you could learn over a much longer lifespan...that's one of my major regrets, not enough time to spend studying this and practising that-

Ross Mason

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 20:20:26 +1300

Who would WANT to be alive for even 150 years? Think about it. Your kids will have had kids will have had kids will have had kids etc. Jeez Wayne. How will you remember their names? Think about the Xmas prezzies. The money you have to put in Xmas cards…

nzlemming

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 18:28:49 +1300

Let's remember, with all these terms getting tossed about, that there is more that is unknown than is known. That's why we keep looking.

David Haywood

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:22:38 +1300

obviously abiotic synthesis is not negative entropy

Hang on a minute…

Yes, for the chemical mixture as a whole there will certainly be an increase in entropy during abiotic synthesis – but surely from the local perspective (of the complex molecules being formed) there is a decrease in entropy? Isn’t…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:18:19 +1300

for the universe entropy always increases but for the individual entropy can decrease.

I would take that one step beyond...
The Human race has quite a habit of reversing entropy, we are constantly rearranging stuff into complex structures to do the most amazing things. Of course, once you get them…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:02:47 +1300

There’s a lot about those books that reminds me of discussions here.

No accident I'm a huge SF fan :).

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:01:01 +1300

actuarially speaking

But if you knew your body would function healthily and happily for say 2000 years would you be more risk averse?

Or would you be a teenage hooligan for longer?

B Jones

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:17:20 +1300

I read somewhere, perhaps it was in one of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars books, that if you eliminated aging etc as causes of death, people would probably make it to about 700 on average before some sort of accident got them, actuarially speaking. There's a lot about those books that…

dyan campbell

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 15:54:35 +1300

Bart said:

Apoptosis is about individual cells or tissues not the organisms as a whole, except that apoptosis is part of development to create organ shape etc.

Oh you incorrigible reductionist Bart. Apoptosis is not as simple as first thought.

The cross-talk between apoptosis and autophagy is therefore quite complex,…

Sacha

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:50:40 +1300

People are healthier now, which seems an odd thing to mention but if you have a really serious problem with your health you are less likely to notice or care about a food allergy and less likely to report it.

Great point. Also fits with reported disability rates being roughly…

David Haywood

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:47:04 +1300

I have some useful links and resources and contacts that I will email you in the next week or so when I have time to assemble them and the wifi works again.

Thanks so much, Hebe! I'll look forward to it!

David Haywood

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:44:21 +1300

If you want to look at the history of science it's littered with folks (some of them very very bright) saying something is theoretically possible but practically impossible only to be run over by three different impossible things.

Lord Kelvin (of whom I'm a huge fan, by the way) made…

Jackie Clark

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:41:50 +1300

I've been very lucky with the deaths I have witnessed, by and large, because it's not always beautiful, of course. For the person dying or the people surrounding them, or who have to deal with the fallout. I understand what you're saying – I just don't think it would be…

David Haywood

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:39:25 +1300

Entropy is about physics and on the universe level you can't fight it. But it is trivial to reverse on a local level we do that every day, for the universe entropy always increases but for the individual entropy can decrease.

Snap! Sorry Bart... should have updated my page before…

David Haywood

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:34:40 +1300

Well I hate to get all spiritual and poetic on you all, but I feel in my heart that life is

a steady state and negative entropy

Oh, a thermodynamics question!

But from a thermo point of view life is definitely *not* steady state, right? Since we started off with…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:29:43 +1300

maybe that was just me

It wasn't for me. But I understand your point. For an individual in pain with no hope of recovery ...

Really I'm not suggesting death is an evil thing to be feared today but rather saying that biologically there is no reason why a self…

Ross Mason

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:27:29 +1300

Baby boy(s) born with two heads.

This is on Stuff at the moment.

We have moved to discussing living longer.....it is obvious it has implications for the beginning of life as well.

Has medical life sustaining technology moved on too far…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:22:35 +1300

Really? What about

apoptosis

telomeres

entropy

inflammation

Apoptosis is about individual cells or tissues not the organisms as a whole, except that apoptosis is part of development to create organ shape etc.

Telomeres are more interesting but there is an increasing understanding of how they work and why in some…

Hebe

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:17:47 +1300

I'm hoping that with a name like 'Hebe' the phenomenum of nominative determinism might have kicked in, and that you will be an expert botanistI wish; "Hebe" comes from my snit when the rest of the family would not call the latest kitten Hebe so I used it for a…

JacksonP

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:10:53 +1300

Or maybe that was just me.

Nope. It is, IMhO, one of the things that sets us apart from other species. I'm sure there are arguments to counter the notion that grief is not a science, but if there are, I'd just as soon not know them.

Jackie Clark

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:59:42 +1300

Actually, death can be a very beautiful thing, and the bearing witness to it can be liberating, euphoric even. When someone has been in pain, or when their body is tired of the struggle needed to keep all their organs going, there is a tangible lightness of being when they…

dyan campbell

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:53:13 +1300

In order to define death, we first have to define life.
I’ll get back to you on that one.

Well I hate to get all spiritual and poetic on you all, but I feel in my heart that life is

a steady state and negative entropy

JacksonP

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:46:37 +1300

In order to define death, we first have to define life.

I'll get back to you on that one.

3410

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:46:34 +1300

I have no idea what cultural changes would ensue if we were functionally non-dying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbGVIdA3dx0

dyan campbell

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:43:35 +1300

Death is a necessary, and unavoidable, part of life. N’est-ce pas ?

Beautifully put, Jackie!

dyan campbell

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:41:15 +1300

I really don’t see any solid reason why the “natural” causes of death are certain.

Really? What about

And as Lewis Wolpert and David Suzuki both keep saying, things are much more complex than we think when we first start to learn about them – here’s…

Lilith __

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:24:06 +1300

as usual I am straying very far from David’s thread

Well now that David's sorted his insurance company, and you've fixed mortality, time for a few days off, eh? ;-)

Jackie Clark

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:23:20 +1300

That is the first time I have ever heard anyone posit that death, and decay, are not a biological given. Interesting. I have always believed that all organisms decay and then die. Oranges, human beings – all one and the same as far as that goes. What you are saying…

Lucy Stewart

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:10:57 +1300

There are certainly ecological reasons for have individuals die off.

And because of the way evolution works we have evolved to breed and then there is no species survival advantage to living after breeding. Also note it’s unlikely that there is any species survival selection advantage for dying, bearing in…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:59:53 +1300

just recycling

and if you are constantly reusing and recycling
are you still the same person?

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:51:27 +1300

Testing… one… two…
We are making extraordinary progress understanding our own biology and I really don’t see any solid reason why the “natural” causes of death are certain.
Is this microfauna on?
Apoptosis off?
I’m thinking that our ‘own biology’ means
admitting that we are each and all individual biospheres,…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:45:01 +1300

Death is a necessary, and unavoidable, part of life.

Really why?

If you view a person as a collection of cells and bacteria (mostly bacteria) that combine to make a living person. Then individual cell death is normal. But death of the individual is not necessarily required for any reason.…

Jackie Clark

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:19:33 +1300

we will reach a point where we can deal with pretty much every cause of death Bart, I think this needs some further explanation. I'm not one for keeping us all alive for perpetuity. Death is a necessary, and unavoidable, part of life. N'est-ce pas ?

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:10:14 +1300

by keeping people alive longer are we not also keeping diseases alive longer?

No idea. But my optimistic feeling is we will reach a point where we can deal with pretty much every cause of death, except accidental. When that will happen I don't know. We are making extraordinary progress…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:05:45 +1300

I’d love to discuss this subject with you Bart

Dude you have an espresso machine and a table tennis table and you're walking distance away ...

JacksonP

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:42:23 +1300

in any meal meat should be less than 25%.

Yeah, right! Is that even... legal in Newzilland?

One day I'd love to discuss this subject with you Bart. It has become a bit of a pet topic of mine.
I'm one of them.
+1

Steve Barnes

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:39:29 +1300

Yes there are more folks with allergies but it’s a very difficult thing to untangle from other data particularly in the western world. More people are alive who wouldn’t be, we are very good at keeping people alive who would normally have died as a baby,

At last, a rare…

Ross Mason

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:38:40 +1300

Extras for the oat milk:

Some good old dock leaf, a Bay leaf or two.

Oat is ready.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:07:11 +1300

If you'll all excuse me I'm gonna rant about food and allergies, feel free to skip ahead to an interesting post :).

So the place I work has a reasonable number of folks who work on food and flavour and nutrition so we get regular seminars and bearing in mind…

Stephen Judd

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:04:36 +1300

We are now complete converts to oat milk

Not as good as ow milk or eep milk, in my opinion.

All the best for a root-growing, permacultural and stable 2012.

David Haywood

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:54:38 +1300

Short rotation coppice tree species selection for woody biomass production in New Zealand

Many thanks, Fooman. Other priorities have meant that I haven't given the topic of coppicing the attention it deserves. In fact, I know so little about trees, etc. that I wasn't even sure if results from (for…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:43:23 +1300

it seems a little…reductive

oh Lucy! That was terrible. Also very geeky.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:40:52 +1300

cider is a reasonable substitute

Ginger beer is good too

nzlemming

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:33:33 +1300

Got a chisel? I'd like to write that down.

Fooman

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:32:52 +1300

I’m a huge fan of coppicing, but only really familiar with how it’s done in the UK. Other than planning a row of Sweet Chestnut, I am rather vague as to suitable species in NZ (although I have noted that eucalypts are popular for coppicing here). I’d heard of the…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:30:42 +1300

Wriggledintiggledinn Cider...
Look how long it took to get Cider
Luckily, David and family are close to a good apple source
The folk who run the aforementioned Dunsandel Store
also run Camla Farm which specialises in apples
organic apple juice and cider!

Sacha

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:26:40 +1300

bravo

JacksonP

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:20:42 +1300

David and family, sincerely hope your plans come into fruition and you find some peace in your new location. All the best.

JacksonP.

JacksonP

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:19:28 +1300

(lend me your ears...)

'What you got in that sack?'

'Ears'

Private roamin', aye?

Juli, don't go!

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 08:55:03 +1300

I must say I’m surprised that there’s no NZ-made oat milk available for sale (the only stuff stocked in our supermarket is from Australia).

Look how long it took to get Cider, and NZ made is crap. We got apples for Australia in this country, we got shit Cider finally.…

Hilary Stace

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 08:52:18 +1300

David, I really do hope things start to improve for you and your family from now on. As a non-Christchurch resident there are a few things that have helped my understanding of the impact of the earthquakes, and which I will never forget. These include that immediate report you wrote…

David Haywood

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 08:45:33 +1300

Hebe wrote:

May I suggest coppicing of trees (for local info google “Brandenburg coppice”) as I assume you will be allowed a logburner.

A ha! As the lovely Ian Dalziel will confirm, there is already an area on our site plan marked 'coppice'.

I'm a huge fan of coppicing, but…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 08:12:15 +1300

Weasel scream for icecream...
Hmmm, how about stoat milk?
though it may be an ermine field!
there's no reason to ferret...

Love that 'oat cuisine idea
Sounds like porridge book
waiting to happen...

and as a fungi I hear ergot
gives an oaty fun high...

being a cereal punster
I'm…

nzlemming

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 07:43:51 +1300

The biggest bugger I've found with going wheat-free is bread. I love bread. To my wife's healthy disgust, I especially love junky, white, processed-to-buggery bread, toast-sliced, with real butter and half a jar of peanut butter slathered on, or fried bacon and the melted butter it was cooked in, with…

Lucy Stewart

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 06:02:58 +1300

sure do eat a lot of oats these days, and corn. polenta, FTW.

One of the things that's readily available in supermarkets over here, but I think is mostly stuck in organic stores in NZ, is buckwheat groats – they make a great couscous-like side dish, or a nice porridge,…

Lilith __

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:30:30 +1300

All I know is, tastes good, feels good ( and has kept all my lovely mother’s side of the family alive into their nineties-)

see, food-blogging already :-)

Lilith __

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:27:01 +1300

badoom-tish

:-)
Have you seen this?

Sacha

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:15:09 +1300

oat cuisine

badoom-tish

Islander

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:11:24 +1300

All I know is, tastes good, feels good ( and has kept all my lovely mother's side of the family alive into their nineties-)

Lilith __

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 22:04:25 +1300

Steady on, Ross, this is oat cuisine!

Islander, wow, thank you, will try this as I'm sure it's tremendously good for you.

Islander

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:44:54 +1300

O you – bugger-

Islander

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:34:40 +1300

Ok Lilith- here are the totally secret oatmilk recipes we teach the wee ones and the older ones and just about bloody well every ones-

There are 2:

1 CUP finely ground oatmeal
4/5 cups water
seasalt to taste and a little safflower or/sunflower/canola oil- leave overnight
mix, drain through…

Hebe

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:25:15 +1300

Bloody well done David Haywood and family! I have of late become very fond of that area near the lake. A nearby shelter belt too; excellent. May I suggest coppicing of trees (for local info google "Brandenburg coppice") as I assume you will be allowed a logburner. I'd love to…

Ross Mason

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:24:09 +1300

You find one lactating goat.

Milk it.

Kick the bee gee out of it.

Oat Milk.

Lilith __

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:55:45 +1300

oat milk! I make my own

Islander – how on earth do you do that? If you feel like sharing.

Hebe

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:46:46 +1300

Srsly: bagpipes are war and grief instruments Are they what! Maori and Scots (and Irish) have a lot in common in both those departments.

Islander

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:33:47 +1300

O yes!
But, um, subtlely... you've never been crept up on by an accordian?

(Srsly: bagpipes are war and grief instruments – their incorporation into dance music – let alone popular music – is a very late happening.) (And kind of strange even to my recent ear-)

Joe Wylie

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:28:43 +1300

i intensely dislike the bagpipes.

Well mate, you cant help that!
I love ’em (but I also love clarinets, guitars, and accordians, not to mention gongs, drums and flutes-)
So it's not about striking fear into the hearts of your enemies.

Islander

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:23:24 +1300

n a strange irony, i intensely dislike the bagpipes.

Well mate, you cant help that!
I love 'em (but I also love clarinets, guitars, and accordians, not to mention gongs, drums and flutes-)

and oat milk! I make my own- it is sooo satisfying-

Che Tibby

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:10:36 +1300

porridge and muesli, non-stop, year-round. and that's oats with oat milk on it.

in a strange irony, i intensely dislike the bagpipes.

Islander

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 20:00:18 +1300

O, oats! Sustenance eh?
It must be the Scots side but I love oat cakes and porridge…they reckoned, those Orkney ancestors of mine,quite a while ago, that as long as you had oats, and ransomes (a wild form of garlic) kale, and crowdie (a form of cottage cheese) and butter,…

Che Tibby

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 19:37:14 +1300

yeeeeah... it was the explosive diarrhea and intense abdominal cramping that was a little inconvenient.

the point i was getting at is that the kiwi wheat/dairy staples are easy enough to avoid, but maintaining it in the long term takes a fairly profound menu shift – hence the recipes (i've…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 13:35:13 +1300

As above, decked out for the Avonside red zone rally.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 13:25:28 +1300

Flax n flex…
This is just along the Avon river
from David’s place…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:08:33 +1300

Glad you are able to move the house and family David. Glad you came up for air. Can't wait to see the progress photos. How exciting it will all feel. Well for me anyway.Plus you really must document it all. It is needed for anyone else of similar mind. I've…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:43:05 +1300

Breakdown town...*
A fart joke on a higher plane.
Though I'm guessing they don't serve
beans on long haul plane trips...
(While balloonists may benefit from them)

*Can't imagine a world without s.p.u.d.s
:- )

ChrisW

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 06:37:26 +1300

it seems a little...reductive
Nicely done! A fart joke on a higher plane.

Lucy Stewart

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 01:38:26 +1300

i recently discovered a minor allergy to wheat and series of other things. short story: if it makes you fart, it was a problem.

Enough of a problem to give it up altogether, though? There are a lot of foods which are always going to give your intestinal methanogens a…

Tamsin6

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 23:44:36 +1300

Oddly enough, David wrote a tremendous post called The End of Lake Ellesmere? here five years ago

Serendipitous? Good to hear that finally things are falling into place for you and your family David – the food allergies and toddler related sleep deprivation can be your prime concern, without having…

Islander

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:48:07 +1300

Beans make almost everybody fart Che – even when served with corn & fish-

and food like lamb (or any abbattoir-killed meat) is right out of the menu for a lot of us.

Che Tibby

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:41:26 +1300

+1.

i recently discovered a minor allergy to wheat and series of other things. short story: if it makes you fart, it was a problem.

so i've switched from a wheat-centric diet to a rice/potato-centric diet for starches. means i have to cook a lot of delicious, delicious curries and…

Tim Michie

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:13:46 +1300

More of this occupy movement I say.

Others above have spoke me mind much better than I can right now.

Still hoha with your insurance company and now have others to the list.

martinb

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:45:04 +1300

Look David, if you’ve had writers block you don’t have to hide from us behind these kinds of stories- just come right out and say it! We won’t judge you.

Even though- does the invention of wild, wild, extraordinary excuses for not having completed any writing count as creative output…

Paul Williams

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:23:13 +1300

David, your post is remarkable and like Che, I've gained a little perspective on my minor challenges. I can entirely relate to the challenges of kids with allergies. My 6 yr old had a similar combination of allergies and slept badly as a result. Fortunately, she grew out of most…

Russell Brown

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:34:33 +1300

Just don’t take the family swimming in Lake Ellesmere, once you get there; if I recall my geology report on it correctly, Canadian geese have not done its nutrient levels any favours.

Oddly enough, David wrote a tremendous post called The End of Lake Ellesmere? here five years ago.

Ross Mason

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:23:31 +1300

Nah. Just make sure Polly and Bob play in and eat good Dunsandle dirt!!!!

Russell Brown

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:08:46 +1300

Allergies. The old-fashioned diet of Canterbury lamb, Oamaru potatoes and 3 vegetables supplemented by frequent generous helpings of flounder may be worth trying.

Well, *I'll* try it!

Graeme Haywood

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:35:37 +1300

Allergies. The old-fashioned diet of Canterbury lamb, Oamaru potatoes and 3 vegetables supplemented by frequent generous helpings of flounder may be worth trying.

Gee

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 05:33:41 +1300

I'm SO pleased to hear that you're all finally able to look forward to being settled for the first time since September 4 2009. Best wishes for the upcoming dismantling and so forth, and for having more sleep and a more settled Polly. And Merry Christmas/Happy New Year to you…

David Haywood

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:02:43 +1300

I'm sure you get all sorts of unsolicited advice but my nephew, who's about five now, had all the same allergies – thankfully he's grown out of most of them. My sister developed some excellent (evidence based!) recipes and strategies to keep him, and non-allergic siblings, fed and happy. I…

David Haywood

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:01:45 +1300

It seems to me that a huge amount of disruption is being caused by a somewhat arbitrary Red Zone assessment – who really knows what's going to happen next underground? Did you ever consider doing a Joe Bennett or do you agree that it's too unsafe to stay?

Thanks for…

David Haywood

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:55:20 +1300

Many thanks for all the very kind comments on this thread! It's so nice to know that people are thinking of us.

It's a super-generous suggestion, but I can assure everyone that there's no need to have a whip-round for us — however if you do feel the Christmassy urge…

Rob Stowell

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:53:26 +1300

Great news on the section- but hell, what a year. Hope you have somewhere to relax over Christmas. It's a shame the babyhoods are so fraught. Toddlers are cool, though :)

Che Tibby

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:51:18 +1300

holy schmolyeons...

"it has to be acknowledged that many, many people have had a much tougher time than us."

ur freaking kidding right?

your post suggested a dozen or so reasons why i need remain zen about my few petty troubles. always refreshing to have the perspective renewed.

congrats on…